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General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Furball on July 20, 2005, 05:00:52 PM

Title: Bring on the Spitfires!
Post by: Furball on July 20, 2005, 05:00:52 PM
now that the token america planes have been done... ;)

bring on the Spitfires!
Title: Bring on the Spitfires!
Post by: Krusty on July 20, 2005, 05:20:55 PM
And the 109s!!!! *more drool*!!!
Title: Bring on the Spitfires!
Post by: 1K3 on July 20, 2005, 05:24:15 PM
and hopefully....

A complete lineup of 7 SPITFIRES, 109s, and 190s

pleeeeeeeease

:D
Title: Bring on the Spitfires!
Post by: 1K3 on July 20, 2005, 05:38:46 PM
put some malcolm hood on spitfires also:)

last but not least

A complete lineup of 7 SPITFIRES, 109s, and 190s

pleeeeeeeease

SPITFIRES

Spit 1     (with 100 octane fuel)
Spit 5b     (+12 max WEP)
Spit F 9     (current spit 9 is a Frankenstein!)
Spit LF 9c OR Spit LF 8
Spit LF 9e OR Spit LF 16
Spit F 14     (+21 boost)

109s

109E-4     (with DB 601N engine)
109F-4     (remove GONDOLAS option)
109G-2
109G-6
109G-10
109G-14     (this is a 109G-6 with MW-50 booost)

190s
(pls remove 190A-5, turn it to 190A-6)

190A-3
190F-3     (1st ground attack variant of 190s)
190A-6     (almost same as 190A-5 but stregntened wings and an option of 4x MG 151s instead of MG FFs)
190A-8     (with BMW 801 TS engine this time ;))
190F-8     (with BMW 801 TS, 2nd ground attack variant of 190s,)
190D-9
Title: Bring on the Spitfires!
Post by: BTW on July 20, 2005, 07:57:27 PM
Ya know, if they're gonna mess with the gauges, I'd prefer they leave them alone - unless HTC is being subsidized by hardware manufacturers :)
Title: Bring on the Spitfires!
Post by: Krusty on July 20, 2005, 08:13:28 PM
IK3, don't push it :P

I'd settle for a de-UFOed SptiV and a de-nerfed spitIX. If they change the flight models on what we HAVE, I'd be happy. If they add any more, that's icing on the cake.
Title: Bring on the Spitfires!
Post by: SuperDud on July 20, 2005, 09:40:32 PM
No we need more American planes fixed like the F4U's.
Title: Bring on the Spitfires!
Post by: lasersailor184 on July 20, 2005, 10:51:19 PM
What's wrong with the F4u's now?
Title: Bring on the Spitfires!
Post by: SuperDud on July 20, 2005, 11:08:49 PM
Nuthin wrong, just need redone.
Title: Bring on the Spitfires!
Post by: jetb123 on July 20, 2005, 11:10:34 PM
Id say all the american stuff gets done first
ITS zee bestest!11111
Title: Bring on the Spitfires!
Post by: doobs on July 20, 2005, 11:27:29 PM
Quote
Originally posted by SuperDud
No we need more American planes fixed like the F4U's.


what he said
Title: Bring on the Spitfires!
Post by: StarOfAfrica2 on July 21, 2005, 01:41:35 AM
I'll give that one an AMEN!  :)
Title: Bring on the Spitfires!
Post by: Skydancer on July 21, 2005, 02:58:43 AM
So you want a game called US fighters?

Cos thats what it will be if you get your way. Don't forget people from all over this planet pay good money to play this game.
Title: Bring on the Spitfires!
Post by: Dead Man Flying on July 21, 2005, 08:01:36 AM
Don't forget that the most of the blue planes plus the P-40s need a rework too, Supes.  Let's petition HTC to remodel F4Us, F6Fs, F4Fs, and P-40s in the next patch instead of Eurocrud.

-- Todd/Leviathn
Title: Bring on the Spitfires!
Post by: moot on July 21, 2005, 08:23:25 AM
HurriIIb, Yak9M..
Title: Bring on the Spitfires!
Post by: Wadke on July 21, 2005, 09:31:25 AM
Blue Planes and Spitfires
Title: Bring on the Spitfires!
Post by: killnu on July 21, 2005, 09:40:00 AM
a6m's and la's need redone next...
Title: Bring on the Spitfires!
Post by: Stang on July 21, 2005, 09:40:17 AM
P


40


N



:eek:
Title: Bring on the Spitfires!
Post by: Masherbrum on July 21, 2005, 09:41:21 AM
PBY Catalina, D. 520 and the IAR8 is all that is needed.

Maybe the Swordfish.

Karaya
Title: Bring on the Spitfires!
Post by: AWRaid on July 21, 2005, 09:55:19 AM
I think the more popular planes should be redone first. Then move on to the lesser used planes.

