Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => Custom Skins => Topic started by: Tilt on July 15, 2005, 03:04:25 PM

Title: New la5FN skin 3GIAD
Post by: Tilt on July 15, 2005, 03:04:25 PM
Sorry but this is in error IMO............

The green over light green upper camo was used only (on La5's)during the last months of 42 . (Using older AII laquers)

In fact this scheme was only used on La5's and with the introduction of the la5F schemes returned to the olive green and black colourings. (AMT 6 & AMT 4)

Which were further retained albeit with a different pattern on the early La5FN


Further 3 GIAD was not formed from 210 IAD until 21 March 43 one of its regiments 160IAP could have used its la5s (various) at orel and so it is possible that an la5 white 17 was part of 3 GIAD however if it was in those colours it w as not an la5FN..............not even an la5F.

It is equally possible that "white 17" la5Fn existed in std mid 43 colours of  green and black and or more likely later olive and grey (AMT 12 & AMT 11)


Sources re camo

Soviet Airforce fighter colours 1941-1945 Pilawskii

Sources re divisional assignments

Stalins eagles Seidl

On another note it would be more accurate to refer to fighter regiments and fighter divisions (similar tpo USAAF used in game). Regiments were often moved from division to division.

eg if white 17 was a member of  160IAP whilst it was part of 3GIAD then following the convention AH adopts for USAAF ac the description would be

3GIAD/160IAP

equally the skin Yellow 01  (Popkovs famous "washed" skin with yellow number and twin striped recog marks) would be

11GIAD/5GIAP
Title: New la5FN skin 3GIAD
Post by: rogerdee on July 16, 2005, 05:13:41 AM
i did this skin for a squad mate from the informaton and web sites he provided which i then provided to hiteck when the skin was sent for approvial,I know nothing about russian skins airforece or the way they were orginasied,very time i try to find somethnig i end up with 4 or 5 varations of the same aircraft,er i was working on a la7 and have found it could have had 4 camo schemes  and 3 different colors in the time frame of 9 months.
 If the skin is wrong then it is my fault,but you seem t be the only one who noticed
Title: New la5FN skin 3GIAD
Post by: Skuzzy on July 16, 2005, 08:22:59 AM
It can always be corrected and re-submitted for an update.
Title: New la5FN skin 3GIAD
Post by: Tilt on July 16, 2005, 01:38:52 PM
(http://www.tilt.clara.net/pics/gbLa5FN.jpg)

The green used here is darker with a slight olive hint compared to the green used on the green on light green camo.

It is not as dark as the Olive used with grey later on.

Infact this (as shown above) is a return to even earlier camo colours of 40 to early 42.

In practice  I would reccommend that the green is "dirtied up " a bit as these are the colours as they would appear out of the paint pot so to speak.

There may well be additional tail stripes/bars (usually in white) to denote the air regiment.

The exhaust plate is left as bare metal (mild steel sheet)which will show heat discolouration and even rust (at its outer edges) in time.

Later divisional markings were used (eg 303IAD's lightening insignia)

Nose cowl colours were more prominent in 44

However it was very usual for mottos or slogans to be written under the pilots canopy from 42 onwards.

The green on green colours presently used are a very accurate rendition of those that may be used on a 42 La5.

We currently have no green/black La5FN's and these would be very  appropriate to a Kursk Orel scenario if ever run in the future.
Title: New la5FN skin 3GIAD
Post by: rogerdee on July 17, 2005, 03:26:18 PM
is this what you mean tilt,is this any better?
(http://[img]http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/610_1121631886_a5.jpg)[/IMG]

any other suggestions?
Title: New la5FN skin 3GIAD
Post by: SkyChimp on July 17, 2005, 05:20:09 PM
Yea the paint chips 'Rust' and the black is sposed to be dark green.
Title: New la5FN skin 3GIAD
Post by: SELECTOR on July 17, 2005, 05:46:16 PM
there was a point during the war, when the russians were short on aviation paint, they used the paint destined for the tractors... mainly green and black...these paints were also gloss,,
Title: New la5FN skin 3GIAD
Post by: Viper17 on July 19, 2005, 12:41:29 AM
Looks like a can of Mountian Dew.:D
Title: New la5FN skin 3GIAD
Post by: OOZ662 on July 19, 2005, 05:04:55 AM
[hijack]

*Mountain Doo

[/hijack]
Title: New la5FN skin 3GIAD
Post by: Tilt on July 19, 2005, 11:56:02 AM
Selector is right but the green tractor paint was used on Yak 7's.

Rogerdee you green still looks a bit bright but it could just be down to my non colour matched screen.

I think the green you have used is very similar to  AII green used early war. for a colour reference thats

Pantone 383

however AII grew darker with age and so became closer to

Pantone 377

The green more applicable would be AMT 4 green for a colour reference  thats


Pantone 377 (again)

However we would expect this green to darken still further with use and weathering.

pantone colour reference chart (http://www.weprintcolor.com/pantone_RGB_convert.htm)

Pantone 377 is a pretty safe bet.

Edit

Some other stuff

Your choice of the Black Bordered star definately puts this aircraft in the early 43 period. Infact I have never seen a picture of an La5FN whout either a white or yellow bordered star. However it is possible that the very first batches of la5FN's did have the black bordered star.

Squadron/regiment codings.

