Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Kev367th on August 03, 2005, 03:49:37 PM
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Thanks for the chat yesterday.
Great to see the Spit 14 reduced in cost. Seen more Spit 14 in the last 2 days than the last 2 years of AH.
You gave us a nice Spit lineup, what are your thoguhts on the 109/190 opponents for them?
1940 - Spit I / 109E
1941 - Spit Vb / ?
1942 - Spit F IX/ ?
1943 - Spit LF VIII (OK no real historic opponent, a free for the LW)
1944 - Spit LF XVI / ?
1945 - Spit F XIV / ?
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1940 - Spit I / 109E
1941 - Spit Vb / ?
1942 - Spit F IX / ?
1943 - Spit LF VIII / A6M2/A6M3/A6M5b/J2M3a/N1K1-J/N1K2-J/Ki-43/Ki-44/Ki-61/Ki-84
1944 - Spit LF XVI / ?
1945 - Spit F XIV / ?
:p
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I don't see the need to break it down only by year, as some 109s flew for well over a year. The E-3/4 flew for a relatively short period of time, but it is essential as an important variant. Consider in '41 you had both the F4 adn the E7. And in 42 you still had the F4 and the E7. And in 43 you got heavier better armed 109s in simultaneous development (basically our G-6 now). The G10 (k4) we have would be a late 44 model, but that doesn't mean the G6 wasn't flying up til '44.
So I don't see why you have to base it solely on year. That's misleading, as the E-7, which is a '41 plane, served into late '42, see what I mean?
I'd rather see important marks, even if the years aren't all filled. Even if some years are close to each other.
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Yeah I knew the Ki's etc for the VIII, interested more in the historical opponents for the rest.
Bearing in mind TOD, so this is most likely what we'll get.
So -
Find a historic opponent and fill in the ? marks.
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Originally posted by Karnak
1943 - Spit LF VIII / A6M2/A6M3/A6M5b/J2M3a/N1K1-J/N1K2-J/Ki-43/Ki-44/Ki-61/Ki-84
:p
Karnak you IJA/IJN junky, you :)
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Originally posted by Krusty
I don't see the need to break it down only by year, as some 109s flew for well over a year. The E-3/4 flew for a relatively short period of time, but it is essential as an important variant. Consider in '41 you had both the F4 adn the E7. And in 42 you still had the F4 and the E7. And in 43 you got heavier better armed 109s in simultaneous development (basically our G-6 now). The G10 (k4) we have would be a late 44 model, but that doesn't mean the G6 wasn't flying up til '44.
So I don't see why you have to base it solely on year. That's misleading, as the E-7, which is a '41 plane, served into late '42, see what I mean?
I'd rather see important marks, even if the years aren't all filled. Even if some years are close to each other.
Yes it is that simple -
eg The Mk V originally came out in 1941, but were still flying D-Day.
Your forgetting TOD - They are most likely looking for historical matchups.
From your point of view we should have started getting into Spit XII's etc, but in our Spit threads we concentrated on what was the most typical and most produced Spit for each year, and Pyro agreed.
Look on the brightside - you may get 6 x 109's and 5 x 190's (no 190 v Mk I Spit)
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1940 - Spit I / 109E
1941 - Spit Vb / 109 E-7/109 F-4 (Even Pyro's said the F-4 and SpitV are historic adversaries)
1942 - Spit F IX/ 109G-2 (not a real match but it was there) and 190A-5 (what the spit9 was made to combat)
1943 - Spit LF VIII / 109G-6 and 190a-8
1944 - Spit LF XVI / ? (Still don't know if we're getting this -- climb rate is through the roof, so I won't use it, possibly a new 109 like G14 or something between G6 and K4)
1945 - Spit F XIV / 109K-4 and 190d-9
EDIT: Removed quotes
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Nice list Krusty, makes sense.
Yes we ARE getting the Spit XVI, at 18lbs initially, possibly upped to more realistic for the year 25lbs boost at a later date.
OK question on 1945?
If the Spit XIV perked, should the opponents be perked at a similar cost?
