Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Axis vs Allies => Topic started by: Sabre on July 25, 2005, 04:56:32 PM
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The set up is still in development, but I can proudly announce that the new Italy terrain will be featured in this Friday's CT set up. It's a beautiful map, with some great match ups. Fly early and fly often:).
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A wop bop a loo bop a wop bam boom
Tutti frutti, oh rootie
Tutti frutti, oh rootie
Tutti frutti, oh rootie
Tutti frutti, oh rootie
Tutti frutti, oh rootie
A wop bop a loo bop a wop bam boom
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I should have the set up posted later today. I'm just awaiting review comments from the rest of the CT staff. Figure a late '43 to early '44 plane set, included numerous US, Brit, German, and Italian rides.
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Originally posted by Eskimo
A wop bop a loo bop a wop bam boom
Tutti frutti, oh rootie
Tutti frutti, oh rootie
Tutti frutti, oh rootie
Tutti frutti, oh rootie
Tutti frutti, oh rootie
A wop bop a loo bop a wop bam boom
looks like a dego joke to me .. ban this guy! :)
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Originally posted by Sabre
I should have the set up posted later today. I'm just awaiting review comments from the rest of the CT staff. Figure a late '43 to early '44 plane set, included numerous US, Brit, German, and Italian rides.
Does that include the Spit V? I mean, it belongs there. But perhaps we could sub the Seafire instead? Its almost as bad, but at least the extra weight partially nullifies the advantages of the pumped up boost.
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ooo i may pop in and have a look.
SoA the spitV should have it's +16 boost if it is included, it was cleared for it in '42 after all.
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Ok, I'm not arguing about it.
I will say though, I'm starting to see where storch gets his attitude from. Banging your head against a wall this much has to do some damage.
I'll look forward to giving the new map a try at least. to the CT team.
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So you are upset that if the spit V is included it will have it's historical engine power?
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Originally posted by thrila
So you are upset that if the spit V is included it will have it's historical engine power?
Our 16+ Spit V is only an issue if it is used (as it frequently is) in a '41 setup, I would see no issues with it being in this '43-'44 set. The old 12+ Spit V vs the 109F-4 was one of if not the best axis vs allied plane matchups. With the 16+ Spit V the 109F has no chance whatsoever without an enormous E advantage. The Spit V out turns it, out climbs it, out guns it, out accelerates it, and is only 3-5 MPH slower. If the 109G-2, 190A-5, or C.205 are in there for a '43 setup the Spit V becomes a non-issue IMO.
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Which is exactly why i was wondering why SoA has a problem with it being in a '43 setup.
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I don't see any problem with either spit in this set up as there are enough capable axis toon planes to counter the woobie tards. the problem comes in when the woobiecopter is placed against axis 1941 toon planes which are undermodelled while all the allied stuff is on steroids.
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well the 109F has '42 boost aswell.
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Originally posted by thrila
well the 109F has '42 boost aswell.
thrila do play in the CT? if not come on by sometime. will you answer an honest question? I asked the same question of slapshot on country in the MA and he derided me. why would you fly the spitV? IMHO it is so over modelled that it is a woobie ride for the short bus players and offers no challenge at all especially in a controlled environment like the CT. I'm not trying to incite a riot here I would like a sincere answer to an honest question.
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I don't see how it is over modelled, no-one has provided anything to show it is. In response to your question I don't fly the Spit V, i have no affinity for the spit V what so ever, but i do not hate it either. I fly the planes which i read about as a youngster.
I would fly the CT often but there are nearly always no players when i log in to AH. I don't get to login as often as i would like otherwise i would stay in the arena until someone else logged in.
edit: I've just seen the setup and the mossie will be present so if there are some people in the CT you will see me there.:)
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Speaking as a person that doesn't fly the SpitV regularly because of its "problems", but every time I fly it I get like 5 kills in 5 minutes without even trying, I have the following to say:
I *could* live with the boost. The boost is only part of the problem (meaning the only issues related to the BS boost is that it accelerates way too fast).
What I cannot live with is the completely fictional climb rate, the completely fictional helicopter capabilities, whereby the aircraft (as modeled currently in AH) can nose up, HANG on its prop, and STAY on its prop in such a manner as allow steady aim at a higher spiraling aircraft down to speeds around 45mph. After said speed is reached, the nose drops (stall) but the plane instantly is back to 185mph within 1.5 seconds of gravity pulling it down. At which point it can literally zoom, from being totally stalled out, past the point it had stalled just 10 seconds before.
I have films of this BS "hover until 45 all the while keeping the gunsite perfectly on the enemy" crap. I was in a Ki84, spiraling upward and kept seeing this BS happen so I filmed it. Many pilots use/abuse this capability, and no plane in real life ever could perform such blatantly unrealistic manuvers.
THAT is what I cannot live with, in regards to the spitV. I can LIVE with a different boost. Sure. But this other BS has to go.
I just use the boost as a description of the problems. The spitfires need to be JUNKED as a whole and re-coded from scratch.
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Krusty i don't understand how you can take that position when the ki84 is exactly the same.
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I really didn't want this to degenerate to these levels but the Ki84 is nowhere near the level of bravo sierra demonstrated by the spitV. I will refrain from any additional comments on this topic as it is certainly committing one or more of the sixteen deadly sins. :D
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Ki84 is one of the best planes in the game, perked or not, but it is not easy to extract its best performance.
Just so eveyone knows, I love the Spit V, and I have no idea if it is overmodeled, but what I do know without a shadow of a doubt, is that with 16+ boost the 109F (even if it is at a '42 rated boost level) is not an enjoyable match, while those two planes with the Spit V at 12+ is the best in the game. The 109G-2 has a performance edge that makes it a good match again, but in a '41 set....no G-2.
Think about it this way, dont we all hate timid high alt snore-n-bore fights that usually go nowhere until several other show up to the point you cant dodge all the snore-n-bore attempts anymore? This is what results from a 16+ Spit V and a 109F matchup, the 109F has ZERO chance unless it has a substantial advantage. This results in wide spread timidity, and a vacant CT for that week. Who wants that?
So, to sum up:
I agree the Spit V was cleared for 16+ boost in '42
I agree the 109F is also at a '42 boost rating
I think that if the next version LW planes, the 109G-2, 190A-5, or C.205 are present the Spit V is no issue
I know the 16+ boost Spit V and 109F matchup is one of the worst in the game, whereas the 12+ Spit V vs 109F was the best.
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This is why I refused to get into this argument. Because it becomes an argument.
Whether the SpitV was cleared for +16 boost in '42 or not, how many planes actually flew with it? There is no hard and fast data. There's nothing to say that any frontline units still using the SpitV in '43 (which by then were converting to the SpitIX) actually did run at +16 boost, or used the lesser rating to try to extend the life of the aircraft. I've never seen it said; if you can link me to something, or provide a book I can read on this that states clearly (even if it's only someone's opinion) that everyone jumped on this and switched the planes in service over to the higher boost, I'll be glad to change my mind. What I do know is that what I have read from pilots flying the Spits in '43 who converted to the IX during this time said the difference was "like night and day" between the two. There is little to no difference in the SpitV we have modelled and the SpitIX we have modelled. Plus, the +16 boost SpitV was in use for so little time (if it was actually used that much) it seems silly to have it here, when the +12 rating was far more common during the period of heaviest deployment for this version.
Again, this is my opinion. I dont have any hard facts either way. If someone can supply them, I'll be glad to look at it and change my mind. Whats done is done though. I'd much rather drop the whole thing and just enjoy the setup the CM team worked so hard to provide for us. Thanks again guys, the map looks great