Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: rpm on July 29, 2005, 11:11:30 AM
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link (http://msnbc.msn.com/id/8713518/)
I'm not a huge fan of Tucker Carlson, but he's got this one nailed.
CARLSON: So, it’s a revenue enhancer. It’s a way for cities and towns to get more money out of people, then.
MCKEON: Nothing to do with revenue. The fine is between $100 to $250 for the second offense. But it’s never about that. It’s about people hopefully operating their vehicles in a more responsible fashion.
CARLSON: Don’t you think, in an age where America is under attack by al Qaida, that members of our law enforcement community ought to be spending their time sort of worrying about, say, protecting New Jersey’s chemical plants, rather than worried about someone lighting up a Marlboro in traffic?
MCKEON: You know, are there more important things for everybody to worry about? You know, of course they are.
CARLSON: I’m not talking about everybody. I’m talking about police officers, who are, as we often hear, correctly, the front line in our defense against terror. This is not everybody. These are the people who are protecting us from getting killed. Shouldn’t they be trying to protect us from getting killed, rather than bothering someone about having a cigarette?
MCKEON: I know you’re too sharp to suggest that people should be able to speed now because we have things going on around the world that are much more serious.
I mean, this has to do with local police officers and what they do in enforcing traffic safety. And this is just a secondary offense that I think makes sense.
CARLSON: I just want to ask you one final question. I want to get you concede that what is this really about is the fact you don’t like smoking.
A lot of people don’t like smoking. I’m not saying people ought to like smoking. But this is taking a minority group in America, a group of people who is very unpopular, by virtue of what they do, and piling on, pounding them, extracting more money from them, regulating them, because you can, because no one likes cigarette smokers. That’s really what is happening.
MCKEON: Yes, well, if you ask me what my opinion is about smoking and relative to its health effects, and...
CARLSON: Right. I’m sure you’re against smoking.
MCKEON: I’m against it without question. But this has really nothing to do with being anti-smoking.
Riiiiight.
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Tucker is a publicity seeking arse...
That aside..anyone with half a brain could debunk that stupid law.
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If there are cities that are banning cellphones in cars because it distracts from driving, it stands to reason that smoking, or eating, or any number of other activities will soon be banned as well.
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Originally posted by SirLoin
Tucker is a publicity seeking arse...
That aside..anyone with half a brain could debunk that stupid law.
Perhaps I didn't state my true opinion of him when I said I wasn't a huge fan. He's a publicity seeking arse, but correct in this instance.
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I dont think you can compare smoking in a car to talking on a cell phone. Most smokers i know smoke, like they breath, it's not distracting to them at all.
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Deleted.
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Originally posted by Sandman
If there are cities that are banning cellphones in cars because it distracts from driving, it stands to reason that smoking, or eating, or any number of other activities will soon be banned as well.
We can all look forward to that glorious day when you no longer drive your car at all. Instead, you enter, speak the address to the ever polite and attentive computer and the computer will safely and calmly drive you to your destination.
If we could just take humans out of all these human interactions.
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I'd like to see the study showing smoking related accident rates. Seems to be a pretty clear revenue grab. Smokers are addicts. They will smoke even after an initial warning. $100 - $250 a pop, after pop after pop. Another good excuse to pull somebody over and look for anything else that may generate some $$$.
Tucker is a smarmy hugahunk for sure, but on target here, IMO.
Charon
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after reading over the articles i could find in google...hmmm everybody in the NJ govt. that is supporting this is a Democrat...gee didn't see that coming from the Government should regulate and control every aspect of your life people.
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#1 cause of distracted while driving.. women. Yapping away at yah while inside the damn car.. or walking in view of a public road with a nice bellybutton and a great luggage rack.
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I am all for the anti-smoking laws in public places that are being enacted in big cities, but this smoking ban in the automobile is just stupid.
I would much rather see more people get tickets for flicking cigarette butts out the car window.
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Maybe before trying to get people for flicking cigarette butts out the window they could focus on people flicking car batteries, tires, fast food wrappers, papers, etc.
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Yup, came into work today to find a v-8 motor blocking our garage.
But yet I'm not allowed to smoke a cigarette while driving, in NJ?
As a Smoker, I don't ever flick my butt out the window ( cigarette butt) And I don't throw any paper,trash, etc. out the window.
