Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: StSanta on June 19, 2001, 01:27:00 PM
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With WWIIOl being released the way it was, it'd be proper to show how things should be done. Some people seem to know
From a letter all future betatesting aspirants for Target Korea gets
The bad news is that we are running about 60 days behind in our software development cycle. We make no excuses other than to say we don't want to release a product that is not ready, or one that does not meet community expectations as to our publicly stated design goals. We wish to enter an Open Beta with a stable, uniquely entertaining and realistic flight simulation
environment, that exhibits excellent Mac/PC performance being highly playable across the widest range of CPU configurations.
Wow, the antithesis of what Cornered Rats were forced to do.
The good news:
Over the next few weeks, we will be reviewing ALL of the registered applications and aggressively adding large batches of new players to the closed beta team to enhance load testing capabilities.
They stop accepting beta testers friday June 22nd, so ya can do it if ya hurry :).
Good thing some online developers know what they're doing (I count HTC as one)
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I got that email this morning or last night (can't remember)...
Of course, since it's a beta testing phase I think they should release code, so long as it works.
I'm not trying to play the game to have fun, I'm going to try to run the game right into the ground and see what bugs and other problems decide to pop up.
Beta testing isn't "wow dude, this is soo cool".. it's "I wonder what THIS will do" and trying to break the entire game/make it crash...
Anyways :)
-SW
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Santa, I've beta tested alot of products, and everyone says these words, :
..other than to say we don't want to release a product that is not ready, or one that does not meet community expectations as to our publicly stated design goals.
Whether its engineering software, Microsoft stuff or flight sims, ALL the developers say those exact words...its a matter of how many of them follow thru with those words, which is very few indeed, I'd venture to say none, since I can't think of any software recently that was truly ready for the market...
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StSanta,
I got that e-mail too. The first thing I thought of was CRS and I wondered just how reactionary this message was.
Would it have been worded the same if there wasn't such a glaring example of a released-too-soon on-line game looming in the forefront of everyone's thoughts?
Basically, they said what was needed to be said in the current climate. To praise them for it is somewhat misguided since it may be more reactionary than true sentiment. Basically, you're giving someone credit for someone else's hindsight.
AKDejaVu
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Actually, Blizzard is good about delaying releases if the code isn't up to snuff. Diablo II was delayed several times before being released (of course they sold gobs and gobs of copies of Diablo to pay for it.) Oh, and Warcraft III has been in development for years. So some gaming companies do it properly. :)
Oh, btw, no significant piece of software will ever be bug free. It's just near to impossible to have 100,000's of lines of code and not have bugs. The goal is to ship with only minor inconvenience bugs, not major ones. :)
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What is Target Korea? A persistent world Korean war?
Will I get to fly a Sea Fury? Please, pretty please? :)
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Mmmmm Sea Fury....<drool>
Got to see one of these fly at the airshow a couple months back in Georgetown TX. It looked pretty smooth. Got some pics of it too. If ya want I can scan them and email them to ya Dowding. Let me know.
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I had my NDA for it several months ago. Still unsigned, sitting on top of my scanner.
And yes there is a reason :p
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saw this one at friends house whos beta testing both mac and pc version so no NDA here. hehehe jigster, you must rate .... wish they had sent me that nda but I never got one. :( can i have yours :D
it wasnt bout fancy graphics and needing a 1 ghz machine just to get 15fps. fps was steady and very high (over 30) all the time. graphics i saw were ok since i'm more inetersted in game play then eye candy anyway.
needs more basic grahics work like damage hit markings and ground obejects. saw an interview that nuttz and ogre worked on terrain stuff.
waa really smooth with great network code but expected that since sickboy (RW) wrote it. didnt see up close warps and ping rates were sub 100 most of the time.
big thing i noticed was how accurate fm and ammo modeling was and how terrfic f-51 model felt to fly using mixture controls and everything. kept burnin up my engine till i learned to fly and handle throttle properly during fights. hehehehe. they even modelled barrel heatng so if you hold down trigger to long u see the tacer pattern turning into a larger shotgun spreadin from the heat. i think the realism bunch are gonna love this sucker. :D
i have to say it was really a lot of fun even in this early state and i had some great sweating dog fights. even if it was a closed beta it was rock solid with no crashes.
