Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Russian on July 29, 2005, 10:30:14 PM
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I’m thinking of going backpacking next month for the first time and would like some suggestions from experienced people. Specifically about laws, things to pack and equipment needed. I’d like to go for 3 days somewhere quite without any other humans. Also I want to bring handgun and rifle. So who has done it before and what do you suggest. Links are welcome.
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Gps, Water, Cell, mirror (for signaling), binoculars, extra socks, map, compass, extra batteries. :) Have fun:)
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Originally posted by Raider179
Gps, Water, Cell, mirror (for signaling), binoculars, extra socks, map, compass, extra batteries. :) Have fun:)
GPS?....Cell?....you are got to be kidding me. I want to get away from techology, not to use it.
Maps....compass....flashlite. ...socks.....check!
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Most important thing: good boots. I mean - in no way too small. Socks: cotton, then - wool, then (non-mandatory) - nylon over wool.
Don't even think about wearing "keds" or other footwear with soft soles. Get a pair of army boots. I don't mean Soviet "sapogi", just good army boots. I wore "sapogi" hiking for maybe 4 seasons, but it was "experimental" model, with polyurethane soles and 3 times lighter then standard "kirzachi". Army boots have many advantages over new-fangled hiking boots like Solomons. I have seen people returning from a hiking trip having their $120 Solmons tied with strings to hold them together.
An axe. Best stuff I have ever seen is made by Fiskars, Finland. "Forest axe" model, costed me about $50 10 years ago and I still have it and it payed me back every cent. An axe IS important!
Karemat (polyurethane foam carpet). Your kidneys are valuable for you, aren't they? ;)
I usually wear cotton camo suit, the only thing bad about it is that it doesn't have a hood. Cotton is better then new-fangled synthetic stuff - at least you can get drunk and fall into a campfire and it will not melt down like Gore-tex :D
A "nakidka" made of Korean waterproof nylon.
A tent - I hope you'll choose yourself what you like better. I have a "Sierra" model with two exits, 2.5kg total with aliminium frame. Fells like an oversize coffin - but I don't think I'll arrange parties inside ;) It's enough for 3 persons, it's warm, for two it's just enough space for... you now what :D
And get a smaaall bottle of ethanol (pure 96% wine spirit). 50ml of this stuff will revive you when you'll be setting up a camp after walking for 30km. 3 days for at least 3 participants = 0.5L, including some reserve just in case you'll have problems making fire ;)
A backpack: I prefer stuff that has a frame, it's easier to carry and when you fill it you simply put the stuff in and jump upon it so it will fit. Check a belt to unload your shoulder strips (lyamki) - it's important. It has to be right over your... how to say it in English... "kosti taza".
I hope I'll be on ICQ in 12 hours - so we'll talk in our language without fear to get "#16ed" ;)
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Originally posted by Russian
GPS?....Cell?....you are got to be kidding me. I want to get away from techology, not to use it.
Maps....compass....flashlite. ...socks.....check!
Tell you this much you get lost out in the woods for a few days you are gonna wish you had em. Just keep em turned off, the cell only for emergency, the GPS is invaluable.
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Originally posted by Raider179
Tell you this much you get lost out in the woods for a few days you are gonna wish you had em. Just keep em turned off, the cell only for emergency, the GPS is invaluable.
Damn! I forgot to include a compass! I once got myself into a deep bellybutton at a place I thought I know like my five fingers without compass...
GPS is a toy. Never used it. I always trust a map (even if it's a faded photo-copied 1937 stuff from GUGK RKKA), a magnetic compass and my own eyes. Orientation on a plain is quite easy. I've won two competitions in night-orientation as a group commander when I was at school, the only trick is to use "linear objects" as checkpoints.
Cellular is a nuisance. Spoile me a vacation 2 or three times, now I leave it at home.
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In 12 hours I should be awake, feel free to contact me. Thanks for advice.
"kosti taza". Hip/ butt bone? ;) I understand what you are saying,
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Duct tape, mole skin, polypro liner socks under half wool/half synthetic socks. Boots if you're going off trail, if your staying on trail running shoes will work.
External frames are easier on your back, but if you will be going off trail, or mounaneering an internal frame won't compromise your balance as much.
Take iodine tablets for water purification and vitamin C tablets to remove the iodine taste. You don't need a filter unless your water source isn't clear. And if there are no water sources you should pack about a gallon of h2o per day. If you are taking dehydrated food you'll need to take even more water.
Do not go without a compass and a map. GPS is fun but a compass is necessity.
Bring a few different reliable ways to build a fire. Lighter, waterproof matches, magnesium, cottonballs with smeared with petroleum jelly in a ziplock, those joke birthday candles that don't blow out.
Whistle, signal mirror, and a leatherman like multitool.
Why are you bringing a rifle and a pistol? That's heavy. As far as the laws it depends where you go. If you're really worried about bear and you don't want to take only bear spray. A small 12ga with buckshot is your best alternative. Have fun trying to stop a bear charging at you faster than a horse can gallop with a pistol. Also make a lot of noise, put bells on and stuff so that you don't surprise Smokey as he's eating somebodies horse along side the trail.
In federal wilderness all man made machines are illegal, even bicycle. gps, guns, flashlights, fishing reel are legal though. In some parks right now, camp fires and smoking are prohibited because of high fire risk.