What about adding the 109 k4?


Also whats wrong with the Spit V? It was recognised as the best all around spit there is. Later models are faster but as everyone knows...with speed comes a wider turn.


With the size of maps, I'd like to see aircraft fuel more in line with their real life flight times.

Spits and 109s alike would benefit from this.
Title: Bring on the Spitfires!
Post by: Karnak on July 21, 2005, 10:03:51 AM
AWRaid,

Our Bf109G-10 is a Bf109K-4 in all but name.

Generally the Spitfire Mk LF.Mk IX got the nod as the best all round Spitfire.  The Spitfire LF.Mk VIII might have beat it for that if it had been more common.
Title: Bring on the Spitfires!
Post by: lasersailor184 on July 21, 2005, 10:36:45 AM
Stang, I'd wet myself if I saw a P40n.
Title: Bring on the Spitfires!
Post by: Mitsu on July 21, 2005, 10:37:42 AM
and the N1K2-J and A6Ms, Ki-61s!!! droooool
Title: Bring on the Spitfires!
Post by: Skydancer on July 21, 2005, 01:10:45 PM
mitsui no no no don't you know Only US planes should be done! Says so in here:rolleyes:
Title: Bring on the Spitfires!
Post by: Guppy35 on July 21, 2005, 01:24:27 PM
Coulda swore much of the remodeling was being done with TOD in mind.  

Seems like that puts the ETO birds up first doesn't it?

So Spits and 109s make sense since the 190s, 51s, Jugs and 38s have been done.

B17, B26, Ju88(Maybe a solid nose nightfighter variant as seen by the daylight bombers on occasion) and the Me110 would be on the list, with the 262 and 163 at some point.

Tempest, Mossie and Tiffie too? :)

Dan/CorkyJr
Title: Bring on the Spitfires!
Post by: SELECTOR on July 21, 2005, 02:32:24 PM
i think the spit line up we have at the moment is fine. maybe a mk7 or mk 8 to fill a gap..
what is really needed is the wing type options. clipped, gun lay out. also engine boosts need to be fixed.
as far as 109s go they are pretty well spread  for the  duration.. only thing i would fix is the bracing around the cockpit..
Title: Bring on the Spitfires!
Post by: Karnak on July 21, 2005, 02:39:44 PM
SELECTOR,

So having:

1939: Spitfire Mk Ia (+6lbs boost, saw no combat)
1940:
1941:
1942: Spitfire Mk Vc (+16lbs boost), Spitfire F.Mk IXc (Merlin 61, only 300 built, +15lbs boost), Seafire Mk IIc (+16lbs boost, less than 300 built)
1943:
1944: Spitfire F.Mk XIV (+18lbs boost, fails to match historical climb rates and is highly perked)
1945:

is fine?

Why would you want a Spit VII?  It was practically nonexistant.
Title: Bring on the Spitfires!
Post by: SuperDud on July 21, 2005, 03:27:58 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Skydancer
mitsui no no no don't you know Only US planes should be done!  


Ya see, Skydancer knows what he's talking about!
Title: Bring on the Spitfires!
Post by: Skydancer on July 21, 2005, 04:12:13 PM
:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
Title: Bring on the Spitfires!
Post by: SuperDud on July 21, 2005, 04:54:38 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Skydancer
:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:



I don't get it? One second your saying we should redo the F4U line and the next you're giving the eye roll? Are you just being sarcastic???
Title: Bring on the Spitfires!
Post by: Furball on July 21, 2005, 05:05:33 PM
AMERIKA PLENEZE!!!!1!!!1

MUer plenes america!!11!

iwantiwantiwatnt!!11!

ROLR
(http://furballunderground.com/blueknights_pictures/userfiles/Furball/New%20Bitmap%20Image.GIF)
Title: Bring on the Spitfires!
Post by: SuperDud on July 21, 2005, 05:09:24 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Furball
AMERIKA PLENEZE!!!!1!!!1

MUer plenes america!!11!

iwantiwantiwatnt!!11!

ROLR
(http://furballunderground.com/blueknights_pictures/userfiles/Furball/New%20Bitmap%20Image.GIF)


What can you say to that really??? LOL as always Furball, you've outdone yourself:eek: :rofl
Title: Bring on the Spitfires!
Post by: Furball on July 21, 2005, 05:10:30 PM
Quote
Originally posted by SuperDud
What can you say to that really??? LOL as always Furball, you've outdone yourself:eek: :rofl


i'm not a 12 year old American really, honest, i just do a good bbs impression...
Title: Bring on the Spitfires!
Post by: XrightyX on July 21, 2005, 05:49:30 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Stang
P


40


N



:eek:


No doubt.  I had the figures in a previous post, but the P40N was Curtiss's last attempt to make the fighter "war-worthy".  There were something like 3500 built.  360 mph at 12Kish, max ord of 1500 lbs.  Only problem was that the P51 and later model P47s were out by late 1944 when the N was being delivered.
Title: Bring on the Spitfires!
Post by: SuperDud on July 21, 2005, 08:11:51 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Furball
i'm not a 12 year old American really, honest, i just do a good bbs impression...


