Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Dowding on June 19, 2001, 02:34:00 PM
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Reposted:
"This is the email I received from Tongue
I really am an even mannered person, and I feel I have more than tolerated more than enough of your grating personality. It's one thing to be a critic or a spirited debater, which is what I had hoped all you were, but more and more you just prove to be someone, that needs to try and bring the worst out in people.
It's fine to flame, criticize or say whatever you wish to demean this company, even tell bald faced lies, when you feel the time calls for it. What isn't fine is to make the intention of each and everyone of your posts, to completely upset our community. That's just not healthy to force people to keep being subjected to.
You even call yourself "Grandmaster Troll", well this forum was not made for Trolls.
It's fine to be that type of person for the rest of your life, but our forums are not for this type of person to run rampant in, so I have turned off your ability to post for the time being.
Isn't it too easy to be a Troll anyways, I can never fathom how people find that entertaining, one the oldest "truths" in the world, is that is extremely easy to screw with people, but far harder to get their respect.
If you want this ability given back, then you need to agree to accept reason in your activities on our forums, and become a real member of this community rather than someone that just gets enjoyment, from constantly picking at other people's scabs. There just not your scabs to pick at.
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Zee Tongue
Playnet, Inc.
I responded with this
You just prove to be someone, that needs to try and bring the worst out in people."
- I have said time and time again, if you dont like my posts, you dont have to read them. Simple as that.
"It's fine to flame, criticize or say whatever you wish to demean this company, even tell bald faced lies, when you feel the time calls for it. What isn't fine is to make the intention of each and everyone of your posts, to completely upset our community. That's just not healthy to force people to keep being subjected to."
- Again, if people dont like my posts, nobody is forcing them to read them. My topics give clear indication as to what the post is about. I have never told a bold face lie about the company, even though I have been critical of it.
"You even call yourself "Grandmaster Troll", well this forum was not made for Trolls."
- The "Grandmaster Troll" thing is to poke fun at people who call me a troll. As far as I'm concerned, a troll is something from fantasy worlds that live under bridges.
It's fine to be that type of person for the rest of your life, but our forums are not for this type of person to run rampant in, so I have turned off your ability to post for the time being.
- That is your decision, but rest assured, I will be posting this email up in my defense on the SF forums with my reply.
Isn't it too easy to be a Troll anyways, I can never fathom how people find that entertaining, one the oldest "truths" in the world, is that is extremely easy to screw with people, but far harder to get their respect.
- I have no intention of screwing anybody. Just calling them as I see it. As far as I'm concerned, since I have purchased this game, it is my right to say whatever I feel about it as long it is not a bold faced lie
If you want this ability given back, then you need to agree to accept reason in your activities on our forums, and become a real member of this community rather than someone that just gets enjoyment, from constantly picking at other people's scabs. There just not your scabs to pick at.
- If you are asking me to make lie about your product and praise how great it is all the time. If that is what you mean. then sorry. I cant do that.
Tongue countered with this
That's fine and a fair statement, however due to the fact that 99% of the world is doomed to be followers, much the reason for AOL's success :) ... It's far easier to ask the ONE person to not be such an aggregate, rather than ask the THOUSANDS not to be aggravated.
Makes sense to even you, I'd think.
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Zee Tongue
Playnet, Inc.
So basically, he said because I am way too negative on these boards, I am banned. :P"
Right/wrong? Irrelevant since it is a private forum and not publically owned.
But I find it strange that they ban a person who has never used profanity, bigotry and has always made reasoned, if not always correct, posts about WW2OL - yet they fail to even recognise/comment/address the fact hat people with the handle 'jewkilla' are running around in their game world!
If I remember rightly, this guy called Blair correctly predicted that WW2OL was in a bit of shambles and was inevitably flamed for it.
[ 06-19-2001: Message edited by: Dowding ]
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Not sure of the content of your posts, but if indeed you were simply posting the pitfalls of the game, then clearly Tongue is out of line.
