Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: JB88 on July 22, 2005, 07:57:43 PM
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how can we expect other countries to develop and sustain thier own constitutions if we cannot do so with our own?
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...brought to you by the same group of knuckleheads that want a Constitutional amendment to ban flag burnings.
Remember, we get the government we deserve. VOTE!
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vote for what or... who? one the one hand we have super patriots that want to control you and on the other we have socialists who want to be your mommy and tell you what is too dangerous to do or own.
not a lot of choice there but I still gotta go with the control freak patriots.... you can at least reason with them... and... I won't be their target most likely... with the socialist ban everything crowd.. I seem to constantly be their target.
it's like... Am I more worried about them seeing what books I've checked out of the library or..... on the other side... telling me I got to wear life jackets in the bathtub kinda thing.
I can live without a library card.
lazs
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so, vote against something.
Just freakin vote... why should you let other folks make all yer choices.
Regarding the Paitriot Act... some old dead dude said:
Those who give up essential liberties for temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.[/b]
I think the old dead dude was on ta something.
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YeaH, I am with ya Laz. Both sides suck, but one side wants to take away gas cars, (especialy old muscle and 4X4s)guns, 5 gallon buckets, jet skis, hunting, fishing, meat, smoking and fun.
hell if the lefty guys have their way all you we be able to do with your time is browse porn( any kind, including sheep and kiddy) and do drugs.
Both sides are out to get the rest of our rights. :D
Me? I want guns,drugs, porn and muscle cars and 4x4s all at the same time!!
;)
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Lazs, do you seriously think that you can change anything by voting?...
From what you, guys, wrote - I see that ypu are moving fast towards the most effective government system ever invented: good old USSR...
The only thing I can say - you'd better choose stalinism instead of gorby/khruschev pseudoliberalism. Seriously.
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hang.. I do vote. I vote against something as you say. If there is any chance a democrat may get in I vote republican... if the republican is a shoe in then I vote libertarian.
not the best solution but... best I can come up with.
I would vote against a partriot act but no one asked me.
I voted to make english the official language of kalifornia but the democrat socialist appointed 9th circuit kommisars said my (and the rest of the majorities) vote/s didn't count. That has happened with about 3 ammendments here in kalifornia... allways the socialist commie judges.
lazs
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gto... I am with ya. Those are the things I need not trigger locks on skill saws or life jackets to swim in lakes and rivers (yep.. the women got that one passed)
boroda.. maybe but... you guys invented it.. you embraced it and defended it and some... like you... still do.
We are a ways off yet.
lazs
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not sure if this is true but saw on the news in passing a couple of republicans that want to be libertarians pushed hard for amendments to the patriot act that made some of the not so populare parts of it renewable. personally I was glad to hear that but like I said it was in passing.
SOme of the other provisions need to be permanant. The CIA and FBI need to be ABLE to share intel data among others.
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Originally posted by lazs2
boroda.. maybe but... you guys invented it.. you embraced it and defended it and some... like you... still do.
I don't defend "Soviet socialism". I only say it had some advantages over Western system. The difference is not only social/political but simply geographical.
We didn't have anything lilke life-jackets in bathtubs. I find this methaphore absolutely brilliant.
We didn't invent it, we were only lab rabbits for 70 years to show an obvious thing: human nature can't be underestimated. You can't build a society that shares with ordinary people who are usually selfish.
Get a gun, buy a wooden house in taiga and live on your own. It's easier and more effective then "voting". "Democracy" (tm) is nothing but a cheap and effective way to increase coke and chewing-gum sales.
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Originally posted by Boroda
We didn't invent it, we were only lab rabbits for 70 years to show an obvious thing: human nature can't be underestimated. You can't build a society that shares with ordinary people who are usually selfish.
Simple yet profound. I like it.
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Sort of. And there's still the Senate.
When it was enacted in 2001, the Patriot Act contained 16 provisions that were considered new grants of investigative authority. Congress attached sunsets to those provisions, requiring that they expire this year unless specifically renewed.
