Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Gunslinger on July 15, 2005, 08:59:48 PM
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I take my wife's 2002 Mustang GT to the dealership for oil change and inspection
NOTE: I refuse to work on my wife's vehicles anymore due to marital reasons. I do all my own work on MY jeep
So I wait a freaking HOUR and I pay the fee and take off. I'm hearing a weird noise from the engine and the car is acting funny. I look down at the guage and NO OIL PRESSURE!
These Idiots at AV ford DIDNT REFILL THE OIL AFTER THEY DRAINED IT. I KID YOU NOT, I couldnt make this up.
I only got a block away before I turned around. They added 5 quarts to it right there in the parking lot. I told them I wasn't paying and I'm not taking my car back untill it has been completly inspected.
They gave me a rental and said call you on monday.
What complete morons. I said never again after the last time they screwed up one of my cars. This time I really mean it....never again will they get my business.
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Originally posted by Gunslinger
...I told them I wasn't paying and I'm not taking my car back untill it has been completly inspected.
Once it has been completely inspected, then you'll take the car back?
Originally posted by Gunslinger
... I said never again after the last time they screwed up one of my cars. This time I really mean it....never again will they get my business.
So you've done this before...
They say doing the same thing as last time and expecting different results is a sign of insanity. ;)
(AV Ford is in Mojave?)
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Inspected? If it were mine they would be spending their inspection time inspecting their tool boxs while they were slapping in a new motor.
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My 67 spun a bearing 5 miles after I fired it up after swapping engines.A "friend" broke the distributor pin in my MSD and it pumped no oil.Just squeeled and locked up.That motor has damage.Probebly scored the bearings at least.Make em tear it apart and replace em.Make em replace it.
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Gunny,
Make them replace it. Let me show you what happens to an engine of mine with oil issues.
http://www.carneyaviation.com/enginefire
Wolf
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Originally posted by Holden McGroin
Once it has been completely inspected, then you'll take the car back?
So you've done this before...
They say doing the same thing as last time and expecting different results is a sign of insanity. ;)
(AV Ford is in Mojave?)
AV ford is in Lancaster, CA. The last time was actually an incident with our Explorer. There were fixing one of the Cats under warrenty and farmed out the welding work to a local shop. They rounded the pipe out too much and cracked it causeing a significant exaust leak.
Apperantly they don't have a quality assurance section that actually checks the cars before the customer takes them.
My wife had a coupon for them and it was just convenient for me to take the car in. It's actually a good think I went because my wife would have never noticed the oil pres. guage and would have seized up the engine.
Personally I don't think there's much if anything is wrong with it. THey are pulling the heads and inspecting the cylinder walls/pistons but the car wasn't driven that far or long to cause major damage.
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yeah if you ran for any time at all no oil pressure the engine may have some very big issues. Make them replace it.
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The smart thing, with a replacement - make them sign a paper that "If anything goes wrong with this engine, they are accountable as well."
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Originally posted by Wolfala
The smart thing, with a replacement - make them sign a paper that "If anything goes wrong with this engine, they are accountable as well."
that sounds like a good Idea. I won't be here long enough to hold them accountable when/if something does happen.
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Thats why lawyers make so much money my leather friend. And why Marines get a bad rap for taking someone behind a dumpster and giving someone a rectal rearrangement.
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Originally posted by Wolfala
Thats why lawyers make so much money my leather friend. And why Marines get a bad rap for taking someone behind a dumpster and giving someone a rectal rearrangement.
yea what's worse is that car could blow up next week and We wouldnt see a dime from it for several years.
I've heard small claims court has the advantage were usually due to the dollar amount there's no lawyer on your part and the plantif usually settles because it's cheaper than hiring a lawyer.
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Point is Gunny, the engine is now a safety liability. Don't think for a second otherwise.
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Anything over a 2 mile space and you have bearings that are scored.They will eventualy score the crank too and sooner or later your liable to spin one.Mine cracked a wrist pin in the 67 stang.Make em replace the engine or sooner or later its gonna seize.
