Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: sullie363 on July 28, 2005, 10:45:43 PM
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From what I understand ToD will involve players building up their stats in a much more involved way than in the MA. It is also rather undesirable to get killed.
If this is the way ToD will be then I predict one of two things happening. One, people will tend to avoid fights unless victory is rather certain. From what we know from the MA, this would be annoying and boring. Or two, you have your group of die hard pilots dead set on building up their pilot and then those who will HO all the time greatly annoying the first group. Either one of these things would cause it to be unpopular in the long run. Or it will all work out great.
Obviously this is working from speculation and I'm making big guesses. Basically I'm just hoping that ToD won't become a massive waste of time. Time which could of been spent developing new aircraft and gameplay for the good old MA. I'm happy with the MA right now and am kept happy by simply getting new aircraft at a reasonable rate. I don't know if I will like or dislike what ToD has to offer. Hurry up and wait I suppose.
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In TOD I hope I ONLY run into players who HO, they give away so much advantage at the first pass, and they only have a chance of hitting if you fly right at them.
I think that in TOD where dying will have more of a penalty than the MA, a lot of players will find that HO shots are not the best solution.
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Of course it could fail, as is the case with any project.
That said HiTech and Pyro have both given examples as to mechanism they think will address some of your points.
1) It is not required to shoot down any fighters to have a successful mission. If you are there to escort the bombers and the 109s all run then you win with out ever firing and you gain points.
If the 109s play it that safe, they lose and chalk up a loss. In order to win they have to stop some number of bombers or some such. Likewise if the 51s shoot down gobs of 109s but the bombers still get stopped or hurt bad enough that is a loss for the Americans and a win for the Germans.
2) Player peer review where a pilot who always plays it safe and lets his fellows die for his personal glory can be failed by those same fellows.
I am sure I forge some too and that they have ideas they have not related to us.
I'll wait and see myself.
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Sounds like you haven't kept up on what has discussed in regards to ToD.
Just to add what Karnak has said...
Players don't build 'stats' by avoiding each other. Each side is tasked with a specific mission. How the 'mission' turns out determines who gets the 'stats'... i.e. 'points'.
It is certainly possible that on some missions your group may or may not have 'killed' an enemy. Have you ever heard the term 'mission kill'? The goal being to kill the mission. This may or may not include the destruction of the enemy in the air. It may mean defending a given point or escorting / protecting a group of bombers. One side may decide that a 'mission victory' isn't possible and turn back or be forced back in the face of an overwhelming enemy.
Unlike the AH main or most of the other AH events each sortie wont necessarily be a fight to the death.
The trick that HT and crew need to come up with is balancing the the 'want of combat' with some sort of reality based 'mission' types.
If folks are just flying around avoiding each other or if the missions are long and boring then no one will want to play.
If each sortie is nothing more then a 'duel to death' then only a very few (last man/men standing) will get the 'stats'. For the new guy or average player there will be very little incentive to play if they are killed by 'experten' every sortie.
Cohesive unit fighting, or 'teamwork' can make up for the lack of overall individual skill. You will be flying with a team. How your team works together should prove who gets the 'stats' when the mission ends.
I will add that the teamwork thing can sometimes mean 'do as I say'. No one wants to be in a mission with some little Napoleon belching out rediculous orders.
Folks want to have fun. ToD can and will fail if its 'not fun'.
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people will still fly in MA a majority of the time to hone their skills, in a way MA, with its open plane set is like the mock battles the airforce used to set up to train pilots.
TOD will be more live action and will involve more cunning, not just showing who has the fancy stick skills. Staying alive and keeping your wingmen alive is really exilerating for some of us, just the thought that someone could pounce you any moment will keep me on edge and the ol heart pumping. Taking someone down in a realistic situation is much more rewarding than just being thrown into a furbal again and again and again.
Its the old argument of game vs simulation, irl challenging a buddy to a dual and chasing tails was a game, naturaly that would work well in a pc game. {MA angle}
there's nothing like the real thing, and unfortunately its really hard to get just a part of the real thing in a pc sim, and even trying to sell the idea can result in eye rolling, but even if it works just a bit it can be really fun. {TOD angle}
When you get tired of "training" in MA head to TOD for "the real thing" when "the real thing" gets too tiring, presuring or plain boring, head to MA.
at least thats the rational im hoping TOD will offer.
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And you must remember that bailing is not a death. Bailed succesfully doesnt send you back to training.
At least it should be that way.
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I will probably like anything that makes playing closer to what it's like in a scenario. However, it will always be nice to have an arena where you can just jump in and get right into the action, too, for practice and for those days when you don't have much time to fly or just want a quick fight.
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I don' t know, I'm still pretty skeptical about what I've heard about TOD. I'm gonna wait till they update the website with the TOD info before I swing my decision one way or another, but I can see it being filled with timid flyers, and the number of "ace" pilots diminishing because it takes too long to get involved in a fight. If you get penalized for dying and can't up till the scenario is over, then timid will be the way of the world and lots of folks will log right after they die....
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Originally posted by mipoikel
And you must remember that bailing is not a death. Bailed succesfully doesnt send you back to training.
At least it should be that way.
from what i have heard about TOD, bailing will be a bad thing. even ditching on the runway will be a bad thing. the idea is to make it more like "real life" your goal will be mission first, then survival. you think in the real war guys that didn't land their plane properly were rewarded?
there is alot of talk abotu what ToD will be, and if you have read all the stuff HTC has said, and been at the con listening to Dale and Pyro, you'd have a pretty good idea of what it will probably be like.
basically take everything you know about the MA, and AH in general and throw it out the door (except the plane models).
