Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Hangtime on July 23, 2005, 12:47:41 PM
-
When my daughter was born, to satisfy my liberal wife and sterilize the incessant debate, my 1911 .45 acp went to my brother. It went with him in Oregon. My old mossberg 12g went to my Father-in laws.
There are no weapons currently in my house.
I shoot every once in awile with friends using their stuff at a range.. I'm way outta practice, but like riding a bike, a few rounds brings back the instinct and brings up to the forebrain the training and conditioning.
My kid grew up, the Mossberg is rusted junk, the .45 is MIA. I read the paper, watch the news, I'm feeling a bit itchy. I don't fear the folks in my neighborhood, and I've never felt an overpowering need to carry concealed. But I am concerned that in a very few years, those that don't have may never have a weapon.
Considering the probablility of 'need' forces a careful consideration of the circumstances of need.. possible point defense, but more likely mobility security.. defense while in vehicle or cross-country on foot. Logistics forces a careful rethink of traditional considerations.
I'd like your best considered advice regarding the nature and selection of weapons for such circumstances. The qualifiers are cost and likely availabilty of ammo, concealability for one weapon, 'reach' and durabilty and ease of slinged carry for the long gun. Both must be robust. Weight is an issue. Speed of deployment is an issue. If both the cancealed and long gun use the same ammo, that would be a big plus, as long as it can be easily aquired... would consider a carbine here. Not having much luck finding an ideal 'pair' of weapons.
Thanks!
-
Sig P226 in 9mm, .357 SIG or .40 S&W.
Probably cost under or right around $400
-
The well armed citizen should have .................One of these!
(http://www.prosportuk.com/images/catimages/11.jpg)
:lol
-
WTF are yah gonna do with that? Flip pizza? I got one of these. Far more effective.
(http://www.sport2000.net/images/Louisville_Slugger_Catalyst.gif)
-
Rule #7
-
Both the same caliber?
Hmmm suggests a 357 pair to me.
Say a 357 revolver and a 357 lever action, perhaps a marlin? With this combo one could take deer size game should the need arise. The length of the barrel only ads to the velocity/energy in this caliber.
It is possible to go with a 9mm but I don't care for the 9mm.
Could do the same in a .44 but the recoil on the .44 pistol can be extreme with heavy loads. A ruger and a marlin? S&W and a marlin? Think Ruger has. or used to have, a 44 mag carbine as well.
Not the same caliber?
.45 acp and perhaps an SKS? Or a good quality bolt action in .308?
All the calibers mentioned are readily available in most area's of the U.S.
The 7.62x39 Russian cartridge has become very popular and seems to be availble everywhere within the U.S.
Rifle calibers that seem the most popular ........
30.06, .270, 308, 7mm mag.....
.270 is very flat shooting relative to most and has the plus of lower recoil.
Just some thoughts hope they help.
-
Remington 870.
(http://www32.ocn.ne.jp/~infinity/gun/remington_m870/m870-05.jpg)
Personally, I wouldn't buy a used gun from a dealer, only from someone I know that shot the thing. Just me though.
.357 would be a good option as well. Use .38 ammo for cutting paper.
Karaya
-
I would agree with wrag, the boom in the cowboy action shooting market has made many lever action guns available in pistol calibers. The .357/.38 lever actions, and the same in a revolver make for a nice combo. From experience though, I will make this observation. The .357/.38 cartridges are rather difficult to load in the lever action, unless you have smaller fingers. I have a hard time getting them loaded easily, having to use my pinky finger lots of times to finish pushing the cartridge into the gun.
The .45 LC versions of the revolver and lever action gun are much easier to load (IMO). While the energy isnt there in the cowboy loads, you can find full power loads for the guns that perform quite nicely. A full powder load with a 250 grain bullet at around 1200 fps does significant damage when it hits and has quite a punch. The Ruger Vaquero is a really nice gun in the .45, along with the replica Colts that are out there on the market. You can get them in Single or Double/Single action. If you are concerned with overpenetration in a home environment, go with the lower powered cowboy loads. They'll deliver a 235 grain bullet at around 900 fps. Enough to do the job. If you still have worries even with the low power loads, try the Glasers bullets. They make them in .45 LC for home defense.
