Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Custom Skins => Topic started by: Tilt on July 15, 2005, 03:04:25 PM
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Sorry but this is in error IMO............
The green over light green upper camo was used only (on La5's)during the last months of 42 . (Using older AII laquers)
In fact this scheme was only used on La5's and with the introduction of the la5F schemes returned to the olive green and black colourings. (AMT 6 & AMT 4)
Which were further retained albeit with a different pattern on the early La5FN
Further 3 GIAD was not formed from 210 IAD until 21 March 43 one of its regiments 160IAP could have used its la5s (various) at orel and so it is possible that an la5 white 17 was part of 3 GIAD however if it was in those colours it w as not an la5FN..............not even an la5F.
It is equally possible that "white 17" la5Fn existed in std mid 43 colours of green and black and or more likely later olive and grey (AMT 12 & AMT 11)
Sources re camo
Soviet Airforce fighter colours 1941-1945 Pilawskii
Sources re divisional assignments
Stalins eagles Seidl
On another note it would be more accurate to refer to fighter regiments and fighter divisions (similar tpo USAAF used in game). Regiments were often moved from division to division.
eg if white 17 was a member of 160IAP whilst it was part of 3GIAD then following the convention AH adopts for USAAF ac the description would be
3GIAD/160IAP
equally the skin Yellow 01 (Popkovs famous "washed" skin with yellow number and twin striped recog marks) would be
11GIAD/5GIAP
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i did this skin for a squad mate from the informaton and web sites he provided which i then provided to hiteck when the skin was sent for approvial,I know nothing about russian skins airforece or the way they were orginasied,very time i try to find somethnig i end up with 4 or 5 varations of the same aircraft,er i was working on a la7 and have found it could have had 4 camo schemes and 3 different colors in the time frame of 9 months.
If the skin is wrong then it is my fault,but you seem t be the only one who noticed
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It can always be corrected and re-submitted for an update.
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(http://www.tilt.clara.net/pics/gbLa5FN.jpg)
The green used here is darker with a slight olive hint compared to the green used on the green on light green camo.
It is not as dark as the Olive used with grey later on.
Infact this (as shown above) is a return to even earlier camo colours of 40 to early 42.
In practice I would reccommend that the green is "dirtied up " a bit as these are the colours as they would appear out of the paint pot so to speak.
There may well be additional tail stripes/bars (usually in white) to denote the air regiment.
The exhaust plate is left as bare metal (mild steel sheet)which will show heat discolouration and even rust (at its outer edges) in time.
Later divisional markings were used (eg 303IAD's lightening insignia)
Nose cowl colours were more prominent in 44
However it was very usual for mottos or slogans to be written under the pilots canopy from 42 onwards.
The green on green colours presently used are a very accurate rendition of those that may be used on a 42 La5.
We currently have no green/black La5FN's and these would be very appropriate to a Kursk Orel scenario if ever run in the future.
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is this what you mean tilt,is this any better?
(http://[img]http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/610_1121631886_a5.jpg)[/IMG]
any other suggestions?
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Yea the paint chips 'Rust' and the black is sposed to be dark green.
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there was a point during the war, when the russians were short on aviation paint, they used the paint destined for the tractors... mainly green and black...these paints were also gloss,,
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Looks like a can of Mountian Dew.:D
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[hijack]
*Mountain Doo
[/hijack]
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Selector is right but the green tractor paint was used on Yak 7's.
Rogerdee you green still looks a bit bright but it could just be down to my non colour matched screen.
I think the green you have used is very similar to AII green used early war. for a colour reference thats
Pantone 383
however AII grew darker with age and so became closer to
Pantone 377
The green more applicable would be AMT 4 green for a colour reference thats
Pantone 377 (again)
However we would expect this green to darken still further with use and weathering.
pantone colour reference chart (http://www.weprintcolor.com/pantone_RGB_convert.htm)
Pantone 377 is a pretty safe bet.