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Obviously, I only posted what was written in the 'Off-Topic' forum of the WW2OL website.
This Blair guy might be lying, of course.
I just thought it was interesting.
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Oh, sorry, thought this was all referring to your posts!
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I kinda see CRS's point and in the same manner HTC's....
Once someone moves to the purely negative damaging mentality... regardless of vocabulary... their presence in the forums needs to be evaluated.
Of course.. how things became so extreme is another topic for debate.
AKDejaVu
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BTW... the thread Dowding is quoting from is located Here (http://www5.playnet.com/bv/wwiiol/dg_message.jsp?forumOID=8809&forum=Off-Topic&msgID=177012&BV_SessionID=@@@@1211582608.0992981179@@@@&BV_EngineID=galleljeekibefbnkcfkfcfkf.0).
I think Katya (played AH?) said it pretty well.
AKDejaVu
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he's just protecting his own ... same as I think we'd all do when placed in the same situation. He's right about 99% of the world are followers, but I believe 90% of them choose to be as it is easier...
Eagler
[ 06-19-2001: Message edited by: Eagler ]
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...And Dowding copied that post here because... uhm... I dont really know :D
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While I agree with most of the points that Blair has made. I also understand why CRS did him in.
Strangely they're not doing anything similar to the large group of rabid like, fanatical fans who are doing just as much, if not MORE damage, by badly flaming every poster that says anything resembling an unkind word or negative commen towards CRS or the WW2O program.
It's an easy thing for someone to ignore a guy like Blair who's constantly crying wolf, while most folks are aware of the problem while standing in the wool remains, and yet another to let a pack of retarded hyenas run rampant and unchecked to chew up and drive off your frustrated customer base. They have valid frustrations to post about. When they ask or complain about somehting .... well, with the replies they do I don't blame many for saying ekk it and walking off for good. CRS has had an abysmal customer support operation going the last week and it's forcing people to find fixes in the web boards which are in complete anarchy right now.
Westy
[ 06-19-2001: Message edited by: Westy MOL ]
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Once someone moves to the purely negative damaging mentality... regardless of vocabulary... their presence in the forums needs to be evaluated.
And that's pretty much what happened, without going into the gory details. Free speech has nothing to do with it; the issue really is accountability. CRS allows quite a bit of negative info to exist on their boards, actually, and addresses negative comments form time to time in a pretty reasonable manner.
The individual in question was and is a crusade of posting inaccurate/outdated negative information in every possible thread, on every board pertaining to the game. He is not new to this - he's been doing it for 6 months. He was the most vocal critic of the game pre-launch.
Cie la vie. If you hate it that much and feel it's your duty to inform consumers of the scourge that is WW2OL, make a web site. Take out an ad. Write a letter to the editor. Stand on the street corner with a placard. That's free speech. Spamming a private BBS over and over is just trolling.
I'd say the same thing about a person doing similar here, or on AGW.
Spitboy -SW-
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Staga - WW2OL seems to be the topic of the moment, in case you hadn't realised. I'm sure not everyone wades through the crap on that board. It was something that caught my eye, that's all.
I personally see it as an odd decision; there has been nothing but silence regarding certain players taking things 'a bit too far' and calling themselves 'jewkilla' - who would you consider to be most offensive, and more importantly, the most damaging to their enterprise?
Spitboy - the question is, was what he posted before release correct? From what I read on the old forum, it wasn't far off the mark. His comments were the only thing even close to an objective opinion on the game - that board was full of sychophantic rubbish topped with wishful thinking.
Once or twice he went over the top, and ended up ranting a little. Most of the time, however, he posted sensibly.
[ 06-19-2001: Message edited by: Dowding ]
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Oh, you're right on the "jewkilla" stuff, dowding. I agree there. I have said my peace on this one to the Rats several times now. They are screwing up royally by not having the tools in place to police their game. They should stop darn near everything on the player services side until they get that straightened out.