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Lets take as an example that happened at my flying club this past May - and BTW, I flew this aircraft the day before it happened.
The excrept is as follows:
Almost immediately after posting this page, I heard from some knowledgeable friends who were able to draw some tentative conclusions from looking at the photos above. Obviously, the #2 journal was not being lubricated. Possible causes include
particle(s) blocking oil hole from inside
lead sludge in oil blocking oil hole from inside
bearing spun around, blocking oil hole from outside
space aliens
Between the crankshaft and the connecting rod, there is a bearing made of soft metal called babbet. Part of its purpose is to trap tiny particles so they don't scratch the crankshaft or connecting rod, sort of like an ink blotter. This bearing isn't supposed to move. If it does, it can block the oil flow from inside the crank. The resulting lack of lubrication will produce a lot of heat almost immediately - enough to melt the babbet metal. When that happens, a gap opens up between the crank and the connecting rod. This is enough to produce a ticking noise like the one I heard before the engine failed. It doesn't take long before there's enough heat and friction to make the connecting rod jam against the crankshaft. In a case like that, something obviously has to give. If that's what happened to this engine, the connecting rod is what quit next, snapping at the middle. It apparently thrashed around inside the engine for a short while before being flung out the side of the crankcase.
The FAA did send an inspector to look at the plane. He tagged the engine, requiring that an FAA inspector had to be present when any inspection or teardown was done. Since that time, the engine has been removed and transported to the shop that overhauled it. Under the Fed's watchful eye, the overhaul mechanic removed some parts which the FAA will have analyzed. I hope I get to see the results of that analysis. Meanwhile, I have spoken with the inspector.
He told me that the FAA isn't drawing any conclusions yet, which is absolutely understandable. But there is evidence that the locating tang on the rod bearing failed, allowing it to spin and cause the kind of damage I just described above.
We now know that the oil hole was not blocked from inside the crank.
The inspector confirmed that this kind of failure is extremely rare in aircraft engines. He also confirmed that a virtually identical failure appears to be responsible for the downing of another Lycoming-powered airplane (different engine) just three days after my problem happened. What are the odds on that?
The other pilot was not so lucky as I was. He and his wife died that day.
(http://www.carneyaviation.com/enginefire/images/19n34.jpg)
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Heh, that reminds me of when I worked at Minit Lube right after high school. They were a local quick lube chain, and ours was one of the busiest shops around. One especially busy day, I was working topside (vacuum, air up the tires, drop the fluids, check the battery, air filter, etc) and was filling the tires on a car when my boss yelled over to me to ask if the Bronco he was standing at was ready. Without hesitation or thought, I said "yeah", and Tony (the guy who always washed his hands in the bowl of our toilet, claiming "it's the same water that comes out of the sink") started it up. Soon after, Tony got excited and was saying the oil pressure wasn't coming up. Yep, I hadn't put oil in it yet. And the reason my boss was standing there asking was because the owner of the Bronco was in a hurry . . . and standing right next to him. The Bronco's owner wasn't happy, and neither was my boss. But, at least he didn't drive it off the premises. ;)
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Well that explains where the SOB handle came from.:rofl :rofl :rofl
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Originally posted by Gunslinger
It's actually a good think I went because my wife would have never noticed the oil pres. guage and would have seized up the engine.
No, that would have been a good thing. That`s exactly what would have happened if I had taken off in it. I wouldn`t have taken the chance on damage. I`d have made damn sure it was blown and locked, then let them replace it.
THey are pulling the heads and inspecting the cylinder walls/pistons but the car wasn't driven that far or long to cause major damage.
That should be a warning sign right there. "They" are inspecting it. To H with that. Have it replaced at their expense.. When they pulled it in the bay they took responsibility for it. They dropped the ball. Let em pay for it.
With no oil it can be damaged by just firing it up.
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Point is yr not dealing with UH-60 engines that are designed to run for 30 mins with no oil. So - tear it out.
