Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Viper17 on July 31, 2005, 12:56:35 AM
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I was just wondering if any of the gear heads hear have anyfealings on the death of this icon and maby its rebearth in the near future. DISCUSS:aok
p.s. the firebird to.
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i vote yes, but only if buyers sign agreements to maintain a mullet for as long as they own one.
:aok
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Mullet=Plymouth.
(http://www.magnumforceracing.com/cars/70_superbird/superbird_subframe_connector_0059.JPG)
Plymouth + Mullet = Joe Dirt
(http://us.movies1.yimg.com/movies.yahoo.com/images/hv/photo/movie_pix/columbia_pictures/joe_dirt/_group_photos/david_spade1.jpg)
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(http://www.fraserdante.com/3630%20-%2069%20Pace%20Car%20Conv/69%20Camaro%20Pace%20Car%20-%203630%20002.jpg)
only if we get this.
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plymouth+Mullet+Joe Dirt+Hot woman=one very happy redneck:rofl
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Thats 1 nice superbird. Is that a 69 camaro btw ?:cool:
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Originally posted by Panman
Thats 1 nice superbird. Is that a 69 camaro btw ?:cool:
Yes, that's a '69 RS-SS Convertible.
I am all for the return of my all-time favorite car. I am, however, against some of the artists renderings I had seen from the GM studio. Ford, I hate to say it, got the Mustang retro-look right. The Camaro rederings, however, do not look right to me. But here's to hoping.
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Originally posted by Roscoroo
(http://www.fraserdante.com/3630%20-%2069%20Pace%20Car%20Conv/69%20Camaro%20Pace%20Car%20-%203630%20002.jpg)
only if we get this.
:aok :aok :aok :aok
The wife owned a slightly used 1987 Camaro. It was a POS.
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Ok.. I had a 67 and a 69.. both good cars. You sat upright and could see and the doors didn't weigh 400 lbs and things didn't fall off.
Past 69 I lost all interest in em. Mustang stayed loyal to the short pony car with good seating and visibility and light weight.... they can't make enough of em.
Good news is that they do make a camaro again and it's a 69. They make the convertable now but I hear they will make the hardtop pretty soon and it is all steel.. all the parts the new company doesn't make are currently being reproduced so you can have a new 1969 camaro.
lazs
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you can get almost a whole 69 camaro in replacement panels ..
ive had a 67,68,69 (z-28 dz car) a '79 z28, a '82 z 28 and a 87 iroc.
my fav was the 69 but my 67 was way quicker (383 stroker ,4 speed ,w 4.33's and a m 22)
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The Camaro was a nice looking car and pretty popular. I also liked the old Dodge Challenger. I 'm one of the few that liked the "slap stick" shift when it came out.
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lazs, Roscoroo, I've driven all the Mustang models, but have never driven the pre-1970 GM F bodies.
One of the things I liked about the 1970-79 GM F bodies was their high speed handling characteristics (with the high performance suspensions of course). My '71 TA with the 455HO and HD suspension, for instance, simply felt better and better the faster you got. At 130-140 MPH it felt like it was on rails. (I never found a place I felt safe going faster, but the car felt ready.)
I never drove a Mustang that felt that good. How were the older GM F's?
culero
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Last I looked, there was a company making an entire body for the 69 Camaro. All you need is a front frame stub (you can use a 68-74 Nove stub) and a rear end/leaf spring setup to have a roller. The rest of the sheetmetal is already available.
There was a kid who did several artist's renderings of a retro Camaro a year or two ago, either in Car Crap or Unpopular Hot Rodding. The kid did a killer job. It looks even better than the new retro Mustang. GM is really screwing the pooch by not producing it.
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I had one of these (sniff sniff)
Actually it was a 1970 1/2 RS but this is the closest I could find in red.
(http://i24.ebayimg.com/01/i/04/91/d6/40_12_sb.JPG)
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Originally posted by culero
lazs, Roscoroo, I've driven all the Mustang models, but have never driven the pre-1970 GM F bodies.
One of the things I liked about the 1970-79 GM F bodies was their high speed handling characteristics (with the high performance suspensions of course). My '71 TA with the 455HO and HD suspension, for instance, simply felt better and better the faster you got. At 130-140 MPH it felt like it was on rails. (I never found a place I felt safe going faster, but the car felt ready.)
I never drove a Mustang that felt that good. How were the older GM F's?
culero
Realize that the 1st generation F-body and the 2nd generation F-body were laid out almost EXACTLY the same, with minor differences in dimensions for the most part. With the same level of suspension preparation, the performance is pretty similar.
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the 1st gm f bodies could be quite stable but they needed the traction bars , better springs ,shocks and tires
most of mine were set up for 1/4er mile so they were alittle squirrelly in corners (but not as bad as the mustangs)
A friend of mine had a 69 pace car and it cornered like it was on rails , but rode like a buckboard.
we did a 71 that cornered really nice too that had a pritty decient ride to it. (had to reinforce the upper rear swaybar mounts though)
id say stock for stock the fbodies cornered better then the mustangs.
(better front suspension)
not including the gt350's/kr500's
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Cool, thanks for the info, guys :)
culero
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My step dad is selling his '98 Z28 Camaro, any buyers?
$16,000
P.S. Supposed to be special edition
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A sample of what could be?
http://www.popularhotrodding.com/features/0312PHR_Fifth_Reloaded/ (http://www.popularhotrodding.com/features/0312PHR_Fifth_Reloaded/)
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Originally posted by ASTAC
A sample of what could be?
http://www.popularhotrodding.com/features/0312PHR_Fifth_Reloaded/ (http://www.popularhotrodding.com/features/0312PHR_Fifth_Reloaded/)
Yeah, that's the one.
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(http://popularhotrodding.com/features/0312phr_fifthgen_04_s.jpg)
that one looks pritty good .
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Yeah, imagine those cars the kid drew with the new LS2 series engines, and maybe the new LS7.
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Enh? That thing has what in common with the appearance of the original?
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Originally posted by nirvana
My step dad is selling his '98 Z28 Camaro, any buyers?
$16,000
P.S. Supposed to be special edition
Already have a 98 Firebird. And too many other toys.
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Originally posted by Hangtime
Enh? That thing has what in common with the appearance of the original?
Plenty. More than enough to be an homage. And it looks good.
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not compared to the ford.
The mustang LOOKS like a mustang.
That looks to me like a korean rendition of a japanese sports car.
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Originally posted by nirvana
My step dad is selling his '98 Z28 Camaro, any buyers?
$16,000
P.S. Supposed to be special edition
He must be pretty proud of that car, because I checked Edmunds, used Denver zip code, added every option to the Z28 SS edition, and said it had 50k miles on it, top dollar in OUTSTANDING condition is $10,574. He'll own it for awhile, or maybe get lucky and a dumb 16 year old will pay him full price without researching true market value.
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Proud but moving on to bigger things I think. Looking at some other type of sports car. He probably won't, and I hope he won't, sell it to some 16 year old. Thing has WAYYYY too much power for a wreckless teenage driver.
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Just face it guys..GM's copycat cars of the Mustang just couldn't hack it..even the few times they outperformed the stangs...The GM F-bodys are gone forever.
Even from 93-death when they had better speed and horsepower the Mustang outsold the Camaro/Firebird combined. It's
sad, but oh well.
Just a small sampling from the last few years:
Jan. Through Aug. Sales
Car 2000 2001
Ford Mustang 112,242 128,070
Chevrolet Camaro 22,339 30,042
Pontiac Firebird 16,225 22,542
This was a 5to1 ratio individually and 3 to 1 combined.
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Originally posted by Hangtime
not compared to the ford.
The mustang LOOKS like a mustang.
That looks to me like a korean rendition of a japanese sports car.
I was thinking that is what happens when a Miata, Thunderbird and Corvette have an orgy. Sounds fun, but damn the consequences. . . well, sometimes, anyhoo. LOL
I was raised a Pony girl, but the 70 Split, sure was a nice ride. Now I have '03 Monte Carlo SS. She's treating pretty me good. ;)
~ Vamp*
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the first three years of the camaro were good cars that a 6' tall guy could drive in relative comfort. They were well built and easy to work on and looked great. They were far better looking than the falcon makeover that was a mustang back then.
The reason Mustangs stayed alive was because they didn't try to look and be as uncomfortable as a low end ferrari in 70's and 80's and 90's.. they didn't have 400 lb doors and they were reliable.
The mustangs still get it.. they know that there is a large group of people who want their cars to look like.... cars. People who want to sit upright and not have to look out of slits. Hp wise... it's allways been close enough.. that hasn't been the factor in the camaros decline and the mustangs continue success.... both could have cars with great performance cheap... Chevy drivetrains are at least as versitile and easy to tune as ford ones...
comaro lost touch with what a camaro should look like... mustang didn't make that mistake. The PH rendition of a new camaro is just more proof that they don't get it.
lazs
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Originally posted by Ripsnort
:aok :aok :aok :aok
The wife owned a slightly used 1987 Camaro. It was a POS.
The first legit post in here so far.
Karaya
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Originally posted by Ripsnort
He must be pretty proud of that car, because I checked Edmunds, used Denver zip code, added every option to the Z28 SS edition, and said it had 50k miles on it, top dollar in OUTSTANDING condition is $10,574. He'll own it for awhile, or maybe get lucky and a dumb 16 year old will pay him full price without researching true market value.
:rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl Stop!! I'm in tears damn you!!!
Karaya
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GM has a long history of getting something right then altering it and messing it up, or discontinuing it for no reason. The Camaro is but one example.
J_A_B
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I live ten minutes from the last plant to produce them. Just sniffled the day demolition started, the whole plant is gone now.
I had a pal that would drive them into the train cars, ya had to be real skinny dude for that job.
All in all was a nice run anyway.
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Bumba you didnt have to be THAT skinny. I unloaded em from those same train cars for years. :)
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Be careful what you wish for. Dodge brought back the Charger and it is a nightmare to look at. Looks like a non-wagon Magnum. I thought Dodge could do better. :(
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Camaro is set for 2007
Source: Road & Track
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Might have to go back to working for the railroad at the GM plant. :)
Wait. Less pay...........have to leave Hawaii and go back to places where its colder than a well-diggers butt in the winter and hotter than the pits of hell in the summer............get to drive new Camaros around................
Nah. I'll stay here and drive an old Mustang. :)
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GM, chevy drivetrains are some of the best in the world... they have some of the tastiest suspension bits too..
They screw it up every time these days when they try to wrap a body around it tho...
The reason they sell so many trucks these days is that all the cars are so ugly.
Mustang figured it out... none of the others seem to be able to.
lazs
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Hey guys, GM ripped off the 2005 Mustang with the 2nd Generation GTO.
Karaya
PS - Ford trucks are overall the best on the planet. "Heavy Duty" is NOT Independant Front Suspension, it is a Solid Axle.
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The GTO is a perfect example of what I am saying. it is arguably better than the mustang in allmost every way except...
It is butt ugly. It doesn't have any more to do with an old GTO than a subaru does so far as the body is concerned. I couldn't point one out in a crowd.
I seen em and them just blanked em out. I don't even know if I would recognize one in a parking lot as being a Pontiac much less a frigging GTO fer chrissakes..
I allways recognize mustangs as being mustangs tho.
lazs
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This is what does it for me: The 1968 Camaro Z28. I was a 16 y.o. kid when I got to drive my older cousin's z28. I'll remember that feeling till the day I die.
'Cept his was green and white.
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/64_1122992301_1968z28.jpg)
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The ONLY Camaro worth bringing up is this one:
(http://www.camarohighway.com/images/1stGen/69YenkoBlue.jpg)
Now folks, THIS is a Camaro. This is coming from a loyal Ford owner. But all other "Camaro's" pale in comparison to the above.
Karaya
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I had a 67 RS SS 350 4 speed with disc brakes back in 70'
The first mustang I ever owned was a 91 ex California HP car with a 5 speed and 3.55 posi... the two cars were very similar to me.
lazs
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Originally posted by StarOfAfrica2
Might have to go back to working for the railroad at the GM plant. :)
Wait. Less pay...........have to leave Hawaii and go back to places where its colder than a well-diggers butt in the winter and hotter than the pits of hell in the summer............get to drive new Camaros around................
Nah. I'll stay here and drive an old Mustang. :)
I'd drive a pinto if it meant living in Hawai. A pinto with a full tank.
That's a funny coincidence SA. You unloaded cars from the Camaro plant in Ste .Therese? Was it the same company , Gencar or something like that?
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Originally posted by Masherbrum
Hey guys, GM ripped off the 2005 Mustang with the 2nd Generation GTO.
Karaya
PS - Ford trucks are overall the best on the planet. "Heavy Duty" is NOT Independant Front Suspension, it is a Solid Axle.
:rofl
The GTO was an Australian Holden years ago. They took the floor pan and moved it around, and put the old Camaro drivetrain in it.
Ford truck front suspension is the worst abomination in the entire light truck industry. The "twin I beam" won't stay lined up more than a month at a time. That's why Ford was FORCED to go straight axle on the "heavy duty" version. GM has a straight axle light truck by the way. The ONLY thing Ford has going for it is the straight axle 4X4 in the Super Duty. GM does need to put a straight axle in the 4x4 3500HD. The Duramax and the 8.1 will both break the front axle.
Ford has the worst automatic truck transmission, and the worst stick shift as well. The E4OD (later known as the 4R100) is the weakest, most unreliable piece of junk ever put between the frame rails of a light truck. It is failure prone and expensive to fix. More than TEN years after it was introduced, it STILL isn't fixed. It's worse than the old GM 700R4 ever was. Don't even think about that piece of junk ZF manual. There's a whole segment of the transmission repair industry dedicated to keeping that junk in some semblance of repair.
The Ford 460 gas engine never could hold a candle to the old 454 Chevy, and that V-10 wasn't any better. And the 8.1 Chevy is in a class by itself in light truck gasoline engines. That V-10 wouldn't even keep up with my old 81 454 and got half the fuel mileage.
You want a diesel? The Duramax is twice what any Powerstroke ever dreamed of being. I've yet to see any Powerstroke that was near as reliable, powerful, or efficient as a Duramax. They did good to keep up with the old 6.5 GM. The 6.5 was nothing to write home about either. It had its share of problems. On the other hand, we put over 300K miles on one, with a 36' enclosed gooseneck trailer behind it. Hard miles, it was never shown any mercy. Never got passed by another stock diesel until the Duramax came out. Couldn't say the same for any of the six Ford Powerstrokes in the bunch.
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Originally posted by Masherbrum
The ONLY Camaro worth bringing up is this one:
(http://www.camarohighway.com/images/1stGen/69YenkoBlue.jpg)
Now folks, THIS is a Camaro. This is coming from a loyal Ford owner. But all other "Camaro's" pale in comparison to the above.
Karaya
The 1969 ZL1 is even better. All aluminum engine with more than 75 more horsepower. Average value today exceeds $500K.
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(http://www.uberchad.net/gallery2/download/5537-2/comaroz28.jpg)
One idea of what the next one will look like. GM's not talking about it.
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GM is on crack.
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Originally posted by Masherbrum
The ONLY Camaro worth bringing up is this one:
(http://www.camarohighway.com/images/1stGen/69YenkoBlue.jpg)
Now folks, THIS is a Camaro. This is coming from a loyal Ford owner. But all other "Camaro's" pale in comparison to the above.
Karaya
Yeah, whatever....:rolleyes:
(http://www.camaro1stgeneration.com/cam1stgen/images/baldwin1a.jpg)
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Originally posted by airbumba
I'd drive a pinto if it meant living in Hawai. A pinto with a full tank.
That's a funny coincidence SA. You unloaded cars from the Camaro plant in Ste .Therese? Was it the same company , Gencar or something like that?
No, I unloaded in Wentzville, MO. GM plant there makes the full size vans. We ran the distribution yard for new GM stuff to Missouri, S. Illinois, part of NE Kansas and SE Iowa. We looked forward to getting loads from St Therese. :)
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Originally posted by Captain Virgil Hilts
:rofl
The GTO was an Australian Holden years ago. They took the floor pan and moved it around, and put the old Camaro drivetrain in it.
Ford truck front suspension is the worst abomination in the entire light truck industry. The "twin I beam" won't stay lined up more than a month at a time. That's why Ford was FORCED to go straight axle on the "heavy duty" version. GM has a straight axle light truck by the way. The ONLY thing Ford has going for it is the straight axle 4X4 in the Super Duty. GM does need to put a straight axle in the 4x4 3500HD. The Duramax and the 8.1 will both break the front axle.
Ford has the worst automatic truck transmission, and the worst stick shift as well. The E4OD (later known as the 4R100) is the weakest, most unreliable piece of junk ever put between the frame rails of a light truck. It is failure prone and expensive to fix. More than TEN years after it was introduced, it STILL isn't fixed. It's worse than the old GM 700R4 ever was. Don't even think about that piece of junk ZF manual. There's a whole segment of the transmission repair industry dedicated to keeping that junk in some semblance of repair.
The Ford 460 gas engine never could hold a candle to the old 454 Chevy, and that V-10 wasn't any better. And the 8.1 Chevy is in a class by itself in light truck gasoline engines. That V-10 wouldn't even keep up with my old 81 454 and got half the fuel mileage.
You want a diesel? The Duramax is twice what any Powerstroke ever dreamed of being. I've yet to see any Powerstroke that was near as reliable, powerful, or efficient as a Duramax. They did good to keep up with the old 6.5 GM. The 6.5 was nothing to write home about either. It had its share of problems. On the other hand, we put over 300K miles on one, with a 36' enclosed gooseneck trailer behind it. Hard miles, it was never shown any mercy. Never got passed by another stock diesel until the Duramax came out. Couldn't say the same for any of the six Ford Powerstrokes in the bunch.
We're not talking F-150 / 1500 comparisons. I'm talking 250/350 - 2500/3500. Again "Heavy-Duty" is NOT IFS. I have YET to see a single "Straight Axle Chevy Truck". It's easy to see, and they aren't there.
FWIW, In all of the 4 wheeling I have done, Ford and Toyotas take the beating and keep on wheeling. Older GM's suck becuase when lifted, the steering box rips off (seen this 3 dozen times AT LEAST). Powerstroke is better than the Duramax (My uncle works for Allison Transmission HQ in Eagle Creek, IN). He says the WORST thing to happen to the Allison tranny, is the Duramax. I just figure, he knows what he is talking about.
Karaya
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Originally posted by DiabloTX
Yeah, whatever....:rolleyes:
(http://www.camaro1stgeneration.com/cam1stgen/images/baldwin1a.jpg)
Whah!
Karaya
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Anything wrong with the Ford 460?
Hey I have a 1985 F250 Lariat with a 460, and the thing still pulls his heavy load into the daily roofing company business.