Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Raider179 on July 30, 2005, 04:31:57 PM
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White House press secretary Scott McClellan said Friday that Bush will leave after signing into law the Central American Free Trade Agreement that Congress gave final approval to earlier this week.
It will be the president's 50th trip to the ranch since he was elected nearly five years ago.
Why does Bush go to Texas so often? 50 trips in 5 years? that is 10 times a year or almost 1 time a month. I havent seen it said so I will, I think he is scared something is gonna happen in Washington D.C. and he doesnt want to be there when it does.
Doesnt instill a lot of confidence in the Homeland Security department now does it? Or maybe he just likes to vacation all the time. Sorry but I am not gonna buy that it is just as easy for him to run the country from Texas as the White House. To me its all about perception and the perception I get is he is scared of a terrorist attack or he really just likes vacations. He should be walking the streets of DC to show Americans wont be bullied or scared of Terrorists but instead he goes to his ranch. Maybe they are winning. Where is a brave, courageous leader when we need one? I want one who stands on the steps of Congress and says he won't be scared out of town. One who only leaves DC to go overseas or on official business.
Sorry don't mean to rip bush so badly but I think it again shows where his true feelings lie when it comes to the war on terror and his ability to lead.
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:rolleyes:
'nuff said
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Originally posted by Captain Virgil Hilts
:rolleyes:
'nuff said
wow that is an insightful reply... :rolleyes:
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Huhhh hmmmmmmmmmm
Texas IS the country!!!!!!!!!:p
J/K
He can't walk the streets. He'd be dead. Now some may say that is being a chicken. I say it is being smart and common sense. Rarely is the President ever on vacation when he is here in Texas. He is always doing the nations business. Medias calls it what they percieve it to be. But of he comes here to Texas , out of 10 times a year here , I would say 8 of those he is doing aloty of work. The other 2 possibly more relaxing than work.
Not to mention it's Dove season soon. Bow season for deer soon. Then Muzzle loading season for deer. Then 2.5 months of regular gun season for deer.
Temps are coming down.....in about 2 more months or so.
and ....The Stars at night are big and bright....Deep in the heart of Texas. :lol
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jesus cripes on roller skates! the miserable lil monkey is president of the the united states, king of the free world and emperor of space.
if the doofus lil donutwood wants to hide under the mattress in his texas bunkhouse he's entitled.
literally.
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It would be a whole lot easier to kill him in Texas than in Washington, and has been noted, he does the Nations business where ever he is. Note also that he has held very few State dinners, but has had as many meetings with foreign leaders (many at the Texas ranch) as anyone. His method is different, but it isn't like he is on a vacation, by any means.
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Originally posted by Lizking
It would be a whole lot easier to kill him in Texas than in Washington, and has been noted, he does the Nations business where ever he is. Note also that he has held very few State dinners, but has had as many meetings with foreign leaders (many at the Texas ranch) as anyone. His method is different, but it isn't like he is on a vacation, by any means.
1) I dont see how you say its easier to kill him in Texas.
2)DC is a target and for him to spend most of his time away from there, well it doesnt exactly send the right message to the citizens of DC now does it?
3)Vacation is only a small part of it. I am more concerned about how it looks like he is hiding.
4)Anyone find any info on other presidents taking so many trips to their home while in office? How about a wartime president?
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Originally posted by Raider179
I want one who stands on the steps of Congress and says he won't be scared out of town. One who only leaves DC to go overseas or on official business.
Why does the president need to be in DC? If he can't telecommute who can?
I'd like the congress to be required to stay in their districts and do all their work on line. It would make lobbists job a lot tougher and make seeing my congressman / senator a lot easier.
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Originally posted by Lizking
It would be a whole lot easier to kill him in Texas than in Washington, and has been noted, he does the Nations business where ever he is. Note also that he has held very few State dinners, but has had as many meetings with foreign leaders (many at the Texas ranch) as anyone. His method is different, but it isn't like he is on a vacation, by any means.
damn liz, yer a regular reveloutionary genius! the black suburbans will be outside any minute now... ;)
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If you've ever been to DC, you'd take Texas over DC for doing your business.....
Raider, 3.5 more years, get used to it. ;)
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I have nothing to add or subtract from this thread.
I was not here, you did not read this.
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Generally, if you are going to hide, you don't tell the world where you are hiding, especially when it is a small ranch in the scrub country of Central Texas. In addition, if it is a vacation, you do not schedule visits of heads of state, or do appearances.
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Originally posted by Holden McGroin
Why does the president need to be in DC? If he can't telecommute who can?
I'd like the congress to be required to stay in their districts and do all their work on line. It would make lobbists job a lot tougher and make seeing my congressman / senator a lot easier.
Because DC is a 1 of the top 2 targets in our country. Because He is our leader. Because it makes him look like he's scared. Because it doesnt instill confidence that he hides in Texas. His ability to perform his function as President does not concern me. It is the impression I think he gives that they scared him out of town.
Agreed about congress though. Sounds like a good idea.
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Originally posted by Lizking
Generally, if you are going to hide, you don't tell the world where you are hiding, especially when it is a small ranch in the scrub country of Central Texas. In addition, if it is a vacation, you do not schedule visits of heads of state, or do appearances.
George W. and Laura Bush purchased around 1600 acres just outside of Crawford in 1999.
1600 acres is not small.
crawford population 630
Being in a small county is good for protection. Anyone who doesnt belong is going to look out of place really quick.
Like I said its not about vacation, its about perception that he has been scared out of DC.
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The mans home is in Texas and home is where your heart is. I damn sure wouldnt want to spend most of my time in that God forsaken sespool called Washington DC when I could be at my own ranch! Plus if youve ever seen his ranch you wouldnt ask why he likes to spend so much time there. Another reason is Texas is Bush country. Any terrorist attack on his ranch would end up with several million angry rednecks chasing the attacker down and hanging them from the tallest tree with the shortest rope they can find. :aok
P.S. Im from Texas..... and I whole heartedly support our president and our troops!
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Texas has trees?
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Deleted - rule #5.
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Originally posted by WindX
The mans home is in Texas and home is where your heart is. I damn sure wouldnt want to spend most of my time in that God forsaken sespool called Washington DC when I could be at my own ranch! Plus if youve ever seen his ranch you wouldnt ask why he likes to spend so much time there. Another reason is Texas is Bush country. Any terrorist attack on his ranch would end up with several million angry rednecks chasing the attacker down and hanging them from the tallest tree with the shortest rope they can find. :aok
P.S. Im from Texas..... and I whole heartedly support our president and our troops!
Yeah its more important for the President to relax and be comfy than to actually be a Leader, leading from the White House. :rolleyes:
When you become president I would expect that you would forgo certain things while you served your country. But it seems like Bush thinks he is doing the country a favor by being president.
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1600 acres is barely a "ranch" in that part of the World.
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Deleted - rule#5.
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Originally posted by Lizking
1600 acres is barely a "ranch" in that part of the World.
yeah but its not a comparison. Its a big ranch.
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Originally posted by Lizking
It would be a whole lot easier to kill him in Texas than in Washington
Yep.
Why wouldn`t or shouldn`t he come to Texas whenever he desires?
He enjoys Texas and rightly so.
I think we need to move the whitehouse to Texas, where it belongs. :) That way if things get too sticky everywhere else in the country, the prez could just say that Texas was never legaly annexed into the U.S. and tell everyone outside the Lonestar state that they were on their own. lol
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Wow.
Laz is an unamerican bigot with latent homophobe tendancies.
And Raider is a gay georgia peach redneck.
I learn SO much on this BBS!
;)
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Deleted - rule #5.
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Deleted - rule #5
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Raider...Let me ask ya this Bud....
If this was John Kerry and he was headed back to Mass. for lets say the 5th time since the election...would you worry about tis hiding thing?
Just a question. :)
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Originally posted by Captain Virgil Hilts
Every bit as insightful and intelligent as that BS drivel you post.
Yes, you DO intend to "rip" Bush so "badly". At least have the balls to admit it. And while you're at it, admit you do a crappy job as well. Bush could cure cancer and eliminate the national debt and you'd whine about how and when he did it.
Yeah facts are drivel.
Care to point me to another president that made so many trips to his personal home, during the course of the presidency?
How about During a time of war?
Bush curing cancer lol he said he is going to veto the stem cell bill
eliminating the debt, well we will see. By his own words today he said it will be in half by 2009. When is his term over again?
But then again you are mentioning Ifs and those are really big ifs.
I like my leadership to take a leadership role and to fulfill that role in the Nations Capital, Not in his little hiding spot in texas.
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Originally posted by RedTop
Raider...Let me ask ya this Bud....
If this was John Kerry and he was headed back to Mass. for lets say the 5th time since the election...would you worry about tis hiding thing?
Just a question. :)
I dont think it would matter to me pre 9/11 that the president spent a lot of time not in the Capital. But since DC became a target it appears to be that he tries his hardest to be there as least as possible.
Yes it would bother me just as much.