For the Mk VIII substitute an LF IX opponent, as it would be able to stand in for a 1943 LF IX
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Knowing how the 109s fly, and their relatively weak guns (and bad ammo load and general trajectory on the 30mm) I don't believe so. They're much MUCH less of a threat than the spit14.
P.S. I don't think anything will be perked in TOD. Just the MA. So when I say 109K4 is less of a threat than the spit14, I'm talking in the MA, not in team vs team warfare.
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Even a light perk 5 or so?
Or do you want the late war speed monsters free of charge? remembering that in the MA the Spit 14 is nothing more that a fast Spit down down low where the fights takes place.
In which case theres a perfect reason to put the Mk XVI straight in at 25lbs boost.
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Originally posted by Krusty
Knowing how the 109s fly, and their relatively weak guns (and bad ammo load and general trajectory on the 30mm) I don't believe so. They're much MUCH less of a threat than the spit14.
P.S. I don't think anything will be perked in TOD. Just the MA. So when I say 109K4 is less of a threat than the spit14, I'm talking in the MA, not in team vs team warfare.
But you are basing this on your opinion of the AH 109s right Krusty? In your view they aren't performing like they should.
So because of that the Spits should be perked but not any comparable LW bird?
Right now the XIV, which got into combat a lot sooner then the D9, is perked but the D9 is not.
Does this make sense?
It still comes down to the planes you like to fly aren't doing what you want them to do, so the guys who like to fly Spits get penalized because they like Spits which do more then you think they should do?
Dan/CorkyJr
Unperk em all
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1940 - Spit I (+12lbs boost as of March 1940. All Merlin III fitted with C.P props by August 1940)
1940 - 109E-4 (May 1940, Also most of the earlier Emils were upgraded to the E-4 standard during the summer of 1940)
1941 - Spit Vb (12 Ibs, February 1941. 2 SQN The British Fighter Since 1912. Mason)
1941 - 109F-4 (1.3ata, the first F-4s reached the front line units in June 1941. Prien & Rodeike)
1942 - Spit F IX (May 1942. 81 SQN The British Fighter Since 1912 Mason)
1942 - 109G-2 ( June 1942. The first units, III/JG 52 and I/JG 54, received their G-2s in June 1942. The first loss reports are from July 7th and 8th 1942. Prien & Rodeike)
1943 - Spit LF VIII (?)
1943 - 109G-6 (G-6 Entered service and saw action with II/JG 53, II/JG 77, JG 27 and JG 51 in February 1943. Prien & Rodeike)
1944 - Spit LF XVI (18 lbs boost ?)
1944 - 109G-14 (G-14 entered service with II/JG 11 and Stab/JG 53 in July 1944)
Late 1944 - Spit F XIV (21lbs boost ?)
Late 1944 - 109G-10/K-4 (October 1944 / K-4 Entered service with III/JG 4, Stab+I,II,III,IV/JG 27 and II/Jg 77 in October 1944. Prien & Rodeike, H. Valtonen)
For the 109s the best choice for a new variant would be a Bf 109G-14. About 5500 made (abt. 1000 of which were G-14/AS versions).
If they were to split the G-10/K-4 hybrid into actual variants (G-10 around 425 mph / K-4 452mph) then the G-10 could server as a sub for the G-6/AS and G-14/AS. If they model the K-4 based on C3 + MW50 at 1.98 ata then it should be perked (maybe a small perk anyway).
A few 109s that would be useful for scenarios / ToD would be the 109E-7 and 109F-2. However, these maybe a bit much given the work load.
The Spit fans will have to fill in the blanks above in regards to service entry dates. There's talk of adding a Seafire L.III @ 18 lbs boost as well. I am not sure where that plane would fit in...
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But you are basing this on your opinion of the AH 109s right Krusty? In your view they aren't performing like they should.
He just makes it up as he goes. When challenged to present facts he then uses the lame excuse 'can't a guy have an opinion'...
Just ignore it...