I don't care who dislikes cigarette smoke, I think this is insanely stupid. I have a 35-45 minute drive to work everyday and see some really bizzarre things going on in cars while driving, from eating AND talking on the cell while trying to drive AND shift!
I've seen a girl go up the curb and on the grass while aplying eyeliner, I've sen a lady cross 3 lanes without a turn signal OR looking because her HUGH beanie baby collection covered the entire rear window, and the side windows were covered with those suction cup cardboard signs that read " Honk If you like Beanie babies" and "I brake for Beanie Babies"
I've seen a guy dump his Harley because he "thought" the car wasn't going to stop at the stop sign ( car stopped, had them spinning hubcaps) Hard to judge if the cars stopping with those on.
I see some pretty stupid stuff people do in cars while driving, but never think seeing someone smoking in a car is so life threating it needs a law to stop it.
NUTTZ
Originally posted by Cougar68
Maybe before trying to get people for flicking cigarette butts out the window they could focus on people flicking car batteries, tires, fast food wrappers, papers, etc.
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Sssh. Hush now. The Government will do what's best for you. Just do what nanny tells you.
There appetite of folks that want you to do what they say and live as they tell you to live is never satiated. They will keep coming at you and telling you what to do forever.
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Pretty soon you won't be able to scratch your b*^@s while driving.
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wow.... the naaaanny state being furthered by..... a democrat????
who'd a thunk??
I bet you guys voting for democrats never sighned on for this didya?
Point is, in the long run... any democrat you vote for will work his/her butt off to take more and more personal freedoms away from you for the rest of his/her term(s) in office..
If they don't come up with this silliness on their own... they will lockstep vote with whatever girl or girly man fellow democrat that does come up with it...
lazs
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Originally posted by ASTAC
I'd go to jail...then tell the Judge to f off! I smoke and it is not distracting..of all the stupid things that cause accidents, I bet smoking is let than one tenth of one percent.
No stupid law would ever keep me from smoking in my car.
I have a friend who had an accident: the last thing he remembers was that he took a cigarette lighter from it's socket and then he woke up from coma 3 months later in a reanimation chamber. :(
That's why I always offer to light a cigarette for a driver when I am on a right seat.
I am a smoker, and I think that any smoking restrictions are a violation of my rights.
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although I no longer smoke... I would have to agree with boroda for the most part on this... So far as buildings paid for by the public... say a courthouse... the government has the right to forbid smokeing..
In private owned buildings.. it should be the choice of the owner... all he should need to do is post a huge sign that states that "this is a smokeing area". In your car? no ones bussines... if it can be proven that you caused a wreck because you were lighting a cig.... you should be prossecuted.
It's all really simple stuff... common sense and all that.
lazs
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Tuning the radio is JUST as distracting as ashing a but or retreiving a lighter, but there is no political action to have all car stereos removed.........
I drove tow trucks for years, and in several different states. I have responded to thousands of collisions, can't recall a single one that was caused by a smoker not paying attention to the road. IMO this is a BS idea, designed to punish smokers, and generate money. Nothing more, nothing less. I don't even smoke cigarettes, but I feel this is just BS, plain and simple.
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Originally posted by Hangtime
#1 cause of distracted while driving.. women. Yapping away at yah while inside the damn car.. or walking in view of a public road with a nice bellybutton and a great luggage rack.
In Tampa they banned girls from wearing t-back bikinis while operating hot dog stands on the way to the beaches. It was causing too many accidents.
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How can u get a ticket for lighten a cigarette while it isnt forbidden to have a lighter in ur car.
Not to mention an ashtray.
Cant he make a case about that.
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Originally posted by A_Clown
Tuning the radio is JUST as distracting as ashing a but or retreiving a lighter, but there is no political action to have all car stereos removed.........
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no doubt.
i "channel surf" in my car, no CD player... and i can say i have gotten distracted changing stations.
i see people all the time playing with radios / phones / whatever being TONS more dnagerous than someone casually smokin a grit.
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If the government profits from crime, the government will find a way to find more criminals.
There was a great big country with an economy based on prison labor, can't think of the countries name at the moment.. socialist something.
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Originally posted by Suave
If the government profits from crime, the government will find a way to find more criminals.
"Government punishes for stealing only because it doesn't want competition" - I don't remember who said it :(
Originally posted by Suave
There was a great big country with an economy based on prison labor, can't think of the countries name at the moment.. socialist something.
