Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Yeager on August 07, 2005, 01:12:52 AM
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anyone know? I heard earlier but I cant trust the source.
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Is it some big secret that is only being passed around through rumor?
Heard of google? It's a secret as well, don't tell anyone:
On Aug. 8, People's Commissar for Foreign Affairs of the U.S.S.R. Molotoff received the Japanese Ambassador, Mr. Sato, and gave him, on behalf of the Soviet Government, the following for transmission to the Japanese Government:
After the defeat and capitulation of Hitlerite Germany, Japan became the only great power that still stood for the continuation of the war.
The demand of the three powers, the United States, Great Britain and China, on July 26 for the unconditional surrender of the Japanese armed forces was rejected by Japan, and thus the proposal of the Japanese Government to the Soviet Union on mediation in the war in the Far East loses all basis.
Taking into consideration the refusal of Japan to capitulate, the Allies submitted to the Soviet Government a proposal to join the war against Japanese aggression and thus shorten the duration of the war, reduce the number of victims and facilitate the speedy restoration of universal peace.
Loyal to its Allied duty, the Soviet Government has accepted the proposals of the Allies and has joined in the declaration of the Allied powers of July 26.
The Soviet Government considers that this policy is the only means able to bring peace nearer, free the people from further sacrifice and suffering and give the Japanese people the possibility of avoiding the dangers and destruction suffered by Germany after her refusal to capitulate unconditionally.
In view of the above, the Soviet Government declares that from tomorrow, that is from Aug. 9, the Soviet Government will consider itself to be at war with Japan.[/i]
Burn this after you read it...
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Also for those that think the Soviet's invasion of Manchuria just 90 days after defeating Hitler was a cake walk here's a link to a study of this invasion made by the US Army's, 'Combat Stidies Institute':
August Storm (http://cgsc.leavenworth.army.mil/carl/resources/csi/glantz3/glantz3.asp)
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Originally posted by Yeager
anyone know? I heard earlier but I cant trust the source.
Which time? Think it was first in 1905, then in 38, then 45.
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My understanding is that Russia wanted to reconquer lands it had lost.... All about territory....
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Originally posted by Wotan
Is it some big secret that is only being passed around through rumor?
Heard of google? It's a secret as well, don't tell anyone:
Burn this after you read it...
Yeah right.... bunch of bs.... Russia wanted land... Not peace....
lol Loyal to its allies is a friggin joke.
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Originally posted by Rino
Which time? Think it was first in 1905, then in 38, then 45.
After 1917 it was the Soviet Union, so the answer must be the 1904/5 war.
Russia was attacked by Japan on Feb 8, 1904.
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Russia declared war against Japan on August 9th?
They were fighting Japanese forces for months but declared war only after the atomic detonations?
Whats up with that?
Is there an expert who can advise me. The www (g00gle) is full of lies and halftruths, I prefer this BsB and its expert force of elite historians.
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Originally posted by Yeager
Russia declared war against Japan on August 9th?
They were fighting Japanese forces for months but declared war only after the atomic detonations?
Whats up with that?
Is there an expert who can advise me. The www (g00gle) is full of lies and halftruths, I prefer this BsB and its expert force of elite historians.
Stalin said (cant remember what conference) 90 days after the end of the war in Europe he would declare war on Japan. May 8th was the end in Europe so August 9th is exactly/close enough 90 days.
whats funny is that I am a history major :) lol Just finished my minor in anthropology. hehe
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Ask yourself why we dropped those nukes a couple days before the Russians joined the war....
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They were fighting Japanese forces for months but declared war only after the atomic detonations?
The Soviets and Japanese weren't fighting for months. They signed an agreement with Japan following the Battle of Khalkhin Gol on 16 Sept. '39. Japan and the Soviet Union weren't at war until 9 Aug '45.
In fact the Japanese wanted no part in a war with the Soviet Union after having their arses handed to them in '39. This reluctance to fight and confirmation of this reluctance through Soviets spies in Japan allowed the Soviets to shift forces west.
Fresh Siberian troops were crucial in stopping and counter attacking the Germans at Moscow and played an important role in Germany's defeat at Stalingrad...
