Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Glasses on July 26, 2005, 02:11:05 AM
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HOLY Shi'ite (http://www.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/getarticle.pl5?nn20050518f2.htm)
I friggin' Told you! :D woot!
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Those crazy Japanese....that thing is a walking target. I guess its useful if you want to ford a river without getting wet. I think this would be more useful in traffic enforcement. Imagine speeding down the interstate, and you see this thing running after you in the rear view mirror.:rofl
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(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/770_1122366525_rearview.jpg)
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/770_1122367459_cop.jpg)
:lol Sorry it's late...
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clearly a photoshopped fake -- the Cop would have to lower the canopy.
Anyone else note the top speed on that thing? 1.5 km/h! woohoo!
Maybe for _parking_ tickets, okay.
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Can't a guy dream. :lol
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1.5k/h....I guess it could defend a nation against a force of....crawling toddlers?
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Yeah, you laugh now, but you just wait until you find yourself trying to outrun the sponge bullets!
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seriously though -- pretty good work there rightfoot :D
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I take it y'all aren't familiar with the concept of disruptive technology? There's plenty of precedent for a new technology entering the marketplace (in this case, bipedal locomotion) that initially costs more and performs worse then an existing technology (wheels/tank treads). As the technology develops, however, costs go down, and eventually you get to a point where the new stuff is on top. Not saying that'll happen here, but the criteria of 'it's not better right NOW' is really short sighted.
Some past examples:
Hydraulics vs. cable operated earthmovers
The first hydraulic earthmovers were attachments for tractors for ditch digging. They cost more per performance then cable operated steam shovels and dug less. But it found a niche (ditches) and developed. When the benefits (greater safety, lower maintenance, eventually better performance) showed up, the entire industry was turned on its head. In the end, not a single steam shovel company survived the transition because they were too far behind to catch up.
Same with 3.5" hard drives. The 5.25" hard drives were cheaper and faster when they came out, but what do you have in your puter now?
Bipedal locomotion may develop into something in the future. Imagine armor that could climb mountains like a goat, that'd be something useful, eh? Don't disregard it just yet.
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Originally posted by Chairboy
Bipedal locomotion may develop into something in the future. Imagine armor that could climb mountains like a goat, that'd be something useful, eh? Don't disregard it just yet.
Have you been watching too much anime or played too much of MechWarrior series? Think realistically!:rolleyes:
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Robo-Cop...That would make a hilarious reality TV shoe.
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1890:
Johan: "Goodness Oliver, imagine, if thy will, a vessel that can, upon application of motive power, propel itself through the sky!"
Olivier: "Johan, put the Jules Verne trash back where it belongs, in the rubbish bin! And get back to plowing."
1940:
Joseph: "I say, good chap, why not an aero-plane that could pierce the very veil of sound itself? That would certainly show Jerry what and what, eh?"
Oliver: "Right then, you're a bloody loony. Stop drinking before a mission, Cap' doesn't like it when you fly drunk. Let's finish the pre-flight and catch some Messerschmitts."
1980:
Joe: "Hey pukehead, this modem stuff is retarded. Think of all the great stuff we could get if all the computers were already linked together in some sort of 'internetwork'. The world's knowledge at our fingertips, and reasoned discussion with the finest minds would rule the day!"
Ollie: "Oye! Shut yer 'ole and give me that screwdriver, this ****ing phone box is ***** like a **** ****dog. Go back to your **** fantasies on your own **** time."
2005:
Chairboy: "Hey, maybe bipedal vehicles will become feasible someday and fit into some strategic niche that's not obvious right now."
Russian: "Think realistically. :rolleyes: "
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And some of you guys laughed at Mechwarriors!! It's coming true I tell you. Watch out for the rising of the clans and their safeguarding of their biological heritage. The Cave Bears are comeing watch out!!! Quiat?
