Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Big G on July 25, 2005, 04:03:59 PM
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600 head on with an La7, I'm in a nikki and I loose around 150-250 rounds or thereabouts up to d200, la7 gets me with a pilot wound. I'm no fighter pilot but I was in the UK millitary for 8 years and I know how weapons work and that was not realistic for even AH standards, I don't care how good someones pilot skills are or what plane you are in, nobody could handle even 10-15% of those rounds hitting any area of an aircraft and survivng:mad:
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You know this is coming, but do you have a film?
My bet would be that only a few rounds hit and they looked like massive numbers.
I have personally hit the La-7 with 10 rounds of Hispano from a Typhoon in AH1 (they were individual pings over an extended time) and nothing happened to the La-7 because I spread them too much. The La-7 is quite tough, tougher than the P-47 maybe.
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Ok, did you film it and take a close look at where your rounds were going? Your LaLa driver may have had the best 5 seconds of his AH game and you happened to be the plane in front of him.
AH is not a game you play and win. It's a game you play and play and play..........kinda like golf.............:cool:
By the way, you can choose to avoid the HO and simply out fly him after the merge. N1K is good for that unless the LaLa decides to run away...............:)
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And it's made of wood, right?
It does seem more durable than the P47.
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Since you were in the UK military for 8 years and know how weapons work and don't care how good someone's pilot skills are or what plane they're in, you should know that missing with 150-250 rounds at d200 will not damage much of anything.
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Didn't film as I hardly film anything lol
I saw at least 15 flashes all over that lala and he still flew on as if it was nothing, sorry guys, but it just doesn't stack up, I don't normally go in for debriefing every shot or fight, but this was something else and wished I had filmed the bloody thing now.
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Hmmm...I've never thought of the La7 as being tough. Their tail and wings comes off quite easily with a solid burst of .50s.
ack-ack
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Originally posted by Stang
And it's made of wood, right?
It does seem more durable than the P47.
nah, she's all metal. A La 5 varient had wood wings I believe.
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Originally posted by Tarmac
Since you were in the UK military for 8 years and know how weapons work and don't care how good someone's pilot skills are or what plane they're in, you should know that missing with 150-250 rounds at d200 will not damage much of anything.
And I also know that 1 or 2 rounds in an exposed area will damage pretty much of anything.
Read again and tell me if you see the "600" part of my post.
Firing from 600 down to 200 my friend, not just suddenly firing at 200.
Jeez, this is getting silly, I'm discussing some online flying thing that keeps me amused from time to time, I need to get out more lol
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Secret Soviet deal with the state of Arizona during the Great War. Iron Wood..................Africa, Lignum Vieti and Ebony. Brazil, Koko Bolo...................:)
I thought they were using Birch which is pretty strong, flexable and resiliant.
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Originally posted by Big G
Read again and tell me if you see the "600" part of my post.
Firing from 600 down to 200 my friend, not just suddenly firing at 200.
Yeah, I see the 600. I was giving you the benefit of the doubt.
And in your original post, you didn't mention actually hitting anything.
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BigG, what was your convergence set to? Convergence set at D300, at 600 you are spread wide and probably hitting him on the wing tips at best. Not to mention that the Niki cannons have poor balistics. The only time you get full rounds on target is at your convergence settings. In an HO situation that is very brief. LA7 has cowl mounted cannon so convergence is not an issue for him. He gets rounds on target more consistantly than you do.
Yes, you said you saw 15 hit sprites but they were probably spread all over his airframe. You would need a lucky hit on a vital component to bring him down.
You are better off taking a snap shot at or near convergence than to spray from d600 out. (your really better off not HOing with an LA7)
I've killed LA7s from the 2 & 10 position with a 1/2 second burst at convergence.
(Did it Sat night firing through the flames of a burning hanger. He never saw me. Was cool as chit!)
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Originally posted by Ack-Ack
Hmmm...I've never thought of the La7 as being tough. Their tail and wings comes off quite easily with a solid burst of .50s.
ack-ack
ack-ack, I think your post assumes that he would actually have to pass up that HO shot and *shock* attempt to work for position on the guy's 6.