-
I think 45 Colt is an excellent caliber for your purpose, and along with the .357 Magnum, fits well with your goal of having both share the same caliber.
The only real drawback is the fact that while I LOVE revolvers, the auto loader is a better package for concealed carry if concealment is the primary concern.
A Ruger GP 100 paired with a Winchester lever action carbine would make a good pair. Affordable, reliable, durable, and accurate.
I use single action guns for 45 Colt as a general rule, not good for concealed carry personal defence (confronting anyone with a cocked single action weapon is a real liability). I don't know if you can find a concealable 45 Colt double action revolver in a size and shape that is easily concealable.
The 45 Colt offers the best range of ammunition commonly available for multiple purposes. But the .357 Magnum isn't bad either.
Were it not for your desire to have both weapons share the same ammunition, I'd immediately suggest a Sig P220 in 45ACP and a Winchester lever action carbine in 44 Magnum for wider utility.
-
I'd nominate .357 / .38 too.
-
With your specification for long and short gun to use the same shell it's gotta be what Wrag said. Either in .357 or .44 Mag.
If not the same ammo then more choices are open.
-
(http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?s=&postid=567189)
and
http://www.henryrepeating.com/bigboy.cfm
-
I have Ruger .22, but I think I might get rid of it since I really like to get 1911A1 Colt .45 Pistol
-
Shortest barrell auto-loading shotgun you can find.
-
springfield XD 40....
right around $430
-
Forget the "same cartridge" idea. You want a handgun that seriously stops the argument at close range and a rifle cartridge that can reach out and do the same at a distance.
You want both to use "readily available" ammo.
OK... here you go:
(http://www.armalite.com/sales/catalog/rifles/AR10T_CAR.jpg)
AR - 10(T) Carbine .308 (http://www.armalite.com/sales/catalog/rifles/ar10t_carbine.htm)
For the pistol, I like the Sig 220 in .45 ACP idea.
(http://www.sigarms.com/apps/cmt/img/p220-small.jpg)
Classic Full Size P220 (http://www.sigarms.com/products/classicfullsize-models.asp?product_id=40)
-
yeah, but the thing is, he wants somthing he can buy cheap.
A short 12 gauge shotgun with slugs and buck loads with nine pellets... they throw more lead than machine guns in the same time.
Its cheap, deadly and doable.
-
Best option for "cheap" is a used .357 revolver in good shape and a Winchester 30-30 for hunting. It's good through Black Bear and Elk within it's range. The 30-30 is a far better choice than a Marlin in either .357 or .44. It's a solid rifle cartridge. Good simple firearms for only occasional use and they will get the job done. Each is very common and ammo is readily available.
The old WW2 rifles that were dirt cheap and available to customizing are drying up now and prices are rising. By the time you get done it would be cheaper to buy a comparable caliber civilian bolt action.
-
A lever action carbine does a pretty good job with pistol ammo (.357 or 44mag) out to 150 yards or so. Pretty decent if in wooded or brushy terrain.
I played around with a .357 colt peacemaker, had a hat 'n everything, jus like jesse james. ;)
Was looking at a marlin camp .45 carbine a few years back.. looked pretty good. Heard it was pretty quiet too... big 'ol slow subsonic slug outta a long barrel.. ;) prolly only good to 150 yards, tops.
*sigh* always compromises, enh?
-
I'm surprised no one has mentioned any .40 cal weapon yet.
Hang my 2 cents.....studies have shown that one of the most frightening and yet effective sounds for pacifying somone is the Cocking of a shotgun.
In a small room in the still of the night I think it really does have the "make the perp crap his pants" effect you want in home deffense.
-
I really like my .40 beretta, much more than the half dozen other .40s I've tried out, but everyone else seems to bag on it so I don't offer it up for discussion much anymore.