Funny you say that b/c to be honest, I'm not a 24 year old female. I just look good in drag.
Title: Bring on the Spitfires!
Post by: 1K3 on July 21, 2005, 10:29:50 PM
Back to the subject...

Bring on teh Spifires (and 109s and 190s)

please:)

pleeeeeeeease

SPITFIRES

Spit 1 (with 100 octane fuel)
Spit 5b (+12 max WEP)
Spit F 9 (current spit 9 is a Frankenstein!)
Spit LF 9c OR Spit LF 8
Spit LF 9e OR Spit LF 16
Spit F 14 (+21 boost)

109s

109E-4 (with DB 601N engine)
109F-4 (remove GONDOLAS option)
109G-2
109G-6
109G-10
109G-14 (this is a 109G-6 with MW-50 booost)

190s
(pls remove 190A-5, turn it to 190A-6)

190A-3 (first variant Fw-190s in numbers)
190F-3 (1st ground attack variant of 190s)
190A-6 (almost same as 190A-5 but stregntened wings and an option of 4x MG 151s instead of MG FFs)
190A-8 (with BMW 801 TS engine this time )
190F-8 (with BMW 801 TS, 2nd ground attack variant of 190s,)
190D-9
Title: Bring on the Spitfires!
Post by: Kev367th on July 21, 2005, 11:26:03 PM
Quote
Originally posted by 1K3
Back to the subject...

Bring on teh Spifires (and 109s and 190s)

please:)

pleeeeeeeease

SPITFIRES

Spit 1 (with 100 octane fuel)
Spit 5b (+12 max WEP)
Spit F 9 (current spit 9 is a Frankenstein!)
Spit LF 9c OR Spit LF 8
Spit LF 9e OR Spit LF 16
Spit F 14 (+21 boost)

109s

109E-4 (with DB 601N engine)
109F-4 (remove GONDOLAS option)
109G-2
109G-6
109G-10
109G-14 (this is a 109G-6 with MW-50 booost)

190s
(pls remove 190A-5, turn it to 190A-6)

190A-3 (first variant Fw-190s in numbers)
190F-3 (1st ground attack variant of 190s)
190A-6 (almost same as 190A-5 but stregntened wings and an option of 4x MG 151s instead of MG FFs)
190A-8 (with BMW 801 TS engine this time )
190F-8 (with BMW 801 TS, 2nd ground attack variant of 190s,)
190D-9



Real Close
Try -

SPITFIRES

1940 Spit 1 (with 100 octane fuel)
1941 Spit 5b (+12 max WEP)
1942 Spit F 9 (Merlin 61, std boost)
1943 Spit LF 8 (Merlin 66, std boost)
1944 Spit LF XVI (+25lbs boost, 150 grade fuel,clipped wings)
1944/45 Spit F 14 (+21 boost, 150 grade fuel)

1944? Seafire L III (Merlin 55M, +16lbs boost))
Title: Bring on the Spitfires!
Post by: Squire on July 22, 2005, 12:55:10 AM
Kev, without a 1941 109F-2 or a 1942 Fw190A-2, why would you want to see a 1941 Spit Vb? What would you match it against?

Do you see any requests for the 109F-4 to be replaced by a 109F-2? I don't.

Makes more sense to just add the drop tank option to the Spit Vc we have, label it properly, and your done, unless HTC is going to add a 1941 LW fighter.
Title: Bring on the Spitfires!
Post by: Kev367th on July 22, 2005, 10:09:09 AM
I was only looking at a Spit lineup, to be honest I don't know enough about 109s to make a guess at a good range for them.
Title: Bring on the Spitfires!
Post by: Pyro on July 22, 2005, 10:46:06 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Squire
Kev, without a 1941 109F-2 or a 1942 Fw190A-2, why would you want to see a 1941 Spit Vb? What would you match it against?

Do you see any requests for the 109F-4 to be replaced by a 109F-2? I don't.

Makes more sense to just add the drop tank option to the Spit Vc we have, label it properly, and your done, unless HTC is going to add a 1941 LW fighter.


What's wrong with the Vb - F-4 matchup?  They were contemporary opponents and I think that would be a good matchup.
Title: Bring on the Spitfires!
Post by: Skydancer on July 22, 2005, 11:58:03 AM
Hey Pyro can we get the Spits redone next?
Title: Bring on the Spitfires!
Post by: thrila on July 22, 2005, 12:22:56 PM
Skydancer, someone from HTC has already stated spits and 109s are next.

