Aces High Bulletin Board
Help and Support Forums => Aces High Bug Reports => Topic started by: Zuum on August 01, 2005, 05:47:22 AM
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Another really strange sortie...
I know, germans had lack of all material at the end of war...but, did they replace 30 mm cannon projectiles with rubber bullets? If yes, they must have been dildos.:D
Take a look at this short clip:
film, 140 k (http://www.rubricum.com/files/dildos.ahf)
I think, I got pretty good hits on Lanc�s body...but, no effect at all!
At least I hope, those pilots and gunners were women. In that case they might have been able to join my shooting:D :rofl
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Excellent post of a film with massive hits... and from what I can tell little to no damage... Have you submitted this to HTC?
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I wish, techical staff will read all these topics concerning to oddities...:rolleyes:
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In my experiences if those hits were on the wing you'd have a kill. Firing down the fuselage in one pass rarely pops a bomber that size.
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That massive bunch of hits with 20/30mm cannons would kill an elephant...or a blue whale, if one of them could fly:D
Is Avro Lancaster really made of titanium?
HTC, please....any comments?
Did germans really use dildos as a substitute for 30mm cannons?:rofl
If yes, that explains me a lot of things:
Black boots, long leather jackets, uniform caps, etc, etc.
Yeah, now I know, now I know:D
:rofl
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AIM at the WINGS next time... wait for the FIRE to consume the WING
move along...
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The fuselage, as a whole, is more vital than the wings are. It houses electronics, CREW, bombs, sometimes fuel (depending on the plane) and lots of important systems including fuel lines and wing spars, and without the fuselage there'd be no plane, just a loose collection of parts fluttering to the earth.
If you hit it to the critical point, it should destroy the bomber. I unloaded 2x20mm into the belly of a slow and lumbering lanc once.. I know it was heavy with bombs because it was lining up on a field. Completely unloaded all me ammo directly into the bomb bay.... and NOTHING. After that tried my pea shooters, using every last round (his rear gunnery sucked so I kept at it) and used all of them for only a smoking engine. It was freaking pathetic.
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Aim for the cockpit.
If you can't see the cockpit you fluffed your attack.
Seriously weakest point is the pilot, kill him and plane goes BOOM !
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Because cables, electronics, etc aren't modeled currently it does nothing. If they were modeled people would start fearing my Hurri 1 of death. That makes the wings more important at this point.
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Nirvana is so smart it's not even funny
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i think the damage model on the bombers needs to be lowered... u hit anytype of aircraft with 2-20mm cannons or 1-30mm cannon, it should go boom, remember these HE shells, they explode on impact... theres not an aircraft even flying in todays world that would hold up to a 20mm or 30mm hit in the fuselage. also the 50cal damage needs to be turned up... was watching gun cam on military channel the other night and watched as P51's blew up trains and boats with 1/2 second bursts of 50 cals only... 1-20mm hit to the fuselgae of a lanc should blow a hole big enough to break it into half, i hate it when i dump 100 0rounds of 20's into something see the hit sprites and all that i get is a fuel leak or an oil leak... its like the 50 cals are modeled like 303's and the 20mm are modeled like 50 cals, 1 20mm will destroy a tank, why not an aircraft ?
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Iceman, I don't think you have a clear idea of how powerful these rounds were in real life.
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i am exagerating a little bit, but I have seen a 20mm hit a tank at fort hood, i played on a minor league football team and we got to go to fort hood and play a team that they put together ( we whooped em ) but after the game we got to go to the live tank range or whatever its called and they were using a bradley as a target and were firing .50 cal barret rifles at it and the bullet would go all the way through the tank, out the other side.. left about a 1 foot hole in the exit, then they brought out some type of infantry carrier or something like that and fired 20mm's at it, every time they fired a shell, that bradley would light up and you would see sparks and pieces of ( i dont know what ) firing out from all the holes in the tank that were already there, anything inside that tank would have been toast, and the intrace hole was about 6-8" and the exit was about 3-4 feet litteraly... i know the rounds we are using today are more sophisticated but, as i said in my post earlier, i watched a show called GUN CAM on military channel and they show P51's destroying trains and cruisers with 1/2 - 1 second bursts of .50 cals... i may have exagerated a lil earlier but IMO the .50 cal rounds and up, especially 20mm and 30mm rounds should do more damage
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Well the Bradley isn't a tank. It's called the "Bradley Fighting Vehicle".. Its armor only protects against small-arms (assault rifles, man-carried things). A Browning 50cal is a heavy machine gun, and is not small arms. I have no doubt a 20mm can rip the armor open in a Bradley. They're not meant to protect against that.
A real tank has thick armor plating, and a 20mm would do very little damage.
With the P51 gun cams, you have to consider the following: They made MANY passes. MANY attacks on the train and the ships they destroyed. Gun cams only run while the guns are firing. So when you see 1 to 2 seconds of firing, it's really only the last shots in an already damaged vessel. The straw that broke the camel's back, so to speak.
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I didn't know the bradly was piece of junk.... just watched them blow the hell outta it lol it was fun... you may be correct about the gun cam, thats probably what it was, just showing the last planes gun cam on the attack run on the trains, but the cruisers they were shooting at were in good condition or appeared to be when they were taking them out... very good point though, and I'll take your word for it about the Bradley as I don't know crap about them... now the abrams on the other hand has some really cool armor... if a missile is fired at it a piece of the armor will actually like explode off the tank and hit the missile like a split second before the missile hit the tank... I watched a show about them, they are AWESOME.... I still think the 50's and up should do more damage... not necessarily to fighters, but to bombers... i've dumped 500+ rounds of 50 cals into the top fuselage of a B17 and it didn't go down... now if I move over a hair and air for the wing connection, I can easily slice the wing off with less than 100 rounds... maybe its the bomber fuselage damage model that needs some work... on the other hand if I hit it in the tail from 6 posi, all i do is elevator damage and it takes allot of hits, don't you think 2 or 3 - 20mm rounds fired at the tail from a 6 oclock position should cause more damage, i mean its not like they will deflect off, there most likely gonna go thru the tail, thru the fuselage, and thru the cockpit... And I know thats just too much stuff to program into the game, but they should cause more damage IMO
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THX, Gents:D
Thanks for all that excellent argumentation!
Please, cool down;-)
I performed my military duty in the Finnish Armour Brigade as a Tank Sq.leader. That was year 1988. In those days Finnish Defence Forces had russian-built, but western-modificated T-72 M1 MBT´s (Nav-Comm-Tactical electronics, etc.).
I think, they represented almost the best technology of that era, that time.
Nowadays, Finnish Armoured forces are running with german Leopard II MBT´s and finnish-swedish "Jointventure CV-90" with modernized electronics.
I know something about "hitting with HE & AP with different materials etc, etc..." ;-)
Nevertheless, back to basics:
I wish, HTC will correct the damage model of bombers.
That´s it.
So short;-)
WBW,
Zuum
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I agree.. I think that the bombers have too much damage resistance in their fuselages. Basically all you can do is shoot the tail off... There's nothing that says "Okay, after this much damage we're going to just simply fall apart" and there needs to be. I put 200 20mm rounds into the belly of a B26 the other night (I was in an F4uC) and another 200 rounds into another... Only after I was down to 60 rounds in both gun banks did the plane blow up. I'm talking dead on, too. Perfect shots. After a time, there's nothing LEFT to hit!!! Why was this plane still flying and in one piece?? It had no damage except one small gas leak (a few of my rounds missed the belly and hit the wings).
I think that HTC needs to change the way hits register on the fuselages of bombers. As it is now, it doesn't seem the hit does ANY damage unless it hits gas, a pilot, or a gunner's position. At least with wings there is a threshold, where you pass X amount of damage and the wing falls off. Not so for bomber fuselages.
But then put 20 50cal rounds into the nose from above and POOF intant pilot kill.... makes no sense.
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I dont know...whenever I am in a (any) bomber, a single fighter (LA7, P51, BF109, doesnt matter) will tear me to pieces with a 3 second burst...
Dont weaken the bombers any further, or you will not see them in the skies anymore. And just imagine how you fighterpotatos will cry for easy targets then!
Litjan
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It seems to me that the only real time to hit a bomber in the fuselage would be an HO attack, aiming for the cockpit. Other then that, it should be wings/tail section all the way.
Hell, look at LW guncam footage- I've got several clips from 109's, 190's and even a 110 attacking. All of the 6 zone shots are either trying to kill the gunners, or the engines/wings.
Them wings sport a hefty amount of fuel. It's just lookin' for an excuse to burn, and nothin' says burnin' like a 30mm explosion ;)
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Originally posted by Krusty
I agree.. I think that the bombers have too much damage resistance in their fuselages. Basically all you can do is shoot the tail off... There's nothing that says "Okay, after this much damage we're going to just simply fall apart" and there needs to be. I put 200 20mm rounds into the belly of a B26 the other night (I was in an F4uC) and another 200 rounds into another... Only after I was down to 60 rounds in both gun banks did the plane blow up. I'm talking dead on, too. Perfect shots. After a time, there's nothing LEFT to hit!!! Why was this plane still flying and in one piece?? It had no damage except one small gas leak (a few of my rounds missed the belly and hit the wings).
You're right that's why I allways aim for the inner left engine or if above the junction between wing and fuselage (emplanture in French but I don't know the correct english word.)
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Originally posted by Iceman24
I didn't know the bradly was piece of junk.... just watched them blow the hell outta it lol it was fun... you may be correct about the gun cam, thats probably what it was, just showing the last planes gun cam on the attack run on the trains, but the cruisers they were shooting at were in good condition or appeared to be when they were taking them out... very good point though, and I'll take your word for it about the Bradley as I don't know crap about them... now the abrams on the other hand has some really cool armor... if a missile is fired at it a piece of the armor will actually like explode off the tank and hit the missile like a split second before the missile hit the tank... I watched a show about them, they are AWESOME....
I was a medic in an armor battalion for 3 yrs at Hood. The Abrahms does not have armor like that. I think the russians had a reactive armor that would explode outwards when a shell hit it, basically deflecting it. Back in the '80's, the armor on the M1 was secret. It was probably layered metals with maybe some kevlar, but it definitely was not reactive armor. The Bradley and APC's (113 & 577) were lightly armored at best. An AK round could penetrate the back doors and a .50 cal could easily go through the sides. 20mm on up will tear that fighting vehicle UP.
Sorry to sidetrack the thread here. The Lanc is one of the hardest bombers for me to bust up for some reason. B17's pop nicely, almost like the front pilot area is too big and I always seem to hit it there.
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Actually reactive armor is essentially explosive panels that blow outwards to defeat the shaped charge on AT missles. It serves little use against AP tank rounds and also has a bad effect on the surrounding area which is why it has seen so little use.
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Bradley = Mobile Coffin
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its not nearly as bad as the new styrker
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First, the title of this thread is inappropriate. I'll edit it and trust that something was lost in translation.
Sudz debugged the film and provided me with an output. I checked it out to make sure there wasn't something amiss.
You scored 16 hits in total with all of your weapons.
3 MK 108 hits, 2 to the main section of the fuselage and 1 to the rear section of the fuselage.
4 20mm hits and 9 13mm hits, these were spread around a bit and did damage to the tailwheel, gunner, elevator, fuel, and rear and center sections of the fuselage.
It was a nice pass and most of the time that would have resulted in a kill. However, your shots just happened to connect in a way that didn't cause a catastrophic failure. I really don't consider that unrealistic. There's plenty of examples of one plane going down relatively easily while another takes an unbelievable amount of punishment and stays flying.
Thanks for posting the film. It's not as dramatic as screaming "I hit him with 500 rounds of 30mm and nothing happened!" but it is far more useful and appreciated.
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Pyro will it be possible ,please ,to add an output of this data to the next film viewer release ?
And a kind of mini hud showing some infos like acceleration speed etc ... would be nice too :)
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Originally posted by straffo
Pyro will it be possible ,please ,to add an output of this data to the next film viewer release ?
And a kind of mini hud showing some infos like acceleration speed etc ... would be nice too :)
Way cool.
In.
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How about a realtime HUD output hot key like the FPS and video info for bullet hits on the enemy you are chasing?
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I make a habit of filming all my attacks. I fly the Yak-T more than any other AC. I'll be happy to edit some of my films and send them in if you think it'll help?
I made a pass on a lanc from astern this evening, saw multiple 37mm hit sprites on the wing. He took damage but kept flying.
Now I'm not implying anything by this nor casting blame, it's just frustrating. That 37mm kills any fighter it hits with one shot, very nearly every time.
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30s are bout useless in this game,
i've saddled up on b24s at 100yds with the buff blasting away at another fighter below him,
fire 20 rounds 30mm into wingroot and left inb engine, see all hit sprites and only engine started smoking.
so i figure i'd let loose the other 20rnds i had left into tail and ...didnt even kill the damn gunner position, again pcs fell off after 15 rnds striking the tail from 100yds or less.
the whole time i was using only the cannon and not the mgs.
so i fire the last 5 or 6 30mm into the right wingtip and nothing, just all sprites.
now i'm just pissed, so i let looose with the mgs into the right inb eng and after about 40 rounds the engine catches fire and 1-2 mins later the bird blows up.
another instance i rake the top of a c47 at from just behind the cockpit across winspar and down fuselage with 30mm only and hmm nothing LOL that was a good 5-10 rounds striking the c47. then i promply augered ..oops.
i'm on dsl and verrrrrry few packets ever get lost, ive tested that for hours at a time , and pingin at sub 60ms
i do notice 30mm work great on pt boats and destroyers.
many times hittin lances and b17s and the 30mm just dont do much,
I find 50s into the cockpit or wingtips are the easiest way to kill buffs.
my theory,,the 30mm are just neutered here for whatever reason, probably some reason that makes sense like the eny thingy...
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I'm betting that you're seeing the same thing discussed above -- that on buffs you're geting fuselage hits (maybe with displaced hit sprites). With the smaller "hit boxes" in AH2 its easy to stay just below the kill threshold at several nearby damage centers...
Try going offline, and hit the drone 24s with 30mm only -- targeting out from the fuselage, so there's no doubt. 30s have plenty of damage power....
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Originally posted by AmRaaM
another instance i rake the top of a c47 at from just behind the cockpit across winspar and down fuselage with 30mm only and hmm nothing LOL that was a good 5-10 rounds striking the c47. then i promply augered ..oops.
Actually, that was an XC-47 you were attacking, a special variant of the C-47 (akin to the YB-40 version of the B-17 and the XB-41 version of the B-24). It had 6-inch-thick armor plating throughout the fuselage and wings. It was built to fly along with groups of normal C-47's, but lower and with instructions to the pilot to "fly as if in a state of drunkenness" to attract the majority of fire from the ground or from attacking enemy aircraft. The XC-47 was discontinued shortly after its introduction, though, as it was found that enemy fire bouncing off the aircraft created more of a hazard to the group it was flying with than direct fire.