I also like the .40 round as a compromise between the puny 9mm and the modern .45 which kills my wrist, but then people start bagging on the .40 because of the 10mm which hardly anyone uses anyhow even though it's somehow "universally accepted" as being better than the .40. Except that it has a longer casing so it makes the grip larger and tougher for the average person to hold on to.
I even have a cool San Diego County Sheriff special edition single action revolver chambered in .40... A Ruger Vaquero if I recall correctly, and I got it cheap because it was a factory second due to flawed commemorative engraving on the barrel. Now that gun is fun to shoot, a real old-skool "cowboy" sort of weapon. It's the one I keep for home defense at the bedside on the theory that any intruder who manages to get into my bedroom is not going to expect a single action revolver, so if he gets ahold of the gun he'll probably waste some time wondering why the gun doesn't work when he pulls on the trigger. It's not much, but I figure it's better than encouraging him to stab me with a steak knife while I'm awake.
Come to think about it, I just might buy some broken guns and leave them out on the theory that most burglers are stupid and greedy, so they'll go for the gun every time. Might as well give him a broken one so all he can do is try to club me with it :)
-
I shoot either one just as fast as the other but I personally use a Remington 11-87 as my primary hunting weapon. Semi automatic, holds 4+1 in the chamber 12 gauge shotgun shells.
With the 870 pump you can do no wrong, reliable and just as mentioned before about the studies that show...the cocking of a shotgun is going to make intruders think twice about their current situation.
For around the house, the 870 is also very light. That is also a big plus for carrying it in the woods. I've never had my 11-87 (semi automatic) jam except when I used very low powered rounds with the gun very dirty. Such as the end of the day during a trap competition after firing 150 shots or the end of a week-long dove hunting trip when you can shoot a lot...an awful lot. The 870 jamming is unheard of from my experience...so thats a consideration you may want to have if the weapon is for home defense.
Pistols...take your pick. You can deafen an intruder and yourself all at once by firing a .44 Magnum in the house. In conversation with police officers who have seen the effects, I'm told that the 9mm can't even compare to a .40 caliber. .40 caliber hands down for automatic pistols.
I'd pick something you can plink with and use in the field rather than having it only confined to a drawer of a nightstand.
-
Originally posted by eagl
I really like my .40 beretta, much more than the half dozen other .40s I've tried out, but everyone else seems to bag on it so I don't offer it up for discussion much anymore.
I also like the .40 round as a compromise between the puny 9mm and the modern .45 which kills my wrist, but then people start bagging on the .40 because of the 10mm which hardly anyone uses anyhow even though it's somehow "universally accepted" as being better than the .40. Except that it has a longer casing so it makes the grip larger and tougher for the average person to hold on to.
I even have a cool San Diego County Sheriff special edition single action revolver chambered in .40... A Ruger Vaquero if I recall correctly, and I got it cheap because it was a factory second due to flawed commemorative engraving on the barrel. Now that gun is fun to shoot, a real old-skool "cowboy" sort of weapon. It's the one I keep for home defense at the bedside on the theory that any intruder who manages to get into my bedroom is not going to expect a single action revolver, so if he gets ahold of the gun he'll probably waste some time wondering why the gun doesn't work when he pulls on the trigger. It's not much, but I figure it's better than encouraging him to stab me with a steak knife while I'm awake.
Come to think about it, I just might buy some broken guns and leave them out on the theory that most burglers are stupid and greedy, so they'll go for the gun every time. Might as well give him a broken one so all he can do is try to club me with it :)
Don't most police use the .40 because it has more knockdown power than a 9mm but without the kick of the .45 and is less likely to pass through a person?
