Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Westy on March 21, 2001, 03:51:00 PM
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Stay tuned. Uncomfirmed but the source is in their art department.
Air Warrior may be experiencing the last chapter in a long book
-Westy
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Volcano dive on the horizon? (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
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(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/frown.gif)
NUTTZ
Originally posted by Ripsnort:
Volcano dive on the horizon? (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
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Thats too bad (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/frown.gif)
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Man the levi...flood a comin.
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Looks like AH might be my home for a little longer than I thought.
At this point, I am hearing a lot of conflicting reports. Some people say Kesmai is shut down, others say it isn't. We'll know what is happening for sure soon enough.
As CCR put it, "There's a bad moon on the rise"
J_A_B
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Too bad if true, but the bright side is more targets for us in AH. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
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Just saw a reference to: http://lum.xrgaming.net/ (http://lum.xrgaming.net/) for an news item that said Kesmai cancelled Battletech and Air Warrior 4.
// fats
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Looks like Frank "Gray Eagle" Williamson the Lead Artisi on AW-4 and Gary "Moggy" Cooper" the develooper for AW-4 were let go - and more. No other names yet. But at this point that was the core of Kesmai as far as AW goes.
No matter what reputation AW had gained in the past several years in the flight sim/game world, these guys had thier heart in the right place and I for one am sorry to have seen it happen.
I don't think they have the passion for WWII or WWII aircombat simming/gaming that HTC and CRS have so I don't give much thought to them opening up an independant studio.
About all that's left is to wait for the eulogy. From perhaps Jonathan 'Blue Baron' himself? That would be most appropriate imo.
- Westy
[This message has been edited by Westy (edited 03-22-2001).]
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Just wondering: if they want to "sink" AW completely, and will not find anyone who will buy the game - is there any chance that they'll give up the code to public, so that AW enthusiasts will have an opportunity to carry on under something like GPL?
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With respect,
Pavel Pavlov,
Commissar 25th IAP WB VVS
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A free observation, worth what you pay for it.
AW was one of the $9.95 all you can eat sims, right?
Had a huge player base for quite a while, right?
Apparently didn't make it, right?
Go figure.
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Wondering if any of that talent let go could be picked up by HTC.
I know that AH is hitech's love child, but a couple more guys on the team could help HTC blow iEN and CRS away in the long run.
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AW was one of the $9.95 all you can eat sims, right?
Not quite. AW was one of the oldest games around of the "$9.95 all you can eat" type. AW's problemwas that besides the AW3 graphics change, it just .....never changed. All the features promised for AW II never made it into AW III either. The final AW slide to this point has been in the making for over 4 years IMO when they failed to do anything with the program the last time they had a chance..
You can only rest on your laurels for so long before community innovation and veteran interest starts to wane. 'Maintenance Mode" = online death. Especially when competition arrives on the scene as WB's did, then Fighter Ace and now AH.
I've yet to see any threat of AH settling for "status quo" or heading for "maintenance mode."
-Westy
[This message has been edited by Westy (edited 03-22-2001).]
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Westy,
I agree. I, along with plenty of others around here, played AW DOS.
You are absolutely correct; it never really changed that much.
My point was that this may be the inevitable end of any $9.95 unlimited WW2 ACM game. The players continue to seek more and better "simulation" aspects as well as more and greater "realism" and "immersion" into "combined arms".
It's quite possible that at $10/player/month, a modest sum by any standard in today's world (What does it cost to feed two people at McDonald's, for example.), is insufficient to allow for continuous improvement and new features.
Of course, they may have just ridden what was once a good horse right into the ground.
In sum, maybe $10 doesn't allow enough spare cash to continually "grow" a game.
But it's also possible that they took the money and refused to reinvest in the game.
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The sad thing is, as old as AW was it didn't die of old age. EA killed it. And that isn't the only game they axed.
I don't see how pissing off as many potential customers as possible is possibly a good corporate decision.
No way a big uncaring conglomerate is going to release the code, or even the rights to the name. AW is dead. Maybe they'll make a game called AW4 eventually, but without GE, Moggy and the others it will be a soulless shell which will NEVER see so much as a penny from me.