If you mean USSR - it never relied on prison labour. It relied on devoted enthusiasts. BTW, prisoners who worked on vital projects like White Sea - Baltic channel got released after they finished a job.
On-topic: it wasn't forbidden to smoke in Moscow metro (underground, subway) until 1960s - everyone understood that it's inappropriate and refrained from smoking.
I understand the feelings of the people who don't smoke, I spent 12 hours in IL-62 when I was 16 and a person next to me was smoking all the time, so I almost suffocated. I started to smoke in 1991 during a "coup", when I was 100km away from Msk and got a little too nervous about a civil war about to begin. I was almost 19. Still I always ask if I can smoke when I ride a cab - don't want to make others feel bad. I usually throw away a cigarette if a driver says he doesn't mind but he quited smoking now.
But I hate general attitude towards smokers: me and my friend go to a coffee-shop, take a seat at a hall for smokers, make an order and my friend takes out his pipe. In 2 minutes, he didn't have a time to light it, a waitress comes and says that a lady at the table 10 meters from us doesn't want him to smoke a pipe. After a fast and quite polite discussion (we adviced that lady to STFU [in a polite Muscovite way] and move to a hall for non-smokers) we simply went away before receiving our order and paying. It's stupid. And it's a tolerant barbarian country, and it's cosmopolitan capital city of "40 languages"...
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Yes the whole world knows what a wonderfull place the USSR was.
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Originally posted by Suave
Yes the whole world knows what a wonderfull place the USSR was.
I don't care about the "whole world" - I have some personal experience, and my relatives suffered in the 1930s, but it wasn't their prison labour that helped my nation(s) to survive, it was their enthusiasm and devotion. I hope this topic is closed and we'll refrain from hijacking this interesting and educating thread. If you want to discuss USSR - open your own thread please. I'll not alswer your hallucinations "that everyone knows" here any more.
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Originally posted by Boroda
I am a smoker, and I think that any smoking restrictions are a violation of my rights.
What about the rights of the non smokers?
There are places where restrictions are in place.
Mainly in public transportation and public buildings.
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Originally posted by Fishu
What about the rights of the non smokers?
There are places where restrictions are in place.
Mainly in public transportation and public buildings.
In public transpotration - non-smokers rights are secured, in trains you can smoke only in compartments next to edges of the car, after restroom and next to a door between cars.
In public buildings there have to be some specially arranged places where people are allowed to smoke. Every 100 meters or so. As I said above - I don't want to bother anyone, I want to suck a cigarette and talk to some other smoker (smoking is a social activity).
I try to do my best to not disturb you - so I kindly expect same attitude from you, non smokers. Sorry.
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The cities here that are trying to ban outdoor smoking are just insane...in an outdoor environmenmt there is enough "clean" air to dissipate the 2nd hand smoke rendering it harmless.
I don't think the government has the right to legislate smoking laws that require private owners to ban smoking. Bars, clubs, resturants etc. Alot of people smoke while waiting for food and after they eat and should be allowed to without having to go outside. I don't have a problem with bans in public buildings and transportation. This is really get6ting out of hand.
Hell because of the Nanny state finding (wrongfully) that tobacco copmanies were liable for a few people's lung cancer, we already have to pay anwhere from 3.80 to 6.00 a pack (depending where you live). Isn't that punishment enough for our filthy habit?
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That aside..non-smoker can again LOL about such laws.
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Originally posted by ASTAC
Hell because of the Nanny state finding (wrongfully) that tobacco copmanies were liable for a few people's lung cancer, we already have to pay anwhere from 3.80 to 6.00 a pack (depending where you live). Isn't that punishment enough for our filthy habit?
3.80 to 6.00?!?!
Fascists!
Here I pay 14 rubles ($1=28rubles) for a pack of multifilter "XXI Century" from Rostov-on-Don. A cheapest pack of "Prima" is 3 or 4 rubles, I don't remember, a traditional 25-pack of "Belomorkanal" papirosy is 4.50 in a tobacco-store near my subway station. Good filtered cigarettes start from 8 rubles per 20-pack (Apollo-Soyuz soft-pack).
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But what about the two toddlers strapped in the back seat while Mommy and Daddy are both puffing away(with the A/C going full blast and the window open a cracK?)
I say let the Cops have the power to hand out a ticket in that case...Just like leaving a dog/child in the car with the windows up on a hot day...