saw a neat poll on their home page http://www.targetware.net/ (http://www.targetware.net/) . anyone see results anywhere?
never see any other developer interested in opinions like this frm customers? u know these guys work for free!!!!
santa, i agree and imo they're doin it right and i when i read their boards i don;t get a feeling that they're lying to anyone because of wwiiol botch-up. they've (vadr) been saying the same thing all along even before then. u sure dont see the ignorant crap u see here a lot of the time. :D
i think since the're goin to have a huge closed beta (1200 people i think they said?) before public open beta, so i bet theres a lot of good players from here and wb that help them get it right! i think they're refreshing i hope they make it.
but i notice the regular inhouse control freaks here always look for the neg side to everything. sure would be nice to hear them say somethin positive bout anyone or anything outside of this place. :D
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StSanta, well if the cashflow stops, you know
where the "proper way" goes ;)
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Hey CheckSix,
You can see the Targetware poll results right from the front page. Look closely at the poll dialog. There's a "View Results" link right under the "vote" button.
BTW, the Targetware folks are all about integrity. This stems from a deep seated desire to create something we've all wanted for years. Necessity being the mother of invention. . blah, blah, blah. The flight models are particularly extraordinary in their depth too.
Vicious aka -vics-
Targetware Staff Artist
http://www.targetware.net (http://www.targetware.net)
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santa, i agree and imo they're doin it right and i when i read their boards i don;t get a feeling that they're lying to anyone because of wwiiol botch-up. they've (vadr) been saying the same thing all along even before then. u sure dont see the ignorant crap u see here a lot of the time.
Ah... and of course the same selective memory and total misinterpretation applies.
A message was sent out that mentioned beta status and reitterated 3 times that they will not be releasing anything too soon. Nobody said they were lying. Just that the message was more reactionary than informative.
If you believe it was pure coincidence that this message is worded in this manner two weeks after WW2OL's botched release... I'll have to question you about the color of the glasses you are wearing.
AKDejaVu
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aahhhh
thanks vicious. couldn't see it on my screen cause the color of the button blended with backgrnd..
wow! only 9% of people want fancy eye candy. i thought i was in a minority. :D
i always thought all the noise bout whos graphics are better were a load of nonsense. its about game play and fun. btw. i really like what sickboy has done so far.
cutnpaste
Targetware Poll Results - Total Votes: 243
If you could suggest one programming priority for the Targetware flight simulation engine, which area would you like Sickware to focus on?
18% Emphasis on entertainment with goal oriented scenarios through forced cooperative team play.
9% Emphasis on high resolution in-game graphics models for planes, terrains and pyrotechnics.
50% Emphasis on software engine physics for historically accurate flight, weapons and ordnance modeling.
23% Emphasis on system performance (ie: high fps) with acceptable graphics on wide range of computers.
a sim by players for players. hehehehe
u guys will be rich. :D
btw.. deja we all know the color of ur glasses. :D sure wish i could talk as fancy and twisty as you. you must spend your whole day on here lookin for ways to be a hero. wonder if your boss knows what u do all day but what i really wonder is why wouldd you bother applyin for a beta to help these guys cept to drag them down with ur normal neg attitude then run back here. shame on u :( hope they turn ya down and give your spot to me me instead. :D hehehehe
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OK checksix.. resort to the personal attacks.
As for the color of my glasses.. you really don't read this forum or the general forum very often... or very well.
Read my posts here on WW2OL... then re-read what you typed.
BTW.. do you have the faintest idea as to why I would have received the same e-mail? I'm beginning to think you are simply a troll.