Goodbye, old friend <sniff>.
EDIT: What the above post says is about right. They apparently gutted it for what they could, then killed it.
J_A_B
[This message has been edited by J_A_B (edited 03-22-2001).]
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Started flying AW when it was free on AOL. Joined the VMF525 there and when AOL decided to Charge $2.00/hr we moved to Gamestorm. Promises of AWIV kept us going. Then the rumors stopped and a new rumor of AWMV. Disappointment set in as AWMV came out and rumbles of moving the squad to WB or AH started. Connections to AW were only going downhill. I had found AH in the beta days and am still here. Unfortunately, the VMF525 decided to join WB as it was only $25/mo. Some still suffer connect problems.
AH is the primo sim in all areas as HTC doesn't let any part of the business be ignored.
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A kill has been recorded.
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Looked for this thread (but not in the O club) so I posted this in the GD forum:
Subject: End of an era.
More like the end of an epoch, actually.
Sad to say it, but it looks like EA is shutting down Kesmai studios. For those of you who don't know, Kesmai was the company behind the very first Massively multiplayer online sim: Air Warrior.
In fact, many of the great talents behind the current crop of MMP sims are allumni of Kesmai. And certainly a lot of players in here can trace their roots back to AW (Istarted playing DOS AW about 7 years ago)
While Kesmai isn't officially 'shut down' as of yet, they just laid off a whole slew of the 'old time' talent that had worked on AW for years. And I've been through enough mergers in my time to know this does mean the beginning of the end of Kesmai.
So, a moment of silence and a big <S>
~Lemur
p.s. Westy, if you say "I told you so" I'll hunt you down and vulch you until you cry (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
[This message has been edited by lemur (edited 03-22-2001).]
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Ultima Online 2 is down the drain too, cant say im too sad about that tough... the ones who came up with the fantasy/modern age theme for UO2 must have been living too close to the local crack house...
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AH : Maniac
WB : -nr-1-
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It's so weird to see AW talked about as one of the "cheap" games.
Last time I played it it was $6.00 an hour :-)
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Originally posted by DoKtor GonZo:
A kill has been recorded.
Bet it's the first time you've gotten wood in almost a decade...huh old timer?
As much as they pissed you off...it's still your roots man. You were, and are, as big a part of AW as anyone that ever stepped foot into HQ.
I'm a bit surprised that you're not knocking down EA's door and telling them how far your reach is as you pull their tonsils through their corporate buttocks.
They didn't kill a game...they TRIED to kill a community...a community that far exceeds Airwarrior and reaches into EVERY online flightsim today.
HT...don't ever sell to anyone...no matter what promises they make.
(hangs up his stick)
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Originally posted by Brat:
HT...don't ever sell to anyone...no matter what promises they make.
I think HiTech and company have already learned that lesson firsthand.
-- Todd/DMF/Calamari
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The roots of AH go back to AW ... via WB. So seeing AW croak isn't a happy thing. It was never "cheap" when I played either - $6/hr plus a toll call. And it was good thing the host crashed every couple of hours or I'd have never gone to the bathroom on weekends.
But, as a technologist, I have to say that it was long overdue. Not because they were inept, but because they were never given funds to turn AW into what it could be. Look how far WB went in a couple of years. Look how far AH has gone in less. And look how far AW hasn't come.
The bad news is that they're canning these people at a dreadful time in our economy. The good news is that, as they say, The Game Goes On. Grey Eagle, Moggy, and the rest will find other positions. Maybe not as fun - but good jobs seldom last. AW players will come to AH and the cycle will continue.
-DoK
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I remember,
Getting into a dust-up with GE when they went to AOL. He had just been hired and was bragging about how AW would now have the deep pockets to crush WB. Guess not, huh? (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Braz
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- is there any chance that they'll give up the code to public, so that AW enthusiasts will have an opportunity to carry on under something like GPL
LOL, maybe you should stop and think about making a game with your own code, not someone else's. We all know what you're up to.
[This message has been edited by joness (edited 03-22-2001).]