More than you'll ever need to know here.
http://hikinghq.net/
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You know, seriously, if this is your first backpacking expedition in a long time you shouldn't go alone.
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Don't come backpacking in the UK if you only have even a slight tan! :lol
If you must buy a see through rucksack! :lol
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I have a PUR water filter with a charcoal adder filter and I haven't used Iodine tablets since I bought the filter. I can pull up stagnant puddles and fill a 2 liter bottle in 50 pumps or so. The water taste like the best bottled stuff. Get a filter.
If you worry about bears, bear proof containers for food are important. Don't keep any food deep in your pack. Bears will destroy anthing between them and food. I've seen pictures of car trunks torn open to get to the bacon within.
That being said, I have never seen a bear when I was packing in Oregon. Make enough noise when you walk down the trail and they leave you alone. My food goes in a bag I hang in a tree.
I pack my Sig only because two legged critters in the woods are much more dangerous than four legged ones. Not too many drunks in the wilderness though so the chances of that are very small.
The main reason I carry my pistol I have always been worried about stumbling across someone's crop when I go fishing and wanted to be able to return fire. Never been close to using it though.
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Originally posted by Raider179
Tell you this much you get lost out in the woods for a few days you are gonna wish you had em. Just keep em turned off, the cell only for emergency, the GPS is invaluable.
LMAO flippin amatures.
I remember the days before GPS, and Cells.
There are ways to hike in even the most confusing of forests without getting lost.
A cell isnt a bad idea if you get seriously hurt. But even then as often as not you may be in an area where the cell might not get service.
The only MUSTS you should have when hiking in the woods other then a good pair of boots. (preferably with laces)Are a good and sharp knife, a book of matches or other firestarting apparatus, and a compass. A good sharp hatchet and a 50 foot length of rope along with a topographical map of the area is also preferable. A small mirror also isnt a bad idea
Then again it is his first time. In which case he shouldnt be straying off the hiking path to begin with.
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Originally posted by Holden McGroin
I have a PUR water filter with a charcoal adder filter and I haven't used Iodine tablets since I bought the filter. I can pull up stagnant puddles and fill a 2 liter bottle in 50 pumps or so. The water taste like the best bottled stuff. Get a filter.
Good call. Those things work great.
Also pack along a small book on wilderness survival.. jussst in case.
Its always good to know whats safe to eat plant wise. and can have some fun identifing and trying different plants even if you dont get lost. Just gives ya somethign else to do while your out there.
Oh and most things that crawl are edible though even if not very appetizing
A small fishing kit also isnt a bad idea. Even if its only some line and a few hooks.
But if you dont get a PUR or some other type of water purifier be sure to bring plenty of drinkable water.
And DONT, I repeat DO NOT just drink water right from the stream or spring no matter how clean it looks unless you absolutely have no other choice.
The stomache and arse hole you save may be your own.
Oh and dont forget a first aid kit.
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Originally posted by DREDIOCK
LMAO flippin amatures.
I remember the days before GPS, and Cells.
There are ways to hike in even the most confusing of forests without getting lost.
A cell isnt a bad idea if you get seriously hurt. But even then as often as not you may be in an area where the cell might not get service.
The only MUSTS you should have when hiking in the woods other then a good pair of boots. (preferably with laces)Are a good and sharp knife, a book of matches or other firestarting apparatus, and a compass. A good sharp hatchet and a 50 foot length of rope along with a topographical map of the area is also preferable. A small mirror also isnt a bad idea
Then again it is his first time. In which case he shouldnt be straying off the hiking path to begin with.
Hey what can I say, I think the waypoint feature. Lets you mark cool spots so you can find them again. Yeah you can do it with a map, but I would rather spend my time hiking and enjoying the view than trying to figure out where I am going.
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Hmmm how do I say this without getting modded...
How about this:
(Dred this isn't aimed at you, but you did strike a sore point with me)
Anyone who goes into a wilderness area without taking along lightweight devices that have been proven to save lives and that you probably already own, just because they use technology, is a total retard.
Seriously, I spent a dozen years camping and hiking in the boy scouts, another two dozen years camping and hiking with family and friends, and taught woodlands survival at the USAF academy for 2 summers, and I've come to the conclusion that the macho outdoorsman thing is an amature act when it comes to emergency equipment. If you don't want to be bugged by your cellphone, turn it off but still bring it along. If you want to enjoy the challenge of outdoor orienteering and navigation, then leave your gps at the bottom of your pack, but still bring it along. I can't count the number of emergency situation "saves" I've read about that were directly attributable to having a gps, cell phone, or other newfangled emergency gear, and I've read about just as many people who died that may have been saved if they had some simple and cheap gadgets for emergency use.
Like the group of three experienced he-man adventurists who went over the wrong ridge during a snowstorm and died within 1/4 mile of their shelter. Or the dude who rode his mtn bike off the trail into a ditch, broke his hip, and nearly died even though he was within a cell phone coverage area.
Those suckers are so light and cheap nowadays, just toss them in your pack. They're cheap insurance and failing to bring them out of some misguided sense of macho pride is the act of a mentally deficient individual (ie. a retard). All that other stuff is great, but it doesn't mean anything when you and your hiking partner slip down a muddy slope and break your legs. Or your partner gets mauled by an animal and is bleeding out faster than you could go get help. Or the weather closes in and you need to know the direct-line or shortest route back to shelter. Or you have to leave a disabled partner to go get help and want to have gps coords handy for the rescue helo to go back and make the pickup. The tech is available and cheap, so toss the macho BS and treat it like any other piece of emergency gear.