Republican leaders said 13 of those provisions didn't need renewed sunsets. Of the three others, the House bill limits one and sunsets two in 2015 unless Congress renews them.
Those two provisions allow the government to conduct "roving wiretaps," which monitor all of a person's electronic communications rather than a particular phone line, and obtain business documents and library patron records without the knowledge of the person being investigated...
...The Senate Judiciary Committee yesterday unanimously passed a measure that includes four-year sunsets on the same two provisions as the House bill. The Senate bill goes further than the House in restricting many of the other 14 renewed provisions.
Some lawmakers promised a fight to sunset the other provisions on the full Senate floor.
"There's still a lot of uneasiness about this legislation in middle America, and I think we need to pay attention to that," said Sen. Tom Coburn, Oklahoma Republican. "I believe it's very important for us to send a message of comfort to the American people that not just the two provisions in this bill will be sunsetted."
Now, how many of those here that have stated their dislike for the PA will start a meaningful written campaign to ALL the Senate stating their desires wrt the PA?
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OK I'm confused....and actually intoxicated,
but WTF is a sunset? does that mean they have to be renewed after a certain amount of time?
If so I think that is totally reasonable. I dont want the govt having extra powers because of a war but there are provisions that if used properly are entirly nescesary. Others need to be continued while some of them should expire with time.
I'm glad at least people arnt confused about this bill being related to actual patriotism.
SEE NOT ALL REPUBLICANS ARE EVIL! IN YOUR FACE MOORE!
:aok
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Originally posted by Gunslinger
I dont want the govt having extra powers because of a war
Do you see a trick? The "war" started by your current rulers is endless, there is no way to win it. So they simply want extra powers forewer. Smart guys, indeed. Àôôòàð, ïåøè èñ÷î.
Don't you have "5 minutes of hatered" on TV already, for collective meditation? Believe me - it will come soon.
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boroda.. I am glad you realize that being extorted is against human nature and that communism is allways doomed to fail when humans are involved.
I do fail to see anything that soviet russia had that I want tho.
I also think that you have hit on another basic truth.... if you don't like it... move away. While some things have been accomplished by voting... moving away from population centerws is allmost allways a better way to stay free... except if you are randy weaver say during a democrats rule.
lazs
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Originally posted by lazs2
boroda.. I am glad you realize that being extorted is against human nature and that communism is allways doomed to fail when humans are involved.
I do fail to see anything that soviet russia had that I want tho.
I also think that you have hit on another basic truth.... if you don't like it... move away. While some things have been accomplished by voting... moving away from population centerws is allmost allways a better way to stay free... except if you are randy weaver say during a democrats rule.
lazs
While I'm in agreement with you I've come to the conclusion it won't work, at least not for long.
With the tech they have now and what's coming...........
You can't be allowed to live away. It creates hope in your fellow citizens/slaves. You WILL live in the cities with everyone else or you will be hunted down and killed if necassary.
Who will do the hunting? Why would they want to hunt you? You're kidding right?
Those that hunt you will be told their doing it for the good of the state/people. They will be lied to, or worse they will have the SS mentallity and will actually take joy in any challenge you might present.
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Originally posted by Boroda
Lazs, do you seriously think that you can change anything by voting?...
From what you, guys, wrote - I see that ypu are moving fast towards the most effective government system ever invented: good old USSR...
Ummm is that why it lasted less then 100 years? LOL
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Gah, I was willing to tolerate the Patriot Act on a part time basis, but this **** won't fly.
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the soviet union was a mistake and a disaster for the entire world. Lennon should have been killed as a young man and stalin was just a schematic for hussein and other toxic gasses.
What you have today with the russian federation is the best shot at evolution the russian people will ever have.
On Topic: I have yet to read or hear anything about making any provision of the patriot act permanent.
Besides you guys, you americans at least, should know that no law in a democratic system is permanent.
Any law or act can be changed.
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(http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B000002KHH.01._SCLZZZZZZZ_.jpg)
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Originally posted by Yeager
the soviet union was a mistake and a disaster for the entire world. Lennon should have been killed as a young man and stalin was just a schematic for hussein and other toxic gasses.