The Soviet commitment to the Western Allies to declare war on Japan was always based on the defeat of Germany first. Some of the same troops that fought in or near Berlin had to shipped around the world before the invasion could begin.
The attack on Manchuria was no small blow. If you understand why the Japanese invaded Manchuria to begin with then you will know the importance it had in Japanese war production.
It took the Soviets that long to shift forces from Europe to the East. The Soviets had strung along the Japanese during this time frame by entertaining various Japanese proposals.
The Japanese made an offer of surrender as long as the Emperor could remain in power. It was rejected obviously because the Soviets declared war on Japan.
Even after the bomb was dropped the Japanese made this same offer directly to the Western allies and it was rejected. It was even implied by the US that the Emperor might stand trial for war crimes and if found guilty maybe even executed.
MacArthur intervened when he heard of this stating that to the Japanese executing their emperor would be like crucifying Christ.
Finally the the allies backed down from that position and excepted surrender with the Emperor still holding his position.
Why did Japan give up? Many reasons but at least some in the government were looking for a way out for some time.
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Originally posted by Wotan
In fact the Japanese wanted no part in a war with the Soviet Union after having their arses handed to them in '39. This reluctance to fight and confirmation of this reluctance through Soviets spies in Japan allowed the Soviets to shift forces east.
Fresh Siberian troops were crucial in stopping and counter attacking the Germans at Moscow and played an important role in Germany's defeat at Stalingrad...
Is not Moscow WEST of Siberia?
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typo...
You could have just typed 'gotcha!!!'
Whatever it takes to get through...
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Originally posted by Raider179
Ask yourself why we dropped those nukes a couple days before the Russians joined the war....
Yep. A communist North Japan would have been an awesome addition to the wonders that were North Korea and East Germany!!! The atom bombs saved far more lives than just the people who have died in the invasion.
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thanks woton, makes sense.
Russia was just looking out for its own best interest, as nations seem to want to do.
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Originally posted by Wotan
The Japanese made an offer of surrender as long as the Emperor could remain in power. It was rejected obviously because the Soviets declared war on Japan.
Even after the bomb was dropped the Japanese made this same offer directly to the Western allies and it was rejected. It was even implied by the US that the Emperor might stand trial for war crimes and if found guilty maybe even executed.
MacArthur intervened when he heard of this stating that to the Japanese executing their emperor would be like crucifying Christ.
Finally the the allies backed down from that position and excepted surrender with the Emperor still holding his position.
Why did Japan give up? Many reasons but at least some in the government were looking for a way out for some time.
I have to differ on the on fact with the emperor. My understanding is that at Yatla it had been decided about the timing of Russian entry into the war with Japan. U.S. offered a surrender to Japan that included the fact that the emperor "might be tried and executed" and it was rejected by the Japenese. After the bombs got dropped and The Soviet Union joined the war, the same terms were agreed upon, unconditional surrender, but the emperor would not be tried of war crimes or any other criminal charge. Japenese didnt make the offer, they accepted ours.
True on the mcarthur story.
You can look up the japense council decisions during that time and you will see they were very divided on whether to surrender. Ultimately it was the emperor's decision.
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Originally posted by Yeager
thanks woton, makes sense.
Russia was just looking out for its own best interest, as nations seem to want to do.
Russia and Japan fought 4 "engagements" in the first 20 years or so of the 20th century. Russia lost territory and found a way to get it back...
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Originally posted by Raider179
Russia and Japan fought 4 "engagements" in the first 20 years or so of the 20th century. Russia lost territory and found a way to get it back...
Oh...now I have to ask for source.
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Originally posted by Russian
Oh...now I have to ask for source.
No problem, how bout I give you the engagements and you go check em yourself. 1904/05 Japenese-russian war, invasion of eastern siberia following the boshevik revolution1917-1922, summer 1939 clash between the Soviet union and Japenese along Mongolian-Chinese border at Khalkin Gol, and of course WW2.
4 times....
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Errr... nm, I thought it was XXI, not just XX.
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Originally posted by Raider179
Ask yourself why we dropped those nukes a couple days before the Russians joined the war....
Ok...
"Self.... why did we drop those nukes a couple days before the Russians joined the war?"
I'll let you know when I answer..... :p