-
Haven't had a pistol in the house for 30 years.. not really considering own home defense.. more vehicle and travel defense. agree on the sound of a slide of a shotgun being stroked from behind a door.. if things got that ugly in my neigborhood I'd just move. But I take the point; an 18" mossberg defender is prime. ;)
Same for the 'long' gun.. assuming i'd be using it from cover at fairly close range.. if it'll hit reliably at 200 yards with open sights that'd be fine. Also not really looking for a 'home defense' weapon in the traditional sense.. but it would have to be a good 'from the window' kinda gun. ;)
should i get off the 'one ammo' kick; Who makes a carbine in any caliber that costs under $400.00 ? Any good nato round surplus stuff around? And is surplus nato ammo cheap and available?
-
Hit what reliably at 200 yards?
One of the cheapest to buy and buy ammo for carbines is the SKS. Most of them will shoot 3" at 100 yards from what I've heard.
If you're shooting at a deer, you should be able to hit it with an SKS out to 150 yards pretty easily which is all the SKS cartridge should be asked to do. Basically, the SKS round is close to a .30-30. It's not really a long range round in the sense of a .308.
An SKS is cheap and so is the ammo. Might work for ya. Note the Yugo SKS's don't have chrome lined bores. You need to clean them quick when shooting corrosive (cheap) ammo.
-
Any 12 guage police/military style shotgun will do. They are tremendously reliable, have awesome power and are very easy to use and load. Slug or 00. Lighter and smaller than many rifles. They cost about 150 bucks.
I have a Mossberg Maverick 12 guage police. Its the scariest thing I have ever fired, and I was in the Army Reserve as an Infantrymen. It will shoot through just about anything and it sounds like a howitzer when it goes off.
A friend of mine has a Chinese made SKS. Great bush gun. Reliable as anything.
-
I take it you havent been to a gun show lately have you? :)
Here's my "last resort" lineup, what I keep for home defense/end of the world scenario/I've gone off my rocker and start killing people indiscriminately scenario. J/K with the last one.
.357 Rossi with the factory rubber grips. Loaded with Glaser rounds in the house, CorBons for anything else. Mossberg "riot" gun with the short barrel and 8 round capacity, pistol grip stock, loaded with 00 Buckshot. Russian M44 7.62x54 stripped of its military hardware and put on a synthetic stock, setup with the small Russian sniper style scope. Accurate out past 200 yards. Thats as far as I've tested it anyway. I prefer the Winchester Silver-Tips for this. Theres lots of surplus ammo out there, but its all FMJ and dirty shooting stuff. The Winchester ammo is more accurate at distance and shoots cleaner, and its not that expensive. Finding it is harder, but most decent gun stores can get it.
Those Russian rifles are really a good deal. I'd personally recommend the M38 instead of the M44 I have, same gun it just doesnt have the bayonet attatchment on the barrel. I bought two of them for $50 each, and I have an M38 but it's in the closet at my brother's house. I intend someday to swap the M38 barrel assembly onto the synthetic, restore one of the M44's to military specs, and keep it for show. The M38 cost me more, but it was still under $300, and it was in nearly perfect condition. The Russians used those bolt action guns all through WWII, and they made the rounds in Vietnam too as sniper rifles. The bullets are about the same size as a Brit .303 round. Packs one helluva punch.
-
Just saw new/unissued Yugo SKS's for $225 and Chinese unissued for the same price.
I'm thinking it's a cheap, reliable carbine at that price.
-
Ruger has some carbines in .40S&W and 9mm for under $650 suggested. The use the ruger pistol clips. Although I would prefer .45, I hear .40 is OK.
Ruger Carbines (http://www.ruger-firearms.com/Firearms/FAProdResults?function=famid&famid=20)
-
If you are looking at a Sig the best prices on Sig Handguns I have seen are here:
http://www.ordnanceoutsellers.com/index.htm
I have pretty much chosen to go with a Sig P226.
The only things to decide on are 9mm vs .40cal and New In Box or Sig's Certified pre owned. The price difference from the website above is $200, $465 vs $669.
-
buy a second-hand longarm. no need for registration so harder for the coppers to track you down:aok
-
I find myself looking for the Laz take but as a been in the field type I would say this.The 243 is a good flat shooting gun.Less recoil than the 7mm rem but just as much stopping power if your looking to shoot game or terrorists from a dist.up close gun?I like that Mossburg.2 rounds of .000 folled by 3 of slug.If that doesnt stop it beat it with the stock or run.
