Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Furball on July 28, 2005, 04:45:38 PM
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Not a feedback or request... more of a statement but i see no statement parts to this bbs so this is the next best thing.
i hate it.
thank you that is all. :)
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It's more for show really since it never does enough damage to kill you. At least, it has never happened to me nor have I heard it happening to anybody else.
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I get killed by puffy ack repeatedly. Usually about once every two hours. You have to be able to survive for extended periods of time near an enemy field, you see.
Also, why does the puffy seem to follow me no matter how far I go away from the field despite many closer targets for it to shoot at? What did I ever do to the AI that controls this thing?
Shooting without line of sight isn't cool, either.
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Originally posted by pellik
I get killed by puffy ack repeatedly. Usually about once every two hours. You have to be able to survive for extended periods of time near an enemy field, you see.
Also, why does the puffy seem to follow me no matter how far I go away from the field despite many closer targets for it to shoot at? What did I ever do to the AI that controls this thing?
Shooting without line of sight isn't cool, either.
I never really got hit by the AI puffy ack until I started flying the PJ about a week ago. Maybe it goes after the biggest target? :confused:
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my motivation to post this was as follows:-
zooming along at about 420mph on deck, clear megadud's 6, pull up into a shallow climb, as soon as i am above 3k, first salvo, engine out.
bye bye tempest, bye bye 9 kills.
I may be wrong but wouldnt a 350mph or so climbing single engined fighter about 3+ miles from the ack, with many other aircraft nearer to the cv/airfield, be pretty impossible to hit?
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The AI ack-ack problem is very well known, since the first AH1 beta version during 1999.
Sometimes it follows you no matter what you do, where you are and no matter if there are nearer and better targets. Below 3K the CV stop firing at you. Often 5K slow level bomber raids on CV get through without damage. Sometimes it gets you at 20K, at 350mph+, while changing altitude and/or maneuvering ....
I guess the AI ack-ack routine is tough to reprogram or they have no time to do it.
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Oh the best story about AI ack happened to me. Low on fuel and ammo I head East from A38 on the Mindy Map. To try to avoid dectection from enemy airplanes, I fly low through the canyons East of A38 (A38 is the 7k base in the SE corner of the map). So that puts me below and behind the mountain plateau that A38 sits upon. WTF? I'm taking AI puffy ack hits. About 30 seconds later, bam, engine gone. Somehow it fires through mountains and below. LAME!!!!!!!!!!
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I had a similar problem. driving a panzer up to a radar factory (forget which map), it's a good 3k climb up the side of a mountain. Im grinding along in 1st gear climbing up and puffy ack starts goin off all around me. the nearest base is almost a sector away where i spawned. no enemy bases within 50 miles. the factory was shooting me with puffy ack through the mountain i was climbing. no line of sight, no way to even arc a shot to hit me. after about 14 direct hits, i finally blow after climbing for so long. I was frusterated and logged at the stupidity of it all.
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Originally posted by Furball
my motivation to post this was as follows:-
zooming along at about 420mph on deck, clear megadud's 6, pull up into a shallow climb, as soon as i am above 3k, first salvo, engine out.
bye bye tempest, bye bye 9 kills.
I may be wrong but wouldnt a 350mph or so climbing single engined fighter about 3+ miles from the ack, with many other aircraft nearer to the cv/airfield, be pretty impossible to hit?
This is why you got hit. HT said that there is a box around the plane and the puffy ack hits randomly around you in that box. That means that statisticaly, the safest place to be is in your plane flying strait and at a constand slow speed. Any kind of movement and your chances of being hit increase. Another way to die in this game that models things acuratly is to follow the bud guy through your friendly ack. Again, puff will shoot randomly around him increasing the chances of you getting hit, and believe me you will.
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dedalas: You are completly incorect in your assesment.