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someone buys one of them bots, wont take them long to swap the sponge cannons and replace them with twin .50 cals
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When Ahrnold runs for pres he should ditch the tour bus for that thing...Would make world press coverage lol
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If Arnold Schwarzenegger runs for president, I predict he'll be in a hydrogen or bio-diesel powered campaign bus. Remember kids, you heard it here first.
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heard it takes more energy to create bio-fuel then bio-fuel can produce
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Yep, but that doesn't mean it wouldn't be a saavy political move on his part. Personally, I think running diesels off vegetable oil is great, sure wish there was a process that made it energy viable instead of just moving pollution elsewhere.
Hmm, conversation point... let's say that the energy needed for the conversion is provided by nuclear, hydro-electric, solar, wind, or other non-polluting methods. Even if it costs more 'energy' to turn the veggie matter into go-juice then you get out of it, you can still realize a drop in dependance on foreign oil without the expense of converting your entire automotive fleet to electric or whatnot.
A blue-sky 'what if' for the future...
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Science fiction has preceded real life numerous times.
In science fiction, the mechanically augmented, electronically enhanced, armored "Combat Suit" has been around for years. It would not surprise me to eventually see something like this as the technology develops. It would have many advantages such as armored mobility that is unheard of now.
Would have been handy in Tora Bora.
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speaking of "Mech"s
Does anyonme remember these games? I think they were the 1st games to appear on Windows 95
(http://www.criticalmassinteractive.com/images/Covers%20and%20Small%20Covers/Mechwarrior%202.jpg)
(http://www.criticalmassinteractive.com/images/Covers%20and%20Small%20Covers/Mechwarrior%202%20Mercenaries.jpg)
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If we're talking about mechs in general, I gotta put up a vanity link:
My Halloween costume last year
http://hallert.net/mech/mechcostume.htm
I'm sure there's at least one person out there who hasn't seen it yet.
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Originally posted by Chairboy
If Arnold Schwarzenegger runs for president, I predict he'll be in a hydrogen or bio-diesel powered campaign bus. Remember kids, you heard it here first.
If Arnold runs for president, they will have changed the Constitution to allow foreign-born citizens to BE President. Check the constitution, Article II, section 1, clause 5.
You kids ever study government in high school anymore?
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Rshubert, we all know about that. Hence the 'if'. If you flex that search button muscle, you'll find that there have been conversations about whether we'll see an amendment to allow foreign born to run.
Thanks for contributing, though.
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Bah. Heinlen wrote sci-fi stories with powered body armor suits with built in rocket packs and powered jumping capability (as well as weapons IIRC) back in the 50s. All the rest is just built on his concept. :)
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Originally posted by StarOfAfrica2
Bah. Heinlen wrote sci-fi stories with powered body armor suits with built in rocket packs and powered jumping capability (as well as weapons IIRC) back in the 50s. All the rest is just built on his concept. :)
It's kinda funny now but back in the 80's Starship Troopers was on the Army Command and General Staff College reading listings. Not a mandatory selection but included in the possibles listing. I enjoyed it.
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Originally posted by rshubert
If Arnold runs for president, they will have changed the Constitution to allow foreign-born citizens to BE President. Check the constitution, Article II, section 1, clause 5.
You kids ever study government in high school anymore?
I will have also have moved to Canada at this point.
As for the original topic of this thread - when are they coming out with the AT-AT?
(http://www.theforce.net/swtc/Pix/cards/wide/rotj099.jpg)
:rofl
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Ahh...MechWarriors...isn't that another game EA killed around the same time they killed AW? I remember it on GameStorm.
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Originally posted by AdmRose
I will have also have moved to Canada at this point.
As for the original topic of this thread - when are they coming out with the AT-AT?
(http://www.theforce.net/swtc/Pix/cards/wide/rotj099.jpg)
:rofl
Sorry my friend, that is an AT-ST.
The AT-AT is a wee bit bigger.
And I'm a dork.