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I don't think you can perk on speed alone, except in the case of jets. The speed of the 109s is nowhere near the fastest in the game. Half a dozen allied planes outrun it easily. It's overall killing capability (and sometimes over-use) that dictates what should be perked, or at least the perk points of an aircraft. 109K4 may be relatively fast (but that's compared to spitfires, which are notoriously slow anyways). However it's still not very nimble and not very well armed, compared to standard 6x50cal and 2000 rounds for allied planes, and 2x20mm 250rounds & 4x303cal 1200rounds for most spits, it's got a mere 500 50cal and 60 30mm. So it can't kill nearly as much. The speed helps in certain areas, zooms, climbs, etc, but it still can't wing over inside a p51's turn radius, nor can it hope to out turn a spit. So you can see while it has some speed over the spitfires, it's still by no means a "monster". I'd respect it enough to be wary, but I think it'd be on even footing with most other planes in the game.
All opinion, mind you, and only time and arena logs will tell otherwise, but that's my take on it.
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Originally posted by Wotan
He just makes it up as he goes. When challenged to present facts he then uses the lame excuse 'can't a guy have an opinion'...
Just ignore it...
Excuse me? Keep your flamebait to yourself, Wotan. You've been rather hostile and holier-than-thou to me, and without warrant.
"just ignore it" good advice. You're now on my ignore list.
Guppy:
"In your view they aren't performing like they should."
When have I said that? I think the 109s are pretty damn good as they are. Like I said if we get NO change at all with the 109s I'll still be happy. Anything else is icing on the cake.
I was basing that with my experience flying in the 109s and their average lethality with average pilots (using me as basis for the average pilot). They're a threat, but nowhere near as much of a threat as a spitfireXIV, lethality wise.
As for perking doras, I'll stay out of that. I really don't care. But consider that the dora has its drawbacks. It can't turn under 170mph without stalling horrible. It can't even compete against p51s, let alone super spits that climb better than p51s and turn much tighter, down to speeds of 120mph and lower.
Still nowhere near the threat an average pilot in a spit14 is. Also, if they're so much of a threat, why are they Run90s, instead of Fight-90s?
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Originally posted by Wotan
1940 - Spit I (+12lbs boost as of March 1940. All Merlin III fitted with C.P props by August 1940)
1940 - 109E-4 (May 1940, Also most of the earlier Emils were upgraded to the E-4 standard during the summer of 1940)
1941 - Spit Vb (12 Ibs, February 1941. 2 SQN The British Fighter Since 1912. Mason)
1941 - 109F-4 (1.3ata, the first F-4s reached the front line units in June 1941. Prien & Rodeike)
1942 - Spit F IX (May 1942. 81 SQN The British Fighter Since 1912 Mason)
1942 - 109G-2 ( June 1942. The first units, III/JG 52 and I/JG 54, received their G-2s in June 1942. The first loss reports are from July 7th and 8th 1942. Prien & Rodeike)
1943 - Spit LF VIII (?)
1943 - 109G-6 (G-6 Entered service and saw action with II/JG 53, II/JG 77, JG 27 and JG 51 in February 1943. Prien & Rodeike)
1944 - Spit LF XVI (18 lbs boost ?)
1944 - 109G-14 (G-14 entered service with II/JG 11 and Stab/JG 53 in July 1944)
Late 1944 - 109G-10/K-4 (October 1944 / K-4 Entered service with III/JG 4, Stab+I,II,III,IV/JG 27 and II/Jg 77 in October 1944. Prien & Rodeike, H. Valtonen)
Late 44 - Spit F XIV (21lbs boost ?)
For the 109s the best choice for a new variant would be a Bf 109G-14. About 5500 made (abt. 1000 of which were G-14/AS versions).
If they were to split the G-10/K-4 hybrid into actual variants (G-10 around 425 mph / K-4 452mph) then the G-10 could server as a sub for the G-6/AS and G-14/AS. If they model the K-4 based on C3 + MW50 at 1.98 ata then it should be perked (maybe a small perk anyway).
A few 109s that would be useful for scenarios / ToD would be the 109E-7 and 109F-2. However, these maybe a bit much given the work load.
The Spit fans will have to fill in the blanks above in regards to service entry dates. There's talk of adding a Seafire L.III @ 18 lbs boost as well. I am not sure where that plane would fit in...