I can excuse a lot in a rough release if I see the potential in a game, but this failing boggles my mind, because it would have been relatively easy to combat. A simple naughty word filter on handle and squadron creation would have gone a LONG way for a few hours work.
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Well at least couple persons in AH have a nick which could also be seen quite offensive if you think that way...
Koba:
Iosef Vissarionovich Dzhugashvili who also was responsible for about 7 000 000 people death. Also known as Stalin.
Jihad:
Islamistic radical organization; Man slaughters, Assassins etc...
Now while were at it I propose HTC should ban these guys both from AH's UBB and from game.
Dam this was too easy... :D :p
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Jihad:
Islamistic radical organization; Man slaughters, Assassins etc...
Islamic Definition:
The spiritual struggle against evil. There are four ways to fulfill a jihad: by the heart, the tongue, the hand, and the sword. These refer to the inner, spiritual battle of the heart against vice, passion, and ignorance.
You got the ASSASSIN part right though. ;)
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Koba - Georgian 'Robin Hood' folk legend, pre-dating Stalin or Soviet Communism.
It's also the name of a French lingerie shop (thanks again, Straffo :D).
And one of my tutors had Koba as a surname.
That was even easier, staga. ;)
Care to tell me where 'jewkilla' comes from? And how can that be construed as anything other than the obvious? Thanks in advance.
[ 06-19-2001: Message edited by: Dowding ]
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KOBA (http://www.fortunecity.com/rivendell/sakura/144/koba.htm) :)
(http://www.fortunecity.com/rivendell/sakura/144/nkcid.gif)
[ 06-19-2001: Message edited by: mietla ]
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Is it so hard to understand?
Every time I've seen message from "System: Victory 1 for Koba" my heart starts to bleed when I remember all those Ukrainian ppl who died in hunger because of Stalin (Also known as Koba but you already knew that).
Same goes with Jihad:
I always remember those Israeli soldiers wounds and bruises when members of Jihad (Organization in this case) throw them with stones in Ghaza.
You hurt my feelings by using names like those ones you.. you.. you.. REPUBLICANS !
_____________________________ ________________
Not joking anymore:
Sorry but I just can't take posts like that serious. As you can see some people in here are also using nick-names someone could think offensive thought I could not care less. After all these are just games, Nothing more and nothing less.
If I see people marching in the streets with flag with swastika in it I would become worried but if some underaged kid wants to create some polemic in the game or in the BB by using names like jewkilla (Is that even in a dictionary?) or DerFuhrer or something with similar (bad-)taste why should I bother to flame him?
He's propably not worth of time spent to do it.
So "Koba", Are you gonna dump that name or are you still going to use name Stalin was also known?
Because I really see it hypocritical if someone who is using nick-name which Stalin was known is concerned about some other players nicks.
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Uhm, there's a very well defined line between being intentionally insulting/offending and then there's Jihad and Koba... both are reasonable titles to call yourself or your online persona... "JewKilla"? "DerFuhrer"? Lets push this envelope as far as we can "N*ggerHater"... I'll stop there.
You are simply being rediculous Staga, thinking that because one names himself after a Holy War, or one of the many things Dowding listed for Koba, you think that JewKilla is just as acceptable?
Your thinking is bassackwards, if I need to detail it for you, then I sincerely hope that you go out on the streets and yell out a string of vulgarities including "I'm going to kill all Jews, Blacks, Indians, and Spaniards!"
Enjoy the beating you receive, and tell me that "JewKilla" is an acceptable name.
-SW
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Originally posted by Staga:
you.. you.. you.. REPUBLICANS !
You called Dowding a REPUBLICAN!?? Now, that's offensive :)
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Mietla it is, the question is. offensive to him, you or both? :D
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And we care about this issue... why?
Ok we'll lets do something about it!
It's time the X-genners stand up for something and either put up or shut up.
Let's march on to Washington and demand an audience with the Supreme Court?
Yah that's the ticket!