Pyro can now model a clipped wing spit, i know he wants to.:)  Mmmmm.....spits.
Title: Bring on the Spitfires!
Post by: Karnak on July 22, 2005, 12:26:01 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Pyro
What's wrong with the Vb - F-4 matchup?  They were contemporary opponents and I think that would be a good matchup.

Maybe he is thinking of the very early Spitfire Mk Vb with the fabric control surfaces, float carburator and Hispano Mk Is rather than the more common Spitfire Mk Vb with metal control surfaces, improved stopgap carburator, Hispano Mk IIs at +12lbs boost.

I still like the list I posted in the Aircraft and Vehicles forum:

Spitfire Mk Ia (+12lbs boost)
Spitfire Mk Vb (+12lbs boost, metal control surfaces)
Spitfire F.Mk IXc (Merlin 61 at +15lbs boost)
Spitfire LF.Mk VIII (Merlin 66 at +18lbs boost and full span wings)
Spitfire F.Mk XIV (Griffon 65 at +21lbs boost, perked)
Spitfire LF.Mk XVI (Merlin 266 at +25lbs boost, clipped wings, lightly perked?)
Seafire L.Mk III (By far the most common wartime Seafire)

That gives a usable Spitfire coverage for any theater and any year of WWII.
Title: Bring on the Spitfires!
Post by: Furball on July 22, 2005, 12:29:00 PM
Quote
Originally posted by SuperDud
Funny you say that b/c to be honest, I'm not a 24 year old female. I just look good in drag.


AAAAAAAAhahahahahahhahahaaaaa aaaaaa.

Title: Bring on the Spitfires!
Post by: Kev367th on July 22, 2005, 12:34:58 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Karnak
Maybe he is thinking of the very early Spitfire Mk Vb with the fabric control surfaces, float carburator and Hispano Mk Is rather than the more common Spitfire Mk Vb with metal control surfaces, improved stopgap carburator, Hispano Mk IIs at +12lbs boost.

I still like the list I posted in the Aircraft and Vehicles forum:

Spitfire Mk Ia (+12lbs boost)
Spitfire Mk Vb (+12lbs boost, metal control surfaces)
Spitfire F.Mk IXc (Merlin 61 at +15lbs boost)
Spitfire LF.Mk VIII (Merlin 66 at +18lbs boost and full span wings)
Spitfire F.Mk XIV (Griffon 65 at +21lbs boost, perked)
Spitfire LF.Mk XVI (Merlin 266 at +25lbs boost, clipped wings, lightly perked?)
Seafire L.Mk III (By far the most common wartime Seafire)

That gives a usable Spitfire coverage for any theater and any year of WWII.



Spit XVI lightly perked? your having a laugh. Only a Merlin 266, not a Griffon engined spit.
Title: Bring on the Spitfires!
Post by: thrila on July 22, 2005, 12:45:43 PM
It would be great if clipped wings could be chosen in the loadout screen as with bombs/rockets.  To be honest i would be over the moon if even a single spit had clipped wings.

I do like Karnak's list.:)
Title: Bring on the Spitfires!
Post by: Greebo on July 22, 2005, 01:12:40 PM
Quote
Originally posted by thrila
It would be great if clipped wings could be chosen in the loadout screen as with bombs/rockets.  To be honest i would be over the moon if even a single spit had clipped wings.

I do like Karnak's list.:)


I suggested something like this recently to HTC, but was told it isn't possible. The bits like weapon pylons that are removeable in the loadout screen don't have all the necessary forces modelled.
Title: Bring on the Spitfires!
Post by: Krusty on July 22, 2005, 01:58:47 PM
There is no way in heck the spitfire 1 had +12 (the same as the spitfire Vb), when it had far far inferior performance and an earlier engine. Dream on.
Title: Bring on the Spitfires!
Post by: Jackal1 on July 22, 2005, 02:18:41 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Skydancer
So you want a game called US fighters?
 


We`ll put Mr. Hines on that right away.
Want to invest some cash?
Title: Bring on the Spitfires!
Post by: Karnak on July 22, 2005, 02:29:06 PM
Kev367th,

The performance at +25lbs boost very well might require a 5 to 10 perk point price.  It would out perform the current +18lbs boost Spitfire Mk XIV at lower altitudes.

Quote
Originally posted by Krusty
There is no way in heck the spitfire 1 had +12 (the same as the spitfire Vb), when it had far far inferior performance and an earlier engine. Dream on.

This has been covered.  The BoB Spitfire Mk Is were at +12lbs boost.

Unless you have some evidence that counters the rather firm evidence for the +12lbs boost Spitfire Mk Is I suggest you accept that they were at +12lbs.