The dates are service entry (just did by year and picking the most produced version of Spit).
Seafire L III would be Med/Far East.
If it helps
This is from talking to Pyro what he is planning, so fill in 109/190
1940 - Spit I 12lbs / 109E4
1941 - Spit Vb 12lbs / 109F4 + ?
1942 - Spit F IX / 109G2 + ?
1943 - Spit VIII 18lbs (no real LW opponent so pick 2 historic opponents for LF IX) ?
1944 - Spit XVI 18lbs (poss 25lbs, more historic) /?
1945 - Spit XIV 21lbs (more XIVs in 45 with 21lb than 1944) / ?
These are the most produced Mks for each year, instead of the lets have Vb, Vc, XII etc.
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Half a dozen?
I can think of two unperked allied fighters than can outrun the 109G-10 at SL, the La-7 and Typhoon. At high alt only the P-47N can out run it. Even the perked F4U-4 and Spitfire Mk XIV can't out run it.
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A couple of other things to note...
Remove the gondola option for the 109F-4. These were never used operationallly.
Remove or restrict the 3cm option for the G-6. It would remain an option for the G-14 (if AH gets one) and the G-10. K-4 had 3cm only...
Butched posted the following on his AAW2 forum
G-6/U4
Produced 1943 : 181
01/1944 : 119
02/1944 : 51
03/1944 : 303
04/1944 : 404
05/1944 : 118
06/1944 : 144
07/1944 : 240
08/1944 : 49
09/1944 : 55
10/1944 : 14
Total G-6/U4 production = 1678
Sum G-6/U4 = 1678, which would be 14% out of the ca.12.000 produced
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Im still not sure which spit 8 are we gonna get
Did pyro said clipped or full wing?
(Comment: pls let it be clipped wing so it can play with Ki-84s and 109s and 190s fairly:))
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Wotan,
Pyro mentioned in another thread that the Bf109G-10 is being removed from the 109 lineup.
I'd bet this means a Bf109K-4 and Bf109G-14 will be in the lineup.
Originally posted by 1K3
Im still not sure which spit 8 are we gonna get
Did pyro said clipped or full wing?
(Comment: pls let it be clipped wing so it can play with Ki-84s and 109s and 190s fairly:))
I doubt it would be clipped as very few VIIIs were. I would not want it clipped if it were my choice. Keeping it full span helps differentiate it from the XVI.
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Originally posted by 1K3
Im still not sure which spit 8 are we gonna get
Did pyro said clipped or full wing?
(Comment: pls let it be clipped wing so it can play with Ki-84s and 109s and 190s fairly:))
There were very few clipped VIIIs, none in the Pacific that I've ever seen. The clipped VIIIs I've seen images of are all from the MTO.
Better to go full span for the LFVIII, in particular since the LFXVIe is a clipped Spit.
Dan/CorkyJr
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The dates are service entry (just did by year and picking the most produced version of Spit).
Seafire L III would be Med/Far East.
If it helps
This is from talking to Pyro what he is planning, so fill in 109/190
1940 - Spit I 12lbs / 109E4
1941 - Spit Vb 12lbs / 109F4 + ?
1942 - Spit F IX / 109G2 + ?
1943 - Spit VIII 18lbs (no real LW opponent so pick 2 historic opponents for LF IX) ?
1944 - Spit XVI 18lbs (poss 25lbs, more historic) /?
1945 - Spit XIV 21lbs (more XIVs in 45 with 21lb than 1944) / ?
These are the most produced Mks for each year, instead of the lets have Vb, Vc, XII etc.
It doesn't really matter if its sevice dates, or or most produced during a given year, or even if the VIII's real opponent was the G-14.
What it does is show that by year there is a method by which you could match planes up. I will say that not every planes needs to be 'matched up' but for the sake of discussion the info I provided gives a general outline for how things will 'layout' should HTC follow along those lines.
Also forget '45, with in the context of this discussion. There are no '45 aircraft (less the C3 + MW50, 1.98 ata K-4, which AH wont see anyway).
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Originally posted by Karnak
Half a dozen?