Nexus :p
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Heh, you guys think the boards are bad. Wait til you see inside, I was playing german a couple of times and saw a few 'politically incorrect' statements flying, along the lines of killing jews, cupcake remarks etc.
Sad really, not CRSs fault though.
Getting back to Dowdings original post. If CRS own the BBS, they can ban him. End of story.
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Agree. If someone comes to my store and badmouths it to every customer as they walk in the door, he's getting kicked out and then a protection order put on his arse.
You can't expect to go to someone else's board and bash the game over and over and over again. It becomes non-constructive at that point.
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Originally posted by Staga:
Is it so hard to understand?
Every time I've seen message from "System: Victory 1 for Koba" my heart starts to bleed when I remember all those Ukrainian ppl who died in hunger because of Stalin (Also known as Koba but you already knew that).
That's because of your background
for me it just refer to http://www.koba.fr (http://www.koba.fr)
You see the difference ? we don't allways understand things the same way .
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You guys saw post where someone found usenet post from DesertFox where he asked certain people to join him in his journey in WWIIOL.
(Lets think he was real)
Which one do you see bigger threat:
Underaged kids who took offensive names
-or-
Full-Time Nazi named Johnny or KKK-Member named Mr.A. you've been chatting last year without knowing his political/ideological orientation?
We have one nazi-clown here in Finland who calls himself as a "Leader of
KDP/ NDP/ NSDAP
in Finland" and likes to wear WW2 military clothes.
IMHO he is smaller threat(You can be sure cops are watching his movements) than Mr.A who is doing his work in the "shadows".
Think about it.
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Originally posted by StSanta:
Mietla it is, the question is. offensive to him, you or both? :D
I was obviously being sarcastic and by doing that I was trying to show the level of absurdity of this topic.
The point is, all labels are relative. What is offensive to one guy, can be perceived as a complement by another.
From his previous posts, I know Dowding is a socialist, and proud of it. I am a libertarian and therefore a staunch anti-socialist and proud of it. Nothing wrong with that, we competely disagree, but I still like the guy (platonicaly of course).
BTW, I saw him fly off the handle on a topic of race a couple of times, so I'm not sure how he'll take the REPUBLICAN label. He is a brit, but still...
REPUBLICAN = starve the elderly
REPUBLICAN = "can I have more salmonella on my burger please"
REPUBLICAN = we demand an arsenic in a drinking water
REPUBLICAN = no BJ's in the Oval Office :)
Mind the :) Dowding!!!
It is just plain amusing to watch this silly PC brigade trying to enforce the speach code.
jewkilla -- can't have that
hitlerkilla -- that one is definitely OK
bugkilla -- not sure, what do you think Commerade?
jookilla -- ???
jwkilla -- ???
geekilla -- ???
gkilla -- ???
jewquilla -- ???
How absurd and silly can you get?
It is perfectly legal to make an idiot of yourself. If you want to call yourself xxxkilla, be my guest. It colors my opinion of you, but hey, who cares?
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But then again, this is a privately owned BB, so whoever owns it sets the rules. Ammendment I takes a hike her.
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Originally posted by mietla:
But then again, this is a privately owned BB, so whoever owns it sets the rules. Ammendment I takes a hike her.
private thats it, if you don't accept theyr rules, cya.
It's so simple.
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I have said time and time again, if you dont like my posts, you dont have to read them. Simple as that.[/b]
I'd say people should rather use common sense and be from posting crap instead (how many times they've told the same song already about toejamty game etc.?)..
Im just tired of all the BS I see in WWII OL forums, can't find any threads with a sense when 9 out of 10 are squeaking complaining blahblah.
well, this just assuming that posts have been that same blahblah crap like "most" of the posts in style "I hate this crappy buggy toejam" * 100 by same person. (without having any point of sense in the message)
Free speech is a good thing, but sometimes people gets too much into it.
Free speech should be used with consideration, not just to put up some toejam over and over again.