HiTech
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If i remember rightly it takes into account acceleration/deceleration, along with speed. which means, theoretically, that turning does have a slight impact on your chances of getting nailed from 20 miles away.
slower = smaller box the ack shoots into
faster = bigger box
This game would be improved if puffy ack was far less effective versus fighters, and far more effective vs bomber formations - as it was historically.
This isnt a major whine, although it is infuriating when AI puffy ack kills you like this when you are only trying to have fun.
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thank you btw furball for clearing my 6. I got killed by puffy ack the other day and it was terrible. The cv wasn't even close. I nly had 2 kills and a spit but it's the point. I was otd and flying straight and level and i was near my base. I just don't understand :confused: :confused: :confused:
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Originally posted by hitech
dedalas: You are completly incorect in your assesment.
HiTech
O/T:-
HT, i just emailed a real video clip to the support@hitechcreations.com account that i thought you might find useful - i think you had some discussions with the community about it. Check it out.
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should be more puffy aa, especially at the cities and factories.
want to see it like in the old bomber raid movies, with a sea of black puffs.
puffy aa pretty much useless in this game unless your fly in a straight line for 20 miles and at 120knts.
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Got a proxy kill for someone who died to puffy last night after I stalled after killing someone. Wasn't too bad of a deal in my opinion. Heck puffy even gave me an A/C hole in FSO one night, I say more MORE!
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I do not want it taken away, I just want it changed because atm it is historically BS. (with all respect to HTC)
I would like it to actually have an effect on bombers who are intent on destroying a base, instead of the current method where the only effect is on people in fighters.
Maybe a solution using the current box method would be to make the flak very innaccurate on a target changing course. A target that is flying straight and level should get innaccurate fire on the first bursts, but the longer the target continues straight and level, the more accurate the flak gets as the ack box around the target gets smaller. So if you fly straight and level over a target area for 10 - 20 seconds or so, there is a good chance you will be hit.
That may then have an effect on bombers who are on bomb run, and pork people. Leaving the ones who enjoy fighting to have fun.
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Well then....can we make it so the 5 inch gunners have to set the fuses on their shells too? For historical accuracy of course.
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The navy had proximity fuses on their flak guns. So it is infact historical.
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Originally posted by hitech
dedalas: You are completly incorect in your assesment.
HiTech
What part. The part about the random hits in the box around the plane that you told me about, or about where the safest place to be is?
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think he means safest place. iirc when he explained how it works, is the size of the hit box depends on your speed and acceleration/deceleration. So going slow will make you an easier target...... unless of course you happen to be in a 4 engine bomber formation... ;) :D
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Originally posted by Furball
think he means safest place. iirc when he explained how it works, is the size of the hit box depends on your speed and acceleration/deceleration. So going slow will make you an easier target...... unless of course you happen to be in a 4 engine bomber formation... ;) :D
Well, random is random. If you are in a box and people fire randomly shots around you, chances are they will miss. Meaning, the shot fired was not ment for you. If you move however, you increase the chances of meeting the shot. If it is not safer to stay put, then it is atlist as safe. Unless, they are not firing complety randomly. This is just a typical responce from him with no details on how it works. Just a general you are wrong. The insults should follow soon.
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the random shots fall into a virtual box around the aircraft
the faster you are moving, the bigger this virtual box extends around the a/c
so the faster you are going = bigger the box = the less chance you will be hit
at least, that was my understanding on how it works.
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If you move however, you increase the chances of meeting the shot
This is totaly incorect even if the size of the box was not altered.
Basic probabily theory.
The chances of getting hit remain the same no mater where you are in the box, I.E. manuvering would neather raise nor lower your chances.
Now as a real note, you are always at the center of the box no mater if you manuver or not, the box is realy just a way of describing what is going on.
But as stated before manuvering or changing speed do increase the size of the box, there by lowering your chances of getting hit when turning or going faster.