I can think of two unperked allied fighters than can outrun the 109G-10 at SL, the La-7 and Typhoon. At high alt only the P-47N can out run it. Even the perked F4U-4 and Spitfire Mk XIV can't out run it.
Yup and thereby hangs the whole problem.
At the alts where a typical MA furball takes place the Spit XIV is no more of a threat than the D9, G10, La7, Tiffy, Pony.
So if the Spit XIV deserves a light perk for its alt performance and climb rate in the MA, then surely at least whatever replaces the G10 will get similar treatment.
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Originally posted by Wotan
It doesn't really matter if its sevice dates, or or most produced during a given year, or even if the VIII's real opponent was the G-14.
What it does is show that by year there is a method by which you could match planes up. I will say that not every planes needs to be 'matched up' but for the sake of discussion the info I provided gives a general outline for how things will 'layout' should HTC follow along those lines.
Also forget '45, with in the context of this discussion. There are no '45 aircraft (less the C3 + MW50, 1.98 ata K-4, which AH wont see anyway).
Actaully if you think about TOD, I suspect you'll find that he IS looking for a historical matchup.
Pyro also mentioned use in scenarios and the CT, so historical matchups are more likely to appear than a non historic one I would guess.
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Originally posted by Kev367th
At the alts where a typical MA furball takes place the Spit XIV is no more of a threat than the D9, G10, La7, Tiffy, Pony.
That isn't really true. The Spit XIV is better able to capitalize on any error the enemy makes. It's manueverablity coupled with it's sheer power give it a combination of options not available to those others.
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Pyro mentioned in another thread that the Bf109G-10 is being removed from the 109 lineup.
I would ask, why remove it?
Just re-do, re-vamp its FM / performance and keep it in the set. (425mph verses 452mph):
G-6 - 385 mph
G-14 - 410 mph
G-10 - 425 mph
K-4 452 mph (perked?)
In this case it you could use the same model for the K-4 - G-10 adjust the FM/Performance and load out options.
Seems an easy fix...
With the G-14 you could basically use the the G-6 model they currently have. Again its just a different skin with adjustments to the FM/performance (and maybe with load out should the 3cm option for the G-6 get dropped...).
The 109s, at least from this layman's point of view, won't require that much more work to get a good line up...
YMMV
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Wonder if they'll remove the TA-152?
I changed my underwear more times (almost) than the amount of them that got to see service (70 ish?).
Wotan - Of course you can match them up. The usual excuse of you cant always do that is used to try and justify multiple variants wanted for the same year, or people wanting some of the more exotic aircraft.
I'm sure a lot of the Spit fans would have liked exotic Spits like the XII, HF VII etc but they were rare, (even then more produced that the TA-152) and we stayed realistic.
Hell I would have loved to have the Spit XII and argued for it in the Spit threads, in the end I saw sense.
Thats also why we suggested the Vb instead of the Vc for 1941.
After speaking to Pyro I finished with the impression he is a level headed guy, (hence no immediate Spit 16 @ 25 boost). I'm sure if you can get together and post a REALISTIC historical matchup for his Spit lineup youll get it.
Probably guarentee one thing - if he doesnt think it will get used in a scenario/CT/TOD, you won't get it ,as he mentioned them numerous times during our talk.
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Ok... (hold your breath!:))
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/810_1123099135_spitlinup.jpg)
(from top to bottom)
Spitfire Mk. Ia
Spitfire F Mk. Vb
Spitfire F Mk. IXc
Spitfire F Mk. VIIIc
Spitfire L.F. Mk. XVIe
Spitfire F Mk. XIVe
imo Spitfire designations are complicated... and annoying!:D
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Close! There was not IXc or VIIIc.
There was a Vc but the IX and VIII were not officially designated the same way. The wing was referred to as the Universal Wing. Of course on the Spit V the Universal wing was officially called the C wing :)
The E designation was added when they went to the 2 20mm and 2 50 cals.
Dan/CorkyJr
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Originally posted by Kev367th
I changed my underwear more times (almost) than the amount of them that got to see service (70 ish?).
LOL, Kev, when did you start changing your underwear? J/K Bro,
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Originally posted by Kev367th
Wonder if they'll remove the TA-152?