You got killed doing a HO man... I think you are gonna have to live with this one =)
Pretty soon we'll be seeing guys complaining that they dropped 14 1k bombs from 200ft onto a cv and right before they got killed they saw them all hit and never got a ship sunk message.
:D
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Originally posted by Slash27
nah, she's all metal. A La 5 varient had wood wings I believe.
La-7 had wooden fuselage and wings, except for metal wing spars.
Big G,
What you probably saw were not hits, but mostly muzzle flashes from his guns. Planes with nose mounted guns have big advantage over wing guns in HO's.
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My bad. Wasnt it metal skinned though?
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Ok lets think about that for a second.
LA7 has 3 canons in the cowling, hitting with no convergence no matter how far or close. Since you fire at him he has a straight shot as well.
N1k has 4 canons that are spread out on the wings, no matter where you have the convergence you will hit multiple points of the other aircraft, since when he closes from 600 to 200 he is only a verry short time at the convergence point, wherever it is.
Now considering that the n1k should explode and fall out of the sky while the la7 is severly hit, but you only got a pilot wound? Then both of you didnt hit verry well.
You say he got you with pilot wound, is that he killed you right away or you were wounded and frequently blacking out? Consider he had a pilot wound as well, you might not eaven have noticed.
Also front of the plane is the motor block, which is pretty solid. As well as the wings are constructed to take some hits, the ll have holes but that doesnt matter much.
Now do you know how much damage the la had, how much damage did you have?
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HOed a Typh the other day. Was a setup, so we came straight at one another from d600 we started firing. I gave him all my lil Hurri got. All eight guns blazing i unleashed my fury at him. To no avail. severly damaged at d200, i saw my little one come apart at the seams and was in tower soon after.
What really bothers me is the question of the Typh pilot soon after. 'Did you even fire???' BaWhaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa.... *sniff*sniff.
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Don't wanna be mean or anything but did a little test...
You said you went HO and opened up at about 600 yards all the way down to 200 yards if I understood it right.
Testing the Niki with a total of 250 rounds left in the 4 guns it took (62.5 rounds per gun) 8 seconds to empty all 250 rounds. It took me 30 seconds to empty all 500 rounds from the primary guns which means the rate of fire is quite low at 500 rpm/gun.
So in order to empty 250 rounds into the target from 4 guns you will need to have fired for 8 seconds solid, that's a quite long burst. Asuming you fire 150 rounds instead from all 4 guns it would take you a 4.5 second long burst instead. Still a long burst, try it your self and you'll probarly find out that one rarely fires for 4.5 seconds let alone 8 seconds. Atleast I don't... my plane only got 20mm ammo for 10 seconds
Now, firing for 8 seconds between a range from 600 down to 200 yards you fire for a distance of 400 yards. In order to be able to fire at him for 8 seconds in a HO with a total firing distance window of 400 yards you will need to have a closure rate of 50 yards per second. Asuming you both had the same airspeed you were both traveling at 25 yards per second, which is 90,000 yards per hour or 51.13 miles per hour.
Now, I doubt you were both traveling at an airspeed of 50mph each.
Firing 150 rounds instead in the same distance it would have taken 4.5 seconds. Closure speed would be 88,88 yards per second which is 44,44 yards per second each. This is roughly 90.1 mph.
In that case you both travel at 90mph true airspeed which gives you a closure rate of 180mph.
Even that seems a bit slow...
Take a fairly slow HO, say 300mph vs 300mph you both have a closure rate of 600mph that is 960 Km/h or 291 yards per second or 266 meters per second.
So, at that speed, and a window of 400 yards, you would have 1.3 seconds to aim and fire. With a total fire rate for all 4 guns combined in the Niki you have a rate of fire at about 33 rounds per second meaning that, asuming the closure rate was 600mph, you would only have time to fire away about 45 rounds.
With my hit % which is above avergae I believe of about 12% (ranked 53) I would have hit 5 out of those 45 rounds. Can't find your AH callsign as it is not the same as your BBS name but asuming average hit % of an AH pilot is 5% (I think it is actually lower then that) the total rounds hit would be 2.5.