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Originally posted by Toad:
A free observation, worth what you pay for it.
AW was one of the $9.95 all you can eat sims, right?
Had a huge player base for quite a while, right?
Apparently didn't make it, right?
Go figure.
Toad
AW goes back many years and was hardly just another 9.95 all you can eat sim. AW started it all in the online flight-sim dept. I myself had a few over $300 a month credit card bills back in the early 90's. Electronic Arts decision to shut down Kesmai is truly sad, and quit honestly insulting and stupid if you ask me. It "could" be said that were it not for Air Warrior, Aces High, Warbirds, and other's would not be what they are today, if at all. This is like (at least for me) having a close family member, like Grandad, pass on.
SwampRat
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Originally posted by Moose11:
Wondering if any of that talent let go could be picked up by HTC.
I know that AH is hitech's love child, but a couple more guys on the team could help HTC blow iEN and CRS away in the long run.
Ok, probably a stupid question, but what the hell is CRS?
SwampRat
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Woops, sorry Toad. Misread your post earlier and didn't intend to lecture "one in the know"
SwampRat
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SwampRat:
Cornered Rats Studios, developer of WWIIOnLine.
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Hello Toad and fellow DoS AW's,
It truly is sad to see the old bird go (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/frown.gif). So many good memories on Aw as well as some hefty Credit Card bills (grrrrr).
Was hoping they could last it out, i guess not.
Ivan the Terrible (from AW days)
aka Norlyn
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Has there been any official news from EA about closing Kesmai, or any messages posted by Moggy, GE, or the rest to substantiate this? Right now it seems like just a very solid rumor.
-DoK
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Howdy DoK...
No...Kesmai has not been closed. The Airwarrior 4 project has been cancelled and several people were laid off (Moggy and GE being in that group). EA is spinning their wheels trying to convince everyone that they have plans to make serious improvements to the AWMV code and poor Mage and DOSE are stuck in the middle trying to make sense of it all.
Bigweek is very somber about the whole issue right now...and it seems as if people are coming out of the woodwork to show their support for the community. Except a few EA employees that took it upon themselves to come here and make some pretty nasty comments and undermine any relationship being forged for the move from Airwarrior to Aces High by a large group of now former Airwarriors.
The damage control was handled VERY poorly in the public eye...if it were not for Mage, DOSE and Quarters being in Bigweek and calming nerves after a few EA reps made the stupid mistake of stating that if it wasn't for the people at Kesmai and EA paying the bills...there would be no Airwarrior...then I fear there would be several guys wearing pocket protectors standing on the front lawn of EA headquarters and hurling burning sheep through the office windows.
I have a feeling that after all the dust has cleared...this may have a pretty positive effect on the flightsim community in finally bringing together two groups of online sim addicts that have been at each others throats for close to a decade.
Imagine the hate that will passed around as Airwarriors and Warbirds collide in the same arena after this many years...
Hello HiTech? Hold on to your shorts guys...this is gonna be one wild ride.
on a final note...picture this if you will...
next years Aces High convention...
(shudders)
[This message has been edited by Brat (edited 03-24-2001).]
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Nothign with specific details from EA itself DoK. Just confirmation from a couple of the remaining employees. What Brat says is "spot-on"
-Westy
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Doing this during at the end of the week of GDC is also pretty crappy timing. A week sooner, people could have at least brought resumes. EA hated us at Motorsims too ... some of the things they'd tell people in the pits at races about us was hilarious. So I ain't surprised by this kind of move.
As for AW and WB players in the same arena - they'll be easy to pick which is which. The WB people will be HO'ing all the time, the AW people won't. The player community itself I think will get along fine.
What I think could be more interesting is if AH does indeed capture the bulk of the AW players, how iEN will respond with WB3. If they start losing market share, will they bail or push forward?
And ... FWIW ... I did float the idea of having the AW and WB Con's co-located a couple years ago. They were both gonna be in Dallas a month apart anyway.
