Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Raider179 on August 07, 2005, 03:08:44 AM
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Since I have posted a lot of Anti-bush threads, here is my pro-bush thread.
1)Economy is doing better.
2)No further terrorist attacks since 9/11.
Feel free to add to this, but lets keep the negative stuff in another thread. Just want to see what the positives are.
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2)No further terrorist attacks since 9/11.
lol
is this a joke??
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Originally posted by BUG_EAF322
lol
is this a joke??
Oh sorry should I have said inside the US, Because I would have thought anyone with an ounce of sense would have figured that out for themselves. :aok
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More americans die outside the USA since hes president also.
2 points btw is a lot from someone who wants to think positive.
lol
:rofl :rofl
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Originally posted by BUG_EAF322
More americans die outside the USA since hes president also.
2 points btw is a lot from someone who wants to thinkin positive.
lol
:rofl :rofl
Oh I see you didnt read the part that said "positive only"
As for the two points, Those are two pretty important points, but I guess you don't consider not being attacked in America since 9/11 a good job. Where do you live again? Never mind forget it. Keep it positive or please leave the thread. Lords knows there are enough anti-bush threads for you to use. just search for my name ;)
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2nd Amendment erosion halted.
Income tax escalation halted.
Kyoto ratification cancelled.
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Cleaning up in Afghanistan is good.
If he has had anything to do with raising oil prices that is good too. ;)
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Originally posted by FUNKED1
Kyoto ratification cancelled.
Yeah starting to look like Kyoto would have given a leg up to China. Still think it should have been altered and then ratified but perhaps that wasnt an option.
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Originally posted by BUG_EAF322
More americans die outside the USA since hes president also.
I would think that more Amercans die inside the USA than outside... I mean it just stands to reason.
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Originally posted by Holden McGroin
I would think that more Amercans die inside the USA than outside... I mean it just stands to reason.
LOL whoa whoa whoa...
Dont go bringing an ideal like reason into this thread :) lol
Thinking for oneself is not only frowned upon, it is shunned. On the other hand, common sense can make one look stupid. lol or lack thereof
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I think he ment that more americans are killed outside america now than outside america before.
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That not what he said though. He left it kind of nebulous.
he said
More americans die outside the USA since hes president also.
Not more Americans than Chinese. A cubic metric s***load of Chinese die outside the US every day.
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Abortion & Traditional Values
Banned Partial Birth Abortion by far the most significant roll-back of abortion on demand since Roe v. Wade.
Reversed Clinton's move to strike Reagan's anti-abortion Mexico Policy.
By Executive Order (EO), reversed Clinton's policy of not requiring parental consent for abortions under the Medical Privacy Act.
By EO, prohibited federal funds for international family planning groups that provide abortions and related services.
Upheld the ban on abortions at military hospitals.
Made $33 million available for abstinence education programs in 2004.
Supports the Defense of Marriage Act and a Constitutional amendment saying marriage is between one man and one woman.
Requires states to conduct criminal background checks on prospective foster and adoptive parents.
Requires districts to let students transfer out of dangerous schools.
Requires schools to have a zero-tolerance policy for classroom disruption (reintroducing discipline into classrooms).
Signed the Teacher Protection Act, which protects teachers from lawsuits related to student discipline.
Expanded the role of faith-based and community organizations in after-school programs.
Budget, Taxes & Economy
Signed two income tax cuts, one of which was the largest dollar-value tax cut in world history.
Supports permanent elimination of the death tax.
Turned around an inherited economy that was in recession, and deeply shocked as a result of the 9/11 attacks.
Is seeking legislation to amend the Constitution to give the president line-item veto authority.
In process of permanently eliminating IRS marriage penalty.
Increased small business incentives to expand and to hire new people.
Initiated discussion on privatizing Social Security and individual investment accounts.
Killed Clinton's "ergonomic" rules that OSHA was about to implement; rules would have shut down every home business in America.
Passed tough new laws to hold corporate criminals to account as a result of corporate scandals.
Reduced taxes on dividends and capital gains.
Signed trade promotion authority.
Reduced and is working to ultimately eliminate the estate tax for family farms and ranches.
Fight Europe's ban on importing biotech crops from the United States.
Exempt food from unilateral trade sanctions and embargoes.