AKDejaVu
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you win dejavu
your just too smart for the rest of us. :D
at least for me. ;)
u can mark me as another board victory on the side of you desk cause i won't bother you anymore. :D
S!
btw.... i got same clsed beta tester app mail you and santa did and i read it completely differently than you but ur a much brighter lighbulb than me so i guess i could be wrong again. ;)
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We make no excuses other than to say we don't want to release a product that is not ready, or one that does not meet community expectations as to our publicly stated design goals. We wish to enter an Open Beta with a stable, uniquely entertaining and realistic flight simulation
environment, that exhibits excellent Mac/PC performance being highly playable across the widest range of CPU configurations.
I read into this? Like I said.. the timing makes the wording more than just coincidence.
The company may or may not meet expectations, but singing their praises simply because they promise not to screw the pooch as badly as someone else just did is somewhat misguided. Don't you think? What were they supposed to say... "We'll try to release a stable product... but sometimes things are out of our control"?
AKDejaVu
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well i do see ur point and maybe your right but i just took it opposite as bein honest with people with no other motive.
vicious... did you guys say this cause of thw wwiiol mess?
dejavu.... S! maybe the difference between you and me is how we look at the world up front but theres no point in fightin over it anymore. :D
i hope all of these games are a success.
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dejavu.... S! maybe the difference between you and me is how we look at the world up front but theres no point in fightin over it anymore.
It has nothing to do with my view of the world. It has everything to do with my experience and understanding of the gaming industry <especially simming industry>.
i hope all of these games are a success.
So do I. But in the interum.. I hope that at least one of them is a success.
AKDejaVu
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Did they say those things because of WWIIOL?
No, I doubt it.
The original timeline has slipped a little and we’re telling the world what’s happening here because we know you want to know about it. After all the politicking of other companies it can be hard to believe someone’s just being honest. I can understand that. Besides, there probably isn’t any combination of words we could use that wouldn’t draw scrutiny from someone, somewhere.
The game flies great, I’ve had some of the best fights in my life there. With respect to the flight model it’s ready, and that’s what the new testers will soon discover. There are just some awesome features that should be in there before going open-beta, so you can all see the new paradigm Targetware represents.
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I gotta say the people putting Target Korea together are about the best group of people I have ever met. It was pure pleasure working with that group.
Expect the unexpected!
NUTTZ
Originally posted by Checksix:
saw this one at friends house whos beta testing both mac and pc version so no NDA here. hehehe jigster, you must rate .... wish they had sent me that nda but I never got one. :( can i have yours :D
it wasnt bout fancy graphics and needing a 1 ghz machine just to get 15fps. fps was steady and very high (over 30) all the time. graphics i saw were ok since i'm more inetersted in game play then eye candy anyway.
needs more basic grahics work like damage hit markings and ground obejects. saw an interview that nuttz and ogre worked on terrain stuff.
waa really smooth with great network code but expected that since sickboy (RW) wrote it. didnt see up close warps and ping rates were sub 100 most of the time.
big thing i noticed was how accurate fm and ammo modeling was and how terrfic f-51 model felt to fly using mixture controls and everything. kept burnin up my engine till i learned to fly and handle throttle properly during fights. hehehehe. they even modelled barrel heatng so if you hold down trigger to long u see the tacer pattern turning into a larger shotgun spreadin from the heat. i think the realism bunch are gonna love this sucker. :D
i have to say it was really a lot of fun even in this early state and i had some great sweating dog fights. even if it was a closed beta it was rock solid with no crashes.
saw a neat poll on their home page http://www.targetware.net/ (http://www.targetware.net/) . anyone see results anywhere?
never see any other developer interested in opinions like this frm customers? u know these guys work for free!!!!
santa, i agree and imo they're doin it right and i when i read their boards i don;t get a feeling that they're lying to anyone because of wwiiol botch-up. they've (vadr) been saying the same thing all along even before then. u sure dont see the ignorant crap u see here a lot of the time. :D
i think since the're goin to have a huge closed beta (1200 people i think they said?) before public open beta, so i bet theres a lot of good players from here and wb that help them get it right! i think they're refreshing i hope they make it.
but i notice the regular inhouse control freaks here always look for the neg side to everything. sure would be nice to hear them say somethin positive bout anyone or anything outside of this place. :D