Aces High Bulletin Board
Help and Support Forums => Help and Training => Topic started by: Kerago on July 23, 2005, 05:46:55 PM
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Something I've been wondering ever since I learned a little more about how the auto-trim settings work in AH:
Is it faster to climb using manual control or the auto-climb feature?
Since Auto-Climb sets an ascent speed based on best-climb at sea level, presumably this loses efficiency as altitude increases. Is this assumption correct? If so, is the difference significant?
Also: Does a notch of flaps increase climb rate or is that just an artificial feeling from the nose-up tendencies of a plane with flaps out?
I realise this information may vary greatly by plane. If anyone knows specifically for, say, a P47 then that would be great :)
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You actually have 3 choices.
Auto Climb
Auto Angle
Auto speed
You are correct that most planes in auto climb will settle down to somewhere around 180-190 or so.
Doing so lets you climb out but may limit your rate of climb (ROC) when the plane is actually capable of doing much better.
Auto Angle sets the nose where ever you park it. If you park it around 3k ROC it will find its own ROC as it settles down and will continue to climb out and a good rate. If you happen to get the nose too high it has a tendency to drop off so much that you may stall as you get higher.
Auto speed lets you set the climb rate as a result of a given speed. Lets say you set the climb speed in a 200 mph in a jug. It might not be the best ROC at 2500 fpm but if you are climbing to arrive in enemy territory at a given altitude then you can set a speed that lets you do that. A Yak, for instance, will take you all the way up to 16K at a ROC of 3k per min at 230 mph. Thats not a bad climb to altitude while maintaining a good maneuvering speed while you climb out.
My suggestion is try all three in your favorite ride and check the speed/ROC you think you'lll normally need to get to the alt you feel comfortable at.
Also, think "cruise speed". Give yourself enough time/distance to grab alt so you can allow the plane to settle down at cruise alt for a few minutes so it can get up to normal cruise speed. This gives you many more options should some enemy planes appear nearby.
Hope this helps.
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Thanks for that :aok
I guess I need to do some playing around.
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Flaps do not increase climb rate, at least not in the long run. For a moment they add lift to the plane (this might help in a tight knife fight, when you are close to stalling and need that little 'push' to get you over the top), but they also cause additional drag, wich costs energy ie speed ie ROC.
You can try this by picking a Hurri (their autoclimb is below autoretract speed) See how the climb rate changes when lowering Flaps or gear for example.
Also, on a side note: AH auto/combat trim doesnt take flaps into account. It trims the plane as if they werent lowered.
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One neat trick is to set the climb speed (with the dot command [.speed xxx]) in a P-38 to 255. That seems to be a magic number that most pursuers will have a hard time following in a climb. Good luck!
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I think autoclimb with the initial at take off given speed gives the best climbrate.
You could try and varry that speed a bit up and down to see if there is any improovement.
As a test climb from below 10k to 15k and note the time it takes from 10k to 15k (so far below that the climb is stabilised when you cross the 10k)
Then try the same with speeds set faster and slower.
Take care to have the same fuel load in each try. Best do it offline without fuel consumption.
Now try the same with diffrent fuel load.
My guess is that the autoclimb is within 5mph of the optimum speed, but its worth a try.
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Btw, is there any method to have the climbrate, speed etc shown as integer values? In fast climbing planes its impossible to judge climbrate by looking at the gauges.
Thanks!
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For speed, check the e6b. Gives you true as well as indicated airspeed, and IIRC speed over ground as well. Climb rates, i dont know, i dont think so.
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e6b?
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Look at your clipboard next time your in flight.
Bottom right side is a button for your E6b.
Gives you all kinds of fuel & speed data.
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Thanks Schatzi and Ghosth! :)
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Some planes like alt, they use it well. Planes like the 51's, Jugs and p47's gain alot of speed quick with a short dive. Normaly I wont go over 10k in any plane. When Im low in any of the above planes, meaning... below 10k, I climb, even if I am in a low speed climb.