What you have today with the russian federation is the best shot at evolution the russian people will ever have.
On Topic: I have yet to read or hear anything about making any provision of the patriot act permanent.
Besides you guys, you americans at least, should know that no law in a democratic system is permanent.
Any law or act can be changed.
well, then either you are not reading enough or you are not seeing through the barrage of information and changes that are occurring faster than we can keep up with them (the informed populace.)
further, while i agree with you that laws can and do change, there is one essential point that most americans seem to be missing.
THE CONSTITUTION is not something that is easilly changed. many of the basic rights guaranteed by the the constitution are being eroded by low level edicts via the patriot act.
if the congress or the government wants to change the constitution it may do so but this is a long process and requires a much larger concensus...including ratification on the state level.
this is my major beef. the constitution is being ignored by those in power who know that they could not easilly change it to further political agendas.
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well...its going on three days now and the only place...the ONLY place I have heard about making any provision of the PA permanent is on this bsb. Hell...even CNN is not making any stink over this latest renewal of select few of the PA provisions.
I take as many different news/media sources into account as possible whenever I level load all the data out on any particular news piece. When the data divergence is on the bsb only, then I disregard that tidbit of info completely. Which btw, I find is the case about 40% of the time.
Perhaps you have a legit web link you could post, sorry if I already missed it?
Eagler, Great Album BTW :D
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Originally posted by JB88
how can we expect other countries to develop and sustain thier own constitutions if we cannot do so with our own?
Well maybe we're smarter than you. :)
(don't be so arrogant)
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and "we" are?
(dont be so coy)
;)
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Originally posted by Boroda
Do you see a trick? The "war" started by your current rulers is endless, there is no way to win it. So they simply want extra powers forewer. Smart guys, indeed. Àôôòàð, ïåøè èñ÷î.
I dont know what the last part of the paragraph means but the rest of it pretty much sums up the patriot act as far as I can see. It could be around for a long time. There is allways going to be some threat to US national security even when the current situation dies down, so the pa might even become permenatly embeded in some shape or form. Governments, even democraticly elected ones take such liberties it's not funny. There's not much you can do about it either if it's been done in the name of national security.
Excel
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boroda... You are right about them hunting you down and killing you to make an example...
the democrats would love everyone to be loafer wearing taxi riders herded intp cities... they do go out and hunt down those who live free.. Randy Weaver and his family were targeted by hundreds of secret police for death. His crime was that he wouldn't co-operate in targeting larger groups that had left the city and didn't vote socialist.
Branch diviidians left the fold and were.... even worse... religious... something that former commies know is the worst thing on earth... they also exercised their 2nd ammendment rights in a way that was unashamed... they were a bad example that simply had to be dealt with... democrats burned allmost 30 children alive to get the point across.
lazs
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Originally posted by Yeager
the soviet union was a mistake and a disaster for the entire world. Lennon should have been killed as a young man and stalin was just a schematic for hussein and other toxic gasses.
October revolution was only a result of Emperor's treason and improper use of heritage laws.
If only Great Prince Nikolay Nikolayevich could take power from his silly nephew... :(
Nice typo about Lenin ;)
Stalinism was the only way for the nation to survive. Unfortunately I don't see any alternative.
Stalinism = a system of social relations where in emergency conditions the responsibility directly corresponds with a level of decisions made. A person responsible for vital decisions should be responsible with his life.
Originally posted by Yeager
What you have today with the russian federation is the best shot at evolution the russian people will ever have.
Seeing the situation from inside - I can only say that you are horribly mistaken :( What we got here is Stalinism upside-down: the more vital decisions made are - the lesser the responsibility is. But still we don't have anything like PA. Everything is worked in ordinary, non-emergency way. A rebellion of terrorists that lasts for 15 years now with occasional bomb or two in Moscow is an ordinary situation, we got used to it 1000 years ago. We don't heed any special legislative act to bayonet terrorists on our own land.
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88, what is your opinion on racial profiling? (i.e. rag*****)