I like my President to live, work, and operate in the Capital. It's called leading the entire country. Hell Cheney even hid for how many years? Is he still in hiding too?
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The only president to live, work, and operate in DC was that Homeless piece of Arkansas White Trash Clinton.
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No offense to Arkansas, it is a great place, other than electing Clinton to office.
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Raider none of your earlier rants against Bush have convinced me of his evilness.
Until now.
Bush truly is evil!!! :mad:
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So far all I can see is one person who has no personal knowledge of the situation claiming the Pres. is scared because he goes home an average of once a month. Exactly where does this critical information come from. Interviews? Personal observation of his diary? Conversation with any of the cabinet? Monitoring the use of tranquilizers? Consulting with psychics? Or just your lil ol imagination?
HHHMMM seems to me most folks go home just about every day from work. When they work away from home they often go home at the end of the week. Gee and he only goes once a month?!?!?
The only place he can lead from is in DC?!?!?! BWAHAHAHAHAHA
What a maroon to think something like that when the Pres. has all the communications available to him even in his freaking plane. Now what is the difference between taking a phone call in Texas vs DC? Same question for a fax, telex, email and plain ol' snail mail?
:rolleyes:
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Originally posted by Raider179
I dont think it would matter to me pre 9/11 that the president spent a lot of time not in the Capital. But since DC became a target it appears to be that he tries his hardest to be there as least as possible.
Yes it would bother me just as much.
I like my President to live, work, and operate in the Capital. It's called leading the entire country. Hell Cheney even hid for how many years? Is he still in hiding too?
Oh no, not true. He was on vacation 95% of the time before 911. It must be true. Mike Moore said so in F911...
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Originally posted by Maverick
So far all I can see is one person who has no personal knowledge of the situation claiming the Pres. is scared because he goes home an average of once a month. Exactly where does this critical information come from. Interviews? Personal observation of his diary? Conversation with any of the cabinet? Monitoring the use of tranquilizers? Consulting with psychics? Or just your lil ol imagination?
HHHMMM seems to me most folks go home just about every day from work. When they work away from home they often go home at the end of the week. Gee and he only goes once a month?!?!?
The only place he can lead from is in DC?!?!?! BWAHAHAHAHAHA
What a maroon to think something like that when the Pres. has all the communications available to him even in his freaking plane. Now what is the difference between taking a phone call in Texas vs DC? Same question for a fax, telex, email and plain ol' snail mail?
:rolleyes:
maybe you just didnt read. I get it from observation.
"To me its all about perception and the perception I get is he is scared of a terrorist attack or he really just likes vacations"
LOL how many times have you got into a subject on here that you didn't have any "personal information" on?
The White House is his home for his term.
The president isn't "most Folks."
I doubt it is just as easy to run the country from Texas as it is from the White House. He flew back to sign the Shiavo bill didn't he? There are things he cannot do in Texas that he can in DC.
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Find something important to waste your brain cells worrying about.
Trying to find nitpicking things to slam the President on paints a sad picture of a person.
dago
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Originally posted by Captain Virgil Hilts
Every bit as insightful and intelligent as that BS drivel you post.
Yes, you DO intend to "rip" Bush so "badly". At least have the balls to admit it. And while you're at it, admit you do a crappy job as well. Bush could cure cancer and eliminate the national debt and you'd whine about how and when he did it.
just so you quote me properly let me help ya
"Sorry don't mean to rip bush so badly but I think it again shows where his true feelings lie when it comes to the war on terror and his ability to lead."
See that part that Says "BUT" that is an admission.
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You guys ain't thinkin' right.
Here's the reason for all of President Bush's trips to Texas.
If something's going to happen, Bush wants it to happen in Texas.
Texas is a state that has a justice system, a death penalty and THEY USE IT!!!!
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Originally posted by Blooz
You guys ain't thinkin' right.
Here's the reason for all of President Bush's trips to Texas.
If something's going to happen, Bush wants it to happen in Texas.
Texas is a state that has a justice system, a death penalty and THEY USE IT!!!!
1st reasonable answer I have seen lol ;)
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Musta missed the part where they have to run the Presidential
itinerary by Raider179. Which would be especially fascinating as
I am virtually certain he voted for the other guy anyway ;)
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Originally posted by Rino
Musta missed the part where they have to run the Presidential
itinerary by Raider179. Which would be especially fascinating as
I am virtually certain he voted for the other guy anyway ;)
I guess in your world people aren't entitled to opinions. It's my opinion. Did churchill stay in london during ww2 or did he go hide out in the country somewhere?
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I read somewhere that the only President to vacation more than Dubya was FDR. He was in office much longer than Bush and most of his "vacations" were to his polio rehab in Warm Springs, Ga.
Most Presidents vacation at Camp David just outside D.C. where they can conduct business without having to fly everyone 2000 miles for every meeting.
Oh, and for those uninformed, Dubya is from Connecticut, not Texas. He's what we native Texans call a carpetbagger.
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Buy Texas Beef, Not GWB Baloney.
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Originally posted by rpm
Most Presidents vacation at Camp David just outside D.C. where they can conduct business without having to fly everyone 2000 miles for every meeting.
I wonder how much of that costs the taxpayers? 50 trips on airforce 1. Thats gotta be quite a tab. Guess some don't care if the President uses their money for his little trips.
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Nevermind found it. That was easy.
While the actual costs are hidden, it is an undeniable bargain for the Nethercutt campaign. Taxpayers will pickup much of the cost of the trip, including the largest share of the $35,000 per hour cost of operating Air Force One .
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/national/178018_bush16.html
What is it a 2 hours flight to texas from DC? 70k each way he goes? Thats nice. lol
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He could take Greyhound, I suppose.
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Originally posted by Lizking
He could take Greyhound, I suppose.
You are missing the point. He could just stay at the white house. I am not saying he should never leave, but 10 times a year to texas is ridiculous.
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It's hard work.
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yup. de-foliating the victory ranch sure is tuff work.
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I dont see his trips to Texas as hiding from or him looking like he is scared of anything at all.
Actually to me it makes him look like he's not worried about it more then scared
Probably just as easy to get him in texas at DC.
He could spend his entire presidency in Texas at his ranch for all I care
I learned a long long time ago "Perception" is usually 90% BS.
that is 90% of what we or anyone perceives is probably no where near what the real story is.
"Perception" is just a way and an excuse for people to see or think what they want to reguardless of what the truth is.
Its BS
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Down with perception!
Long live the memo!
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Originally posted by DREDIOCK
"Perception" is just a way and an excuse for people to see or think what they want to reguardless of what the truth is.
Yep and the terrorists could use that perception as a recruiting tool.
But dont forget the $70,000+ each way it costs AF 1 to go to crawford. at 50 trips thats what only 7 million of taxpayers money being used for him to take his little trips to Texas. For some of you die hard conservatives I ask, Would you say the same if Clinton had spent that kind of money flying to Arkansas every month? Actually its retorical I already know you would jump on Clinton for it. Have a nice morning :)
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so "raider" who were you before and why are you hiding behind a new persona?
lazs
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I wouldn't walk the streets of D.C. are you crazy? To many crack heads and way to much crime.
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DC might get better now.. I hear that despite the democrat efforts to keep the ban that.... DC citizens will soon be able to own handguns again?
lazs
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Originally posted by lazs2
DC might get better now.. I hear that despite the democrat efforts to keep the ban that.... DC citizens will soon be able to own handguns again?
lazs
Yep, its not quite there though, has to pass through the senate.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/06/30/AR2005063001793.html
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Lol!
Test question: Who took the most expensive Presidential trip ever?
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"If you take out the killings, Washington actually has a very very low crime rate." -- Actual quote : Marion Barry, Mayor of Washington, DC
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Originally posted by Toad
Lol!
Test question: Who took the most expensive Presidential trip ever?
Clinton, 1998.
Edit: Here's the info
Clinton, 186 days during seven years as president; former President Reagan, 84 days during eight years, and former President Bush, 86 days during four years.
The GAO said Clinton's six-nation trip to Africa from March 22 through April 2 last year cost $42.8 million, not counting Secret Service expenses, salaries of government workers involved and agency planning expenses.
A total of 1,302 government employees from 12 federal agencies or departments, including 16 members of Congress, accompanied Clinton to Africa. The biggest share of the cost, $37.7 million, came from the Defense Department's budget.
White House spokesman Joe Lockhart called criticism of the African trip "paritulcarly shortsighted," saying the senators "are trying to find a political issue to raise and are mission the point of the whole trip." (WAVES TO RAIDER! ;) )
"The president raveled Africa like no U.S. president has traveled before, really providing new insights for the American public on Africa, and new insights for the African public on America and our role," Lockhart said. "It, in time, will be seen as a groundbreaking trip in terms of our relationships."
The GAO report also found that:
-Clinton's five-day trip to Chile in April 1998 cost $10.5 million. It included 592 officials from 13 federal agencies or departments.
-The China trip, from June 25 through July 3 last year, cost $18.8 million and included 510 officials from 11 agencies or departments.