I don;t really understand why you think the fact that the initial Spitfire MK Vs were at +12lbs boost means that the Spitfire Mk Is could not have been.

Does the Spitfire Mk XIV's initial +18lbs boost mean that the Spitfire LF.Mk IX could not have been at +18lbs, or even +25lbs, boost then?
Title: Bring on the Spitfires!
Post by: Kev367th on July 22, 2005, 03:01:44 PM
Karnak - Yes maybe faster at lower alts than our current XIV, this is no reason to perk it. Geez, still plenty of unperked faster low alt planes than a 25lbs boost XVI.

Krusty - Spit 1 Merlins converison for 100 fuel began March 1940, the fuel was released to squadrons in May 1940, the same time Churchill came to power, co-incidence? I think not.
They had stockpiled huge amounts of 100 grade fuel before the war even began.
The only Spit 1's that 'might' have used 87 grade fuel in wartime would have been during the Battle of France.
Title: Bring on the Spitfires!
Post by: Skydancer on July 22, 2005, 06:32:58 PM
"We`ll put Mr. Hines on that right away.
Want to invest some cash?"

I already invest my cash in this game every month as do many others from around the world. Therefore I think it right that other nationalities planes get done as well as US planes.

So Jackal the answer is no I don't :D
Title: Bring on the Spitfires!
Post by: Squire on July 22, 2005, 07:53:46 PM
Pyro, the problem is if you just have one version of the SpitV, the SpitVb of 1941 is of less use overall than a SpitVc (length of service, theaters of ops, it has a bomb, ect), imho anyways.

If I had to pick one it would be the Spit Vc of 1942 but I dont know what additions you have planned, we have to guess  :)

Its also been pointed out that the 109F-4 runs at a 1942 ata rating in AH, so while everybody clamors for a 1941 Spit Vb, none of the LW fighters are from 1941 (109F-4, 109G-2, Fw 190A-5). Im talking about TOD matchups not just the MA.

It would be great to have both the Spit Vb (1941 rated) and Spit Vc (1942 rated), that would cover the bases for the Mk.V. If the 109F-4 stays as is, thats not a big deal.

...and of course an un-hybrid F. IXc and a 43-44 LF IXc (or LF VIIIc or LF XVIe).

Regards.
Title: Bring on the Spitfires!
Post by: Guppy35 on July 22, 2005, 08:46:50 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Squire
Pyro, the problem is if you just have one version of the SpitV, the SpitVb of 1941 is of less use overall than a SpitVc (length of service, theaters of ops, it has a bomb, ect), imho anyways.

If I had to pick one it would be the Spit Vc of 1942 but I dont know what additions you have planned, we have to guess  :)

Its also been pointed out that the 109F-4 runs at a 1942 ata rating in AH, so while everybody clamors for a 1941 Spit Vb, none of the LW fighters are from 1941 (109F-4, 109G-2, Fw 190A-5). Im talking about TOD matchups not just the MA.

It would be great to have both the Spit Vb (1941 rated) and Spit Vc (1942 rated), that would cover the bases for the Mk.V. If the 109F-4 stays as is, thats not a big deal.

...and of course an un-hybrid F. IXc and a 43-44 LF IXc (or LF VIIIc or LF XVIe).

Regards.


I'd still go with a Vb instead of a Vc.  It was much more the dominant Spit V flying out of England.  They were Vbs flying with 501 Squadron over Normandy as an example in 44.

The Vc ended up more often in the MTO, CBI and Pac, and even then in the MTO there were lots of Vbs.

In terms of the MA I think, in particular if you have the increased boost in the LFV that the lower ammo load might slow the use down a bit.

So I'd still go with:

Spit Ia  (covers 39 through 40 & B of B)
Spit Vb full span wings (41-42
Spit LFVIII with full span, universal wings (covers 43-45 in MTO, CBI and Pac Stand in for LFIX with universal wing43-45)
Spit LFIXe/XVIe with clipped wings(44-45 ETO)
Spit XIVe with full span wings. (44-45 ETO and CBI)

That gives the most coverage and bang for your buck whether it be scenarios or MA use.

Edited to add image of one of those 1944 Vbs of 501

Dan/CorkyJr
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/169_1120112041_5-dday02-001.jpg)
Title: Bring on the Spitfires!
Post by: 1K3 on July 22, 2005, 09:12:48 PM
(cough)

imo we still need Spit 9 (with merlin 61) stop-gap fighter to cover 1942-43
Title: Bring on the Spitfires!
Post by: Kweassa on July 22, 2005, 09:13:01 PM
- Spitfires-

    Spitfire MK.Ia ('40)
    Spitfire F.MK.Vb ('41)
    Spitfire F.Mk.Vc ('42)
    Spitfire F.Mk IXc ('42)
    Spitfire LF.MK.VIIIc ('43)
    Spitfire LF.MK.XVIe ('44)
    Spitfire F.MK.XIVe ('44) (perked)

    7 planes, representing 5 years of combat

    Notes:

    * Spitfire F.MK.Vb('41) will be restricted to the 'b-wing' armament option. Total 120 rounds of 20mm cannons(60rpg)

    * Spitfire F.MK.Vc('42) will be allowed the use of the 'universal wing' armament options. It will be given a hangar armament option of;

    a) 8x 30cal
    b) 4x 30cal + 2x 20mm(120rpg)

    The 4x 20mm option for all the Spitfire variants with 'c' wings, is open for debate.