-
Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
If you are looking at a Sig the best prices on Sig Handguns I have seen are here:
http://www.ordnanceoutsellers.com/index.htm
I have pretty much chosen to go with a Sig P226.
The only things to decide on are 9mm vs .40cal and New In Box or Sig's Certified pre owned. The price difference from the website above is $200, $465 vs $669.
Grunherz, one thing I thought I'd mention. I was looking at the stuff available at the local range downtown the other day and they have a large selection of SIGs. They do a big business in refurbs. They are all factory certified like new ones, but sell for at least 300 less. Also, due to the popularity of the P226, they have lots of stock of the P229 and suggested that other gun stores might be having similar problems. The P229 is the same gun really, it just is slightly shorter. Same frame, same grips, same everything. Just about an inch shorter on the barrel length. Might be worth it for you to check out any price differences and try the P229 if it's much cheaper. Might also check on the refurb ones at your local store instead of the website. I know from experience, buying guns off the internet can be a pain.
-
Interesting..
If you were good with a 1911 then you might just consider getting a good 1911 style gun doesn't sound like you want to spend a great deal of time getting used to a new weapon.
I would recomend the Kimber eclipse custom or Wilson combat... both are expensive. eat less till you can afford em. go to a few less movies... whatever.
Long gun? go for an Ak 47 knockoff or a ruger mini 14 or mini 30 with folding stock and some 5 ten and 30 round mags.
carry around? if you think you will need close range fightstoppers... you need a Smith and Wesson 340 PD in .357 mag. There is nothing like it for weight (12oz) concealability and power in the semi auto world. It can also be fired from the pocket.
For me... I like my 44 mags. I can hit as well with em as I can with a carbine at your 200 yard limitation...and, I think they pack more punch. I like the Rugers in superblackhawk and Redhawk or the Dan Wesson in 4 6 or 8 inch barrel. The anaconda looks good but Colt has allways been spotty on reliability for me.
Another interesting and light carbine is the Trapper lever action in 45-70.
lazs
-
I'd like to buy a gun locally, but all the Bay Area gun stores have insane prices.
Lazs, do you know of nay gun store in california where I can get a Sig P226 for $465-500?
-
oh... for cheap and reliable and cheap ammo?
the days of rattle trap 1911's for $75 is long gone but...
the commie stuff is bargin basement, fire sale cheap.
Makarov is the best handgun they made and a steal at around $200... Ammo is like $5 a box in bulk.. the gun is a little heavy for it's size and power but is very reliable and holds 9 rounds. It is not as powerful as a full size 9 mm or as easy to conceal as a 340 pd but it is a well made fairly accurate pistol..
also the sks and ak47 family are good for about the same reasons.
I find it odd these days that people who never owned a gun or haven't owned one in ages are all now asking about getting one and basicaly saying that they want to get one "before it is too late"....
buy the gun(s) and send in the $35 to the NRA and it will probly never be "too late" ...
The best thing you can do to insure that we allways have our gun rights is to buy a gun and join the NRA..
the more of us there are the more our government fears us instead of the other way around.
lazs
-
Originally posted by StarOfAfrica2
... From experience though, I will make this observation. The .357/.38 cartridges are rather difficult to load in the lever action, unless you have smaller fingers. I have a hard time getting them loaded easily, having to use my pinky finger lots of times to finish pushing the cartridge into the gun.
I second that. I have Marlin .357 lever action, and I have to use an extra shell to push the others in past the loading gate. I don't think that my fingers are that much biger than others....
Also, try to use bullets with a round nose profile - mine has hung up on the loading ramp when using semi-wadcutters. I've found the S&B 158 gr. JHP ammo feeds well thru mine and is also fairly accurate. It's not all that expensive when ordered in bulk.
Marlin with S&W 686 is a good combo, but as others have stated, revolvers are not as concealable as autos.