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So you won't work on the wife's car due to martial issues. Just exactly what kind of issues could cause you to pay for shoddy/ripoff mechanic shop work?
-SW
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Originally posted by AKS\/\/ulfe
So you won't work on the wife's car due to martial issues. Just exactly what kind of issues could cause you to pay for shoddy/ripoff mechanic shop work?
-SW
I dont work on HER car cause if I broke it I'd never hear the end of it.
She was fuming once when it took me 2 hours to change 5 of the plugs in her explorer and 3 more hours to change the last one. My hands were bloody and mangled from working in a small space (note: I didn't realize till the last 15 minutes of working that I could remove the wheel well cover and have complete access to the plug) and It was quite dificult for me to do.
Since then I don't work on her cars because they are HER cars. Its a little more complicated then that but other married men might be able to agree with me.
thanks for the advice though. You guys have actually convinced me to take this the next step. the engine itself though is under warrenty though for another 60K miles so that might hinder my argument.
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Originally posted by Gunslinger
I dont work on HER car cause if I broke it I'd never hear the end of it.
She was fuming once when it took me 2 hours to change 5 of the plugs in her explorer and 3 more hours to change the last one. My hands were bloody and mangled from working in a small space (note: I didn't realize till the last 15 minutes of working that I could remove the wheel well cover and have complete access to the plug) and It was quite dificult for me to do.
Since then I don't work on her cars because they are HER cars. Its a little more complicated then that but other married men might be able to agree with me.
thanks for the advice though. You guys have actually convinced me to take this the next step. the engine itself though is under warrenty though for another 60K miles so that might hinder my argument.
And the counter argument being 'they have liability insurance as a business. If that engine blows up, and someone gets hurt - its their bellybutton still. So change the engine."
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Take it home and drain the oil. Put the pug back in, pour the oil into a caddy jug and take it for a ride on the freeway. take your cell phone.
When the engine blows, pour the oil back in, call the dealer.
Wallah. new engine installed.
Carry on.
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No, that would have been a good thing. That`s exactly what would have happened if I had taken off in it. I wouldn`t have taken the chance on damage. I`d have made damn sure it was blown and locked, then let them replace it.
This is the most eloquently put thing I can think. That engine is gonna die.Believe me.Ive been there.If ya have to get a lawyer but by ALL means dont let them screw ya.The Stang engines aint what they used to be.I know.I cooked a 289 blown .60 over in 4 to 5 miles w no oil.Your engine has issues my man.
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Originally posted by DrDea
This is the most eloquently put thing I can think. That engine is gonna die.Believe me.Ive been there.If ya have to get a lawyer but by ALL means dont let them screw ya.The Stang engines aint what they used to be.I know.I cooked a 289 blown .60 over in 4 to 5 miles w no oil.Your engine has issues my man.
It was two blocks. You really think it's that bad? Not arguin just wonderin?
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Dude, its a Class A waiting to happen. U know what to do.
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Originally posted by Gunslinger
It was two blocks. You really think it's that bad? Not arguin just wonderin?
As someone who makes his living building engines, I'd call it what it is. JUNK.
FORCE them to replace it NOW. Call the Ford regional customer service rep for your region. You can get the number from a dealer or off the web. They will make the dealer replace it with a new engine. The mere mention of a lawyer will likely get things moving VERY fast.
Accept nothing less than a NEW engine installed IMMEDIATELY with a FULL WARRANTY.
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Gunny,
Contact your closest BAR office and lodge a complaint. They should be good at giving you options and the advise won't cost you a dime.
Edit... Oh, yeah, what they said! ^
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Yea Gun.2 minutes would do it.I seriously suggest you force them to do a new engine or at LEAST offer to guarentee the one you have.Im an engine builder.I know about these things buddy.
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Go to a reliable local auto shop, I suggest it more cause.......it's usually cheaper. Oil change where I work is under $50 and we make sure to check oil before it leaves.
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Originally posted by Gunslinger
I take my wife's 2002 Mustang GT to the dealership for oil change and inspection
Mistake #1
Never use the dealer for anything other than warranty work.