-DoK
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Me being one of the younger member of the AH comunity, AW was the first flight simulator I ever played. AW2 was pretty cool at the time and amazing for me. Graphics where really crap but hey (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Shame to see it die. I hope that we can pick up some of these guys. HTC will never sell AH. Because now we have a big chance to expand our player base 2 fold. I hope the AW comunity has the sense to come here instead of WB.
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Originally posted by DoKtor GonZo:
And ... FWIW ... I did float the idea of having the AW and WB Con's co-located a couple years ago. They were both gonna be in Dallas a month apart anyway.
-DoK
Heh...you still scare me.
"Yes officer...they started it...they stole our sheep and put a dress on it...so we had to get them back by driving the cattle through the convention room floor"
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The Warbirds and Aw communities did meet in battle. Over a year ago when Ah started.
Warbirds kicked aw's butt.
EYE
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Originally posted by Brazos:
I remember,
Getting into a dust-up with GE when they went to AOL. He had just been hired and was bragging about how AW would now have the deep pockets to crush WB. Guess not, huh? (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Braz
Yer memory needs serious work.
Nice try tho.
I was hired in July '95 as contractor.. went direct in September of that year.
Air Warrior for Windows went live on AOL a YEAR later.
As for havin deep pockets .. compared to what KesCo had before Newscorp bought them ..yes, they had deep pockets.
As for 'crushing' warbirds.. paying players a good enough indicator?
Or just how many were in the game each nite? The servers were FULL on AOL .. players could not get IN to play for quite awhile on any Saturday nite unless they came early and KesCo had to add servers for weeks to meet the demand.
It was more than anyone expected.
It was a fact, .. not braggin at all.
Warbirds came out when?
ROFL .. yer still an easy kill, Braz.
-GE (notes Braz hasn't changed .. ie: he was a 'healer' in EQ, askin a group he was 'healer' for why Cap died -a wizard- ..as 'healer' you have to 'heal' ..too much for Braz to grasp apparantly.. LOL)
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Originally posted by Beurling:
The Warbirds and Aw communities did meet in battle. Over a year ago when Ah started.
Warbirds kicked aw's butt.
EYE
Sorry Beuler...my mouth is already full of hooks at the moment...
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Brat there are mare than one ex aw trainers that cant pull one kill a mission here.
This is one chalenging game for most exaw's.
It takes several months to adapt for many.
The cool thing is that so many aw players now hang there hat in ah. Its pretty close to 50% of all the guys right now.
There are good players from aw here. It seems that the wb guys are often the wolves. While the ex aw guys are the sheep. Its a shame really (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/frown.gif)
EYE
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Snork!
I guess I'll have to take a survey then...
"excuse me dweeb...i'm taking a survey of all the pilots that i flew circles around in the arena today...are you from AW or WB?"
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Originally posted by Beurling:
This is one chalenging game for most exaw's.It takes several months to adapt for many...
There are good players from aw here. It seems that the wb guys are often the wolves. While the ex aw guys are the sheep. Its a shame really (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/frown.gif)
EYE
Yassir.. took me .. umm ..*two* nights ..lessee.. 6 flights? .. two assists so far? (shot a 109 up a bit but he managed to evade well enough to live .. hmm... ya .. on my 6th flight here)
By the two month mark I expect to be better than 1 kill per flight .. even goofing off in AW I could make 5 per flight, average.. for an entire 'campaign' ..and I have filled the kill buffer on more than one occasion, flying a Mustang (umm .. ya .. that was over 15 kills in a single flight for the dweebs that don't know) .. and ..in AW you cant just land, refuel, and takeoff again ..all the while having it count as the same flight.
Nice bit of score skullduggery that is (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Can't wait to see you in two months (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
-GE
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Hey GE, whats your callsign here?
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Vermillion
**MOL**, Men of Leisure
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Welcome to ah greyeagle (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) Good luck i hope you do better than most <S>.
Brat you dont need to ask who is from where.
The guys scruming on the deck and dieing are the aw guys. The guys engageing with a small alt advantage and liveing are the wb guys.
The hardest thing for ex aw players to master is the fact that a ho is at best a 50/50 chance.
The sooner they figure this out the sooner they do well in AH.