    *The Spitfire F.Mk IXc ('42) will be removed of bombs, rockets, and M2 50cals.

    *The Spitfire LF.Mk VIIIc will use the Merlin 66 engine, full length Universal wing. It will substitute the 1943 LF.Mk IX, as well as be suitable for Med. and Pac. theater usage.

    *The Spitfire LF.Mk XVIe, will use the 1580 hp Packard R.R. Merlin266 at +25lbs Boost. Clipped wings, bubble canopy, and "E" wing option, with M2 50cals available. It's performance is between the Spit8 and the Spit14, and will be the best performing, free Spitfire.

    *The Spitfire F.Mk XIV, will be raised to +21lbs boost to justify it's perked status and keep it as the ultimate Spitfire in AH.






    quote:

    - Bf109s-

    Bf109E-4 ('40)
    Bf109F-4 ('41)
    Bf109G-2 ('42)
    Bf109G-6 ('43)
    Bf109G-14 ('44)
    Bf109G-10 ('44)
    Bf109K-4 ('44) (perked)

    7 planes, representing five years of combat

    Notes:

    * All the Bf109 models(E-4~G-6), that does not use MW50, will be corrected in the WEP duration time, shortened to 5 minutes.

    * The Bf109G-14, will use the DB605AM. MW50, 10min. WEP duration. 414mph max. speed

    * The Bf109G-10, will be using the DB605DBM, 428mph top speed. This will the best performing free Bf109.

    * The Bf109K-4, will be modelled separately from the G-10 - different engine cowl, fully retractable tail wheel.

    This model will retain the former AH G-10 top speed of 452mph, and become the ultimate Bf109. It will be perked. Perhaps, inclusion of rare equipment such as Fletnners, or type U6 option with 2x MK108 wing gondolas could be justified, due to the newly introduced perk prices.
Title: Bring on the Spitfires!
Post by: Guppy35 on July 22, 2005, 09:28:41 PM
* Spitfire F.MK.Vc('42) will be allowed the use of the 'universal wing' armament options. It will be given a hangar armament option of;
 a) 8x 30cal
b) 4x 30cal + 2x 20mm(120rpg)

The 4x 20mm option for all the Spitfire variants with 'c' wings, is open for debate.


There is no evidence that the Spitfire Vc ever used 8 303's.  It was capable, but it wasn't used in practice.

There were some early Spitfire Va's with 8 303s but they were not universal wing Spits.  Douglas Bader's kite being one of these.

If I had a say, and I know I don't :)  I wouldn't have the 4 20mm cannon armament usable in the MA.  It might make sense for  scenario use in a latewar MTO scenario, as they did get used in the ground attack role there with 4 20mms.  But they weren't dog fighters in that configuration.

Still think the XVIe should be a high back as the skinning options for wartime XVIs would be much greater, and I think they look better, but that's just me :)

Dan/CorkyJr
Title: Bring on the Spitfires!
Post by: Squire on July 22, 2005, 09:32:24 PM
"Vbs flying with 501 Squadron over Normandy as an example in 44."

-Thats an Spit L.F. Vb.

From Spring 1943 with a +18 lbs boost Merlin 50M. It has no relation to a 1941 Spit Vb Guppy.

...and yes you do need a Spit F.IX otherwise you have nothing for 1942-early 43 at all.
Title: Bring on the Spitfires!
Post by: Ack-Ack on July 22, 2005, 09:34:20 PM
Weren't the Spitfire Vc that were launched off carriers to reinforce Malta air defenses configured with the 4x 20mm cannons and didn't Vc also see limited service over Greece in a fighter role?


ack-ack
Title: Bring on the Spitfires!
Post by: Guppy35 on July 22, 2005, 09:38:37 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Squire
"Vbs flying with 501 Squadron over Normandy as an example in 44."

-Thats an Spit L.F. Vb.

From Spring 1943 with a +18 lbs boost Merlin 50M. It has no relation to a 1941 Spit Vb Guppy.

...and yes you do need a Spit F.IX otherwise you have nothing for 1942-early 43 at all.


Understood on the LF part of the equation.  I'm thinking more of the armament option.  