Should be a windows fully down law when smoking with anyone else in the car that isn't old enough to drive(iow..he has no choice but to be a passenger)
The infraction section should read"Failure To Be A Caring Parent"
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Originally posted by SirLoin
But what about the two toddlers strapped in the back seat while Mommy and Daddy are both puffing away(with the A/C going full blast and the window open a cracK?)
I say let the Cops have the power to hand out a ticket in that case...Just like leaving a dog/child in the car with the windows up on a hot day...
Should be a windows fully down law when smoking with anyone else in the car that isn't old enough to drive(iow..he has no choice but to be a passenger)
The infraction section should read"Failure To Be A Caring Parent"
Agreed completely. Exposing kids to smoke must be punished. I mean - punished, not just telling them that they do a wrong thing.
Just like punishment for anyone who poures a glass of liquor for a kid.
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To be honest, this law is BS, but I personally can't stand smokers.
I work in a restaurant where I don't have a choice to stay in the non-smoking section. I've smoked probably 5 cigarettes since I was 18 and haven't lit one up in over a year (I get craving because of my situation, explained later). I have to suffer through smoke with my asthma and I can't stand it. In Illinois practically anywhere you can smoke, but its not fair to the non-smokers. Sure, I can walk away, but then where am I to go when there are smokers blocking my way? I have slight addictions and a bad cough from second-hand smoke and its ridiculous.
This propsed law though itself is preposterous, its a moving vehicle and unless there are under age kids in the car, let people smoke.
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Originally posted by Boroda
(Apollo-Soyuz soft-pack).
They named smokes after a space mission?
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so how many of you guys noticed the huge decrease in the price of your health insurance now that the tobaco companies have been sued and all the people are quiting smoking or cutting down?
Bout like the huge dro[ in medical and car insurance when the ladies made us all wear seatbelts or... how bout them helmets? the drop in insurance costs was.... well .. you know..
lazs
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Originally posted by Toad
If we could just take humans out of all these human interactions.
That was the ultimate goal of communism, and the only situation where it could work.
It's no wonder the leftists here in the USA are trying topush the same thing.
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Originally posted by ASTAC
They named smokes after a space mission?
I especially like how they identify them by caliber.
I wonder if they have armor piercing...?
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Originally posted by Hangtime
I wonder if they have armor piercing...?
You mean non-filter.
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Boroda, Since you miss the old U.S.S.R. so much you ought to move to America because we are the new U.S.S.R....lol
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O question who is more expensive a non smoker or a smoker.
Smoker might get terrible desease dies younger untill that time he invested about 3-4 euro a day because of the extra tax. When he dies young it doesnt cost much anymore.
The non smoker however does live longer in the end needs extra (medical)care.
And in the end when our average age gets higher the gouvernment will decide we have to work longer. Because the will try every way to screw u.
just a tought
live and let live
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Originally posted by ASTAC
They named smokes after a space mission?
Yes, in 1975, and it was a best brand in USSR, 1.50 rubles per pack it was made by Phillip Morris. 1975 was a year when Pepsi, Phillip Morris and other Western "consumer brands" appeared in USSR. Non-filtered Prima was something like 0.2, Java filtered 0.4, expensive Kosmos or Leningrad filtered 0.7, cheapest hay-filled Verhovina was 0.06, Pamir (a beggar in the mountains) - 0.13 at that time IIRC. Later, by 1980 Olympics we had Marlboro and Chestrfield for 1.50 per pack. Average salary was maybe less then 200 rubles monthly in 1980.
Now Apollo-Soyuz is a good inexpensive brand, 8-12 rubles. At least this cigarettes didn't get awfull after last 12 years.
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Originally posted by Hangtime
I especially like how they identify them by caliber.
I wonder if they have armor piercing...?
Armour piercing were Cubal "Ligeros" or "Monte Cristo" non-filtered. ;) That stuff was so strong!
In the glorious days of "humanitarian aid" (1992-93) I smoked French "Galouises Caporal" in soft packs. Was not as strong as a stuff from Cuba but still repelled most of the people who wanted to "borrow" a cigarette from me, at least after they tried that thermonuclear stuff once :D
Unfortunately now we don't have Cuban cigarettes any more, the only brand sold here is quite good but too expensive, 50 rubles per pack, 3 times more then my "XXI Century medium".
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Using that number, it means a dollar is worth about 16 rubles. Gasoline should be abut 32 rubles per gallon, a six pack of beer 96 rubles, and a loaf of bread about 16 rubles. Does that hold true?