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Think they would come out with the AT-PT first.
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Originally posted by AdmRose
I will have also have moved to Canada at this point.
As for the original topic of this thread - when are they coming out with the AT-AT?
(http://www.theforce.net/swtc/Pix/cards/wide/rotj099.jpg)
:rofl
That's an AT-ST (All Terrain Scout Transport) The AT-AT (All Terrain Attack Transport) was the larger 4-legged one first seen in the battle for Hoth
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Originally posted by Chairboy
If we're talking about mechs in general, I gotta put up a vanity link:
My Halloween costume last year
http://hallert.net/mech/mechcostume.htm
I'm sure there's at least one person out there who hasn't seen it yet.
Wow.. That thing is fugging cool. I will certainly be copying that one some day. BTW do you have any further updates? I've got some suggestions for the weapons that you might like.
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Heh, thanks. I'm not sure if I'm going to wear it again this year, it depends on whether I get off my bellybutton and build another costume.
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I dont remember Mechwarrior being on Gamestorm.. It was on Gamespy.. 8)
I do remember Alien though.. lmao Great game it was!
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Originally posted by RightF00T
Ahh...MechWarriors...isn't that another game EA killed around the same time they killed AW? I remember it on GameStorm.
MechWarrior was the original RPG by FASA. Battletech was the board game version. There are some old rpg's out there for it from the 386 days. Then Mechwarrior 2 came out... I almost wanna say it was Activision & not EA. Eventually FASA went under and Microsoft bought up the video game rights, while Wizkids bought up the board game rights.
Ironically, Microsoft actually did make the series better as far as the PC games goes. MW4 was pretty good, it came a very long way since Mechwarrior2's NetMech multiplayer. I gotta say though, the XBOX version.. hate it. Loses the feel of what battletech is supposed to be... gotta have more buttons!
For the best Battletech experience, you have to make it to a Dave & Busters. They have simulator pods, usually in setups of 8-10 pods. Stick, throttle, pedals, main view screen, seperate radar & damage screen, and 7 more screens for weapons, reactor, and coolant. Various "realism" settings too, lets you get more performance out of your guns & 'mech.
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Kesmai produced "Multiplayer BattleTech" and hosted it on Gamestorm.
Mechwarrior was a totally different game, different company.
IIRC Kesmai paid to use the BattleTech name, it was a registered trademark of FASA.
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Originally posted by StarOfAfrica2
Kesmai produced "Multiplayer BattleTech" and hosted it on Gamestorm.
Mechwarrior was a totally different game, different company.
IIRC Kesmai paid to use the BattleTech name, it was a registered trademark of FASA.
I remember seeing it, never got to play it though :(
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Originally posted by StarOfAfrica2
Kesmai produced "Multiplayer BattleTech" and hosted it on Gamestorm.
Mechwarrior was a totally different game, different company.
IIRC Kesmai paid to use the BattleTech name, it was a registered trademark of FASA.
Actually Kesmai ran the game Multi-Player Battle Tech via services like GEnie, Compuserver etc, along with AW and some others. They were strictly online games only (pay by the hour). There were stand alone versions of MPBT IIRC it was named MechWarrior but had no online play. The game transitioned to EGA MPBT Solaris which I think was run on GameStorm. Then EA bought the rights to the online ver, produced MPBT:3025 and promptly killed it. MW2 thru Mercs has supported online play but in a limited fashion, think the max players per server is 24. The MW community is still alive and kicking tho. MekTek (http://www.mektek.net ) is still adding mods to the game for free along with NBT. Unfortunately when MS bought the rights they shifted their focus to the XBox ver(s) where more money is to be had. Sad to see a title with a long history go by the way side.
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Well...
When you guys are busy duking it out over who's the baddest in the air. I think i'll step up and walk around the base to wait for ya to land.
(http://www.mektek.net/modules/Gallery/gallery/battletech/tw_bd_wood.jpg)
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wolf which game is that? :eek:
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Sweet Madcat wolf!