I would check out lephturns aerodrome if i was new. There are some good ideas on how to beat the aw merge blues.
EYE
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Verm: callsign here is ..
.... wait for it ..
Grayeagle (go figure)
Beurling: as a great fighter pilot once said
'fill your windscreen with the enemy' (Erich Hartmann)
As for Head Ons.. fascinating that you think that is a viable tactic in AW. Ever played AW? ROFL. Those who ever attempted it died shortly afterward, every time. It's a dweeb move and marked the pilot as clueless, an easy kill.
-GE
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My friend i played AW fr for 4 years.
The last tour i flew there i got a 5+ k/d 3.5 k/mission. As good as i was in aw it ment nothing in AH. In fact the more you say aw the more many laugh here. Aw is considered a joke (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/frown.gif)
My post was to help you or any other aw newbe here.
Honestly good luck. You will have to shed that aw ego. It wont help you very much as you learn AH. Things work differently here.
You will find out (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
EYE
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That was his point GE,
Here, it's got a 50/50 chance. Kind'a like your resume, heheh.
Cya up...Braz
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Originally posted by Beurling:
My friend i played AW fr for 4 years.
The last tour i flew there i got a 5+ k/d 3.5 k/mission. As good as i was in aw it ment nothing in AH. In fact the more you say aw the more many laugh here. Aw is considered a joke (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/frown.gif)
My post was to help you or any other aw newbe here.
Honestly good luck. You will have to shed that aw ego. It wont help you very much as you learn AH. Things work differently here.
You will find out (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
EYE
Cod,
I just crapped my flight suit....mommy I'm scared.
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Otter
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BAH HA HA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!
Headons in AW???
Points??? KD ratios??? You flew a lot of RR didn't ya?
And you're telling ME that I have an ego? ( I know I do...thank you) your post was nothing more than a pat on your own back with an explanation of "look at meeeee..and how bad i beeeeeeee"
Sit down spindlehead....if it wasn't for that "joke" you wouldn't even be here...
I believe it was you that started the chest thumping with your "Warbirds kicked aw's butt." comment...so please...save the dramatic "your attitude" lecture for someone that you think might actually care what you have to say...
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Originally posted by Dead Man Flying:
I think HiTech and company have already learned that lesson firsthand.
-- Todd/DMF/Calamari
You are kidding right?
Do you think the AH crew want to work forever? What do you think they are doing by producing a valued product and customer base? If they get the right offer, they are gone, just like you or I would do. What the next owner does with your house is no concern to you when you get your asking price. AH group seem to be a very dedicated and caring bunch and I'm sure they love their job and their product but I'd think they'd trade it in for the right $ with enough 000,000's behind it (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Hopefully no time soon
Eagler
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Any time anywhere? Just say when (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Everything i said was right on the money and your stats prove it. Shadow lol!
EYE
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If you look at the time you will see this is the time you average between your various accounts posting. Make it a d 30 i can whip you in your best plane.
EYE
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Hey Beuler...are you talking to an invisible friend or something?
You can't be talking to me...because I don't have any stats...I haven't activated an account as of yet.
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Yep thats the shadow part.
Btw everything you post or say gives you away. I have a long though not perfect memory. So i am aware who flew as brat in aw.
Ask your self what are my tactics?
Ill tell you its death by a thousand paper cuts.
I find it so funny you post then talk to yourself. I have noticed it before.
When i put that into my profile for you it says some funny things. I find you very interesting. You are something i study.
Just like badz tought me in aw about dirty tricks and 2nd account flying you teach me about the bbs. I never used the bbs in my aw days. To see the lenghths people go to to argue is beyond me. Its too funny! To set up fake personas post then repost under another name is just plain moraly wrong.
Btw the strangest thing i have ever seen is someone argue with himself to keep a thread going. I mean how well both posts were writen. Ha what bs! Even you have not taken up argueing with yourself. Hint
You cant trap a person who sees the trap.All I wanted from my first post is to say i can whip you in any fighter in the plane set. Get it?
Now please ask for proof and write me a nice disertation on how im crazy.
EYE
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See Rule #10
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Locked for violation of rule #10