I changed my underwear more times (almost) than the amount of them that got to see service (70 ish?).
Wotan - Of course you can match them up. The usual excuse of you cant always do that is used to try and justify multiple variants wanted for the same year, or people wanting some of the more exotic aircraft.
I'm sure a lot of the Spit fans would have liked exotic Spits like the XII, HF VII etc but they were rare, (even then more produced that the TA-152) and we stayed realistic.
Hell I would have loved to have the Spit XII and argued for it in the Spit threads, in the end I saw sense.
Thats also why we suggested the Vb instead of the Vc for 1941.
Don't get me going on the XII :)
Thats where my Spit passion started back in 1980 and has remained for a long long time.
I kinda figure the clipped LFXVIe is about as close as I can hope to get in AH
Dan/CorkyJr
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Originally posted by Guppy35
Close! There was not IXc or VIIIc.
There was a Vc but the IX and VIII were not officially designated the same way. The wing was referred to as the Universal Wing. Of course on the Spit V the Universal wing was officially called the C wing :)
The E designation was added when they went to the 2 20mm and 2 50 cals.
Dan/CorkyJr
Yup I remember the a,b,c,e wing discussion - oooohh my head hurts lol.
Dan - Add a bubbletop 16 to the profile.
Yeah shame about the XII but we had to be realstic, something that the LW guys don't seem to want to do -
I want multiple 109s for 1942 because this one added an automatic pamper changer to it.
I also want 109/190 that were only made in ridiculously small quantities of which very few seen active service.
I also want them ALL to be free because I'm scared that someone in a Spit VIX might kill my perky plane.
They can't even agree amonst themselves, I think by a few posts us Spitfans had all but settled on a REPRESENTATIVE Spit lineup, Pyro agreed, thats what we are getting.
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Originally posted by Kev367th
Yup I remember the a,b,c,e wing discussion - oooohh my head hurts lol.
Dan do us a profile of a bubbletop 16.
Already posted it in the other thread :)
But here it is again. Still like the classing high profile look better.
Bottom one is also an LFXVIe
Dan/CorkyJr
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/810_1123100740_spitxvilowbacktaf.jpg)
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/810_1119161581_spitxvitb382tweaked.jpg)
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Wotan - Of course you can match them up. The usual excuse of you cant always do that is used to try and justify multiple variants wanted for the same year, or people wanting some of the more exotic aircraft.
I have no idea what you are talking about at this point...
You asked in the original post:
what are your thoguhts on the 109/190 opponents for them?
My list:
1940 - Spit I (+12lbs boost as of March 1940. All Merlin III fitted with C.P props by August 1940)
1940 - 109E-4 (May 1940, Also most of the earlier Emils were upgraded to the E-4 standard during the summer of 1940)
1941 - Spit Vb (12 Ibs, February 1941. 2 SQN The British Fighter Since 1912. Mason)
1941 - 109F-4 (1.3ata, the first F-4s reached the front line units in June 1941. Prien & Rodeike)
1942 - Spit F IX (May 1942. 81 SQN The British Fighter Since 1912 Mason)
1942 - 109G-2 ( June 1942. The first units, III/JG 52 and I/JG 54, received their G-2s in June 1942. The first loss reports are from July 7th and 8th 1942. Prien & Rodeike)
1943 - Spit LF VIII (?)
1943 - 109G-6 (G-6 Entered service and saw action with II/JG 53, II/JG 77, JG 27 and JG 51 in February 1943. Prien & Rodeike)
1944 - Spit LF XVI (18 lbs boost ?)
1944 - 109G-14 (G-14 entered service with II/JG 11 and Stab/JG 53 in July 1944)
Late 1944 - Spit F XIV (21lbs boost ?)
Late 1944 - 109G-10/K-4 (October 1944 / K-4 Entered service with III/JG 4, Stab+I,II,III,IV/JG 27 and II/Jg 77 in October 1944. Prien & Rodeike, H. Valtonen)
That list is not only practical it terms of demonstrating to the unwashed masses what's what but you won't get any more 'historical' and/or 'practical' then that.