Wing mounted cannons would have these 2.5 or 5 rounds spread out over the plane and the LA7 is as stated a tough bird. P47 since latest version is much much more rugged though. In older versions of AH they were pretty close to eachother.
Give me your Callsign please :)
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PS. The 3-Gunned LA7 empties its guns in 12 seconds. That is 150 rpg which is 750 rpm/gun or 2250 rpm/ for all guns together or 37.5 rounds per second compared to the Nikis 2000 rpm which is 33.3 rounds per second.
And as stated by others, the LA7 has them all mounted in the nose.
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"He comes streaking down the court, dazzleing footwork. Dribbleing like the demon that he is. Fakes once, twice, he's open, one last dribble, he jumps, he shoots he SCORES!
Nice 3 pointer wilbuz!
BTW in case you didn't know, to get that 12% hit percentage wilbuz has you have to sleep with the devil.
Normal % for someone in first year of AH is 1 - 3 % or less.
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Originally posted by Ghosth
BTW in case you didn't know, to get that 12% hit percentage wilbuz has you have to sleep with the devil.
What??! Wilbuz told me i had to sleep with him!
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Thrilla, well it amounts to being the same thing I think. :)
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Originally posted by Stang
And it's made of wood, right?
It does seem more durable than the P47.
The Lgay7 is very, very tough, compound that by it's 'teenie weenie' (pun intended) size and it's one of the harder planes to knock down. I fly the Typhoon alot and the lgay7 takes more 20mm Hizooka rounds to kill of any fighter including the F6F and P47 which were supposed to be famous for durability under fire. I believe there is an error in the Lgay7 with regard to it's 'hitpoints' or whatever term is used to describe its ability to sustain hits.
Zazen
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Originally posted by Wilbus
Don't wanna be mean or anything but did a little test...
Wilbus ... dang you are good (and have the patience to work thru all that) ... if more people would think along these lines ... or even brush up against the lines, there would be a lot less whining.
I have been playing for close to 4 years now, and for the life of me, I really can't understand how people get so upset over such mundane things.
Ya fediddlein' died ... you appeared back in the tower ... and HT said ... "Hey go grab another plane and try it again".
The angst that some people show due to dieing a virtual death still amazes me.
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Originally posted by Zazen13
The Lgay7 is very, very tough, compound that by it's 'teenie weenie' (pun intended) size and it's one of the harder planes to knock down. I fly the Typhoon alot and the lgay7 takes more 20mm Hizooka rounds to kill of any fighter including F6F and P47 which were supposed to be famous for durability under fire. I believe there is an error in the Lgay7 with regard to it's 'hitpoints' or whatever term is used to describe it's ability to sustain hits.
Zazen
La-7 ... lace the cockpit and shoot 'im in the eye ... BOOM !!!
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I've always found the la7 a tough little bugger too.
I actually have no idea what my hit % is like. I always unload several thousand rounds of .303 every sortie so i can't really tell. I did try flying it only attack but every now and then i forget and it's in fighter mode. I may try and give the spit 9 a tour and see how my % is.
Lately i've bene messing about with my stick settings to try eliminate nose bounce and find a decent sensitivity for my rudder.
My aim has gone a bit iffy to say the least.
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Hey guys
Looks like I opened a big can of worms here lol I don't normally give getting killed a seconds thought as I'm still learning, but this was very strange, one of those "how the hell did that happen" type gigs
Never mind, I'm still having fun, still enjoying myself and at the end of the day that's all that matters!
My plan for head on's, not to even try, duck under and roll over or just twist and turn and hopefully he'll forget about me and go after someone else lol
Cheers
Big G
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Originally posted by Zazen13
the F6F and P47 which were supposed to be famous for durability under fire.
Zazen
The P47N will take more than one hit from an Osti. I Don't recall that happening on the other P47 types.