Provided $20 million to states to help people with disabilities work from home.
Created a fund to encourage technologies that help the disabled.
Increased the annual contribution limit on Education IRA's from $500 to $2,000 per child.
Make permanent the $5,000 adoption tax credit and provide $1 billion over five years to increase the credit to $10,000.
Grant a complete tax exemption for prepaid or college tuition savings plans.
Reduced H1B visas from a high of 195,000 per year to 66,000 per year.
Character & Conduct as President
Changed the tone in the White House, restoring HONOR and DIGNITY to the presidency.
Has reintroduced the mention of God and faith into public discourse.
Handled himself with enormous courage, dignity, grace, determination, and leadership in the aftermath of the September 11, 2001 hijackings and anthrax attacks. He almost single-handedly held this country together during those searing days:
Just three days after the attacks, in his address at the National Cathedral, the President reassured the nation when he said: "War has been waged against us by stealth and deceit and murder. This nation is peaceful, but fierce when stirred to anger. This conflict was begun on the timing and terms of others. It will end in a way, and at an hour, of our choosing."
On Friday, September 14, 2001, President Bush visited Ground Zero. Standing on a crushed and burned fire engine atop the smoldering pile at Ground Zero, he put his arm around a retired firefighter who had volunteered to help, and began speaking to the crowd. Rescue workers shouted that they could not hear him. Someone handed him a small American flag and bullhorn. The President spontaneously shouted: "I can hear you. The rest of the world hears you. And the people who knocked these buildings down will hear all of us soon." The crowd roared with cheers and chants of "USA! USA! USA!" Then he raised that American flag and rallied a nation:
Education & Employment Training
Signed the No Child Left Behind Act, delivering the most dramatic education reforms in a generation (challenging the soft bigotry of low expectations). The very liberal California Teachers union is currently running radio ads against the accountability provisions of this Act.
Announced "Jobs for the 21st Century," a comprehensive plan to better prepare workers for jobs in the new millennium by strengthening post-secondary education and job training, and by improving high school education.
Is working to provide vouchers to low-income students in persistently failing schools to help with costs of attending private schools. (Blocked in the Senate.)
Requires annual reading and math tests in grades three through eight.
Requires states to participate in the National Assessment of Education Progress, or an equivalent program, to establish a national benchmark for academic performance.
Requires school-by-school accountability report cards.
Established a $2.4 billion fund to help states implement teacher accountability systems.
Increased funding for the Troops-to-Teachers program, which recruits former military personnel to to become teachers.
Environment & Energy
Killed the Kyoto Global Warming Treaty.
Submitted a comprehensive Energy Plan (awaits Congressional action). The plan works to develop cleaner technology, produce more natural gas here at home, make America less dependent on foreign sources of energy, improve national grid, etc.
Established a $10 million grant program to promote private conservation initiatives.
Significantly eased field-testing controls of genetically engineered crops.
Changed parts of the Forestry Management Act to allow necessary cleanup of the national forests in order to reduce fire danger.
Part of national forests cleanup: Restricted judicial challenges (based on the Endangered Species Act and other challenges), and removed the need for an Environmental Impact Statement before removing fuels/logging to reduce fire danger.
Killed Clinton's CO2 rules that were choking off all of the electricity surplus to California.
Provided matching grants for state programs that help private landowners protect rare species.
Defense & Foreign Policy
Successfully executed two wars in the aftermath of 9/11/01: Afghanistan and Iraq. 50 million people who had lived under tyrannical regimes now live in freedom.
Saddam Hussein is now in prison. His two murderous sons are dead. All but a handful of the regime's senior members were killed or captured.
Leader by leader and member by member, al Qaida is being hunted down in dozens of countries around the world. Of the senior al Qaida leaders, operational managers, and key facilitators the U.S. Government has been tracking, nearly two-thirds have been taken into custody or killed. The detentions or deaths of senior al Qaida leaders, including Khalid Shaykh Muhammad, the mastermind of 9/11, and Muhammad Atef, Osama bin Laden's second-in-command until his death in late 2001, have been important in the War on Terror.
Disarmed Libya of its chemical, nuclear and biological WMD's without bribes or bloodshed.
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What does the Chinese have to do with his statement?