Now if you could find one of the Coonan (?) .357 autos that were made years ago (1911 style auto) you'd have a combo that would fit your wants and needs.
-
If i was u, i would go for a sks, shoots 7.62x39 so the ammo is cheap. it can bring down deer and Elk (at closer ranges) the AP bullets can pierce engine blocks rather easily, no to mention any sort of improvised assault vehicle u could come against (like a tacticle, u know a truck w a gun on it). Relatively light, ive shot my dads since i was 12, standing, kneeling, prone, and bench. 10 round magazine is basic, but u can easily acquire a 30 round box or 75 round drum (detachable or not). easy to maintane, tough, reliable.
For concealed, i would go with a CZ of some kind. cheap, reliable, come in .38 and 9mm.
Just my 2 cents. :aok
-
Originally posted by superpug1
If i was u, i would go for a sks, shoots 7.62x39 so the ammo is cheap. it can bring down deer and Elk (at closer ranges) the AP bullets can pierce engine blocks rather easily, no to mention any sort of improvised assault vehicle u could come against (like a tacticle, u know a truck w a gun on it). Relatively light, ive shot my dads since i was 12, standing, kneeling, prone, and bench. 10 round magazine is basic, but u can easily acquire a 30 round box or 75 round drum (detachable or not). easy to maintane, tough, reliable.
For concealed, i would go with a CZ of some kind. cheap, reliable, come in .38 and 9mm.
Just my 2 cents. :aok
ap... urrruuungh??? 30 round box... roh roh... roh!
ok.. sold. I'll start diggin around in the back of the local commie martyr discount trailer in the parking lot at the next yankees game.
do i want the SK in chicom green or yugo dogturd brown?
-
(http://img216.imageshack.us/img216/4526/p10100286og.jpg)
a few Kimbers always work :)
and heres two ready for a day on the town............
(http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/4057/p10100078so.jpg)
-
some of you guys are just plain.... well... freaky-deaky, yah know?
*sigh*
Boroda's sittin on the sidelines.. wonder what he's thinkin.. the rats on the sinking ship of democracy are lining up for cheap commie auto carbines to blow each other to hell with.
*sigh*
-
If it's the SKS, you want Chicom if you can get one reasonable. The chrome lined bore is a plus when shooting corrosive ammo and the Yugo SKS isn't chrome lined.
Go here to check prices to give you an idea of what you should pay:
http://www.gunsamerica.com/search.cgi
-
I have a 22. Caliber pistol, Highly acurate and Very nice to shoot (its a revoler)
-
How "AP" is the 7.62X39?
http://www.ak-47.net/ammo/steelcore.html
-
won't poke holes in a BTR.
Don't hope to be trying to poke holes in BTR's.
Will be happy if it pokes holes hondas.
don't much like toyotas either.
-
Hang....have a Colt Combat Commander. Had a 9mm P38.
IMHO.the 45 is my choice. Trigger lock, ammo in clips close and accessible only to myself.
The 1911 just feels right. And imho at close range there is no equal.
-
Yup. Gonna follow some good advice. First priority is a carbine; gonna go military surplus. Then a 1911 frame .45acp. Gonna stay with what I know. Will be on the road 4-6 months outta the year in the next few years, would like to have the pistol by then.
There's a local shooting range, gonna start hangin around a few evenings a month and get to know the right folks. Mebbe get in some saftey classes and pick up an NRA card.
If you clowns are gettin ready to start a revolution, I'd feel like an bellybutton if i shot myself in the foot on the first day. ;)
-
A .30 carbine is a good, accurate, inexpensive weapon. For a pistol, I'd have to recomend a .38 Special. Both are great guns.