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Originally posted by Big G
Hey guys
Looks like I opened a big can of worms here lol I don't normally give getting killed a seconds thought as I'm still learning, but this was very strange, one of those "how the hell did that happen" type gigs
Never mind, I'm still having fun, still enjoying myself and at the end of the day that's all that matters!
My plan for head on's, not to even try, duck under and roll over or just twist and turn and hopefully he'll forget about me and go after someone else lol
Cheers
Big G
Oh no you dont !!!!
If you plan on avoiding/not taking the HO ... do not, I repeat DO NOT let him go after the merge ... reverse his bellybutton and kill him with malice.
Seriously ... those that practice the art of HO (only trick in their bag) are so intent on landing the HO shot that they completely forget about what happens AFTER they blow it. I would say that about 99 times out of 100 ... (if they don't continue on a straight path) they will die within 2 turns.
Dodge the HO, and get right back in their !!!
Glad your still having fun ... keep it up ... don't sweat anything in this game and it will remain fun. As long as you pay your monthly dues ... you have unlimited lives and planes at your disposal ... what could be better.
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whatever the latest quirk is that makes hitting/killing harder is a good thing as it makes the game less gamey
one thing I liked about il2 was that the plane didn't explode after a couple of hits as it did in ah
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LOL Ghosth nice reply :D
Thrila, been day-dreaming again?
And thanks slapshot, was kind of fun actually :)
Big B, i didn't write this to attack you or anything but more as a proof to say that pilots in AH, just as in R/L have a tendency to overestimate alot of things. I think my post quite clearly shows that you overestimated ALOT of things when it came to this HO. The way it is, but as a rule, if it's not on film and clearly shows what happend/went wrong. It may very well be considered a whine.
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Originally posted by Lye-El
The P47N will take more than one hit from an Osti. I Don't recall that happening on the other P47 types.
I'm the qunitessential Osti queen, I've killed thousands of planes with Ostwind literally, I've never once seen any fighter take more than 1 hit, inlcuding the new P47N.
Zazen
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Originally posted by thrila
What??! Wilbuz told me i had to sleep with him!
hahemm ... you're confused , you are speaking of the check six drill :p
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Originally posted by Zazen13
The Lgay7 is very, very tough, compound that by it's 'teenie weenie' (pun intended) size and it's one of the harder planes to knock down. I fly the Typhoon alot and the lgay7 takes more 20mm Hizooka rounds to kill of any fighter including the F6F and P47 which were supposed to be famous for durability under fire. I believe there is an error in the Lgay7 with regard to it's 'hitpoints' or whatever term is used to describe its ability to sustain hits.
Zazen
You might want to adjust your convergence to make sure you're hitting the La7 at the convergence point. The La7 is not that tough and you certainly do not need cannons to take one down.
Last night I got jumped by two La7s while I was returning to base. It took only 3 bursts of my .50s to take them both down. I started the fight with slightly over 500 rounds. The first La7 took a 2 second burst to his engine at 600 yards which knocked the engine out. The next 2 second burst caught him slightly behind the cockpit at 400 yards which removed the tail from the rest of his plane. The next La7 only took a 2 second burst in the wing root at about 300 yards which promptly removed his wing from his plane, causing catastrophic loss of lift to his port side. When I finally touched down, I had slightly over 350 rounds.
The F6F and the P-47 on average take more rounds to take out than the La7 and at least for me, I always use my cannons with my mgs to take them out because they just seem to be a .50 cal sponge and soak up the damage. That's why I always try and aim for the cockpit/wingroot area to get a single burst kill on them.
ack-ack
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If he's going as fast as you are, your bullets will converge on him at twice your convergance distance.
So open up from further out and aim a little low.
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Originally posted by Big G
600 head on with an La7, I'm in a nikki
I stopped reading after that.
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solution: fly a G10 with 30mm's. If a fighter doesn't go down when you hit it, then you have a legitimate whine.
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Originally posted by Ack-Ack
You might want to adjust your convergence to make sure you're hitting the La7 at the convergence point. The La7 is not that tough and you certainly do not need cannons to take one down.