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I use mechanical filteration to make water palatable, I use tablets to make water potable. If I'm going somewhere that I know the water is allready palatable I don't pack the filter. Activated charcoal will bind up toxins, but it won't remove microorganisms. I have a katadyn filter and it's supposed to remove bacteria and protozoa but I don't really trust it. And as far as I know it has no antiviral component.
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Yeah commo is critical, I'm saving up for a portable HF tranciever. Cell phones don't work in most places worth hiking to.
Another cool thing about gps is how feasible it makes off-trail hiking, checking out abandon mines and etc.
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Originally posted by Suave
You know, seriously, if this is your first backpacking expedition in a long time you shouldn't go alone.
Was going to say the same thing until saw you post it.....
Inexperianced going alone is just stupid.
Recall that guy who had to cut off his arm after getting it stuck? He was an experianced hiker alone.... going alone just isn't a good idea, period IMHO. If you screw up and break a leg or something ... what do you do? Nature can be very unforgiveing.
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Make sure to check if fires, and gathering are allowed where you go ... if not, you can get nice lightweight cooking gear from companies like Mountain Safety Research http://www.msrcorp.com/
Weight is everything ... keep your pack weight down or you won't cover the ground you expect to... that pack will get reaaaal heavy after a day uphill.
And don't smoke anythign funky until you set camp.... otherwise you won't cover the ground you expect too :D
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Not to mention boring.
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Wow, I could talk for hours on this topic.
Yeah weight is everything.
There are 3 types of backpackers
1.noobs
2. Backpackers who pack light so that they can bring their total carried weight down as low as possible.
3 Backpackers who pack light so that they can carry more things.
:D
I fall into the 3rd category.
As far as cooking I rarely cook over a camp fire. Why? because it makes your pots and utensils smell very strongly of smoke, then you put them back in your pack and it begins to smell of smoke, soon your tent, sleeping bag, and clothes all smell like smoke.
I'm convinced that alcohol stoves are the way to go. All the gear stores will try to get you to buy their propane and butane and white gas stoves though. Alcohol stoves are cheap, extremely light, effiecient, maintenance free, and it gives you an excuse to take along a bottle of drinkable pure etoh (everclear). Although there are much cheaper alcohol fuels, everclear is the cheapest drinkable fuel, and it puts out more BTUs than methanol.
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i used tro have trouble with alcohol stoves at higher altitudes. I went back to my old GI gas unit, boils much faster, imho. haven't played with any of the modern ultra-light and small stuff.
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Another thing I like to take when I have a supply of them are MREs with MRE heaters. If you have any aqcaintances in the military you might be able to get them very cheap. When you break for lunch on the move and the weather is wet cold and crappy nothing beats hot food. Take out all the useless stuff and what you don't like before you pack the MRE.
The heater is basically just a plastic bag with a sodium based heating element. Put the foil pack of food into the heater bag and poor a little bit of water into it and 5 minutes later you have a steaming hot lunch.
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Originally posted by Suave
As far as cooking I rarely cook over a camp fire. Why? because it makes your pots and utensils smell very strongly of smoke, then you put them back in your pack and it begins to smell of smoke, soon your tent, sleeping bag, and clothes all smell like smoke.
Hmm. Campfire is a most efffecient thing for a group of 10+ people. We use aluminium buckets, for a 10+ group we carry two sets, 8L + 5L. With two big and two small pots you have enough choice for soup, second dish (something like buckwheat or rice with canned meat), hot wate for tea or boiled dry fruits.
And IMHO it's better to smell smoke then sweat. I like a smell of pine smoke.
Originally posted by Suave
I'm convinced that alcohol stoves are the way to go. All the gear stores will try to get you to buy their propane and butane and white gas stoves though. Alcohol stoves are cheap, extremely light, effiecient, maintenance free, and it gives you an excuse to take along a bottle of drinkable pure etoh (everclear). Although there are much cheaper alcohol fuels, everclear is the cheapest drinkable fuel, and it puts out more BTUs than methanol.
Interesting idea. We usually carried propane/butane stoves, mostly for a time when we are over the forest growth in the mountains.
Alcohol stove will be out of fuel in a few days, and a goup will find itself unconscious in the beginning of a route... :D
About filtering water: do you guys hike around chemical factories or something? even around Moscow I usually drink from small rivers and brooks, and in the mountains you can drink water unboiled absolutely everywhere: mountain stream filters all the organics in 300m, plus UV - and you get exellend drinking water. The only problem is that it's usually too soft and you can't wash away (rinse?) soap. I don't wash my hands with soap anyway when hiking, I get severe cracks on my skin, but you'll need to wash something like socks when you hike for over 3 weeks...
Once we had to cook on water from a ditch at the side of the road, it was absolutely brown, we had to boil it carefully and add some potassium permanganate, and we made tea on melted ice from the same ditch.
The only season when it's quite resky to drink water in "civilised" areas is Spring, when too much "natural organic fertilizers" ;) is washed into rivers.
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Originally posted by Hangtime
i used tro have trouble with alcohol stoves at higher altitudes. I went back to my old GI gas unit, boils much faster, imho. haven't played with any of the modern ultra-light and small stuff.