Edit
Some other stuff
Your choice of the Black Bordered star definately puts this aircraft in the early 43 period. Infact I have never seen a picture of an La5FN whout either a white or yellow bordered star. However it is possible that the very first batches of la5FN's did have the black bordered star.
Squadron/regiment codings.
You show white nose and tail fin. Many emblems were shared across regiments i have found white nose and tail as you show for
159IAP (44, 216 & 229IAD)
254IAP (14, 36 & 269IAD)
They could have been used by a regiment of 3GIAD I have no data on any regiment codings for 3GIAD
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ok i adjusted the green to the tone u suggested i hope this looks better any other suggestons about the la5?
(http://[img]http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/610_1121858420_la5.jpg)[/IMG]
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The cowl band does not extend over the super charger inlet duct on top of the nose.
The exhaust out let flap was painted in the default art work on La5fN's although it seems clear that this degraded due to heat with time.......your seems to be fresh off the production line but i would leave the decision of this to the artist.........
You might want to check the original artwork sent to you by your collegue..........
The La rudder extends forward of the vertical hinge line at the top thus white rudders had a small forward slash at the top....
(http://www.tilt.clara.net/pics/T13.gif)
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the art work given to me showed a straight painted rudder not with the forward angle but i see what u mean
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Just a request to update the two tone green skin in question to the black/green submitted above by rogerdee.........
:p
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ill have to re submit it i thinkk i gottt lost like a few other skins
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Lol leave it alone only reason I fly the la-5
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Rogerdee, does these pictures help you with the green's tone. As you see, this Finnish artist use dark green there where you have black color. I am not sure which is right...
This La-5 was from "Lavansaari" isle's airfield in the Gulf of Finland on summer 1944.
(http://www.llv32.org/karelia/la5_white17.jpg)
(http://www.llv32.org/karelia/la5_white17_photo.jpg)
This is very useful in my and BlauK's becoming "Karelia" (a new Finland vs. Russian) SEA and CT map! :aok
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I know punting is poor etiquette.....but this issue is still out standing.........
Green over light green is not a historical skin for the La5FN...........
Why fuss over getting stuff right elsewhere then ignore this...........
Anyway there is more data re the alternative black and olive green livery on the La5FN.............
http://vvs.hobbyvista.com/ModelArticles/NewFindings/VVS_new.php
We can be sure now that this colour scheme was used (by one plant) right into 44.
Whilst the pictures refer to La5's and La5F's the fact that the scheme was in use by a factory during the period it also produced La5FN's make it a very viable alternative.
The article also puts to bed the myth of when the "onion" nose cowl was discontinued (it ended with the La5F) with a very nice detail for folk who want to render the cowling hinge and rivit work on the La5FN
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i did submit a revised version but i guess it got lost in the post,like my cheques always do.
i am goin to do some more to it then resubmit it again
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If you're resubmitting, I spotted a few questionable areas on that screenshot. Not as in questionable accuracy, but with borders/joints.
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/858_1147304797_la5new.jpg)
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thanks i noticd them too but it wa late when i did the screen shot so i just put it up on here going to play more with it,when i can keep awake
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Hi Rogerdee, did you check the colour your using for the green..........
It should be Pantone 377 which is an RGB of 112, 147, 2
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I had a picture of a Lagg 3 in this black & green scheme,and it was tractor paint they used.Gloss like selector said,they also covered them in a wax coating to make them more slippy... Those russians sooooooo resourceful...Goodluck with it rogerdee..would love a Green yak9u,if they did one.:aok
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yep i am using the colour that is correct,this skin has a lot of problems lots of streatching and mirroring.
is this better?
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Looking good:aok
Obviously you will be able to see any little iregularities better than I can.
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Does it need a patch to delete an incorrect skin or can it be done any time?
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i guess it goes in the line like everything else,just have to wait and see
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its been sent in and i used th colours that you gave me,i hope its ok now