Last night I got jumped by two La7s while I was returning to base. It took only 3 bursts of my .50s to take them both down. I started the fight with slightly over 500 rounds. The first La7 took a 2 second burst to his engine at 600 yards which knocked the engine out. The next 2 second burst caught him slightly behind the cockpit at 400 yards which removed the tail from the rest of his plane. The next La7 only took a 2 second burst in the wing root at about 300 yards which promptly removed his wing from his plane, causing catastrophic loss of lift to his port side. When I finally touched down, I had slightly over 350 rounds.
The F6F and the P-47 on average take more rounds to take out than the La7 and at least for me, I always use my cannons with my mgs to take them out because they just seem to be a .50 cal sponge and soak up the damage. That's why I always try and aim for the cockpit/wingroot area to get a single burst kill on them.
ack-ack
Ummm, maybe, but I've probably killed 3,000 Lgay's. I go waaaaaaaay out of my way to kill lgay7's. Overall they seem to take alot more damage than any other fighter, so convergence variance should not be an issue. This means they either really do take more damage or they are so small the wing mounted guns I use are only hitting one bank at a time *whereas your nose mounted guns are all hitting). But, if this were an issue with just one bank of guns hitting I would notice the appearance of greater damage absorbtion with other small planes such as the 109, I do not, just the Lgay7.
Of course this is all very subjective, I would jsut ask that HTC look into the Lgay7's durability ratings or whatever they call it and make sure they are correct for a generally poorly made, mostly wooden plane. Other wooden planes sure don't take near the damage the Lgay7 does, it's comparable to the P47 and F6F which were all metal and designed to be extremely durable, Lgay7 was designed to be a dispoable 'pocket rocket'.
Zazen
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Oh yea, I really miss all this.............
Can't you just taste the sarcasm?
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I don't know what happened, but a good possibility is net lag. Your front end scores hits, but this gets lost in the net traffic and the other guy's computer doesn't get the message. I've shot bogies with no apparent affect only to have them pop a minute later... or not at all.
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Originally posted by Zazen13
I'm the qunitessential Osti queen, I've killed thousands of planes with Ostwind literally, I've never once seen any fighter take more than 1 hit, inlcuding the new P47N.
Zazen
Yes, I know. I don't have thousands, but hundreds in an Ostwind. I have had IL2 take up to three hits and a P47N take two. The first one set it on fire but didn't kill it. It came around for another pass and died that time.
I was going to check my kill stats to make sure but everything is coming up zeros. So that part of the BBS isn't working or I'm lying and have killed anything in anything. :D
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Originally posted by Grizzly
I don't know what happened, but a good possibility is net lag. Your front end scores hits, but this gets lost in the net traffic and the other guy's computer doesn't get the message. I've shot bogies with no apparent affect only to have them pop a minute later... or not at all.
Setting it on fire = kill. The Il2 is not a fighter, it's a bomber really, almost all bombers can take multiple hits, mossies, a20s, navy buffs like TBM etc.
Zazen
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Originally posted by Zazen13
Ummm, maybe, but I've probably killed 3,000 Lgay's. I go waaaaaaaay out of my way to kill lgay7's. Overall they seem to take alot more damage than any other fighter, so convergence variance should not be an issue. This means they either really do take more damage or they are so small the wing mounted guns I use are only hitting one bank at a time *whereas your nose mounted guns are all hitting). But, if this were an issue with just one bank of guns hitting I would notice the appearance of greater damage absorbtion with other small planes such as the 109, I do not, just the Lgay7.
Of course this is all very subjective, I would jsut ask that HTC look into the Lgay7's durability ratings or whatever they call it and make sure they are correct for a generally poorly made, mostly wooden plane. Other wooden planes sure don't take near the damage the Lgay7 does, it's comparable to the P47 and F6F which were all metal and designed to be extremely durable, Lgay7 was designed to be a dispoable 'pocket rocket'.
Zazen
*shrug* I guess I must be doing something right with my shooting or I've got the super secret explosive tipped .50 cal ammo.
But I'm sure if you were to hit a La7 at the convergence points for your 20mm, the La7 wouldn't be flying afterwards.
ack-ack