So I wait a freaking HOUR and I pay the fee and take off. I'm hearing a weird noise from the engine and the car is acting funny. I look down at the guage and NO OIL PRESSURE!
These Idiots at AV ford DIDNT REFILL THE OIL AFTER THEY DRAINED IT. I KID YOU NOT, I couldnt make this up.
See Mistake #1
I only got a block away before I turned around. They added 5 quarts to it right there in the parking lot. I told them I wasn't paying and I'm not taking my car back untill it has been completly inspected.
Mistake #2
Make them replace the engine. Accept no substitue. They ruined that engine.
They gave me a rental and said call you on monday
What complete morons. I said never again after the last time they screwed up one of my cars. This time I really mean it....never again will they get my business.
I would lay down my terms politely, but firmly for a new crate engine, or your attorney will be in contact. You have a very strong case in court and they know it. They screwed up.
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Look Gunny, its like this.
I know yr probally thinking this is gonna be more trouble then its worth - and truth is it probally is. But the simple fact is they ****ed up - they didn't follow procedure, and they owe you a new engine. Now, if you feel guilty about that - we need to talk. You don't owe them anything - they owe you a new engine. And if it takes me going down to Edwards AFB to prove it, i'll see ya next week. But listen to the guys who know a few things - don't accept less and be taken for a shmuck.
Wolf
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The best bet would have been to drive it until it failed. Then, they wouldn't have had a choice. ;)
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Originally posted by Sandman
The best bet would have been to drive it until it failed. Then, they wouldn't have had a choice. ;)
I'm actually thinking that right now. Me and my neighbor were discussing last night how long it would have drove until it seized. I don't think I would have made it half way home, that's about 38 miles from the dealership over california highways in 101 degree weather.
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Does the car come to a complete halt when the engine siezes? Or does it depend what gear / drive you are in?
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Guns, look at it like this. Suppose you change the ejection seat in an F-18 but forgot to hook up the arming device to the ejection handle. How much trouble would you be in with the Marines if that plane took flight (even for a few minutes) and your superiors found out?
AV Ford is in the same amount of trouble with you. Brand new engine...nothing less.
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Originally posted by rpm
Guns, look at it like this. Suppose you change the ejection seat in an F-18 but forgot to hook up the arming device to the ejection handle. How much trouble would you be in with the Marines if that plane took flight (even for a few minutes) and your superiors found out?
AV Ford is in the same amount of trouble with you. Brand new engine...nothing less.
yea I get it. I'd be in a world of hurt if that happend.
PS I work for the USAF now.
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Originally posted by lasersailor184
Does the car come to a complete halt when the engine siezes? Or does it depend what gear / drive you are in?
If it's a manual tranny, it's possible for it to lock the rear wheels. If it's an automatic, it will more than likely just coast to a stop.
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Originally posted by Gunslinger
yea I get it. I'd be in a world of hurt if that happend.
PS I work for the USAF now.
D'OH!
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Working as a mechanic previously, I have nine words for you....
NEW MOTOR!
and....
DONT TAKE NO FOR AN ANSWER!!!!!!
Originally posted by Gunslinger
I take my wife's 2002 Mustang GT to the dealership for oil change and inspection
NOTE: I refuse to work on my wife's vehicles anymore due to marital reasons. I do all my own work on MY jeep
So I wait a freaking HOUR and I pay the fee and take off. I'm hearing a weird noise from the engine and the car is acting funny. I look down at the guage and NO OIL PRESSURE!
These Idiots at AV ford DIDNT REFILL THE OIL AFTER THEY DRAINED IT. I KID YOU NOT, I couldnt make this up.
I only got a block away before I turned around. They added 5 quarts to it right there in the parking lot. I told them I wasn't paying and I'm not taking my car back untill it has been completly inspected.
They gave me a rental and said call you on monday.
What complete morons. I said never again after the last time they screwed up one of my cars. This time I really mean it....never again will they get my business.