You show white nose and tail fin. Many emblems were shared across regiments i have found white nose and tail as you show for

159IAP (44, 216 & 229IAD)
254IAP (14, 36 & 269IAD)

They could have been used by a regiment of 3GIAD I have no data on any regiment codings for 3GIAD
Title: New la5FN skin 3GIAD
Post by: rogerdee on July 20, 2005, 06:22:05 AM
ok i adjusted the green to the tone u suggested i hope this looks better any other suggestons about the la5?
(http://[img]http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/610_1121858420_la5.jpg)[/IMG]
Title: New la5FN skin 3GIAD
Post by: Tilt on July 20, 2005, 10:08:36 AM
The cowl band does not extend over the super charger inlet duct on top of the nose.

The exhaust out let flap was painted in the default art work on La5fN's although it seems clear that this degraded due to heat with time.......your seems to be fresh off the production line but i would leave the decision of this to the artist.........

You might want to check the original artwork sent to you by your collegue..........

The La rudder extends forward of the vertical hinge line at the top thus white rudders had a small forward slash at the top....

(http://www.tilt.clara.net/pics/T13.gif)
Title: New la5FN skin 3GIAD
Post by: rogerdee on July 20, 2005, 03:33:24 PM
the art work given to me showed a straight painted rudder not with the forward angle but i see what u mean
Title: New la5FN skin 3GIAD
Post by: Tilt on October 01, 2005, 01:44:01 PM
Just a request to update the two tone green skin in question to the black/green submitted above by rogerdee.........

:p
Title: New la5FN skin 3GIAD
Post by: rogerdee on October 02, 2005, 07:58:01 AM
ill have to re submit it i thinkk i gottt lost like a few other skins
Title: New la5FN skin 3GIAD
Post by: Deth7 on October 02, 2005, 09:10:05 AM
Lol leave it alone only reason I fly the la-5
Title: New la5FN skin 3GIAD
Post by: kanttori on October 12, 2005, 04:52:44 PM
Rogerdee, does these pictures help you with the green's tone. As you see, this Finnish artist use dark green there where you have black color. I am not sure which is right...

This La-5 was from "Lavansaari" isle's airfield in the Gulf of Finland on summer 1944.

(http://www.llv32.org/karelia/la5_white17.jpg)

(http://www.llv32.org/karelia/la5_white17_photo.jpg)

This is very useful in my and BlauK's becoming "Karelia" (a new Finland vs. Russian) SEA and CT map! :aok
Title: New la5FN skin 3GIAD
Post by: Tilt on May 10, 2006, 04:58:18 AM
I know punting is poor etiquette.....but this issue is still out standing.........

Green over light green is not a historical skin for the La5FN...........

Why fuss over getting stuff right elsewhere then ignore this...........

Anyway there is more data re the alternative black and olive green livery on the La5FN.............

http://vvs.hobbyvista.com/ModelArticles/NewFindings/VVS_new.php


We can be sure now that this colour scheme was used (by one plant) right into 44.

Whilst the pictures refer to La5's and La5F's the fact that the scheme was in use by a factory during the period it also produced La5FN's make it a very viable alternative.


The article also puts to bed the myth of when the "onion" nose cowl was discontinued (it ended with the La5F) with a very nice detail for folk who want to render the cowling hinge and rivit work on the La5FN
Title: New la5FN skin 3GIAD
Post by: rogerdee on May 10, 2006, 04:42:15 PM
i did submit  a revised version but i guess it got lost in the post,like my cheques always do.


i am goin to do some more to it  then resubmit it again
Title: New la5FN skin 3GIAD
Post by: Krusty on May 10, 2006, 06:48:57 PM
If you're resubmitting, I spotted a few questionable areas on that screenshot. Not as in questionable accuracy, but with borders/joints.

(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/858_1147304797_la5new.jpg)
Title: New la5FN skin 3GIAD
Post by: rogerdee on May 11, 2006, 10:26:40 AM
thanks i noticd them too   but it wa late when i did the screen shot  so i just put it up on here   going to play more with it,when i can keep awake
Title: New la5FN skin 3GIAD
Post by: Tilt on May 11, 2006, 01:21:45 PM
Hi Rogerdee, did you check the colour your using for the green..........

It should be Pantone 377 which is an RGB of 112, 147, 2
Title: New la5FN skin 3GIAD
Post by: Hazzer on May 11, 2006, 01:47:02 PM
I had a picture of a Lagg 3 in this black & green scheme,and it was tractor paint they used.Gloss like selector said,they also covered them in a wax coating to make them more slippy... Those russians sooooooo resourceful...Goodluck with it rogerdee..would love a Green yak9u,if they did one.:aok
Title: New la5FN skin 3GIAD
Post by: rogerdee on May 11, 2006, 02:47:41 PM
yep  i am using the colour  that is correct,this skin  has  a lot of problems lots of streatching and mirroring.

is this better?
Title: New la5FN skin 3GIAD
Post by: Tilt on May 11, 2006, 04:32:40 PM
Looking good:aok

Obviously you will be able to see any little iregularities better than I can.
Title: New la5FN skin 3GIAD
Post by: Tilt on June 07, 2006, 08:09:59 AM
Does it need a patch to delete  an incorrect skin or can it be done any time?
Title: New la5FN skin 3GIAD
Post by: rogerdee on June 07, 2006, 04:44:43 PM
i guess it goes in the line  like everything else,just have to wait  and see
Title: New la5FN skin 3GIAD
Post by: rogerdee on June 11, 2006, 02:39:43 PM
its been sent in and  i used  th colours  that you gave me,i hope its  ok now