And now for the insult:
Ive explained it before (furball understood how it worked correctly) , you obviously have read it (but didn't understand it, nor basic probabilty ) , It is realy is not my job to teach you how things work. But when you make completly inacurate statments I let you know they are incorect so other people will not belive incorect facts.
And finaly letting you in on the way things work (like ack) is not a right on your part. Infact you have crossed the line when you personaly attacked me with.
This is just a typical responce from him with no details on how it works. Just a general you are wrong. The insults should follow soon.
And I would apreciate an apology.
HiTech
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Originally posted by hitech
This is totaly incorect even if the size of the box was not altered.
Basic probabily theory.
The chances of getting hit remain the same no mater where you are in the box, I.E. manuvering would neather raise nor lower your chances.
Now as a real note, you are always at the center of the box no mater if you manuver or not, the box is realy just a way of describing what is going on.
But as stated before manuvering or changing speed do increase the size of the box, there by lowering your chances of getting hit when turning or going faster.
And now for the insult:
Ive explained it before (furball understood how it worked correctly) , you obviously have read it (but didn't understand it, nor basic probabilty ) , It is realy is not my job to teach you how things work. But when you make completly inacurate statments I let you know they are incorect so other people will not belive incorect facts.
And finaly letting you in on the way things work (like ack) is not a right on your part. Infact you have crossed the line when you personaly attacked me with.
And I would apreciate an apology.
HiTech
Not exactly sure what I did not understand about the way it works. My statement is accurate based on my 'little' knowledge of probability. Letting people know how the game they pay for works is not really that bad :D
I was really not trying to personaly attack you so I appologize if it came out that way. As far as crossing the line, well, what line is that? You do reply that way a lot when you don't agree with a post (and this is not an attack, just an observation). I would also apreciate an appology for the times you personally attacked me in the past :lol
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Dedalos: You switched the discusion from how boxes work to your opion of my behavior. That becomes a personal attack.
As to the other, Im giving up trying to explain it to you other than stating if 1 shell is fired in a 10x10x10 box randomly every 1 sec.
Where you are in that box has no effect on the chances of getting hit.
HiTech
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Originally posted by hitech
Dedalos: You switched the discusion from how boxes work to your opion of my behavior. That becomes a personal attack.
Appologies for that. It was not meant that way.
As to the other, Im giving up trying to explain it to you other than stating if 1 shell is fired in a 10x10x10 box randomly every 1 sec.
Where you are in that box has no effect on the chances of getting hit.
HiTech [/B]
We are in total agreement there. All I said is that by changing places, you increase the chances of geting in the box where the the shell is going to (the assumption is that chances are, the shell was not heading for you to begin with). You can try it yourself too (yes, I know you don;t have time). I have never (as far as I can remember) been hit by puff flying slow and straight. It is always when I am on someones tail (friendly puff hit) or if I am going fast or changing directions.
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Originally posted by dedalos
If you move however, you increase the chances of meeting the shot.
I think this is where your misunderstanding is.
You are thinking that the aircraft is moving around inside the box, whereas the box remains constant around the aircraft no matter what it is doing, with the aircraft in the middle, the size of this box is determined by the speed / change in speed.
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Originally posted by Furball
I think this is where your misunderstanding is.
You are thinking that the aircraft is moving around inside the box, whereas the box remains constant around the aircraft no matter what it is doing, with the aircraft in the middle, the size of this box is determined by the speed / change in speed.
Did not think of it that way. I guess it deppends on when the location of the hit is calculated. If it is not when the guns fire and it is just random explosions in the box then you guys are right. If the location is calculated when the guns fire then changing direction should make a difference.
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from the discussion in the last thread, from what i gathered the shells have nothing to do with where they are being fired from. they just appear in this box. the shots appear instantaneously so maneuvering has no effect at all (apart from the speed loss)
one of my suggestions in the other thread was to put in a time delay: -
so it would be distance from ack gun = time variable from location calculation to where the shells explode.
so for example, an aircraft flying near a gun 5 miles away, the shells that explode near it would have been calculated 5 seconds ago. if the aircraft turns in that 5 seconds the shells would land where it would have been - not where it is.
but i dont think that could be coded.