MW4's "new engine" sucked and continues to suck ass. Anyone prefer MW3 over 4?
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I prefer MW3 since its actually more along the lines of a sim. That was a rendering Gunny.
Wolf
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lol the mech doenst even raise its feet. It just shuffels along. Does something that needs wheels on its feet to work count as a mech or the most ineficient car ever made?
watch the video.
32million yen? (http://www.sakakibara-kikai.co.jp/products/other/LW.htm)
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LOL.. this mech can be stopped by a simple pot-hole... great combat unit :)
Ever tried to roller-blade down hill and turn without bending your knees... I'd hate to be in that thing if it fell over...:eek:
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I know my post was an AT-ST, I was just using that picture since it looked like the one at the beginning of the thread. I was asking when they were going to come out with the AT-AT, I know that wasn't an AT-AT.
I'm going to find a life now.
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Originally posted by Midnight
LOL.. this mech can be stopped by a simple pot-hole... great combat unit :)
This may be a shocker... but the first treaded test vehicles that eventually led to the 'Tank' we know today... they weren't terribly great either as 'combat units'.
It's called R&D.
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Eh well, we'll have to see a quantum leap in power generation before something on the scale of the MC ever gets built.
But one can dream...
Wolf
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Well, I do believe that the Terminator had a nuclear engine running him.
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See the Japanese will unleash their SDF Macross soon!
DARPA better get its act together! this will be the 21st century infantry fighting vehicle mark my mother trucking words!
Oh my friggin lords it walks! ahahahah!
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Anybody noticed this thing cannot walk?
It moves like a guy on ski, or those little plastic robots from the early 80's :p
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chairboy has a point guys... Look how people all laughed at those guys who knew the best way to achieve flight was to either strap on wings and flap em with muscle power or to simply have an engine (preferably steam)do it for you.
The things we learned from those inovators is legion.
lazs
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I told Wilbur, an then I tole Orville, 'n now I'm tellin you..
..that damn thing will never get off the ground.
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Good to see they are starting to catch up.
(http://www.cyberus.ca/~gwalls/images/Ravager.jpg)
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Really should've been a Mad Cat instead of that abomination for a Mech.
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The idea on battlefield is to be concealed and covered. Guess what happens when that 10 meter tall thing walks out of the cover. It will be taken out in few seconds. Trying to compare ‘mech’ to a tank is ridicules since tank actually had a purpose. They took tractor, added armor to it and it became a monster. Nothing could stop it initially. Now how much armor can you add to mech so it can actually be protected…and (this is important) not to sink into the ground! As I said before, keep dreaming. Mech are nice for anime or sci-fi games, but have some realistic outlook on the world.
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Mmmm Mechwarrior 2, I used to play it on a VFX-1 VR Headset, throttle and stick for walking control, VR Headset for headtracking based aiming. I played multiplayer a few times, I creamed the other guys so badly they refused to play with me, the ability aim with the mark 1 eyeball so accurately was devastating.
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Originally posted by lazs2
chairboy has a point guys... Look how people all laughed at those guys who knew the best way to achieve flight was to either strap on wings and flap em with muscle power or to simply have an engine (preferably steam)do it for you.
The things we learned from those inovators is legion.
lazs
Come on now, you can't be serious. That goofy thing is a novelty at best and will never be anything more. The real future of battle-mechs will derive from the ASIMO which can already walk, run, climb stairs, pick up things, etc. etc. I can see a human sized ASIMO being built within ten years and then given the ability to have weapons attached or to be able to use existing hand-held weapons. If the ASIMO technology continues to improve, I would think the design would be scalable in size (to a point) to allow a unit to be several times larger than a human.
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Midnight, nobody is saying that the design featured in this article is a combat ready device. It's just one step in a long walk that may end with something that adds a new dimension to mechanized assault. I apologize if that hasn't been made clear enough in previous posts.