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yep... fair to note here that despite raiders Bush bashing.... It is the democrats who are unanimously fighting any gun measure that might make the bloodbath DC any safer..
lazs
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I think you are wrong, Rip. There was a more expensive trip.
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Originally posted by rpm
Oh, and for those uninformed, Dubya is from Connecticut, not Texas. He's what we native Texans call a carpetbagger.
Just a quick question here. What term would you use to refer to hillary clintoon being that she "moved" from Arkansas to NY?
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Originally posted by lazs2
yep... fair to note here that despite raiders Bush bashing.... It is the democrats who are unanimously fighting any gun measure that might make the bloodbath DC any safer..
lazs
Laz,
Now you KNOW that the dems and feinstein know far better than anyone else and they are absolutely required to tell people how to live. Now shutup and get back in the back of the bus and stop whining about those stupid inconsequential things like the bill of rights. Next those will be replaced with the far more correct and enforcable bill of lefts.
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The REAL reason he does it is to make the whackos that are obsessed with him go into convulsions and slobber all over themselves.
Hey, look, it works, too!
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Originally posted by Maverick
Just a quick question here. What term would you use to refer to hillary clintoon being that she "moved" from Arkansas to NY?
Exiled. :)
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Originally posted by Toad
Lol!
Test question: Who took the most expensive Presidential trip ever?
Teddy Roosevelt? African Safari?
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Originally posted by Raider179
Yep and the terrorists could use that perception as a recruiting tool.
But dont forget the $70,000+ each way it costs AF 1 to go to crawford. at 50 trips thats what only 7 million of taxpayers money being used for him to take his little trips to Texas. For some of you die hard conservatives I ask, Would you say the same if Clinton had spent that kind of money flying to Arkansas every month? Actually its retorical I already know you would jump on Clinton for it. Have a nice morning :)
Ahh but our perceptions are different I dont perceive him as looking scared at all. You do.
God only knows how the terrorists perceive him as they dont think like either of us.
70K? LMAO a mere drop in the bucket compaired to some of the things congress decides to piss money away on.
In 2004 for example they approved a $388.4-billion spending bill with an $80,000 earmark for the San Diego Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Transgender Community Center.
And Medicaid spent $38 million on drugs for erectile dysfunction.
Not to mention money for studies like the sex habits of the elderly.
and those are only a few of the less absurd examples of waste
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Originally posted by Hangtime
Teddy Roosevelt? African Safari?
I think Teddy was in Africa after his term.
If you measure in non-monetary terms, JFK's Dallas trip was fairly expensive.
LBJ's trip around the world with a stop on RVN probably cost a bunch.
Nixon's Moscow or Bejing trip.
after inflation those are my guesses..
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Depending on whose numbers you use, it was Bill's "Farewell Tour" of Bangladesh, India, Pakistan, Oman, and Switzerland in March of 2000,
Of course, Nash will say it's unfair to bring this up but... here you are:
In March 2000, the President, with Chelsea and his mother-in-law, took a trip to Bangladesh, India, Pakistan, Oman, and Switzerland. The SRPC noted that both ABC News' World News Tonight and the Air Force Times estimated the cost of the trip at $50 million, a record for the cost of an overseas trip by a president. Used on the trip were 14 C-17 Globemaster IIIs, 12 C-5 Galaxys, 3 C-141 Starlifters, and 2 C-130 Hercules. A large number of other Air Force planes were to deploy.
ABC News' John McWethy filed this report:
"Ninety percent of the costs [cited by the World New Tonight anchor at $50 million] are for airplanes, drawn from an Air Force that is already stressed meeting military and humanitarian commitments overseas. When a President travels, all the public ever sees is Air Force One, but consider this: Seventy-seven other Air Force planes are being used on this one trip, including 26 of the biggest transports, C-5s and C-17s."
"Military sources say that represents more than one-third of the Air Force's entire inventory of these planes that are ready to fly on any given day."
When the President took trips in 1998 to Chile, China, and Africa, the tab came to $72 million. Over sixty million came from the defense budget.
One could argue that Bill Clinton's trips were related to official business. But it appears that what he really wanted to do was to take his own taxpayer-funded Cook's World Tour at the expense of the Pentagon budget. Clinton press secretary Joe Lockhart said at a White House press briefing on October 19, 1999 that his boss had yet to visit Panama, then added: "There are a few places still left on the list he hasn't been, and we have 15 months to rectify that." If the defense budget was not so parched back then, then Bill Clinton's trips might not be an issue.
http://www.freecongress.org/commentaries/2002/021205PW.asp
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So, to sum up this thread for our good friend Raider179 (who seems suspiciously absent from this thread now...) :
(http://www.bimmerfest.com/photos/data/500/450118197confused-med.jpg)
(http://www.raceworx.com/imabandwidththief/dude-owned.jpg)
(http://forumspam.articblue.nl/user_related/owned/images/0289.jpg)
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Originally posted by lazs2
so "raider" who were you before and why are you hiding behind a new persona?
lazs
You are so full of yourself its getting ridiculous. I have always been raider. Sorry if you are looking for anything to try to dissuade me or discredit me. Maybe you should work in the Bush administration, you would fit right in.
You don't like my views? Tough.
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Originally posted by Xargos
I wouldn't walk the streets of D.C. are you crazy? To many crack heads and way to much crime.
Maybe you would feel differently if you had a Presidential Secret Service contingent accompanying you?
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Originally posted by Toad
Lol!
Test question: Who took the most expensive Presidential trip ever?
See lol Now there is the outrage I have been waiting on. I think this strikes you guys at home because it shows you have a double standard. ohhh Clinton spent money on a trip to china, but it wasnt as much as bush so its ok. Where is your being upset at millions being spent to take bush to Texas and back?
I will say Clinton went way overboard on that trip. But I neither expect or think that you would be willing to say the same about Bush's 50 trips to texas.
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Originally posted by lazs2
yep... fair to note here that despite raiders Bush bashing.... It is the democrats who are unanimously fighting any gun measure that might make the bloodbath DC any safer..
lazs
This is not a gun thread. But I do know how much you enjoy talking about them. If you think there arent fire-arms in DC or that they cant be had, You are naive. All you have to do is leave DC and get one. But I wont discuss guns anymore in this thread unless you can make it relevant, which you have had a hard time doing as of late.
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Originally posted by Raider179
See lol Now there is the outrage I have been waiting on. I think this strikes you guys at home because it shows you have a double standard. ohhh Clinton spent money on a trip to china, but it wasnt as much as bush so its ok. Where is your being upset at millions being spent to take bush to Texas and back?
I will say Clinton went way overboard on that trip. But I neither expect or think that you would be willing to say the same about Bush's 50 trips to texas.
Ahh, dude, 7 million is expected as a taxpayer, and a bargain at that. THere are no double standards present. The double standard would be if Bush had spent as much as Clinton, THEN it would be a double standard.
72 million in one trip is certainly more than 7 million for 50 trips. Do the math.
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Originally posted by DREDIOCK
70K? LMAO a mere drop in the bucket compaired to some of the things congress decides to piss money away on.
Umm this is about Bush, not congress. OH I see so its ok to waste money as long as it's not as much as congress wastes.
:rolleyes:
Whats funny is some of you are the same ones who complain about tax dollars being wasted, yet here is a clear example of needless spending by Bush and you all look the other way. Making excuses like "congress wastes more" and "He can do it just as efficeintly as in DC"
Fine if he can lead from Texas, lead from there. Quit wasting tax dollars though flying back and forth every damn month.
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Originally posted by Ripsnort
So, to sum up this thread for our good friend Raider179 (who seems suspiciously absent from this thread now...) :
Did you even look at the last time I posted? 5 am. Sorry bro but I gotta sleep sometime.
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Originally posted by Ripsnort
Ahh, dude, 7 million is expected as a taxpayer, and a bargain at that. THere are no double standards present. The double standard would be if Bush had spent as much as Clinton, THEN it would be a double standard.
72 million in one trip is certainly more than 7 million for 50 trips. Do the math.
How many countries did Clinton go to? When presidents go overseas they require support. This includes presidential choppers, limo's, and all the secret service people and equipment.
I said it was bad to spend so much blatantly. It is a double standard. Ohhh clinton spend so much on trips to actually improve America's image in the world, ohhh he so evil.
That 7 million btw is just AirForceOne Per hour operating costs. I am sure your 72 million figure includes everything.
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Originally posted by Raider179
I said it was bad to spend so much blatantly. It is a double standard. Ohhh clinton spend so much on trips to actually improve America's image in the world, ohhh he so evil.
Ya, he improved it so much, it inspired attacks on the Cole, and eventually attacks on the TWC. China loves us so much they've stopped building nukes, sure, you bet, our image sure did get improved! I bet the relatives of employees at the aspirin factory in North Africa sure love America! NK loved Clinton! He built them a reactor!
LMAO, so naive. Its simply pure entertainment. Thanks! :rofl
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I see nothing much changes around here.
I say let dear leader enjoy his crawford pig ranch as much as he wants.