Alcohol stoves are culturally out of question here in Russia :(
What a GI gas unit is? Something like a "Primus" gasoline (petrol) stove with a pump and a cleaning needle? This stuff was dangerous because it could explode: the pressure in a gasoline tank is kept high by heating the tank with burning gasoline in a special cup, at least to start it buning.
At higher altitudes it's more important IMHO to have pressurised pots (autoclaves), water boils at lower temp under low atmospheric pressure. Unfortunately, such devices also may explode. If you cook inside a tent - you may end up eating your borsch from tent walls and your sleeping bags. ;) In emergency people leave a tent in literally a fraction of a second...
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Boroda I'd rather smell like deoderant, I know that sounds crazy to you but..
500ml of etoh will boil about 35-40 liters of water depending on outdoor temperature. If I'm outdoors in the winter, I'll be having my meals at a ski lodge.
Actually alcohol stove with fuel for 14 days is lighter than gas stove with fuel for 14 days.
http://hikinghq.net/stoves/weight_time_compare.html
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Originally posted by Boroda
About filtering water: do you guys hike around chemical factories or something? even around Moscow I usually drink from small rivers and brooks, and in the mountains you can drink water unboiled absolutely everywhere
There is a saying, "Do bears **** in the woods?"
If they **** just upstream of where you take a drink you can get the stuff they just got rid of.
Virus contamination is rare, but Guardia is relatively common. But I could probably drink water from streams for a year and not get it. If you ever get it though, the cost of a filter would have been considered cheap.
I think the irradiation technique courtesy of the Chernobyl accident may have helped in the purity of the surface water in your neck of the woods.
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Here's a great site for comparing backpacking stoves.
http://www.zenstoves.com
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Originally posted by Boroda
Alcohol stoves are culturally out of question here in Russia :(
That's unfortunate, may I ask why? I know that they are commonly used in europe and, believe it or not, himalyas.
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LOL.. to a russian, burning alcohol is a mortal sin.
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Originally posted by Holden McGroin
There is a saying, "Do bears **** in the woods?"
If they **** just upstream of where you take a drink you can get the stuff they just got rid of.
I thought it's we, Russians, who are supposed to have problems with bears ;) Last bear in Moscow "oblast" was shot in 1926 :(
I have heard some stories about encountering bears in Kola peninsula (Khibiny mountains) and Polar Urals, but never even saw a single footprint myself. Once at Baikal lake shore a boy who took care for a geological expedition stocks said he heard bear roaring yesterday, but he was so bored by sitting alone in his tent that he told us all the horror stories he ever heard or read...
Originally posted by Holden McGroin
Virus contamination is rare, but Guardia is relatively common. But I could probably drink water from streams for a year and not get it. If you ever get it though, the cost of a filter would have been considered cheap.
We didn't have good filteres availible util maybe 10 years ago, so we just boil water and add some potassium permanganate if water stinks as crap. I am not afraid of drinking from almost any stream except some rivers near Moscow in Spring. Never experienced any infection from water myself, only once a group of kids from my school got diarrhea after drinking non-boiled water from Istra river 100m down the stream from a farm.
Army has special tablets for desinfection and cleaning water since maybe WWII and now they have small disposable filter tubes, but I have never heard about anyone using thi stuff when hiking. Sometimes I wish we had such tablets, but it happened maybe 3 times since I started hiking seriously in 1987.
Originally posted by Holden McGroin
I think the irradiation technique courtesy of the Chernobyl accident may have helped in the purity of the surface water in your neck of the woods.
I don't think so, If it had influence - it only brought more pollution.
In Southern Urals we once passed a "restricted area" called a "national park" that in fact was a place contaminated with radiation... Huge mosquitoes with 7 legs and giant tasty strawberries. :)
In Khibiny the whole Kukisvumchorr ( I love Saami names) valley was closed because there was an underground nuclear test in 1975. They opened it for hikers in 1992-93 (in 91 it was closed, next time I was there in 94 and it was open). I stood right upon an explosion site, there's a river 100m from it and it's absolutely OK to drink. In the mountains from any river you can drink water without boiling.
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Originally posted by Suave
That's unfortunate, may I ask why? I know that they are commonly used in europe and, believe it or not, himalyas.
Ethanol is for drinking, not for burning as Hang said ;)
"Compass is broken, spirit from compass is drunk, and a crew doesn't recognise each other for some time" :)
But well, a liter of 95% medical alcohol is only 2-4 times more expensive then gasoline, and as you wisely noticed - it's a fuel not only to a stove. ;) I never saw such stuff in hiking stores, only different propane/butane stuff that gets more and more advanced and economical with every year. I have a first-generation stove, using tanks that have no valve and can't be removed before the gas is over, bought it in 1997, it's usefull only to boil one liter or maybe roast eggs in the morning when you go to the forrest on weekend.
It's illegal to sell pure ethanol except in drug-stores in Russia, and they usually sell it in idiotic containers: 100ml or 17 liters (14kg in a 20L plastic canister). One of my friends once had to buy 600 (six hundred) 100ml bottles, they needed to supply 50+ alconauts on lake Seliger.
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Originally posted by Suave
500ml of etoh will boil about 35-40 liters of water depending on outdoor temperature. l[/url]
LOL, I meant 3.5 gallons
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They don't sell denatured alcohol in russia? Or HEET ?
http://www.goldeagle.com/heet/
Both are much cheaper than drinking alcohol, and they are more effecient fuel than drinking alcohol.