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Originally posted by Lizking
Using that number, it means a dollar is worth about 16 rubles. Gasoline should be abut 32 rubles per gallon, a six pack of beer 96 rubles, and a loaf of bread about 16 rubles. Does that hold true?
Lizking, it's funny, but estimated "real" value of a dollar is around 16 rubles! Now it's 28, if ruble will get more expensive it will mean the end of our so-called "economics".
Gas is around 15 rubles per litre, means 60 rubles per gallon. Two times more. Six pack is 90-120 rubles depends on a brand. Loaf of bread - a standard 400g wheat white bread or 800g brick of rye black bread is 9-12 rubles.
Compare it to Soviet prices: 0.5 beer = 50-61 kopeykas, bread - 13-25 kopeykas, subway entrance or bus/trolley/tram (since 1985) - 5 kopeykas (13 rubles now).
My official salary in Academy of Science is 2000 rubles monthly now. It's not enough even to comfortably starve. Average salary in Msk is 10-15K rubles. I can make 10K sleeping for 8 hours 5 days a week as a "guard" anywhere. Subway train driver gets 20-25K monthly, and they don't get enough people to fill all the jobs, they offer free education and all things.
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Originally posted by Boroda
Later, by 1980 Olympics we had Marlboro and Chestrfield for 1.50 per pack.
Chesterfields in Moscow? Jack Webb is spinning in his grave!
(http://www.badge714.com/images/CHESTER.JPG)
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Boroda that wouldn't pay my utilities. Good luck and good on you for making do.
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Originally posted by BUG_EAF322
O question who is more expensive a non smoker or a smoker.
Smoker.
Essentially every study that's ever looked at this finds the total cost of health care for a smoker exceeds that for a nonsmoker and by a significant margin.
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Originally posted by myelo
Smoker.
Essentially every study that's ever looked at this finds the total cost of health care for a smoker exceeds that for a nonsmoker and by a significant margin.
Let's then calculate who's more "expensive" - vegetarian or meat-eater, people who prefer milk to soda and wine to vodka, and so on.
I only understand that if I'll quit smoking I'll have a strong impact on my health, I smoke for 14 years now. OTOH my Grand-Uncle died when he was 92, and he smoked for a whole life. And he died not because he smoked or drank wine. He smoked cheapest non-filtered stuff, and even grew tobacco at his country house garden (he lived in the South, Krasnodar).
Look, they speak about giving MJ or other drugs to addicts for free, but tax tobacco so you guys have to pay up to $6 for a pack of 20!...
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every study I have seen was heavily related to heart and lungs over the long term. I have no doubt that cigs are bad for the heart and lungs.
I don't smoke but am unwilling to ban it. I don't care if people smoke in their homes or their cars or in privately owned buildings. I don't mind paying for any medical expenses smokers may cost me or drinkers or fatr people or weak people or whatever..
I am unwilling to say euthenize sickly people cut down on expense. I am unwilling to tell people they have to wear lifejackets in their bathtubs to cut down on expense or close all the fast food resteraunts.
lazs
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Why would heavy smokers and drinkers be more expensive than the ones who don't?
They can die younger, therefore requires no medical attention over the years they didn't live due to the "bad" habbits.
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Originally posted by Fishu
Why would heavy smokers and drinkers be more expensive than the ones who don't?
It's not how long you live; it's how sick you are while your still alive. If the first time you lit a cigarette at age 12 your head exploded, your idea might apply. But that's not what happens. On average, smokers live 10 years less than nonsmokers. But they are able to cram more sickness in those 10 less years.
I'm not saying that justifies laws against smoking in your car ... just relying to Boroda's misstatement.
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My Grandmother and grandfather both smoked Prince Albert. They both were near 80 when they died. Neither death was due to smoking.
My dad smoked Camels til the day he died at 67. Smoking definitely played a part in his death with emphysema, but the majority of his problems were drinking related.
I think it just goes to show that smoking affects different people differently. Or it could be that the manipulating of ingredients in ready rolled vs plain tobbacco in hand rolled is the cause of more problems.
What irks me is the fact that all the billions of dollars big tobbacco has paid out for health care was not spent on health care. The states squandered the money on lawyers, pay raises for politicians, ect. Not a penny to cover health care costs. Smokers that become ill will pay just as much or more than they would have prior to the lawsuit.