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Continues to execute the War On Terror, getting worldwide cooperation to track funds/terrorists. Has cut off much of the terrorists' funding, and captured or killed many key leaders of the al Qaeda network.
Initiated a comprehensive review of our military, which was completed just prior to 9/11/01, and which accurately reported that ASYMMETRICAL WARFARE capabilities were critical in the 21st Century.
Killed the old US/Soviet Union ABM Treaty that was preventing the U.S. from deploying our ABM defenses.
Has been one of the strongest, if not THE strongest friend Israel has ever hand in the U.S. presidency.
Part of the coalition for an Israeli/Palestinian "Roadmap to Peace," along with Great Britain, Russia and the EU.
Pushed through THREE raises for our military. Increased military pay by more than $1 billion a year.
Signed the LARGEST nuclear arms reduction in world history with Russia.
Started withdrawing our troops from Bosnia, and has announced withdrawal of our troops from Germany and the Korean DMZ.
Prohibited putting U.S. troops under U.N. command.
Paid back UN dues only in return for reforms and reduction of U.S. share of the costs.
Earmarked at least 20 percent of the Defense procurement budget for next-generation weaponry.
Increased defense research and development spending by at least $20 billion from fiscal 2002 to 2006.
Ordered a comprehensive review of military weapons and strategy.
Ordered a review of overseas deployments.
Ordered renovation of military housing. The military has already upgraded about 10 percent of its inventory and expects to modernize 76,000 additional homes this year.
Is working to tighten restrictions on military-technology exports.
Brought back our EP-3 intel plane and crew from China without any bribes or bloodshed.
Globalization & Internationalism
Challenged the United Nations to live up to their responsibilities and not become another League of Nations (in other words, showed the UN to be completely irrelevant).
Killed U.S. involvement in the International Criminal Court.
Told the United Nations we weren't interested in their plans for gun control (i.e., the International Ban on Small Arms Trafficking Treaty).*
The only President since the founding of the UN to essentially tell that organization it is irrelevant. He said: "The conduct of the Iraqi regime is a threat to the authority of the United Nations, and a threat to peace. Iraq has answered a decade of UN demands with a decade of defiance. All the world now faces a test, and the United Nations a difficult and defining moment. Are Security Council resolutions to be honored and enforced, or cast aside without consequence? Will the United Nations serve the purpose of its founding, or will it be irrelevant?" We all know the outcome and the answer.
Told the Congress and the world, "America will never seek a permission slip to defend the security of our country."
Government Reform
Improved government efficiency by putting hundreds of thousands of jobs put up for bid. This weakens public-sector unions and cuts undeserved pay raises.
Initiated review of all federal agencies with the goal of eliminating federal jobs (completed September 2003) in an effort to reduce the size of the federal government while increasing private sector jobs.
Led the most extensive reorganization the Federal bureaucracy in over 50 years: After 9/11, condensed 20+ overlapping agencies and their intelligence sectors into one agency, the Department of Homeland Security.*
Ordered each agency to draft a five-year plan to restructure itself, with fewer managers.
Converted federal service contracts to performance-based contracts wherever possible so that the contractor has measurable performance goals.
Health
Strengthen the National Health Service Corps to put more physicians in the neediest areas, and make its scholarship funds tax-free.
Double the research budget of the National Institutes of Health.
Signed Medicare Reform, which includes:
A 10-year privatization option.
Prescription drug benefits: Prior to this reform, Medicare paid for extended hospital stays for ulcer surgery, for example, at a cost of about $28,000 per patient. Yet Medicare would not pay for the drugs that eliminate the cause of most ulcers, drugs that cost about $500 a year. Now, drug coverage under Medicare will allow seniors to replace more expensive surgeries and hospitalizations with less expensive prescription medicine.
More health care choices: As President Bush stated, "
when seniors have the ability to make choices, health care plans within Medicare will have to compete for their business by offering higher quality service [at lower cost]. For the seniors of America, more choices and more control will mean better health care. These are the kinds of health care options we give to the members of Congress and federal employees. What's good for members of Congress is also good for seniors.