I only take drinkable etoh because of it's dual purpose.
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BTW I got to give props to Russian for starting this thread. Good job, I hope you got some usefull information.
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I was a little bit surprised myself about this number ;) Meant that I'll be able to boil 1/3 of my body mass after a serious alcoholiday :D
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Originally posted by Suave
They don't sell denatured alcohol in russia? Or HEET ?
http://www.goldeagle.com/heet/
Both are much cheaper than drinking alcohol, and they are more effecient fuel than drinking alcohol.
I only take drinkable etoh because of it's dual purpose.
We have "white spirit" for lighting barbecue (shahlyk) ovens. Denaturate is probably sold too, I haven't been to an old-style housekeeping store for years.
What is a size of your cooking-pot? Is it possible to boil an 8L (2 gallon) bucket on such a stove?
Another thing we use to make water boil faster is glass fabric sheets to wrap a stove (or a "Primus") and a pot. Makes it heat up several times faster in a wind. It also helped in case a "Primus" exploded.
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No it would not be practical to use a backpacking stove to prepare a meal for more than 2 people.
If you want to try one yourself they can easily be made at home from aluminum cans.
(http://zenstoves.net/Construction/TopBurner.jpg)
(http://hikinghq.net/images/IMG00004.jpg)
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Originally posted by Suave
No it would not be practical to use a backpacking stove to prepare a meal for more than 2 people.
If you want to try one yourself they can easily be made at home from aluminum cans.
Nice stuff, but only for one person indeed. I'l try to make such a thing, I hope I'll not burn alive after consuming more alcohol then I'll pour into this tiny thing :D
When I hiked seriously, I mean - going hiking for 2 to 5 weeks three times a year - I was hiking with a group of kids from a school where I studied, as a second or third leader, "leutenant". I meant that we had 10-15 kids plus 3-6 adults. So such things were useless.
I usually have a small stove for dry fuel, in 3-4cm tablets, but I have only some small quantity of this "dry spirit" left from my Soviet-times stock, and now they don't sell such stuff any more. I used it to boil a 1L mug of water (I use it instead of a dish) for myself or heat up canned meat, still carry it just in case I'll get lost at night going to another forest party near Moscow.
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A stove. Jeez, do you bring the TV too?
Here is my pack for 4 days on the trail:
Framed Allison pack.
Rolled into a bedroll that is 4 foot long so that it wraps around the top of the pack:
2 ea - 8x12 plastic ripstop tarp.
20x20 6 mil poly, clear.
Quilt or wool blanket.
Cotton sheet.
Tied off to the pack:
Camp shoes (Topsiders).
Machete.
Flashlight.
(Possible 2 gallons of canteen capacity, if needed)
On the pack shoulder straps:
2 small pouches, one with my compass, one with a lighter and a pocketknife.
In the Pockets:
2 plastic canteens, both with tin cups.
Lid pocket holds ziplocked toilet paper and parachute cord, as well as my tin eating dish.
The four outside pockets hold:
WII messkit, that includes salt, pepper, tinfoil, washcolth, tabasaco, trashbags, and hobo-silverware.
Survival pocket that contains a firstaid kit, tinned oysters, a knife, compass, water tablets, penlight, and candles, along with a couple of thermal blankets and an extra pair of glasses. I have a roll of 2# leader material along with a few flies and some plain hooks in there as well.
Toiletries pocket, with toothpaste, toothbrush, deoderant, shampoo, and rolaids.
The final pocket is for easy access stuff, like extra cigs, suntan lotion, etc.
Inside the pack:
6 pair socks.
6 underwear underwear.
4 shirts.
1 heavy long sleeve shirt.
1 short pants, 1 long.
2 towels.
2 bottles of Jagermiester
4-6 MRE's broken out of the packaging.
20 candles, at least.
Flashlight.
In addition, we divide up our "fresh" food and carry it in or on the pack. Usually loads out at 50# or so, so it isn't too bad, although it can go to 80 if we can't get water.
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Originally posted by Hangtime
i used tro have trouble with alcohol stoves at higher altitudes. I went back to my old GI gas unit, boils much faster, imho. haven't played with any of the modern ultra-light and small stuff.
The new equipment available simply is so much better I've replaced almost everyone in my kit (except my boots). The MSR Dragonfly is an excellent stove, had mine since they came out and it's excellent (if a bit noisy). New internal packs are unbeatable for comfort. I got a set of titanium pots and they weight about 1/4 as much as my old steel set.... unreal.
Things I'd suggest to think about.
- a waterproof bag for clothes or to hang food in. Kayaking bags are great, I use two of them when I'm out.
- a hiking pole. Saves the knees and helps balance on downhills. Also good to poke things to make sure they are solid before stepping on them.
- some light climbing rope. Use to hang things, clotheslines, tie stuff down, etc. Not really for climbing use but could serve that purpose in case of a fall (had to do this one to pull someone out of a gully).
Think about a guide though for anything more than an overnighter, especially if you are new to this. They tend to provide great advice on equipment and what you should/shouldn't take in a particular area. I've seen some absolutely stupid stuff on trails in my time, some of it pathetically dangerous and some of it funny. Was on the West Coast Trail a couple of years back on the Canadian west coast and a guy had 2 cartons of smokes wrapped in plastic taped to his chest... '
Think necessities though, water, warmth, dry, etc.... the rest of it you can accidently forget and not worry about much.
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Originally posted by Boroda
GPS is a toy. Never used it. I always trust a map (even if it's a faded photo-copied 1937 stuff from GUGK RKKA), a magnetic compass and my own eyes. Orientation on a plain is quite easy. I've won two competitions in night-orientation as a group commander when I was at school, the only trick is to use "linear objects" as checkpoints.
good map and compass skills are great (if you can't use them effectively then your sense of where you are at in relation to your world isn't good enough for you to be navigating on your own in the wilderness.
but the GPS is far from a toy. fog can set into the hills with little or no warning. add that very limited visibility, to the general 'rough estimate' quality of even good wilderness maps, and a few obstacles to set you off the straight line (like a mountain, a canyon or 2, a river, or large windfall trees that have to be negotiated around, and even someone with a great sense of direction can find his map almost useless and his compass not good for much beyond telling you which way north is but not where you are.
the GPS can save your butt, by always giving you a fresh reference for your location instead of letting small errors at each course change adding up to you being hungry, cold, and on the 6-o'clock being marched out of the woods by a team of searchers. or worse.
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Originally posted by Suave
The heater is basically just a plastic bag with a sodium based heating element. Put the foil pack of food into the heater bag and poor a little bit of water into it and 5 minutes later you have a steaming hot lunch.
Oh and for gods sake dont think that steam cant be as hot as it looks. Cause its hotter.
and nothing hurts worse then a steam burn.
So when you look at that steam comming out of the box. Dont think. "hey that looks cool then put your hand down by it to see how hot it is cause a steam burn is exactly what you will get.
trust me. I was that dumb once LOL
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If you are a complete tenderfoot to the wilderness, then Suave's advice is good. Don't go alone on your first multi-day trek into isolated wilderness.
Find an experienced hiker or group who can teach you the outdoor skills that help insure safety and enjoyment. Why take off on your own and wind up with a chaffed crotch and deep heel blisters after the first three hours, or bit by a snake that you don't have any idea whether it's poisonous or not. Are you going to an area where there are ticks (most of the continental US)? Might be nice to know how to avoid Rocky Mountain Spotted Fever - Lymes. I'd suggest going on a few "daylight only" hikes to practice land-navigation and other skills to get used to the wilderness. I'd choose a location with a clear landmark, like a river or obvious mountain peak or something. Get a thorough guidebook on wilderness outings and read it before you go, not during your hike. And as several above have said, take the hi-tech gadgets and practice with them. Use the GPS a few times. Later you can leave it turned off in the bottom of the pack.
Best regards,
Cement
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I appreciate all the help received. As most of you suggested, I will go with a friend and not alone. I will post pictures after the event, which should be sometime this month. Once again, thank you.
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I will be doing an overnight trip in big bend national park this weekend. This is what I'm taking.
tent
poncho
emergency poncho x2
kelty super tioga external frame pack
sleeping pad
poncho liner
shorts
Long sleeve shirt
Tshirt
pants convertable to shorts
liner socks two pair
hiking socks two pair
cocoa mix
coffee grounds
one cup coffee filters
bic lighter x2
water proof matches
water proof matches container
compass
p38
multitool
mess kit
vargo triad stove
fuel 500ml
2.8 liter colapsable canteen x2
2 liter douch bag
44ml fluoride rinse
clever tooth brush (contains paste)
120ml biodegradable camp soap
two small diswashing sponges
dental floss
1 bottle of 50 iodine tablets (Potable Aqua)
1 bottle of 50 vitiman C tables (PA plus)
1 3 LED head lamp
sugar
folding 12"x6" camp fire grill (with duct tape or aluminum foil doubles as windscreen for alcohol stove)
lexan fork spoon and knife
toilet paper 1/2 roll
folded aluminum foil
mirror (on compass)
jungle boots
plastic whistle
bunch of plastic trash bags
bunch of ziploc freezer bags
light weight 8'x5' tarp (tent foot)
cell phone
miniature e-tool
all-weather notepad
pen
protractor
maps (purchased from ranger station)
bandana
leather gloves
50ft spectra cord
30ml 100% DEET spray
Duct tape (wrapped around fuel bottle)
travel size deoderant (19.8g)
Package of bathing wet wipes
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First aid kit. Basically this is my civilianized aid bag, I've taken out all of the things that I can't legally
use on civilians, and all of the heavier equipment. For some reason though it still has IR chemlights in it. Don't know what to do with them.
alcohol wipes
betadine wipes
betadine oint
betadine applicators
betadine solution
tincture of benzoin applicators
sterile applicators
moleskin
foam padded aluminum splint tape
cravats
GI field dressings
neomycin oint
guaze pads, 2x2s, 4x4s
abdominal field dressing
petroleum guaze
ace wraps asorted sizes
kerlex gauze rolls 2" and 4"
all purpose instrument tray
gloves, sterile and aseptic
safety pins
steri strips
bandaids
eye dressings
#11 and #10 blades
oral airway
tylenol 325mg tablets
motrin 200mg tablets
benadryl 25mg tablets
naproxen 220mg tablets
imodium tablets
ruber venous turniquets
super glue
psuedophed 30mg tablets
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Originally posted by Suave
tent
What model? Do you have a link/picture? This (http://www.oktopus.ru/tent/sierra.htmhttp://) is what I have, bought it in 1996, current model has some improvements - but my old "coffin" is still good enough to protect me from rain and cold.
Originally posted by Suave
poncho
emergency poncho x2
Poncho is a Latin-American coat with a hole for a head. The only thing similar to this description is my rain-coat.
Originally posted by Suave
kelty super tioga external frame pack
Yes! An external frame backpack. Would you be so kind to give a link or a picture? What is the internal volume? Mine is 120L, at least I don't feel like I have to save space not weight...
[...skip...]
Originally posted by Suave
p38
You mean - Walter P38?!... As for two-legged predators - I usually have a leather belt under my backpack cover so I can pull it out in one second, an ordinary army buckle with "hammer, sickle and a star" (it's so touching: hammer, sickle and a star ;)) is a great weapon, and I had a 400g copper buckle made in a prison camp - it was a reason enough to get arrested if militia catches me with a belt twisted afound my fist...
From some experience, fortunately - not my personal, it's impossible to do anything if some village boys collapse your tent and start to massage your with their boots. :(
Originally posted by Suave
multitool
I carry a "repair kit" since when I hiked with kids, including almost anything needed to rpair boots, tents and other stuff.
Originally posted by Suave
mess kit
What's this?
[...skip...]
Originally posted by Suave
folding 12"x6" camp fire grill (with duct tape or aluminum foil doubles as windscreen for alcohol stove)
12"x6" is too small for our groups of 15-20 people. I have a 80cm/30cm campfire grill, and a steel cord for our big campfires, that are usually made of 3 logs 2m long/0.5m thick.
We use stoves (powerfull to boil 8L pot in 20min) only going too high, and we use glass fabric as windscreens.
Other stuff is almost common, except deodorant. I prefer to smell like a campfire. If I get dirty, I mean - really dirty, no deodorant will help, it will be something like "someone crapped under a pine-tree" ;)
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My $.02:
If your cell phone works, you aren't backpacking.
If you can't use a compass, you shouldn't be backpacking (nothing against GPS, use one myself, I just don't view it as essential gear).
Small stove not fire: Fires ruin night vision, stink, destroy cooking gear, require a lot of effort, are subject to restrictions depending on drought conditions, can't be relied upon in or after rain, introduce a significant risk of injury (not just in messing with the fire itself, but in collecting and breaking up fuel), and frankly just don't cook well.
Small water filter (I like the Sweetwater).
Leave guns at home. Backpack to backpack. Drive to safe place for shooting. Guns are heavy, not likely to be usefull, and even though I'm sure you're a safety-first person, any opportunity to hurt yourself or someone else 15mi from the nearest road should be avoided. Other folks backpacking in area will hate you because of noise and they're not knowing whether they can trust that you are being responsible and ensuring your rounds are being stopped by a well chosen earth backstop rather than whizzing through the trees.
If bears are anywhere in area, bring bearproof canister for food (and don't sleep with food anywhere near your tent).
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Here (http://www.podosinki.ru/1may2004/05020005.JPG) is a picture of our campfire, not too big, almost burnt-out, but I hope you'll get an idea ;)
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Originally posted by Samiam
My $.02:
If your cell phone works, you aren't backpacking.
Exactly! Unfortunately for last several years I am limited to our traditional meeteing places 80-100km from Msk, and my bloody cellular works, so I turn it off, or I'll ge some stupid calls about printer not printing and mouse not mouseing.
Originally posted by Samiam
If you can't use a compass, you shouldn't be backpacking (nothing against GPS, use one myself, I just don't view it as essential gear).
I started hiking at the times when we had only tarpaulin tents and cotton wool sleeping bags... What GPS?! A polyethylene cover for a tarp tent was a hi-tech. And I don't rely on anything that needs batterys and carry a hand-dynamo flashlight with me.
Originally posted by Samiam
Small stove not fire: Fires ruin night vision, stink, destroy cooking gear, require a lot of effort, are subject to restrictions depending on drought conditions, can't be relied upon in or after rain, introduce a significant risk of injury (not just in messing with the fire itself, but in collecting and breaking up fuel), and frankly just don't cook well.
You don't need night vision with a good campfire, see a oic I posted above. Cooking gear we use is designed for a campfire, if you don't leave pots empty over fire they last for decades. In case of a draught - you have to be carefull yourself, restrictions are out of question if you don;t want to burn in a forest fire. Collecting and breaking fuel may be dangerous only if you use a fast way and break dry logs with a heavy stone, it's 10 times faster then axe or saw, but you have to be agile to escape a piece of wood flying into your forehead :) Usually we cut down 3-4 dry pines, saw them into 2m logs and it's enough for a good campfire for a night.
[...skip...] - firearms are out of question here. I never had anything then a "start" pistol (noise gun) with my group, and only once we needed it in a heavy fog, shooting to show the direction to our "scouts".
Originally posted by Samiam
If bears are anywhere in area, bring bearproof canister for food (and don't sleep with food anywhere near your tent).
I have never seen a bear outside a zoo or circus in my whole life. And I have travelled all over the former Union, from Carpathians to Baikal and from Kola peninsula arctic mountains to Crimea. Never have been to Central Asian republics, and I think that I'll probably never have an opportunity again :(
The only animals I really suffered from were chipmunks. They ate through one of the tents and ate from our rice and buckwheat. And the only animal that could endanger my life was a wild pig.