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Originally posted by Furball
from the discussion in the last thread, from what i gathered the shells have nothing to do with where they are being fired from. they just appear in this box. the shots appear instantaneously so maneuvering has no effect at all (apart from the speed loss)
one of my suggestions in the other thread was to put in a time delay: -
so it would be distance from ack gun = time variable from location calculation to where the shells explode.
so for example, an aircraft flying near a gun 5 miles away, the shells that explode near it would have been calculated 5 seconds ago. if the aircraft turns in that 5 seconds the shells would land where it would have been - not where it is.
but i dont think that could be coded.
In that case I am wrong. I was thinking that the location was calculated when the guns fired.
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http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=124842
check this thread out dedalos, this is how i understand it
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Thanks HT, for the explanation. I suspected manevering helped, but wasn't sure:
"But as stated before manuvering or changing speed do increase the size of the box, there by lowering your chances of getting hit when turning or going faster. "
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Got killed by Puffy ack the other night. It wa the first time in about 6 months that it got me. Thats also about how often it gets me. I never fly evasives to avoid it. I used to look out the window to admire it but since its gone from ack that looked like real ack to ack where each round looks like a unrealistic perfectly round cotton ball I dont even bother doing that anymore.
Dont know how you guys manage to get hit by it so often.
Personally I think it should become more accurate the more planes are in the area. Meaning the larger the number of aircraft in range of ack. the more accurate the puffy ack should become andf thus larger the likely hood some will be lost to it.
This would help in at least a small way against the Horde.
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Originally posted by Furball
an aircraft flying near a gun 5 miles away, the shells that explode near it would have been calculated 5 seconds ago. if the aircraft turns in that 5 seconds the shells would land where it would have been - not where it is.
but i dont think that could be coded.
That is the problem and that's why our puffy ack is so lame/gamey/unfair.
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Forget it HiTech, Just model 20 SA3 SAM's on each boat.
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Originally posted by hitech
Dedalos: You switched the discusion from how boxes work to your opion of my behavior. That becomes a personal attack.
As to the other, Im giving up trying to explain it to you other than stating if 1 shell is fired in a 10x10x10 box randomly every 1 sec.
Where you are in that box has no effect on the chances of getting hit.
HiTech
Depend of the unit of the 10*10*10 box I guess it's yard ?
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This is totaly incorect even if the size of the box was not altered.
Basic probabily theory.
The chances of getting hit remain the same no mater where you are in the box, I.E. manuvering would neather raise nor lower your chances.
Now as a real note, you are always at the center of the box no mater if you manuver or not, the box is realy just a way of describing what is going on.
But as stated before manuvering or changing speed do increase the size of the box, there by lowering your chances of getting hit when turning or going faster.
And now for the insult:
Ive explained it before (furball understood how it worked correctly) , you obviously have read it (but didn't understand it, nor basic probabilty ) , It is realy is not my job to teach you how things work. But when you make completly inacurate statments I let you know they are incorect so other people will not belive incorect facts.
And finaly letting you in on the way things work (like ack) is not a right on your part. Infact you have crossed the line when you personaly attacked me with.
And I would apreciate an apology.
HiTech
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wow... old thread :)
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I inadvertently bumped it while looking for some info after a search.
Sorry Skuzzy.
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Dedalos: You switched the discusion from how boxes work to your opion of my behavior. That becomes a personal attack.
As to the other, Im giving up trying to explain it to you other than stating if 1 shell is fired in a 10x10x10 box randomly every 1 sec.
Where you are in that box has no effect on the chances of getting hit.
HiTech
Yes but shouldn't the box get bigger as the distince to the target increases? Wouldn't that more accurately model shooter inaccuracies?