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Is TOD going to replace AH2, or is AH2 going to remain?
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Just a question, well ToD be free for like a 2 week trial, just see how it goes, and works out?
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Originally posted by Ohio43
Is TOD going to replace AH2, or is AH2 going to remain?
ToD will be a seperate game, as far as i have heard AH2 will stay running.
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Originally posted by Mustaine
from what i have heard about TOD, bailing will be a bad thing. even ditching on the runway will be a bad thing. the idea is to make it more like "real life" your goal will be mission first, then survival. you think in the real war guys that didn't land their plane properly were rewarded?
there is alot of talk abotu what ToD will be, and if you have read all the stuff HTC has said, and been at the con listening to Dale and Pyro, you'd have a pretty good idea of what it will probably be like.
basically take everything you know about the MA, and AH in general and throw it out the door (except the plane models).
Many LW aces were shot down many times and they didnt need to go back to training camps. :)
Thats what I mean. If you die, you must start all over again. If you bail and succes, you hold your current position. :)
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Originally posted by Mustaine
from what i have heard about TOD, bailing will be a bad thing. even ditching on the runway will be a bad thing. the idea is to make it more like "real life" your goal will be mission first, then survival. you think in the real war guys that didn't land their plane properly were rewarded?
In almost all the cases I have read about it was a non-issue. They wanted the pilots to bail out rather than die.
Heck, I recall Bob Tuck bringing a shot up Spitfire back from Dunkirk and barely managing to land it before the engine quite. He was quite pleased with himself over saving the fighter,. Then his crew chief chewed him out about having not bailed as he could have had a brand new Spitfire by that evening and now had to work through the night to try to get the shot up one working again.
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TOD might crash and burn, or whatever; we won't know until it finally gets here. All I know is that the Wednesday night historical snapshots are a lot of fun, and if TOD is anything like those, then it'll probably be a lot of fun too.
When I see big furballs of P-47's and 190a5's, or wildcats and zeros, I finally get to see what I always wanted in European Air War or Heroes of the 357th--real people behind the sticks. The MA's a lot of fun too, but it just misses out on the WWII feeling, and that's what I'm really going for.
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like i said, i could be totally off with my thoughts on ToD....
i am taking what i remember from a drunken haze at the con's Q&A ;) :rofl
part of me wishes they could have taped, and webcasted that Q&A, it was awsome. tons of stuff answered, and tons of thoughts on the progress of AH and ToD. it was like 3 hours though :eek: :D
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"Could ToD fail"
The only sure failure IMO has been the constant comparison to MA issues and gameplay by some.
But to be honest that's not the topic starters fault as we're told by HTC every now and then that they'll tell us more about TOD but it just doesn't seem to come about.
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If TOD was main Shawk would be our Five Star general! On the other hand Coors would be my vote.. Shawk barking out orders that’s all we need....
Personally I like the idea of having something that is more rank and score oriented. It seams that if you have a high rank you are looked down on in main. It’s too bad because sometimes I would like to know how good another pilot is but you can’t tell that by his score. Coors and Shawk are both great stick but their are some in the top 10 that are average pilots. Remember back in AW when the first page you looked at was rank I would like to see that with TOD.
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If you get penalized for dying and can't up till the scenario is over,
Thats not what would happen at all.
If you die you lose 'points'. If lose all or a lot of your points you repeat the 'training missions'. Then you start over. You won't sit out the rest of the tour, that would be just silly and no one would play...
But to be honest that's not the topic starters fault as we're told by HTC every now and then that they'll tell us more about TOD but it just doesn't seem to come about.
There hasn't been a whole lot of recent information for sure, but most of what the original poster was concerned about has been discussed, so has the 'what happens when I die'. In some detail at that.
Just like HT never said that if you bail or ditch you automatically are considered dead or severely penalized.
I am sure if you are captured or killed it will equal death and quite possibly some - point aspect to losing your plane but a lot of the 'kooky' conclusion folks come up with are just silly.
A lot of information was discussed on the forum well after the con where ToD was presented.
Just a question, well ToD be free for like a 2 week trial, just see how it goes, and works out?
ToD won't be a 'new game' with 'new subscriptions'. It will just be a different arena with different rules. The 2 week free I am sure will apply and your current main subscription will cover ToD as well.
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two weeks-
(too weaks)
(tweeks)
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Or it could be there will be plenty of guys like me who could care less about rank and will be happy being grunts forever as long as we can fly something.
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It sounded to me like Tour of Duty would work like another arena that people could play in -- not something that would supplant the Main Arena or be a different game entirely. Anyway, it won't be all that much longer until we all know for sure.
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Click and be enlightened. (http://www.simhq.com/_air/air_059a.html)
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I hope that HTC does the little things too that make it immersive..Like..
Make the OC a fun place to hang out in between missions..for example..
Back ground noises of bar fites and smashing glass...
Ability to join planes..chase view(with vox/text disabled)
A movie room where squadies can watch a gun cam view flick of the last fight(pass the butter-have popcorn)
A mission status menu so you can see who's alive/dead...Targets hit/missed
And for in flight..
and a friggen mp3 player button/tab for in flight tunes.:D
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Wait a sec, is TOD going to be an entirely different game or is it going to be just a different arena?
Because there's no way in hell I could afford to pay anymore.
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Sweat Jesious...
ToD is not a separate game requiring a separate subscription...
It won't replace the main...
It's just a different arena with a different style of game play.
It's currently unknown whether you will need an additional download to play in that arena. However, from all indications so far there's no need for panic or hysteria.
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Panic, run, freak out!!! :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: