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Help and Support Forums => Help and Training => Topic started by: TheThang on August 02, 2005, 11:52:16 PM

Title: G2 vs G6
Post by: TheThang on August 02, 2005, 11:52:16 PM
Exactly how dramatic is the performance drop from the g2 to the g6?
Title: G2 vs G6
Post by: Keiler on August 03, 2005, 04:04:12 AM
G6 has noticably lower speeds at all altitudes IIRC, climb doesnt seem too much affected.
Also the G6 feels a bit more sluggish or "heavy".
Title: G2 vs G6
Post by: Wilbus on August 03, 2005, 05:14:29 AM
G6 heavier, thus turns worse.

Here are the charts from the HTC webpage.

(http://www.hitechcreations.com/ahhelp/models/charts/109g2speed.gif)

(http://www.hitechcreations.com/ahhelp/models/charts/109g2climb.gif)

And G6

(http://www.hitechcreations.com/ahhelp/models/charts/109g6speed.gif)

(http://www.hitechcreations.com/ahhelp/models/charts/109g6climb.gif)

Climb rate difference at the deck is about 100ft per minute with WEP.

Speed is about 5-10mph at the most. Not that great difference but of course the G2 is the better plane in terms of performance, and those extra mph may very well make a difference, specially when combined with the better maneuverabilty of the G2.

The G6 has got better armament though thanks to the 13mm and possibility for the 30mm if one can aim with it.

Taking gondolas will up both planes armament to quite similair and pack a good punch but will make the plane sluggish IMO.

Granted most people fly the 109's, specielly F4 and G2 with Gondolas.
Title: G2 vs G6
Post by: Krusty on August 03, 2005, 01:47:49 PM
I rarely fly with gondies on, as it makes any attempt at tight turns.. well let's say "tight for a 109" turns that much harder. I'm guessing that the G-6 has a more powerful engine, and may have been designed for better high alt performance (not that it turned out that way....). But the main difference is the weapons package. The spud tosser is a powerful gun. The 13mms are approximately the same as 50cals, and can do a lot of damage. I got 2 13mm-only kills in a G-6 in one sortie (yes, I HAD 30mm ammo, but I didn't have the good shot, so I just fired my MGs lol and it worked 2x in a row). I think the WEP is slightly improved in the G-6 as well... It just seems like it has more of a boost than the WEP in the G-2 (from the feel of it), but the plane is more sluggish, so it turns worse. It's still a threat, but I find the G-2 to be more of a threat because it can turn slightly better.
Title: G2 vs G6
Post by: Soda on August 03, 2005, 02:02:55 PM
Wilbus has it right, the G2 is the higher performance package, the G6 is the higher firepower package.  The G2 actually is "better" in almost every performance aspect over the G6, being lighter, it turns, acclerates, climb, etc better and has slightly higher top speed (3-6mph at most alts).  Depends on what you are looking for but in general if you are looking for more firepower I think most people skip the G6 and head straight to G10.
Title: G2 vs G6
Post by: TheThang on August 03, 2005, 02:38:33 PM
ill just stick with my fw a5 =D
Title: G2 vs G6
Post by: YUCCA on August 08, 2005, 06:13:18 PM
Well i just go for the g6 cause im a tator tard.
Title: G2 vs G6
Post by: Kweassa on August 09, 2005, 07:35:35 AM
Looking at a glance;

* over 6k alt the Bf109G-6 on WEP, is about the same in speed, as the Bf109G-2 on military power(100% throttle, no WEP).

* the climbrate and acceleration is roughly the same.

* maneuverability, at least in terms of turn circle, is (contrary to popular belief), is also same. According to my testings;


=================================
Turn time, turn speed, and turn radius.
-first figure is for normal flight,
-second figure for 1 notch of flaps,
-third figure for full flaps
=================================

Bf109G-2 (1.0/1.2/1.2)
- 17 seconds (167mph), 202.1m
- 18 seconds (160mph), 205.0m
- 17 seconds (148mph), 179.0m


Bf109G-6 (1.0/1.2/1.2)
MG151/20
- 18 seconds (163mph), 208.8m
- 18 seconds (160mph), 204.9m
- 18 seconds (134mph), 171.6m
MK108
- 18 seconds (168mph), 215.2m
- 19 seconds (158mph), 213.6m
- 18 seconds (137mph), 175.5m


 However, it is possible the Bf109G-6 might feel a little bit 'heavier' when maneuvering with MK108 30mms on board.

 ...



 Therefore, it basically comes down to individual preference.

 In the MA, IMO "350mph at deck" is roughly the "lowest point" to consider a plane really powerful and competitive. When a plane can do over 350mph, preferably over 360, it can afford to fight enemy planes aggressively at low altitudes, but still can manage to escape with a bit of SA when things get hairy.

 The P-38L and the Ki-84-Ia manages 344mph at deck, and these two are the "last in line" for "MA-competitive" fighters, being able to duke it out in aggressive combat, but still enough to outrun most enemy planes... and perhaps escape to safety  with good timing. (although both will never outrun the real speedsters..)

 The Bf109G-2 and G-6, unfortunately, is little bit slower than those two planes. While it is capable in the hands of a good pilot, and will be able to fight any plane at almost equal terms, still the lacking speed performance will often limit the pilot to fly with a minimum "safety margin" in mind. It can't really commit to a fight when there are multiple enemies nearby.

 So naturally, be it Bf109G-2 or G-6, both will be caught by faster enemy planes pretty easily if it loses an important alt advantage. The Bf109G-2 is faster than the G-6, but in the MA that difference isn't by much.

 Therefore, at least in my case, I will prefer the G-6 over the G-2.

 In these 109s, against the MA competition, there is no choice but to keep flying SA-wise all the way through the sortie, and the small performance advantage of the G-2 isn't really up to much.

 So, naturally, for me, the firepower comes first - one pass, one shot kill with the 30mms; this is much more important for me than being 6~8mph faster, or little bit lighter maneuvering.

 Even if you are in a G-2, you won't be able to outrun the D-9s, G-10s, P-51s, Typhs and etc... even if in a G-2, you won't be able to outtrun Spitfires. However, if you are in a G-6, little bit slower but quite simular characteristics, unlike the G-2 the G-6 CAN kill an enemy plane with one good shot.

 For instance, you may be able to duke it out with an La-7 in a G-2 or a G-6.. but however, in a G-2 you may land some shots on the enemy plane but it will not go down. But in the G-6, that one shot, when connected right, will kill him on the spot.


 So I prefer the G-6 with 30mms.
Title: G2 vs G6
Post by: Widewing on August 09, 2005, 05:50:26 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Kweassa
Looking at a glance;
 The Bf109G-2 and G-6, unfortunately, is little bit slower than those two planes. While it is capable in the hands of a good pilot, and will be able to fight any plane at almost equal terms, still the lacking speed performance will often limit the pilot to fly with a minimum "safety margin" in mind. It can't really commit to a fight when there are multiple enemies nearby.


In the MA Sunday evening, some fellow stated that he had outrun a P-38 on the deck with a G-2 carrying gondolas. I stated that it was either a P-38G, or the P-38 didn't bother to chase as the P-38J or L is faster on the deck. That caused someone to state that I was incorrect.

The facts are these, on the deck, max speed. P-38s 50% gas, G-2 at 75% gas.

P-38G: 327 mph
109G-2: 331 mph in WEP (w/gondolas)
P-38J/L: 344 mph in WEP
P-51B: 358 mph in WEP

When the G-2 runs out of WEP, its speed drops to 317 mph. In a prolonged chase, the P-38G should chase it down. Indeed, the P-38J/L will chase it down without using WEP.

As to the 109G-6, it is several mph slower on the deck than the G-2, both with and without WEP. You had better fly the 109G-10 if you need to outrun anyone on the deck.

My regards,

Widewing
Title: G2 vs G6
Post by: Krusty on August 09, 2005, 06:07:53 PM
If the G2 started to run with a higher E state, then it can out run a p38. The p38 might have blown some speed while manuvering to follow the 109, and thus been slower.


The G2 will outrun the 38 as long as it has wep, going by your numbers, but it has 15 minutes of WEP. It would run out of gas before it ran outta WEP :P
Title: G2 vs G6
Post by: Wilbus on August 10, 2005, 03:50:08 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Krusty
If the G2 started to run with a higher E state, then it can out run a p38. The p38 might have blown some speed while manuvering to follow the 109, and thus been slower.


The G2 will outrun the 38 as long as it has wep, going by your numbers, but it has 15 minutes of WEP. It would run out of gas before it ran outta WEP :P


Well as Widewing said, either it was a P38G or the P38 didn't bother chasing the 109 for very long at all.

It's not 15 minutes of WEP, it's 10 minutes contineus.
Title: G2 vs G6
Post by: Schutt on August 10, 2005, 06:48:47 AM
Might also be the P38 didnt want to run into enemy teritorry.

I prefer the G2, the skins look better. When i die i at least want to look good.

BTW your turnrate measures show a little advantage to the G2, using no flaps and 167mph for turning. And to me it feels like its easier to hold a G2 on the edge than its to hold a G6.
Title: G2 vs G6
Post by: TracerX on August 10, 2005, 03:11:49 PM
Although I love the G-2 and its cool skins, I agree with Kweassa the 30mm gun package is spectacularly good.  I enter an engagement with the only purpose to get one or two shots at D200 or less.  The 30mm will end the fight with only a single hit, two hits are tremendously satisfying.  It goes something like this Bang...Bang...Kaboom!!  Brings a smile to my face every time.  :aok
Title: G2 vs G6
Post by: TheThang on August 10, 2005, 03:31:52 PM
Personally i think the g6 has the coolest skin in the game. The blue on with light blue squiggles
Title: G2 vs G6
Post by: OOZ662 on August 10, 2005, 08:03:14 PM
Thang, you're such a bling tard :rofl
Title: G2 vs G6
Post by: Soda on August 11, 2005, 12:04:25 PM
Quote
Originally posted by TracerX
Although I love the G-2 and its cool skins, I agree with Kweassa the 30mm gun package is spectacularly good.  I enter an engagement with the only purpose to get one or two shots at D200 or less.  The 30mm will end the fight with only a single hit, two hits are tremendously satisfying.  It goes something like this Bang...Bang...Kaboom!!  Brings a smile to my face every time.  :aok


I tend to feel that the advantage isn't in the cannon though but in the cowl guns. the G2 cowl guns are near useless whereas the G6's are quite credible.  The 30mm, for the average players, is simply too difficult to use thus they don't get any advantage from it.  I also think the 30mm makes the aircraft a bit more unbalanced, or so it feels to me.
Title: G2 vs G6
Post by: Krusty on August 11, 2005, 12:09:39 PM
THAT is what I don't get.. nobody can hit reliably with the 30mm!! It takes a lot of practice, and close ranges... And yet in reality the cannon ranges were longer than MG ranges! Bomber crews reported being hit by cannon by planes outside their gun range (albeit even if only outside guns range for a short moment). The 30mm was supposed to have LONG range, and with that long range could be fired with the standard gunsight, but in AH it's almost useless for anything past d200.
Title: G2 vs G6
Post by: Soda on August 11, 2005, 02:11:31 PM
Krusty,
  I think you should read some of the materials from Tony Williams or pick up his book(s).

  The 109 had the Mk108 30mm cannon which fired the 30x90RB round.  That round had a muzzle velocity of only 505m/s which is slow.  Compare that to the 20mm Mg151/20 option which had a muzzle velocity from 720-800m/s (depending on round).  Slower round flight, longer flight time to target, more gravity induced acceleration (drop)... those are NOT the reciepe for "Easier" aiming/hitting.
Title: G2 vs G6
Post by: DrDea on August 11, 2005, 04:12:15 PM
Anyone that knows me knows I fly the 109's pretty much exclusivly.Im more inclined to fly the G6 over the G2.Its the guns.Im a tater tard too:aok
Title: G2 vs G6
Post by: MOSQ on August 11, 2005, 10:24:18 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Krusty
THAT is what I don't get.. nobody can hit reliably with the 30mm!! It takes a lot of practice, and close ranges... And yet in reality the cannon ranges were longer than MG ranges! Bomber crews reported being hit by cannon by planes outside their gun range (albeit even if only outside guns range for a short moment). The 30mm was supposed to have LONG range, and with that long range could be fired with the standard gunsight, but in AH it's almost useless for anything past d200.


Krusty,

AH models air density. If you take a 109 up to 30K and fire at the ring target you will see you have double the range of sea level shots because the air is so much thinner.

In WW2 the 109s were fighting bombers at high alts, not our MA dive bombing field vulching B-24s at 1K.
Title: G2 vs G6
Post by: Urchin on August 12, 2005, 10:55:10 PM
I think Mandoble tested the dispersion of the 30mm a while back and it was pretty big.  I personally prefer the 20mm, I fire it with the mg's... stuff still falls down when you hit.
Title: G2 vs G6
Post by: Krusty on August 12, 2005, 11:01:22 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Urchin
I think Mandoble tested the dispersion of the 30mm a while back and it was pretty big.  I personally prefer the 20mm, I fire it with the mg's... stuff still falls down when you hit.


I remember that test now, and I believe the 30mm dispersion was a large cone of random hits that was 3x the diameter of historical tests, and the test showed that dispersion was random instead of centrally clustered, if I recall?

re: 20mm

word

but I just can't force myself to use 20mm when there's that lure of the instant 30mm kill! It's masochistic, I KNOW, but I just can't stop choosing the 30mm on 109s!!
Title: G2 vs G6
Post by: Urchin on August 13, 2005, 10:24:15 PM
I used to be alright with the 30mm, but even inside of 100 yards it is a crapshoot as to whether or not you will hit.  You can set up the shot perfectly and still miss more than half the time with the 30mm, since the ROF is so low and it scatters so much.  

With the 20mm and the MGs, you are putting out enough lead that you'll at least hit the guy if you don't knock him down.
Title: G2 vs G6
Post by: Krusty on August 13, 2005, 11:18:27 PM
I think I shall abandon my 30mm masochism and stick to only 20mm for the future.. see if I can train myself to shoot in a 109 again!
Title: G2 vs G6
Post by: wetrat on August 14, 2005, 05:03:26 AM
It's possible to master taters and be able to get 10 kills on your 65 stack with some ammo to spare, but it takes a LOT of work. The key is to set your convergence to 225. I can't hit a damn thing on any other setting, but it's fairly consistent for me at 225.
Title: G2 vs G6
Post by: Krusty on August 14, 2005, 11:18:44 PM
Hrm... I think I have mine set to 325 (MGs set to 275). Darn. Now I have to go and try 225 (once I install AH on the new system)
Title: G2 vs G6
Post by: Urchin on August 15, 2005, 08:52:35 AM
Won't matter much.. took up a G6 today with the 30mm, had a P-38 fly in between the rounds twice in one fight.  

The gun just isn't reliable enough to use... better luck with the 20mm, or just fly a plane with Hizookas and get all the hitting power with a much nicer trajectory and ROF.
Title: G2 vs G6
Post by: Schutt on August 15, 2005, 09:05:13 AM
My problem is i dont know when the rounds go off... do you fire continuosly or only fire one by one round?

Also it might be that the sound is missleading, maybe the fire sound doesnt sync with the gun on continuous?
Title: G2 vs G6
Post by: Krusty on August 15, 2005, 10:27:12 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Urchin
Won't matter much.. took up a G6 today with the 30mm, had a P-38 fly in between the rounds twice in one fight.  

The gun just isn't reliable enough to use... better luck with the 20mm, or just fly a plane with Hizookas and get all the hitting power with a much nicer trajectory and ROF.


That's CHEATING Urchin!!! :P

If I wanted easy no-chance-of-missing kills I'd fly a spitV all the time, but I don't. :)
Title: G2 vs G6
Post by: Krusty on August 15, 2005, 10:29:00 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Schutt
My problem is i dont know when the rounds go off... do you fire continuosly or only fire one by one round?

Also it might be that the sound is missleading, maybe the fire sound doesnt sync with the gun on continuous?


Short bursts... Like 3-5 (5 tops if I can control myself). And for MGs I don't know if the sounds are synched, but on the slow ROF of the 30mm I think they are synched. "Puff puff puff" usually equates to 3 shells fired to me. Easiest way to find out is to enable tracers and watch and listen at the same time.
Title: G2 vs G6
Post by: wetrat on August 15, 2005, 01:27:54 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Urchin
The gun just isn't reliable enough to use...  
I whole-heartedly disagree... it's perfectly reliable, but it's HARD. It's much easier to set up and hit shots with 20mm, but if you can get the tater technique down, the G10 is a far better weapon with them. I won't even fly the G6 without 30mm... the plane sucks too much for me to risk not having quick kills.
Title: G2 vs G6
Post by: Urchin on August 15, 2005, 01:51:20 PM
When the gun fires slow enough that a plane 100 yards away can fly between rounds... I don't think it is a very reliable method of getting kills.  

That said, if you could fire your first shot timed well enough that it would be in the right general area when the target got there, depending on which way the round decides to deviate it could concievably be a better way to kill then 1x20mm + 2x13mm.  

I find it much easier to kill people with one burst from the latter though.
Title: G2 vs G6
Post by: Krusty on August 15, 2005, 05:43:10 PM
Urchin, due to its limitations (velocity, rate of fire) it's not suitable to get shots from top-down passes (like the target cuts across 90 degrees from your plane of alignment). But if you get a partial deflection like 45 degrees or so, and get a nice saddle position from the rear it's a wonderful gun.
Title: G2 vs G6
Post by: Urchin on August 15, 2005, 06:22:23 PM
Ah, but those are exactly the kinds of shots that minimize one of its limitations (namely, the dispersment of the rounds).  

I'm just not a real big fan of the 30mm I guess.