Im not sure, but I think auto climb in AH is the best speed/dist/climb rate. I might be wrong. Most of the time I want to just climb, and not gain distance. It gives me potential E I might need. It gives me more options than I would have had being on the deck with no alt to work with.
You dont need a ton of alt to work with. You can drag and sucker just about anyone into a coalt Co E situation. I've always found that alt's of 10-15k max are best to work with in AH.
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Originally posted by DaLadyzMon
One neat trick is to set the climb speed (with the dot command [.speed xxx]) in a P-38 to 255. That seems to be a magic number that most pursuers will have a hard time following in a climb. Good luck!
Is there any way to return this to default or do you have to know what the default is and reset it manually?
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I think it resets itself after towering.
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Correct, on your next takeoff the 'alt x' speed setting does return to default.
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There is no difference between "auto climb" and "auto speed". They are both alt-X. It's just that the speed defaults to the best speed for planes to climb at for whatever plane you are in. Note that this best speed is for sea level, and may not be as effective higher up. However I've not found anything better at higher altitudes (meaning have not found any other settings/speeds that produce better ROC).
Once you change the speed with a .speed xxx command, you need to know what the default was. This is easy enough. You fly a plane often enough and you'll remember what the auto climb speed is. Example, 109s hover within 5mph of 150. 190s are about 175-185.
I have tried several planes with tolerances of +/- 10-20 mph of their default speeds, with little to no noticable difference, so as long as you're in the ballpark of the default you'll still climb well.
What I'd rather have, other than a single speed, is to have the E6B tell me what my best climbing speed would be for the alt I'm at. That would rock. They MUST have had charts/hand-held computers like that to train pilots in real life.
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Krusty,
Actually there are some big differences in climb speeds. For one, if you can climb at a pretty nice rate at a speed your plane is very maneuverable and you have more options in the event you get jumped. Wallowing along at 150 mph +/- 5 mph is an easy way to get kilt because you can't get outa yer own way, let alone some guy rolling in on you.
Climbing at a rate that is a lil less than default but gives you the ability to turn much quicker is a much better option.
Granted, if you lifted off 30 miles behind your front lines and no enemy are within 40 miles of you then its fine to go for best climb to altitude.
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Originally posted by DamnedRen
Krusty,
Actually there are some big differences in climb speeds. For one, if you can climb at a pretty nice rate at a speed your plane is very maneuverable and you have more options in the event you get jumped. Wallowing along at 150 mph +/- 5 mph is an easy way to get kilt because you can't get outa yer own way, let alone some guy rolling in on you.
Climbing at a rate that is a lil less than default but gives you the ability to turn much quicker is a much better option.
Granted, if you lifted off 30 miles behind your front lines and no enemy are within 40 miles of you then its fine to go for best climb to altitude.
Ahhhmmm, i generally have a 5 to 6K warning before i have to go evasive. Usually plenty. And a 190 closes up very fast to a Hurricane in autoclimb.
Oh and Ren, i dont understand what you mean by 'autoclimb'. The only autoclimb i know in AH is ALT X, wich actually holds plane at preset speed (ie autospeed). When´throttling back it actually makes you dive at a shallow angle to keep up speed. (Useful im Bombers for landing approach, keeps speed low and drones are happy as well). Is there another one?
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AUTO = X ( some what a level flight with maybe a slight nose up atitude pulling around 1 G )
AUTO CLIMB / AUTO SPEED = ALT X ( can override with dot command .speed xxx ) (xxx being your desired speed )
AUTO ANGLE = Shift X ( one of the least used , but is very very useful once you play around with it )
as for AUTO ClLIMB / AUTO SPEED, using a P51D as example, you much better off taking off letting the P51D get up to around 250 or 275 then setting the .speed to around 225 to 250 verses leaving it in the default autoclimb/auto speed setting..... try it sometime