An ASIMO derived suit is a perfectly reasonable outcome of this research. Keep in mind that there's room enough in innovation for different companies to make advancements that others adopt, as the auto industry proves.
Are you suggesting that there can only be one company that does all of the R&D? If so, I'd have to disagree.
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It just skates along at 1.5mph or whatever, Chairboy... like a large scale replica of a plastic power rangers robot, that's what they mean.
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Compare, if you will, a 1905 Holt Tractor (http://www.firstworldwar.com/atoz/holttractor.htm) to an M1A2 or Leopard tank.
Based on the combat effectiveness of the Holt tractor, it's obvious to anyone that the entire idea of caterpillar style combat vehicles is ridiculous, right?
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I know.
I think it's hard to consider this any development when it might as well be a mimic of some plastic toy that's been around forever.
It sidesteps the problem of balance, which seems to be the biggest barrier to proper bipedal motor coordination.
Kind of like if Star Wars IV blew your mind back in the day, because R2D2 moved around on what seemed like 3 feet.
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Go Chairboy go Chairboy go go go go :D
I think within our lifetime(mine at least I dunno about you old folks) I might see Mechs walking the streets.
Me thinks the next revolution will come in the robotics area, and it's already starting in a couple of years you will go oh my friggin lord , to the kinds of things that will come down the pipeline and this is just the first evoltionary step in Bi-pedal tanks.
The technology just needs to be developed and engineered so that these "things" will be looked upon in a favorable manner.
Just like the airplane and the tank, there were benign uses for this kind of technology in the beggining , and then the technology progressed mainly due to influence by visionaries who foresaw how would this technologies would be best used either in the battlefield or in the civilian world.
It's only a matter of time beotcheS!
Before......THE SUPER DIMENSIONAL FORTRESS MACROSS!
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Personally, while anime is focused on mech use in warfare, it seems to me that we're more likely to see the technology developed for increasing mobility to disabled people, at least in the short term.
I'd also like to see Caterpillar release their payload ammo loader/heavy lifter (as seen in Aliens) someday. :D
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that's the first thing I thought when I read "mobility to disabled people" :D
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Chairboy, it's kind of like what moot said... that thing is just a larger scale version of a kid's toy. There's really no innovation in it other than it's much larger.
The ASIMO on the other hand shows real innovation towards a usable product.
The tractor to tank comparison is OK, but only if the ASIMO didn't exist.
I guess it's possible for that Mech to get ASIMO technology to make it actually walk and run... Well.. then it would be cool :)
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ASIMO can do it.
DARPA a few years ago (2000 or so) had a a design contest webpage up, asking for basically this exoskeleton type of thing, so it's definitely in the skunkwerks..
Seeing that university and other private research are already to the point of barely stable, autonomous designs, I'd say DARPA or other bottomless fund organisations are at least a few steps ahead of this.
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Originally posted by Midnight
Chairboy, it's kind of like what moot said... that thing is just a larger scale version of a kid's toy. There's really no innovation in it other than it's much larger.
I've just reviewed my posts in this subject, and I'm not sure where you get the impression that I'm praising this as the end-all answer to mechanized bipedal locomotion.
Quite the contrary, all I've been saying is that I think mechanized bipedal tech has a future, most of the arguments have been limited to people saying 'no it don't' and me politely disagreeing.
This thing just shuffles along (like I mentioned in an earlier message today), and is hardly ground breaking, it's just a neat conversation starter.
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If you goto the Broad Agency Announcement page at http://www.fedbizopps.gov you'll find several BAA's on the matter. Like it or not, the stuff IS being developed.
Wolf
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Chairboy
I don't mean to imply that you were implying that that thing is the end-all-be-all. I just meant that thing is not a unit that qualifies as a technology base to be built upon. It is a good conversation starter, and due to the popularity of Mechs, it has a cool factor too, but that's about it, I think.