Better there with his jack daniels and pretzels than in DC where he could do some real damage hehe. Unless of course he falls off his bike again.
Of course maybe we should raise the terror alert, with bush taking off the month of August and poll numbers down - sorta seems familiar . . .
"Now watch this drive" - GWB
on edit - is everything STILL Clinton's fault?
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Originally posted by Ripsnort
Ya, he improved it so much, it inspired attacks on the Cole, and eventually attacks on the TWC. China loves us so much they've stopped building nukes, sure, you bet, our image sure did get improved! I bet the relatives of employees at the aspirin factory in North Africa sure love America! NK loved Clinton! He built them a reactor!
LMAO, so naive. Its simply pure entertainment. Thanks! :rofl
simple question. Is our image better then or now?
I notice china still builds nukes, Terrorists are attacking all over the globe now, not just in yemen, North Korea could give a rat's *#% what we think.
On the entertainment, my pleasure:) It has been more interesting around here lately except for the occasional cheap shot, which I really don't even mind, and I do enjoy the debates and discussing things with you guys. Take it easy gotta go to my bowling league gents
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arguing politics with this lot is lot trying to reason with your dog.
It wastes your time and annoys the dog :)
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I remember the clinton era, Ill vote for a bush any day over a clinton!
any day.
Go get em george!
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I don't recall where the rules say "if elected all politicians" must stay in DC on the job."
And what of the trips to Texas where he meets with foreign leaders? You count those against him too as "not working"? How many corporate deals get done on golf courses instead of formal offices? I can see where the Texas ranch provides a better atmosphere for meeting foreign heads of State.
As for how much money he spent, I'd prefer he spent less. How much less? Some. Do I think he should never go back to Texas? Nah, he can go back once in a while just for fun. All the President's in my lifetime that had a decent place to go to did that.
Cripes, Wasington suxxors. I don't blame ANY of them for wanting to be somewhere else. Bill Clinton made 133 visits to foreign nations, a Presidential record. That breaks down into an average of 16.6 nations visited per year, another Presidential record. We can probably extrapolate that he spent more than any other President traveling too.
I don't blame Bill though; he only had Arkansas to go to. No wonder he traveled more around the world than any other President.
And guess what... I'm not all het up and outraged about Bill's travel either.
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rofl...that's all I have to say!
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Originally posted by strk
on edit - is everything STILL Clinton's fault?
Yes:)
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Originally posted by Lizking
No offense to Arkansas, it is a great place, other than electing Clinton to office.
He spent a BUTT load of time at Camp David.
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Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
Oh no, not true. He was on vacation 95% of the time before 911. It must be true. Mike Moore said so in F911...
I never even watched that flick for 1 reason,I didnt want to see how low people would get to try to convince others to become retards.:aok
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Originally posted by Raider179
Would you say the same if Clinton had spent that kind of money flying to Arkansas every month? Actually its retorical I already know you would jump on Clinton for it. Have a nice morning :)
I want to see your info on how many trips hes taken,not including visits from heads of state because all I see is a Bush basher making up unsubstantiated lies and carrying on the nit picking to an absurb level.
Yup,3.5 more years.When will the Dems be able to put someone up that doesnt make this clown look like a genius?
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Originally posted by Lizking
It would be a whole lot easier to kill him in Texas than in Washington, and has been noted.
he's pretty much safe wherever he goes. most of the people nutty enough to off someone over their political agenda are on his side.
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let's argue about his briefs next ... tighty whities or boxers..
guess good as it can get since he aint getting oral office head or selling gyro secrets to the chinese and the economy is solid
lol lol lol
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Originally posted by Raider179
Umm this is about Bush, not congress. OH I see so its ok to waste money as long as it's not as much as congress wastes.
:rolleyes:
Whats funny is some of you are the same ones who complain about tax dollars being wasted, yet here is a clear example of needless spending by Bush and you all look the other way. Making excuses like "congress wastes more" and "He can do it just as efficeintly as in DC"
Fine if he can lead from Texas, lead from there. Quit wasting tax dollars though flying back and forth every damn month.
No because Bush. or any other president for that matter is on the job no matter where he is.
Yea they may take a vacation but Im sure its not even close tot he type of vacations we are all used to where you leave all of your work behind.
When your President of the United States your on the job 24/7/365. There are no real vacations.
Where he does his work Bush. Clinton, Roosevelt I dont really care. Im sure he doesnt HAVE to be in the White House to get the things done he needs to. He can probably get alot of things done no matter where he is.
Im sure there is a very great many things he can get done work wise at his ranch just as easily as he could at the White House.
so whats the difference? Peception? Bah! Like I said, perception is BS
This whole notion that he is perceived as "hiding" at his ranch is silly. I certainly dont perceive it that way and your the first I've ever even heard of thinking that way.
But your perceiving it that way perhaps and probably because thats how you want to perceive it. If he were spending alot of time at Camp David you would probably say he was hiding there. and if he spent all of his time at the White House you would probably be saying he was hiding in the bomb shelter in the basement and afraid to leave there.
As for the money if you want to keep it just to presidents he's probably wasted a hell of alot less of it then past administrations have on afore mentioned things like State dinners (Reagan) and trips around the world (Clinton)
Dolllar for dollar particularly when you take inflation into account he's probably a bargan compaired to either of those two.
As for Congress. Thats where you real waste is. Those yo yos (both parties)have more rediculous ways to piss away our money then probably all three of the previous mentioned presidents combined times 2.
Your thinking reminds me of a place I once worked where they worried about throwing out a junk table they could replace for $20 in the name of saving money yet I watched with my own eyes as these same people had a guy smash up 10 grand worth of brand new labtops simpl because it didnt exactly match the decor they wanted to go with.
Hmmm you wouldnt happen to work for the government would you?
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Originally posted by DrDea
When will the Dems be able to put someone up that doesnt make this clown look like a genius?
We have a winnah!
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If you think Bush is an idiot then you really need to find a mirror somewhere and study the image closely.
Thats where the idiot is.
Bush is no idiot.
Srry to disappoint.
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poor raider
(http://www.thevegetable.net/images/pics/owned_haircut.jpg)
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Originally posted by Rino
Musta missed the part where they have to run the Presidential
itinerary by Raider179. Which would be especially fascinating as
I am virtually certain he voted for the other guy anyway ;)
Ri,
The ranch is the only place he can meet JEFF GANNON without anyone knowing about it:)
:lol
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raider said... "You don't like my views? Tough."
your views? you don't have a view... you are spoon fed your "views" from some far left corner of the internet that only you and a couple of lesbians know (knew) about... Now we have to be subjected to it too.
The only difference is... we ain't buying into it like you do.
lazs
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http://www.ntu.org/pdf/pp_ntu_104.pdf
http://www.ntu.org/main/press.php?PressID=218&org_name=NTU
Table 6. DOD's Fixed-Wing Aircraft Support Costs for White House Foreign Trips (in millions)
Year Trips Total Average
1997 7 $42.3 $6.0
1998 7 $91.4 $13.1
1999 11 $62.6 $5.7
2000 2 $50.6 $25.3
Total 27 $246.9 $9.1
Source: GAO, Presidential Travel: DOD Airlift Cost for White House Foreign Travel 2000, August 2000. According to GAO's Presidential Travel: Costs and Accounting for President's 1998 Trips to China, Chile, and Africa, these are not the total costs to DOD for their participation in Presidential travel.
The General Accounting Office's (GAO) incomplete estimates of the costs of just half of Clinton's 54 trips total $263.6 million. The final tally of Clinton's eight years of foreign travel could easily add up to more than half a billion dollars.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Maybe if he spent more on securing the Nation 9-11 would not have happened.
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Originally posted by Toad
I don't recall where the rules say "if elected all politicians" must stay in DC on the job."
And what of the trips to Texas where he meets with foreign leaders? You count those against him too as "not working"? How many corporate deals get done on golf courses instead of formal offices? I can see where the Texas ranch provides a better atmosphere for meeting foreign heads of State.
Isnt that why they built and maintain (at our expense) The presidential retreat "camp david"?
http://www.nps.gov/cato/culthist/retreat.htm
Camp David continues to serve as the Presidential Retreat today. It is a private, secluded place for recreation, contemplation, rest, and relaxation. Many historical events have occurred at the Presidential Retreat; the planning of the Normandy invasion, Eisenhower-Khrushchev meetings, Camp David Accords with Menachem Begin of Israel and Anwar Sadat of Egypt, discussions of the Bay of Pigs, Vietnam War discussions, and many other meetings with foreign dignitaries and guests. Maintaining the privacy and secluded atmosphere of the retreat is an important role for Catoctin Mountain Park. The Presidential Retreat still remains within park boundaries but is not open to the public. It is a place where presidents can relax, unwind, contemplate, entertain distinguished guests in an informal setting, and cope with the pressures of modern day society.
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Originally posted by DrDea
I want to see your info on how many trips hes taken,not including visits from heads of state because all I see is a Bush basher making up unsubstantiated lies and carrying on the nit picking to an absurb level.
That info is freely available on the net. And very easy to find.
Oh no not another bushbasher remark. lmao
Like I said cough cough "camp david"
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raider
aren't you like 12 or something?
can you even vote?
shouldn't you be more concerned about your pimples and girls than where the POTUS conducts his biz?
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Originally posted by lazs2
raider said... "You don't like my views? Tough."
your views? you don't have a view... you are spoon fed your "views" from some far left corner of the internet that only you and a couple of lesbians know (knew) about... Now we have to be subjected to it too.
The only difference is... we ain't buying into it like you do.
lazs
Oh spare me lazs. You choose to read and post in this thread. You subject yourself to it. No one forces you to do anything but if it makes you feel better keep ranting. I for one am beginning to think pushing your buttons is pretty easy.
I have opinions and views and you dont like them and you obviously have lost your ability to debate and all you can do is attack me.
As for your "far left corner" remark, you couldnt be more wrong. I am fed up with politics as usual when every couple days I see Bush saying how he has restored honor and integrity to the white house.
Whats this "we"? You speaking for everyone now? lmao. Or is it your multiple personality disorder acting up?
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Originally posted by Eagler
raider
aren't you like 12 or something?
can you even vote?
shouldn't you be more concerned about your pimples and girls than where the POTUS conducts his biz?
28. Been voting since I was 18. Oh I get it. Why you guys all a bunch of old men or something?
As for my concern, Are you saying I shouldnt be able to criticize POTUS? Hell half the people in this thread just got done working Clinton over again and he's been out of office for 5 years.
not directed at you...
Its all politics as usual up on the hill. And you just shut your eyes to it and justify if by saying clinton was worse. Well guess what, If you have to prove you are not so bad by comparing your self to old billy, you must not be too competent yourself. lol
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Originally posted by Raider179
Oh spare me lazs. You choose to read and post in this thread. You subject yourself to it. No one forces you to do anything but if it makes you feel better keep ranting. I for one am beginning to think pushing your buttons is pretty easy.
I have opinions and views and you dont like them and you obviously have lost your ability to debate and all you can do is attack me.
As for your "far left corner" remark, you couldnt be more wrong. I am fed up with politics as usual when every couple days I see Bush saying how he has restored honor and integrity to the white house.
Whats this "we"? You speaking for everyone now? lmao. Or is it your multiple personality disorder acting up?
I agree.. with Laz.
Look, I don't like (even a little bit) the current monkey in the window. On the other hand, I've been round the block enuff times to recognize 'business as usual' when I see it... democrats and republicans alike get the same rough view from my narrow perspective.. hasn't been a president in my lifetime that didn't play the same sorry bellybutton politics from the whitehouse.
But, I don't shrilly wail about his minor transgressions as points for consideration. I look at bigger things.. like wars, kids dying and lack of planning and piss-poor controls on his administration.
Somebody else pointed it out.. 3.5 more years. Then we can vote the next pinhead into the office and gripe about him.
Meanwhile your shrill wails on his hiding on his 'ranch', or ambassadorial appointments just come off as petty footstomping from a kid that ain't figured out yet that the skills and resources required to attain the office just don't have a damn thing to do with the way the office is run.
Which leaves us with the assumption that from your perspective, shooting the rat bastard would be preferable to letting the guy finish his term. Which I can't get behind because this is after all a democracy, not a Kilrathi Perfecture.
Cheers.. and tie yer shoelaces, son. You might trip and knock yer own teeth out.
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raider... we all seen where you get your "views" from... you posted the links... it was a real tinfoil hat lefty corner of the internet.
people who visit those sights and buy into em typicaly have no more ability to think for themselves than a gopher.
you will note for instance, that... you are the only person outside of said lefty internet oasis that believes that Bush (the great satan) is trembling in fear and hiding in Texas from the terrorists.
lazs
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Originally posted by lazs2
raider... we all seen where you get your "views" from... you posted the links... it was a real tinfoil hat lefty corner of the internet.
people who visit those sights and buy into em typicaly have no more ability to think for themselves than a gopher.
you will note for instance, that... you are the only person outside of said lefty internet oasis that believes that Bush (the great satan) is trembling in fear and hiding in Texas from the terrorists.
lazs
1) I used 2 links in this thread. The first one was only to show the operating cost per hour of Air Force One and had nothing to do with what I was discussing. The second link is a National Parks Service site.
2) Not the first time I have stood alone and won't be the last. Especially not on a pro-bush, pro-conservative filled BBS.
3) If you look at the links I use, (which I am one of the few folks who actually provide links to my quotes, instead of just using the part that supports my case) they are mostly from CNN,MSNBC, lots of government sites, BBC, but I guess to you thats the "tinfoil hat left. Man you must be one really hardcore conservative.
4)Yeah why fly cheaper on Marine One to Camp David when you can just jet off to Texas whenever you want...
5)He's probably not scared but I think it gives the wrong impression and its wasting a pile of money. Let him run the country from texas then, just stop all that commuting at taxpayer expense.
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4- Members should post in a way that is respectful of other users and HTC. Flaming or abusing users is not tolerated.
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Originally posted by Clifra Jones
They whined about Nixon being at his home in CA.
They whined about Reagan being at his ranch in CA.
They whined about Bush Sr. being at his home in Maine.
Now they whine about Bush Jr. being at his ranch in TX.
!
Perhaps since your so knowledgeable on past events regarding White house travel, you could provide information that states the number of trips those presidents took to their "homes" while in office. I'd like to see how they compare.
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Originally posted by Raider179
Perhaps since your so knowledgeable on past events regarding White house travel, you could provide information that states the number of trips those presidents took to their "homes" while in office. I'd like to see how they compare.
You tell me why that matters? I'm not the one whining about it! What I'm saying is that this is a tired old argument brought up every time a Republican is in the White House. It matters not how many times they travelled to thier home away from Washington, if they traveled once or 100 times the leftist pinheads would complain about it.
Tell me why it bothers you so much. Can you prove to me that the countries business is not getting accomplished while the President is at his Texas home? Or is it that you just HAVE to find something to complain about because everyone of your other complaints has been proven shallow and baseless!
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Originally posted by Clifra Jones
You tell me why that matters? I'm not the one whining about it!
No your whining about someone else whining. :lol
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Originally posted by Raider179
2) Not the first time I have stood alone and won't be the last. Especially not on a pro-bush, pro-conservative filled BBS.
"Kites rise highest against the wind, not with it."
-Winston Churchill
"Choose your battles carefully."
- Sun Tzu
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Originally posted by Nash
"Kites rise highest against the wind, not with it."
-Winston Churchill
"Choose your battles carefully."
- Sun Tzu
"If you come to a fork in the road. Pick it up" Yogi Berra :)
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Originally posted by Raider179
No your whining about someone else whining. :lol
but that still leaves you as the prime whiner huh?
Raider you call this a pro-conservative BBS but you are wrong. This is POPULATED by a majority of Anti-liberals. It's not that most of us LOVE Bush, we just consider him a godsend compared to 8 years of Clinton.
If you post actual fact on here that is bad and not som contrived notion probably ripped off from Moveon.org I'm sure the common sense factor will kick in.
I know it does with me.
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I would say it's populated like most any open BBS - a large percent of overbearing, argumentative, egotistical, ill-mannered, social misfits who don't know the difference between civil discussion and argument, followed but lesser percentages of sophomoric adolescents and pure dolts, with a sprinkling of genuinely intelligent, clever and thoughtful adults.
Have I left anyone out? :)
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Originally posted by Rolex
I would say it's populated like most any open BBS - a large percent of overbearing, argumentative, egotistical, ill-mannered, social misfits who don't know the difference between civil discussion and argument, followed but lesser percentages of sophomoric adolescents and pure dolts, with a sprinkling of genuinely intelligent, clever and thoughtful adults.
Have I left anyone out? :)
yes...the Mother Goose type....
Skuzzy ;)
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raider... I have no problem with the legit sites you linked or their numbers... I do have a problem with your conclusions tho since it has been pointed out that by those numbers.... Bush is a taxpayer bargin so far as travel goes compared to the Klintons.
The far left tinfoil hat sites I was refering to are from another paranoid thread you started I am sure you haven't forgotten that one right?
I do wonder what you thought of the Klinton extravagences tho.
lazs
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Let me summ up Raiders total contribution to this thread.
Bush is President WWWWWWWWWWWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!
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Originally posted by lazs2
raider... I have no problem with the legit sites you linked or their numbers... I do have a problem with your conclusions tho since it has been pointed out that by those numbers.... Bush is a taxpayer bargin so far as travel goes compared to the Klintons.
The far left tinfoil hat sites I was refering to are from another paranoid thread you started I am sure you haven't forgotten that one right?
I do wonder what you thought of the Klinton extravagences tho.
lazs
Like I said, If you have to compare yourself to Clinton, then you are not doing such a good job.
Maybe you could point out those sites for me since I don't seem to recall any far left sites. I do remember being told 1 time a site I used in a gun thread was questionable but if I recall the facts were not disproven.
I was just as sickened by the Clinton's abuse as I am by Bush's.
As I have pointed out but you guys all just ignore, Bush is the one who promised to "clean up washington, Restore honor, integrity and the AMerican People's trust" He said Its time for politics as usual to end in DC. LOL He lies in your face and you just dont even see it.
Being Anti-Bush does not make you an automatic liberal, just as being pro-bush does not make you an automatic conservative. People are too quick in here in my opinion to label other posters without actually knowing there views outside of pro/con bush.
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Originally posted by Maverick
Let me summ up Raiders total contribution to this thread.
Bush is President WWWWWWWWWWWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!
Here let me make it easier for you. I don't like him. there you go. When he does things that I feel are questionable, expect criticism from me. You want to call it a whine or a big WAH, go ahead. Some of you think that anytime anyone complains its a whine, but really it is just being critical. So tell me again who acts like they are 12?
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Originally posted by Raider179
Here let me make it easier for you. I don't like him. there you go. When he does things that I feel are questionable, expect criticism from me. You want to call it a whine or a big WAH, go ahead. Some of you think that anytime anyone complains its a whine, but really it is just being critical. So tell me again who acts like they are 12?
"I don't like you so I will find any and all reasons to say something bad about you no matter how foolish or insubstantial it may be"
Not only does that sound childish it also sound very much like childish teenage girl!
"I hate her, I'll think of a reason later!"
Your not being critical, all your doing is regurgitating the propoganda you are being fed by your liberal/leftist masters.
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Bush is doing a comparatively good job. Great? No...anywhere near as bad as some in this thread think? certainly not.
He can move the white house to texas for all I care.
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Originally posted by Clifra Jones
"I don't like you so I will find any and all reasons to say something bad about you no matter how foolish or insubstantial it may be"
Not only does that sound childish it also sound very much like childish teenage girl!
"I hate her, I'll think of a reason later!"
Your not being critical, all your doing is regurgitating the propoganda you are being fed by your liberal/leftist masters.
See this is exactly what I mean. That quote is yours not mine. You act as though I should not be allowed to voice my criticisms.
Moreover, instead of actually putting anything useful pro/con into this thread you just continue making attacks. This wasteful spending of Bush traveling back and forth to texas is just part of the overall picture that shows to me Bush could care less about the American Public.
Find 1 website that has mentioned this as a problem... Your liberal/leftist masters? man you are a joke. You should read above about just because your anti-bush doesnt mean your a liberal, but I guess that is just too much for you to comprehend.
here is what I think you sound like since you want to alter quotes.
"I have nothing substantial to say, I have an inability to actually discuss an issue, therefore let me attack the person who defends a position I don't like." Grow up, Criticizing the President has been around since the beginning of this Country.
And you guys wonder why most of the Euro's have basically stopped posting on this BBS. They probably got tired of trying to discuss issues with people who only can attack people personally and not actually hold any kind of real debate.
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Originally posted by Yeager
He can move the white house to texas for all I care.
Fine let him move to Texas, Just quit the commuting every month.
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And like I said.Show some documentation to back up this mythical 50 trips for no reason and I'll agree with ya.If ya cant,your just sounding like another hysterical bash Bush cause we lost type.Now can you show some facts,or just keep spewing the same meaningless drivil?
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Some points to ponder,
Ponder point one: The cost of AF1 sitting on the tarmac at Andrews primed and ready to go 24/7/365 is bound to be expensive, maybe more so if it doesnt fly. AF1 lubed and flying is good for the country.
Ponder point two: Crew training (includes maintenance and security). Frequent trips is good for crew proficiency and is good for the country.
Ponder point three: the president is on the job 24/7/365x4 at a minimum. Where the president is at is invariably a non issue. If the president is rested and relaxed at camp david, palm springs, a ranch in texas..... then thats a fine place to be and is good for the country. Ive been to DC and am sympathetic with anyone who works there for a living.
Ponder point four: Members of congress, both the house and the senate, travel back and fourth between their offices in DC and their offices in their respective states, districts many times a year and all fly back and fourth on your tax dollar. Go add that up.
final ponderable point: your dislike for the guy deserves a better platform than buggering off about how often he dispenses presidential duties in crawford as opposed to DC.
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Originally posted by DrDea
And like I said.Show some documentation to back up this mythical 50 trips for no reason and I'll agree with ya.If ya cant,your just sounding like another hysterical bash Bush cause we lost type.Now can you show some facts,or just keep spewing the same meaningless drivil?
Mythical 50 trips huh? lol
The first time I saw it was on Drudgereport. Found it on usatoday for the purpose of answering this lame question.
Following the Congress in a midsummer exodus, President Bush plans a Texas ranch respite for several weeks, while Supreme Court nominee John Roberts has August to think about Senate confirmation hearings.
White House press secretary Scott McClellan said Friday that Bush will leave after signing into law the Central American Free Trade Agreement that Congress gave final approval to earlier this week.
It will be the president's 50th trip to the ranch since he was elected nearly five years ago.
http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2005-07-29-bush-ranch_x.htm
Now as for your requirement that they be him going for no reason, that is not my argument that is yours. Nice try though. All I said is 50 trips in 5 years. Not 50 times to do nothing. I Have freely admitted in this thread that he does work there and holds meetings or whatever. Also like I said, Fine let him run it from texas, just quit wasting taxpayer money flying back and forth.
My problem lies mainly with the waste of taxpayer money to fund these trips. Camp David is the presidential retreat because it is already staffed and funded and can be reached from the white house by Marine 1 at a signifigantly less cost.
I would not have a problem with maybe even half that number but man 1 time a month, almost every month he goes to Texas? That doesnt sound like a lot to you?
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Originally posted by Yeager
Some points to ponder,
Ponder point one: The cost of AF1 sitting on the tarmac at Andrews primed and ready to go 24/7/365 is bound to be expensive, maybe more so if it doesnt fly. AF1 lubed and flying is good for the country.
Ponder point two: Crew training (includes maintenance and security). Frequent trips is good for crew proficiency and is good for the country.
Ponder point three: the president is on the job 24/7/365x4 at a minimum. Where the president is at is invariably a non issue. If the president is rested and relaxed at camp david, palm springs, a ranch in texas..... then thats a fine place to be and is good for the country. Ive been to DC and am sympathetic with anyone who works there for a living.
Ponder point four: Members of congress, both the house and the senate, travel back and fourth between their offices in DC and their offices in their respective states, districts many times a year and all fly back and fourth on your tax dollar. Go add that up.
final ponderable point: your dislike for the guy deserves a better platform than buggering off about how often he dispenses presidential duties in crawford as opposed to DC.
1)AF 1 does not cost more sitting on the tarmac than it does in the air. That would only apply to commercial aircraft that have paying passenegers.
2)AF 1 Would already have the top of line people and equipment. They dont let the noob pilot fly the president. And they train regardless of whether the president flies or not.
3)Not a bad point.
4) If you check Congress has to pay for their travel. And they don't use AF 1. But if you have something that shows otherwise I would like to see it.
5)Your right, That is why this is only part of the overall picture I see of Bush. Some people seem to think this is my Main problem with the guy, it is not. It just another peice of him that shows me he doesnt care about the American People.
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off-topic but funny. Anyone here seen the video of Bush walking off after CAFTA speech and shooting the bird. Not the old video where he does it before a speech, This one is from this week. Yep he's a regular old integrity and honor bringer to the white house.
search for bush bird leno on google.
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It just another peice of him that shows me he doesnt care about the American People.
====
Always an interesting point when someone says that a president doesnt care about the american people. Baffles me how anyone could really seriously believe that.
I would have to check on who pays for congress traveling between their constituents and their offices in DC. I cant fathom those people paying their own way in public service. You may be right though.
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Originally posted by Yeager
It just another peice of him that shows me he doesnt care about the American People.
====
Always an interesting point when someone says that a president doesnt care about the american people. Baffles me how anyone could really seriously believe that.
I would have to check on who pays for congress traveling between their constituents and their offices in DC. I cant fathom those people paying their own way in public service. You may be right though.
Ok that might be too strong, maybe it should be we aren't first in his mind when it comes to most situations.
If I remember right congress has to pay or if they get flown on a lobbyist's plane, then they must pay the equivalent of a commercial flight. Cant remember if the money goes to congress or the lobbyist, but their flights home are not paid by the taxpayer. AFAIK
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I would not have a problem with maybe even half that number but man 1 time a month, almost every month he goes to Texas? That doesnt sound like a lot to you?
I have no idea what he does on these trips,but if I worked in a hotel a sure wouldnt want to have to live in it 24/7 if I could do my work form another place.As far as dignitaries meeting him there?I think its a far better impression to be asked to come to the presidents own home.That he has done alot.The other times?I dont know his schedual and wouldnt presume to think hes just playing nintendo and sucking down brewskies.
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Originally posted by Raider179
off-topic but funny. Anyone here seen the video of Bush walking off after CAFTA speech and shooting the bird. Not the old video where he does it before a speech, This one is from this week. Yep he's a regular old integrity and honor bringer to the white house.
search for bush bird leno on google.
I think that was the President giving a thumbs up in response to a reporter's question, "Esta CAFTA muerto?" The thumbs up seemed to indicate that CAFTA was alive and well.
In any event, it was not the bird.
Les
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MSNBC's Keith Olbermann (amongst others) reports that the reporters who were actually there unanimously said Bush didn't give anyone the finger.
Specifically, John Godfrey (Dow Jones Newswire) wrotes, "I was in the scrum of reporters at the event. Bush did not flip anyone off. He was clearly giving a thumbs up in response to a question shouted from the crowd."
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I've seen the video. I can probably find ya a link when I get home. It's unambiguous. He's walking away from the camera, his arm shoots up and he gives the finger to the folks behind him as he walks away. It wasn't a thumb.
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(http://thepoliticalteen.net/images/byrdflipper.JPG)
appears to me to be a thumbs up.
arm angle is wrong for a backwards bird flip. It's right for a going away thumbs up.
still think he's a freakin pinhead...
but, that's just me. ;)
get back to me when (if) they ever catch him with his hand in the cookie jar.
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I watched the video a few times. The arm motion and the hand motion look like a thumbs up to me too.
And all the reporters who were there say it was a thumbs up too. But then we all know the White House press corps is admantly pro-Bush, MSNBC and Olbermann being among the worst in that regard.
However, I realize it must be the finger because, after all, he is teh Boosh.
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Originally posted by Toad
However, I realize it must be the finger because, after all, he is teh Boosh.
Not to mention Raider said so. ;)
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Originally posted by Gunslinger
Not to mention Raider said so. ;)
also don't forget he has given the camera the finger before so it's not like it would be without precedent. lol
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So if there is a precedent proof is no longer required? OK, if you say so.
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And if he did flip the bird. So what.
People make far too much of such things.
And the people that complain or point fingers about such things remind me more of little kids sitting at the table saying "MOMMY JOHNNY IS LOOKING AT ME!"
Soo flipping what. Now shut up and eat your dinner
And if he did flip the bird. it was probably directed at the reporters.
Isnt like they dont deserve it a good deal of the time.
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hehe The Daily Show made a joke about the 50 Bush trips to texas last night. :lol
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Originally posted by Raider179
hehe The Daily Show made a joke about the 50 Bush trips to texas last night. :lol
yea that's a solid credible source for information. :aok
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Originally posted by Raider179
hehe The Daily Show made a joke about the 50 Bush trips to texas last night. :lol
The daily show IS a joke.Hes another no matter what Bush does its wrong.Bush could cure cancer and Aids and all that ******* would say was he had been with holding the cures till his numbers were low.Get a grip.
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Did you just call Jon Stewart an ******* for doing fake news that has a tendency to go after the president's foibles and follies, like all other news agencies?
Yeah, someone needs to get a grip.
-SW
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4- Members should post in a way that is respectful of other users and HTC. Flaming or abusing users is not tolerated.
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4- Members should post in a way that is respectful of other users and HTC. Flaming or abusing users is not tolerated.
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4- Members should post in a way that is respectful of other users and HTC. Flaming or abusing users is not tolerated.
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4- Members should post in a way that is respectful of other users and HTC. Flaming or abusing users is not tolerated.
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BTW....FOX today said that Bush is a genius....must be true if its on the news.:rofl :rofl
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Hey Laz,
Is raider the tinfoil hat guy that was posting all the links to 911 being done by the CIA and aliens?
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Tin foil hats disrupt the Republican thought waves.I saw that on the Simpsons so it MUST be true.:rofl :rofl :rofl
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Originally posted by DrDea
Tin foil hats disrupt the Republican thought waves.I saw that on the Simpsons so it MUST be true.:rofl :rofl :rofl
http://customwire.ap.org/dynamic/stories/T/TEXAS_STYLE_DIPLOMACY?SITE=FLTAM&SECTION=POLITICS&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2005-08-03-18-52-16
Bush's Ranch Serves Down-Home Diplomacy
By NEDRA PICKLER
Associated Press Writer
CRAWFORD, Texas (AP) -- President Bush has turned his remote ranch into a stage for down-home diplomacy, where a barbecue grill and a pickup truck have become his favorite tools for dealing with world leaders.
The 1,600-acre property in central Texas is a place where aides say the president feels most comfortable and can spend more get-to-know-you time with his guests than in hurried Washington. On Thursday, Colombian President Alvaro Uribe will be the 14th foreign leader to visit the ranch.
Bush's dog once wandered through a press conference with the Australian prime minister. The president led the Saudi crown prince by the hand through blooming bluebonnets. And Russia's president was treated to a hoedown with cowboy cooks and a swing band.
"You only invite your friends into your house," Bush said when Russian President Vladimir Putin became the first head of state to visit in November 2001. "Occasionally, you let a salesman in, or two.
The ranch is outside Crawford, a one-stoplight town with 700 residents.
Ranch visits have been a reward, for example when Bush hosted leaders from Europe, Australia and Japan who supported the war in Iraq. He's also used ranch invitations as an enticement, like when he tried to persuade China's president to help pressure North Korea to scrap its nuclear weapons program.
Bush has used his private residence for entertaining heads of state in a manner unlike any other president in 40 years. The others have preferred to host their counterparts at the White House or the presidential retreat at Camp David.
Except for last year when he was campaigning for re-election, Bush has spent every August at his ranch since becoming president. With this trip, he has made 51 ranch visits.
You can read the rest of it for yourself.
But you probably think the AP is liberal too :rolleyes:
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OMG THAT BASTARD
how dare he take such vacation....err....diplomacy visits. I mean the nerve of him to wine and dine foreign leaders away from the hustle and bustle of big city life in middle America. I mean can you imagine, what right does Pres. Bush have doing foreign diplomacy and using his OWN home at that.
GEESH Raider, I'm so glad you pointed this out. I would have never guessed the President of the United States entertaining foreign leaders. I mean isn't that a waist of his time? Couldnt he just fling the leader of china off on some low level state department intern in some DOS conference room? Geesh what a waist of govt rescources. :rolleyes:
maybe if I got a hat this big I could see what you see.
(http://www.hallucinaut.com/foilhats/patshat01.jpg)
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Originally posted by Gunslinger
OMG THAT BASTARD
how dare he take such vacation....err....diplomacy visits. I mean the nerve of him to wine and dine foreign leaders away from the hustle and bustle of big city life in middle America. I mean can you imagine, what right does Pres. Bush have doing foreign diplomacy and using his OWN home at that.
GEESH Raider, I'm so glad you pointed this out. I would have never guessed the President of the United States entertaining foreign leaders. I mean isn't that a waist of his time? Couldnt he just fling the leader of china off on some low level state department intern in some DOS conference room? Geesh what a waist of govt rescources. :rolleyes:
The important part was the 51 visits, not the visiting dignitaries. Drea still seems to doubt the number is that high and wanted "proof" so I provided a link to the AP report.
yeah 14 times out of 51 trips. Whats that leave? 37 times in 5 years where he didn't have foreign dignitaries visiting? still 7 times a year or once every two months that he goes down there when he doesn't have to for "offical purposes".
If you read the article you will also note it says past presidents have traditionally used camp david or the white house.
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it's hard work...
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Originally posted by Raider179
If you read the article you will also note it says past presidents have traditionally used camp david or the white house.
So your mad that he's going against "traditional presidents"?
I mean we've allready pointed out:
1. Going to the "western white house" costs MUCH less than clintons vacations over seas
and
2. Presidents "traditionaly" never stop working even when on "vacation.
and now
3. 27% of the trips were OB
so he HAS to use Camp David? Is this a law or something?
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OK raider your obviously clueless in the political realm except for blind hatred and spoon fed pabum.Try to wrap your brainwashed mind around this concept.The 51 up from 50 yesterday,trips had how many dignitaries visits?Oh yea.37.Tony Blair had 3 of thoise alone.I assume your useing the 37 dignitaries visited and not possably how many made those into multiple trips.Blair makes it 33.A few others Im sure made multiple trips but dont let that blow a gasket for ya.Real facts sometimes confuse the weak minded.Bury the blind hate dude.Hes better than any other Democratic candidate that tried make him look worse than them.
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If your gonna quote me at least get the handle right.Observational powers seem to be lacking in that realm too.Its DrDea
No "r" involved.Have a nice day.:)
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Originally posted by Raider179
[url]
Bush's Ranch Serves Down-Home Diplomacy
"You only invite your friends into your house," Bush said when Russian President Vladimir Putin became the first head of state to visit in November 2001. "Occasionally, you let a salesman in, or two.
OMG! Bush called Putin a salesman??
WTG GWB!:aok
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raider.. I am sure that you have a different view of yourself and what you are doing here than the most of the rest of us do.
I hope that you take comfort in your version of what is going on in the world.
lazs
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Originally posted by Raider179
Like I said its not about vacation, its about perception that he has been scared out of DC.
Your perception. I don't think it. It hasn't been mentioned on any tv news, or written in any paper I can find. You seem to be the only one worried about how cowardly an act going to the ranch is.
Let's see...
Franklin Roosevelt spent months at a time in Warm Springs, especially near the end of his life.
Kennedy spent a LOT of time on Martha's Vineyard.
Most all the presidents have spent a lot of time at Camp David.
Eisenhower was known to travel around looking for a golf game.
And by the way, the president is not a "little monkey". He's a big ape. Stands 6 foot something.
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Originally posted by Gunslinger
So your mad that he's going against "traditional presidents"?
I mean we've allready pointed out:
1. Going to the "western white house" costs MUCH less than clintons vacations over seas
and
2. Presidents "traditionaly" never stop working even when on "vacation.
and now
3. 27% of the trips were OB
so he HAS to use Camp David? Is this a law or something?
Like I pointed out
1)You are comparing him to Clinton, you sure that means what he is doing is ok?
2)Comparing a President on a 6 nation overseas trip with a president who travels to Texas every month is not the same in my book.
3)Granted they don't stop "working"
4)Camp David is Funded and ran by taxpayer dollar, Guess that money to pay those people to work there is just being wasted too. No there is no law, but one of the reasons they have Camp David is because you can reach it by Marine 1 from the white house and you don't have to roll AF 1 out to take him there.
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Originally posted by DrDea
OK raider your obviously clueless in the political realm except for blind hatred and spoon fed pabum.Try to wrap your brainwashed mind around this concept.The 51 up from 50 yesterday,trips had how many dignitaries visits?Oh yea.37.Tony Blair had 3 of thoise alone.I assume your useing the 37 dignitaries visited and not possably how many made those into multiple trips.Blair makes it 33.A few others Im sure made multiple trips but dont let that blow a gasket for ya.Real facts sometimes confuse the weak minded.Bury the blind hate dude.Hes better than any other Democratic candidate that tried make him look worse than them.
LoL, I am clueless huh?, Tell you what when you can actually stay with me on facts and not just keep trying to break my argument by wasting my time having to dig up answers for you, when its obvious, YOU haven't looked for them, I will try to worry about your ID.
37 is the number that DIDNT have dignitaries. Tony Blair had 3 huh? Care to point them out?
Here let me help you, I will give you a website that lists Visists by foreign heads of state.
http://www.state.gov/r/pa/ho/c1792.htm
You will notice no head of state has visited crawford more than 1 time. You will also notice the number of Heads of State that visit Bush in Crawford is actually lower than 14. I counted around 8 but didnt take my time. doesn't include 2005 that number might be as high as 12.
So to finish up, when you attack someone on their facts, might want to make sure your facts are in line first.
And just in case the government website is too hard for you to read, let me dumb it down for you.
http://www.crawford-texas.org/id1.html
The official crawford website, see the list at the bottum for dignitaries that have visited. You will notice from that list that 8 of them either only came for lunch or for the day.
So now does this still apply? Cause if so, you shouldnt talk about yourself like that.
"Real facts sometimes confuse the weak minded."
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Originally posted by lazs2
raider.. I am sure that you have a different view of yourself and what you are doing here than the most of the rest of us do.
I hope that you take comfort in your version of what is going on in the world.
lazs
Yeah that is easy to see.
Bush wasting money on flights to Texas is not as big a deal as this thread got turned into. It could have been have been quick and simple, but got turned partisan and ugly real fast and that is why it is still going. I was willing to abandon it awhile back after a few people made good points. But then all the little snide remarks started and I figured what the heck, might as well ride this one out. lol
Its not that big a deal to me, It sure seems to turn other people into raving lunatics though. I just thought it might be an interesting and even fun discussion. Guess I was right. :)
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(http://www.bjacked.net/LuvToHunt/forums/phpBB2/modules/gallery/albums/album01/Beat_Dead_Horse.jpg)
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Originally posted by rshubert
Your perception. I don't think it. It hasn't been mentioned on any tv news, or written in any paper I can find. You seem to be the only one worried about how cowardly an act going to the ranch is.
lol So what if it's my "perception", does that mean its no longer a perception?
Maybe you get all your opinions from tvnews,internet, or newspapers, but I try to read the information and form my own. Sorry if A person who thinks for himself is somehow ridiculous or unbelievable.
I digress, the remark you mention I did take back in the thread.
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Originally posted by Raider179
Like I pointed out
1)You are comparing him to Clinton, you sure that means what he is doing is ok?
2)Comparing a President on a 6 nation overseas trip with a president who travels to Texas every month is not the same in my book.
3)Granted they don't stop "working"
4)Camp David is Funded and ran by taxpayer dollar, Guess that money to pay those people to work there is just being wasted too. No there is no law, but one of the reasons they have Camp David is because you can reach it by Marine 1 from the white house and you don't have to roll AF 1 out to take him there.
I take comfort in the fact that a ranch out in Texas could actually prove good for diplomacy (people tend to let their guard down when they are relaxed in the countryside)
But truth be told all of his visits to texas dont even come close to the bill the DoD got from Clinton's "world tour" That was just astounding considering budget constraints at the time.
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Originally posted by Hangtime
(http://www.bjacked.net/LuvToHunt/forums/phpBB2/modules/gallery/albums/album01/Beat_Dead_Horse.jpg)
LoL, ok I get the picture. :)
My view on it might not be right, but the facts are. And in the end shouldn't that be more important?
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Originally posted by Raider179
LoL, ok I get the picture. :)
My view on it might not be right, but the facts are. And in the end shouldn't that be more important?
the horse could care less, either way.
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Originally posted by Gunslinger
I take comfort in the fact that a ranch out in Texas could actually prove good for diplomacy (people tend to let their guard down when they are relaxed in the countryside)
But truth be told all of his visits to texas dont even come close to the bill the DoD got from Clinton's "world tour" That was just astounding considering budget constraints at the time.
Fair enough, like I said though comparison to Clinton gets you nowhere with me. When you use one corrupt president to justify the actions of another, doesnt prove to me anything.
I wonder if any of the 50 trips to texas were "non-official".... I doubt it since as we have discussed he is on the job 24/7/365. Just be an interesting to know.
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Originally posted by Hangtime
the horse could care less, either way.
He cares enough to get in this thread :D
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Originally posted by Raider179
LoL, ok I get the picture. :)
My view on it might not be right, but the facts are. And in the end shouldn't that be more important?
Fact most birds fly south for the winter. Yes this is a fact and it is right. Does that make the birds wrong?
I just fail to see your point in this whole thread. Do you realize how many hours the POTUS puts in. How much responsibility and stress he encoutners.
Have you ever seen a president come out of the white house physically looking better than when he first started?
I just sit here and think why not go to crawford for your breaks.
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Originally posted by Raider179
He cares enough to get in this thread :D
He's dead. Really. I don't think the horse gives a chunky dump, either way.
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Originally posted by Gunslinger
I just fail to see your point in this whole thread. Do you realize how many hours the POTUS puts in.
Have you ever seen a president come out of the white house physically looking better than when he first started?
I just sit here and think why not go to crawford for your breaks.
According to his wife he is in bed asleep at early everynight. George never burns the midnight oil.
Yes they always look worse. But then again it is a stressful job, no one is sayin its not. I just think he goes to Texas a little too often at taxpayer expense.
That's a lotta breaks.
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Originally posted by Raider179
According to his wife he is in bed asleep at early everynight. George never burns the midnight oil.
Yes they always look worse. But then again it is a stressful job, no one is sayin its not. I just think he goes to Texas a little too often at taxpayer expense.
That's a lotta breaks.
at what expense do you think he should go? His job requires him to be in DC yet he is entitled to vacation. Congress takes breaks all the time. It is not his fault he has to have a big enterauge and AF1 incase something bad happens.
edit: And i'm sure the news doesnt wait because the president is sleeping.
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My god.Look at the strapping Young man Clinton was and look at him 8 years later.He,no shat,aged 15 years.If Bush working at home,and Like you said raider,24/7 makes is easier, I dont see the point in bashing a guy who puts more hours in on the job in 3 days that most people busting his chops do in a week.It just sounds petty.
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Originally posted by Gunslinger
at what expense do you think he should go? His job requires him to be in DC yet he is entitled to vacation. Congress takes breaks all the time. It is not his fault he has to have a big enterauge and AF1 incase something bad happens.
edit: And i'm sure the news doesnt wait because the president is sleeping.
Yeah I know its something that is tough to say what would be "too much". But we obviously do have limits on what is acceptable. I think everyone here agrees that clinton spent way too much on his tour.
Your right, its not his fault he has to have an entourage, but I think he should be a little mindful of what it takes (money, people, etc) to travel back and forth so often and thats all I ask.
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Originally posted by DrDea
I dont see the point in bashing a guy ...
where you see bashing, I see criticizing. but oh well we can save the semantics for another thread ;)
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(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/54_1123195949_thisthreadsucks.jpg)