-
clicky (http://www.santoalt.com/videos/207_Fun_with_the_Stungun.html)
-
Conceal ability is somewhat of an issue ... but for shear fear factor ..... :aok ;)
(http://www.pipersprecisionproducts.com/images/MVC-bp1F.JPG)
-
OK my 2 cents,
If you’re going to buy a handgun for protection, get a revolver. Where there a lot of auto’s out there (I carry a .40) they do take some getting used to. A revolver is a pickup and shoot kind of firearm. Having the pistol in a quick open lock box (a must), your spouse can just open the box and start pulling the trigger. There is no hunting for a safety or charging the pistol, just pick it up and pull the trigger. I know this sounds kind of mean, but that is what we’re talking about.
You have to use the firearm enough to know its quirks. After you get this firearm, remember you MUST teach all people in your home on how to handle it (save any children).
After you decide on who will be allowed to shoot this firearm, they must also fire the gun regularly, at least 1 50 rd box of ammo every 2 months. I know this can be a pain, but were not talking about a jet ski. A NRA sponsored course on handguns is a really good place to start for someone new to handguns.
Find out the local firearms ordnances in your area BEFORE you by the firearm. Check local and state laws concerning owning a handgun and using it for self-protection. God forbid you ever have to use it for self-protection, but if you do, CALL 911 ASAP.
I have been shooting my whole life. I have passed shooting sports to my sons. The last thing I want to do in my life is to shoot one more stage with the Wolverine Rangers SASS club here in Michigan. It was said to me while I was in Texas at a Cowboy Action Shoot by a Texas Ranger, (Yea, a real one). It is better to have it and never need it, than to need it and not have it.
Phaser11 78th Duxford Eagles”
Muddy Leg SASS #60554
-
Hang... if you know the 1911 type then that is the one to get. If you want to save a few bucks you can get the mil spec springfield armory parkerized one. My son has one and it shoots pretty well.
I would really like to advise the Kimber with night sights tho. It really has a quality feel that can't be beat and the night sights give a nice comforting 3 dot glow in the dark on the nightstand.
I have taught my grand daughter to not touch guns but I keep the Kimber with a round in the chamber and the hammer down. she can't rack back the commander type hammer nor can she reach the grip safety and trigger at the same time.
I think that the trrigger pull and fit and finish of the Kimber is more than worth the grand you spend on the gun.
Join the NRA and help us out here. They can be anoying asking for more donations but they are doing good work and they give you a very nice free magazine with your membership.
lazs
-
You guys seriously class an SKS as 'reliable'??
What, you can rely on the bastard not to work properly or hit anything remotely close to your aim point?
Mebbe I just struck bad ones every time, but of the three that I've had anything to do with, there wasn't one that was worth a pinch of dirt. (all Chicom, never seen a Yugo one)
-
Bluedog,
Mine fires everytime and hits what I aim at. Mine was new when I purchased it and is in good shape. Mixed ammo made no difference, it just keeps chugging.
-
Hehe Mr. Bill. A lot of people say that the racking of a shotgun causes a lot of fear in people.
I think it's nothing compared to the whirring from a Gatling Gun.
-
LOL...you have a point there Laser.
" Stand and delliver!! Your money or your wife!!"
wwwwhhhhhhhhhhrrrrrrrzzzzzz zzzzzZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ
"Right then, I'll get me coat shall I?"
Mav, the ones I had constantly jammed because the extrctor would just rip the lip of the empty case off and leave it jammed in the breech.
Firing the round seemed to cause the empty case to mold itself to the inside of the barrel tighter than the extractor was capable of removing, and instead would just rip a piece of the case lip out.
Possibly more the fault of the ammo than the weapons.
Apart from that they were OK, and dirt cheap, both the rifles themselves and the ammo, when they worked they even made decent weapons for pigging in scrubby country.
It's just 'reliable' isnt an adjective I would use to describe them....mebbe I just struck three bad ones.
-
Nothin like a coupla hours on the range ta get yer blood up.
Found out a gun show's coming to town in two weeks.. local shops don't stock the stuff I'm looking for. Laz, if possible, NY is worse than Crapafornia. Will keep going to the range.. checking the local 'for sale' board.
Possibly I'll be able to score what i need at the gun show.. hoping to see a yugo and norinco SKS side by side. No joy on one at the range. Yet.