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I'm not being PC in any way, shape or form.. what I am being is getting offended because millions of Americans, Russians, Britains, Australians, French and many more died to stop this kind of crap.
If you are going to play a game about WW2, atleast honor those that had fallen 60 years ago so you can walk in freedom today.
-SW
[ 06-20-2001: Message edited by: SWulfe ]
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I'm not American - how the hell could I be Republican? ;) I thought that was the first requirement.
I'm not even that Socialistic if you look at British politics. But I'm someonewhere between a neo-marxist and a full blown communist if you look at the US political spectrum. :D
I am a liberal though.
Staga are you seriously comparing my choice of handle to that 'jewkilla' schmuck? Koba is not necessarily synonymous with Stalin, but you're taking the piss if you believe 'jewkilla' can be attributed to anything other than the holocaust.
Besides the 'Koba' part of Dzhugashvili died when he took the name Stalin - before he was just some run-of-the-mill revolutionary and lackey of the big leaders. When he became Stalin, the name he used while he murdered an undisclosed number of Russians (some have the figure as high as 10 million), he had become disillusioned with the whole revolution and the men who had started it.
Like SWulfe rightly says, it's not about being PC. It's about decency - a subjective concept, but where there is a grey area, it is bordered by black and white.
'Jewkilla' is definitely in the black (to 99% of people). Shame you can't see it that way, Staga.
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If someone is using name like that it shows bad taste, stupidity, lack of education and propably very young age.
You have very bad habit to draw conclusions about people too fast Koba....
btw last time I met a Nazi-Wannabe (In a cruise) I listened him couple minutes and after that I gave him a advice:
Don't go walking on deck in night 'cause if I see you there I'm going to kick you to the sea.
Didn't saw him anymore in that cruise :D
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The only oppinion I have on the id "situation" at CRS is that the know about the issues by now. Any further debate on it only adds fuel to the fire and gives those that only want to be contraversial more opportunity to do so.
Seems everything that needs to be said has been... time to just ignore them.
AKDejaVu
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Originally posted by Staga:
You guys saw post where someone found usenet post from DesertFox where he asked certain people to join him in his journey in WWIIOL.
(Lets think he was real)
Which one do you see bigger threat:
Underaged kids who took offensive names
-or-
Full-Time Nazi named Johnny or KKK-Member named Mr.A. you've been chatting last year without knowing his political/ideological orientation?
We have one nazi-clown here in Finland who calls himself as a "Leader of
KDP/ NDP/ NSDAP
in Finland" and likes to wear WW2 military clothes.
IMHO he is smaller threat(You can be sure cops are watching his movements) than Mr.A who is doing his work in the "shadows".
Think about it.
Lemme comment on this first. You see a guy coming at you with a gun who wants to kill you and the other with a baseball bat who just wants to maim you. Who's the bigger threat? You're definitely not going to ignore the second after you deal with the first.
I didn't actually read the user agreement fully with WWIIOL (nor with AH), but I'm pretty sure somewhere in there it's going to mention something about offending other people. This usually comes down to a judgement call on the game company's part. Point is, if you have a problem with someone being offensive, whether it be their name, they're harassing you, or whatever, you -should- be able to report it to the game company and they -should- deal with it in the appropriate fashion. I know that hate groups (including the Nazi party) are absolutely forbidden in Ultima Online, and I'm pretty sure it's grounds for immediate and permanent banning. I also know for a fact that they'll change your name for you if it's questionable. Whether or not CRS (and any other online game) will follow along the precedent set in UO remains to be seen.
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Originally posted by Dowding:
But I'm someonewhere between a neo-marxist and a full blown communist if you look at the US political spectrum. :D
Stay in England, Dowding :)
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I have no intention of doing that, Mietla. :)
I'll see every part of this world before my time is up, and I doubt I'll still be living in England when I die.
I'm not actually even remotely a communist/marxist and not particularly socialist. I was exaggerating to make a point. ;)