OTOH you say:
The dates are service entry (just did by year and picking the most produced version of Spit).
I reply:
It doesn't really matter if its service dates, or or most produced during a given year, or even if the VIII's real opponent was the G-14.
Meaning that if you get the Spit line up you expect, a 109 line up as I described would be the best alternative and a direct answer to your original question.
You then say:
Actaully if you think about TOD, I suspect you'll find that he IS looking for a historical matchup.
My reply being is the 109 line up I suggested is what ToD / Scenarios and events would need both historically and for practical purposes...
Now what is it you are going on about? :p
The Spit LF.VIII that AH could stand in for the Spit LF.IX... An easy 'historical' match for the G-6...
the Spit LF.XVIe CW (stand in for the Spit LF.IX CW) that Guppy suggested would fit well as a match to the G-14...
A 1944 Spit XIV @ 21lbs boost would match up well with the G-10/K-4 (perked or unperked...)
It doesn't matter if the VIII was used in the Pac or even if the Seafire III was. A Pac Tod is a long way off. In the mean time these planes will have use in WETO/MTO. As such the 109s I suggested fit well in establishing a some what historical counter to each other...
And no they won't remove the 152, why would they..? Its useless for ToD and events and only gets play in the main. What difference does it make just by being in the plane list that would require it being removed?
At this point I am not sure what it is you are saying. I made my suggestions and they are all as 'historical' and as 'practical' as AH is gonna get given the expected new Spit line up...
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Sorry Wotan misunderstood your orignal reply.
That IS the Spit lineup we are getting, the only choice Pyro is deciding on is whether the 16 comes in at 18lbs boost or 25lbs boost.
At the moment he is leaning towards 18lbs with possibly 25lbs in the future.
OK good 109 lineup you got there, 190s?
TA-152 - Just wondered, you never know, every different plane variant requires extra work by Pyro, thats why he wasn't to keen on making the Spit 16 a bubbletop one just to make it look different from the Mk8. Doing it as clipped wing 16 wasn't a problem, its easier to remove stuff than add.
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Well the 152 is there, its done... It hasn't been re-done to AH2 standards but a lot of planes haven't been re-done...
The 190s were just re-done. I wouldn't expect them to re-visit the 190s for some time...
The only 2 190s that AH would need is an 190A-3 and an A-6 (you could drop the A-5 altogether or add a 4 x MG 151/2cm option and call it an A-6... performance is the same...)
An A-9 would be nice for late war but I doubt that is reasonable...
Other then that the only new 109 needed is the G-14 and the LW day fighters will be set for the most part...
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Thats what I meant Wotan, as Pyro is redoing the 109's now he may drop the 152, you never know.
It would have been just as easy to have a Spit with extended wings as a 152, but that isn't happening.
As he said to me when discussing extended tips - 'its easier to remove (ie clip wings) than it is to add things'.
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Appreciate the work you guys are putting on the expanded plane sets.
However, why ever suggest that they remove a plane?? I will never probably fly a Ta152, but it's done, and probably someone likes it, so why not leave it there?
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Originally posted by TDeacon
Appreciate the work you guys are putting on the expanded plane sets.
However, why ever suggest that they remove a plane?? I will never probably fly a Ta152, but it's done, and probably someone likes it, so why not leave it there?
In order to keep it Pyro has to redo it doing the re-model of the Spit/109.
Just wondered if he'd bother, considering all the extra work for a plane that is very rarely used. You'd be surprised how much time adding little things or changing stuff takes, even on a base model.
Eg I was doing a Seahawk based of an existing Jayhawk model. Gave up because it was taking so long.
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In order to keep it Pyro has to redo it doing the re-model of the Spit/109.
He doesn't 'have to re-do' it now...
If anything they should have re-done when they were doing the 190s. The 152 is in no way related to the 109s... Its a Kurt Tank production..
If they choose to do it now, which is great but it doesn't get that much use to be a priority.
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Ah CC, tks.
Not as much a 190/109 officiando as I am a Spit one.
Dunno why, I just always thoguht it looked very like a 109, although never usually get close enough to it for a good look ;)
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delted, redundant post