If we are limited to one Spit V, I think it still should be the earlier Vb.  It could stand in for a 44 Vb should it ever be needed in a scenario.

Obviously if we got more then one, then the Vb and Vc idea makes great sense :)

I'm just not holding my breath on that.

Dan/CorkyJr
Title: Bring on the Spitfires!
Post by: Guppy35 on July 22, 2005, 09:45:46 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Ack-Ack
Weren't the Spitfire Vc that were launched off carriers to reinforce Malta air defenses configured with the 4x 20mm cannons and didn't Vc also see limited service over Greece in a fighter role?


ack-ack


The Spit Vcs launched off the Wasp had 4 cannon.  But once down, two were removed to save weight and increase performance.  It was a convnient way to get more 20 mms to Malta as well.

Vcs saw a lot of action over Malta, Siciily and Italy.

The only place I've ever seen photos of 4 cannon Spits used operationally on a squadron wide basis was with 2 Squadron SAAF over Italy in the ground attack role.

Images of top to bottom, 2 Squadron 4 cannon Spit Vc over Italy.
Spit Vc with 4 cannon being loaded on to Wasp
Spit Vc from Wasp after repaint on Wasp and removal of 2 cannon after arrival on Malta.

Not many are going to want the performance robbing Vokes filter to go with those 4 cannons either :)

Dan/CorkyJr
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/169_1105579700_4cannonspitvc.jpg)
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/169_1105579654_waspspitvc.jpg)
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/169_1105579634_maltaspit.jpg)
Title: Bring on the Spitfires!
Post by: Squire on July 22, 2005, 09:50:52 PM
In regards to the Spit VIII or Spit LF IX for 43-44, my preference is the Spit LF IX.

Reason: TOD will be ETO and the LF IX served in ETO and MED. It was also the most used varient of the Merlin 66 Spits.

It would help to know what new types if any were coming, because we are debating "what ifs" dependant on types we dont know will be added. Thats ok, Im just saying its hard to decide when you are guessing .

*Kweassa's list is still very good for both the 109s and Spits, I hope HTC has a hard look at it.*

P.S. 4 x 20mm for the Spit Vc. I say "no" as it was a minor varient and its potential for overuse is high. Same with the 109F-4s gondolas, take them off.
Title: Bring on the Spitfires!
Post by: Wotan on July 22, 2005, 10:11:33 PM
Yup get rid of the gondolas with the 109F-4.

Kweassa's list is perfect for AH.

 Spitfire MK.Ia ('40)
Spitfire F.MK.Vb ('41)
Spitfire F.Mk.Vc ('42)
Spitfire F.Mk IXc ('42)
Spitfire LF.MK.VIIIc ('43)
Spitfire LF.MK.XVIe ('44)
Spitfire F.MK.XIVe ('44)

I am not sure if it matters whether HT does a LF.VIII or an LF.IX. WETO will probrably get the most focus in ToD as Squire says. However, If they do a VIII they might be convinced to add a clipped wing LF.IX at some point.

As for having to Spit V variants (Vb @ 12lbs and Vc @ 16lbs) I think that would be a great idea.

But certainly no 4 x 2cm...

The main 109 needed for AH and ToD is the G-14. It would great if HT could do a separate G-10 and K-4 (or just get rid of the 2cm option and call it a K-4).

However, all the wishful thinking so far hasn't gotten that much...

My prediction is...

No new 109s

1 new Spitfire and it will be Spitfire LF.MK IX clipped wing...

I am 55% - 45% on the new Spitfire. After all there's still a P-51H, P-38K, P-63c that AH doesn't have. We all know AH needs more late war Ami planes...
Title: Bring on the Spitfires!
Post by: Slash27 on July 22, 2005, 10:28:48 PM
nah, just add the Bearcat.
Title: Bring on the Spitfires!
Post by: 38ruk on July 23, 2005, 01:10:37 AM
Quote
I am 55% - 45% on the new Spitfire. After all there's still a P-51H, P-38K, P-63c that AH doesn't have. We all know AH needs more late war Ami planes...



Well we will never see a p38K , iirc there was only two built and one was actually a P-38E converted to a K , used to test  the high activity Hamilton standard props .  The only actually P-38K was never photographed . .....     38
Title: Bring on the Spitfires!
Post by: Wotan on July 23, 2005, 12:09:35 PM
I guess my attempt at sarcasm slipped by...
Title: Bring on the Spitfires!
Post by: Furball on July 23, 2005, 12:43:09 PM
you need to be a bit more blatant, they are a bit slow...  try this: -

AM
Title: Bring on the Spitfires!
Post by: SuperDud on July 23, 2005, 03:30:26 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Furball
you need to be a bit more blatant, they are a bit slow...  try this: -

AM


YEAH@!!!# We need new F4U's and a B29!!#@!#!@
Title: Bring on the Spitfires!
Post by: Squire on July 23, 2005, 10:34:00 PM
Something to consider re the Malta Spitfires as well, since they were often scrambled on short notice rate of climb was very important. I think they felt that what firepower addition 4 cannons might have given, the extra weight and drag was simply not worth it.  In ground attack roles...thats not as big an issue. Which is why you rarely see 4 cannon spits unless they are Vcs in the Desert or Med doing fighter-bomber duty.
Title: Bring on the Spitfires!
Post by: 38ruk on July 24, 2005, 02:50:23 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Wotan
I guess my attempt at sarcasm slipped by...