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Boroda here is my poncho
(http://www.usarmy.cz/produkty/ponca/01_035zelena_n_bb.jpg)
It can be connected to this poncho liner quilt to create a light weight sleeping bag type thing.
(http://www.thatchreed.com/images/waterproofs/poncho_liner.jpg)
here is type of tent I have
(http://www.campmor.com/images/tents/larger/23786_l.jpg)
emergency poncho is very small made of clear plastic, in package about the same size as cigarette pack. I carry them just in case somebody needs one.
My backpack, I love it, I wanted it for so long, it took me a long time, but finally it's mine. It's 4900 cubic inches, that translates to 80 liters.
(http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B0002HM7GQ.01-A2JRY5GMFK3GWT._SCLZZZZZZZ_.jpg)
P38 is a can opener. Soldiers named it p38 in wwII because it looks like front sight of german p38 pistol I think
(http://www.maddogonline.com/images/items/18087.jpg)
Mess kit is pot, pan, and cup.
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Originally posted by Boroda
Here (http://www.podosinki.ru/1may2004/05020005.JPG) is a picture of our campfire, not too big, almost burnt-out, but I hope you'll get an idea ;)
Looks like fun, I like to have a campfire when ever it's possible. Doesn't really feel like you are camping when you can't make one.
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Candles work for those places. I always carry flashlights, but prefer to use beer can reflectors and candles. Coleman lanterns are for gigging flounder, not camping.
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Originally posted by Suave
Boroda here is my poncho
I have an exactly the same thing, only slightly different colour :) here we call it "nakidka", a "raincoat". I have a fluff (down?) sleeping-bag, I keep it dry and usually keep it under the outer tent.
Originally posted by Suave
here is type of tent I have
(http://www.campmor.com/images/tents/larger/23786_l.jpg)
Hehe, looks almost the same to my tent :) Not very comfortable for simply staying at one place drinking and singing songs, but it's light and reliable and easy to erect. Mine is 2.5kg with all stuff. And it has two exits with "outer" compartments where i keep my backpack and boots. Also quite comforpable to open it in the morning and smoke into a door at the side.
Originally posted by Suave
My backpack, I love it, I wanted it for so long, it took me a long time, but finally it's mine. It's 4900 cubic inches, that translates to 80 liters.
An old, reliable and comfortable design. It's at least 1500 years old. Some tribes at Far East have a similar frame and bag design called "ponyaga". I was really surprised when I found it out.
I had almost the same thing (including same pockets at the sides) for 10 years, called "Yermak" (Yermak was a Cossack leader who conquered Siberia), had three of them, they were made of tarpaulin (costed 25 rubles, nylon version was 50). Got rid of a last one after I broke the frame under the weight :D Now I have a more robust backpack, frame is hand-made of thicher aluminium pipes, the center of gravity is lower, but it's much bigger. I need to buy another one if I'll go to the mountains - mine is now almost torn apart, it's 11 years old now...
Originally posted by Suave
P38 is a can opener. Soldiers named it p38 in wwII because it looks like front sight of german p38 pistol I think
Nice and light thing, but I have my "Finnish knife" and I can open anything with it. We carry can-openers only in a group "kitchen kit".
Originally posted by Suave
Mess kit is pot, pan, and cup.
We call it something like a KLMN (in Russian ABC this letters are one after another). I have a set of 2 pots (I said - 8L + 5L), but I don't always carry it with me, a 1L tin mug instead of a deep dish and a Chinese vaccum/thermal 400grams mug for tea/vodka. (in case of vodka I certainly don't top it, I pour standard 50-100gram shots) ;) And a spoon always in my pocket - the most important thing after a mug ;)
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Forgot to post this picture, an emblem of our "camping" place 80km from Moscow, where we simply relax on weekends, and you understand how we relax:
(http://www.podosinki.ru/main.jpg)
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pack more socks.
as a rule of thumb I usually pack at least twice as many socks as pants and shirts or at least 2 pair per day.
when I was younger(single) and used to do longer backpacking trips, I changed my socks every time we stopped for a meal.
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Finally I had enough time and went on a 3 days / 2 nights hike with a friend. We started at GPL thought Gabrillino Trail and ending at Arcadia. First day we went 5 miles, second 10 miles and third 15 miles(Highest alt around 6500 feet). Since this was my first time, of cause, I over-packed. But lesson learned. Here are some pictures.
(http://pages.sbcglobal.net/simfreak/pics/DSC03950.jpg)
(http://pages.sbcglobal.net/simfreak/pics/DSC03968.jpg)
(http://pages.sbcglobal.net/simfreak/pics/DSC03970.jpg)
(http://pages.sbcglobal.net/simfreak/pics/DSC03988.jpg)
(http://pages.sbcglobal.net/simfreak/pics/100_0463.jpg)
(http://pages.sbcglobal.net/simfreak/pics/100_0488.jpg)
(http://pages.sbcglobal.net/simfreak/pics/100_0517.jpg)
(http://pages.sbcglobal.net/simfreak/pics/100_0530.jpg)
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bring a good knife but dont run with it.
take 2 extra sets of matches wrapped in plastic, and have one set in your pants and one in your jacket/vest
skip the camo jacket and get something in a bright and easy to see color
make sure you tell people when you are supposed be back and were you are going (general area atleast)
good and well used boots
bring plenty of time to enjoy it all :)