Well the p-51h and the P-63c where both delivered before the end of WW2 , the p-38K was a prototype , So if your going to be sarcastic , try to be more over the top than that .
Title: Bring on the Spitfires!
Post by: Wotan on July 24, 2005, 03:04:12 AM
Delivery? Who mentioned delivery?

The sarcasm is here and obvious:

Quote
We all know AH needs more late war Ami planes..


Maybe I should have phrased it like Furball:

Quote
AM
Title: Bring on the Spitfires!
Post by: Furball on July 24, 2005, 04:07:00 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Wotan

The sarcasm is here and obvious:



he's a MAW.... :D ;)

maybe start adding colours to the sentence to highlight sarcasm to make it easier for them
Title: Bring on the Spitfires!
Post by: Furball on July 24, 2005, 04:14:12 AM
This thread needs more pictures: -

(http://furballunderground.com/blueknights_pictures/userfiles/Furball/SpitfireMV238.jpg)

(http://www.airforce.forces.gc.ca/equip/grfx/equip_gallery/historic_gallery/wallpaper/spitfire.jpg)

(http://www.superiorshine.com/shine%20spitfire.jpg)
Title: Bring on the Spitfires!
Post by: 1K3 on July 24, 2005, 01:11:59 PM
Spitfire LF Mk. XVI (model)

YUMMY!:D

(http://www.ipmsstockholm.org/magazine/2002/11/images/brabaszynski_spitxvi_20.jpg)
Title: Bring on the Spitfires!
Post by: 1K3 on July 24, 2005, 01:16:16 PM
Bf-109G-14 (courtesy of Il-2)

(http://rafiger.de/Homepage/FBMuseum/Info-JG5/Bilder/Bf-109G14-Blue8.jpg)
Title: Bring on the Spitfires!
Post by: Guppy35 on July 24, 2005, 01:43:32 PM
Quote
Originally posted by 1K3
Spitfire LF Mk. XVI (model)

(http://www.ipmsstockholm.org/magazine/2002/11/images/brabaszynski_spitxvi_20.jpg)


Give me an AH version of that one and I'll fly it, even if I don't like the look as much of the bubble canopy.

Those are accurate markings on that model for a late war 2 TAF Polish flown Spit of 308 Squadron

Dan/CorkyJr
Title: Bring on the Spitfires!
Post by: 1K3 on July 24, 2005, 01:47:23 PM
Spitfire LF Mk. VIII (?)

Creamy :aok

(http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/9378/spit21.jpg)
Title: Bring on the Spitfires!
Post by: Guppy35 on July 24, 2005, 01:49:39 PM
Spitfire XIVe,  Flying out of Texas these days If memory serves.

Markings are for 17 Squadron, flown by B of B ace Ginger Lacey

Dan/CorkyJr
Title: Bring on the Spitfires!
Post by: 1K3 on July 24, 2005, 02:07:17 PM
Bf-109G-10

(http://www.warbirdphotos.net/aviapix/Fighters/Me109/bf109g.jpg)

(http://www.warbirdphotos.net/aviapix/Fighters/Me109/bf109-23.jpg)

(http://www.warbirdphotos.net/aviapix/Fighters/Me109/bf109-32.jpg)
Title: Bring on the Spitfires!
Post by: 1K3 on July 24, 2005, 04:23:36 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Guppy35
Spitfire XIVe,  Flying out of Texas these days If memory serves.

Markings are for 17 Squadron, flown by B of B ace Ginger Lacey

Dan/CorkyJr


oops I just noticed the long nose, a bulge on engine exhaust, and a big-fat propeller.

thx for correcting
Title: Bring on the Spitfires!
Post by: Hoarach on July 25, 2005, 02:04:32 PM
Redo the spits and give us the gloster meteor.
Title: Bring on the Spitfires!
Post by: Furball on July 26, 2005, 03:03:01 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Hoarach
Redo the spits and give us the gloster meteor.


Hey, I like you - i like your thinking, makes me feel guilty for killing you yesterday.
Title: Bring on the Spitfires!
Post by: BUG_EAF322 on July 26, 2005, 04:03:32 AM
I want this :

(http://aerostories.free.fr/reaction/vamp.vol.nb.JPG)