New Health Savings Accounts: Effective January 1, 2004, Americans can set aside up to $4,500 every year, tax free, to save for medical expenses. Depending on your tax bracket, that means you'll save between 10 to 35 percent on any costs covered by money in your account. Every year, the money not spent would stay in the account and gain interest tax-free, just like an IRA. These accounts will be good for small business owners, and employees. More businesses can focus on covering workers for major medical problems, such as hospitalization for an injury or illness. At the same time, employees and their families will use these accounts to cover doctors visits, or lab tests, or other smaller costs. Some employers will contribute to employee health accounts. This will help more American families get the health care they need at the price they can afford.
Homeland Security, Border Enforcement & Immigration
*See Government Reform above. Under President Bush's leadership, America has made an unprecedented commitment to homeland security.
Has CONSTRUCTION in process on the first 10 ABM silos in Alaska so that America will have a defense against North Korean nukes. Has ordered national and theater ballistic missile defenses to be deployed by 2004.
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Announced a 9.7% increase in government-wide homeland security funding in his FY 2005 budget, nearly tripling the FY 2001 levels (excluding the Department of Defense and Project BioShield).
Before DHS was created, there were inspectors from three different agencies of the Federal Government and Border Patrol officers protecting our borders. Through DHS, U.S. Customs and Border Protection (CBP) now consolidates all border activities into a single agency to create "one face at the border." This not only better secures the borders of the United States, but it also eliminates many of the inefficiencies that occurred under the old system. With over 18,000 CBP inspectors and 11,000 Border Patrol agents, CBP has 29,000 uniformed officers on our borders.
The Border Patrol is continuing installation of monitoring devices along the borders to detect illegal activity.
Launched Operation Tarmac to investigate businesses and workers in the secure areas of domestic airports and ensure immigration law compliance. Since 9/11, DHS has audited 3,640 businesses, examined 259,037 employee records, arrested 1,030 unauthorized workers, and participated in the criminal indictment of 774 individuals.
Since September 11, 2001, the Coast Guard has conducted more than 124,000 port security patrols, 13,000 air patrols, boarded more than 92,000 vessels, interdicted over 14,000 individuals attempting to enter the United States illegally, and created and maintained more than 90 Maritime Security Zones.
Announced the Student and Exchange Visitor Information System (SEVIS), an internet-based system that is improving America's ability to track and monitor foreign students and exchange visitors. Over 870,000 students are registered in SEVIS. Of 285 completed field investigations, 71 aliens were arrested.
This week, the US-VISIT program began to digitally collect biometric identifiers to record the entry and exit of aliens who travel into the U.S on a visa. Together with the standard information, this new program will confirm compliance with visa and immigration policies.
Eliminated INS bureaucratic redundancies and lack of accountability.
Split the Immigration and Naturalization Service into two agencies: one to protect the border and interior, the other to deal with naturalization.
Signed the workplace verification bill to prevent hiring of illegal aliens.
Established a six-month deadline for processing immigration applications.
Information regarding nearly 100% of all containerized cargo is carefully screened by DHS before it arrives in the United States. Higher risk shipments are physically inspected for terrorist weapons and contraband prior to being released from the port of entry. Advanced technologies are being deployed to identify warning signs of chemical, biological, or radiological attacks. Since September 11, 2001, hundreds of thousands of first responders across America have been trained to recognize and respond to the effects of a WMD attack.
Judiciary & Tort Reform
Is urging federal liability reform to eliminate frivolous lawsuits.
Killed the liberal ABA's unconstitutional role in vetting federal judges. The Senate is supposed to advise and consent, not the ABA.
Is nominating strong, conservative judges to the judiciary.
Supports class action reform bill which limits lawyer fees so that more settlement money goes to victims.
Politics
His leadership resulted in Republican gains in the House and Senate, solidifying Republican control of both houses of Congress and the presidency.
Signed an EO enforcing the Supreme Court's Beck decision regarding union dues being used for political campaigns against individual's wishes.
Second Amendment
Ordered Attorney General Ashcroft to formally notify the Supreme Court that the OFFICIAL U.S. government position on the 2nd Amendment is that it supports INDIVIDUAL rights to own firearms, and is NOT a Leftist-imagined "collective" right.
Signed TWO bills into law that arm our pilots with handguns in the cockpit.
Currently pushing for full immunity from lawsuits for our national gun manufacturers.
*See Globalization & Internationalism.
Traditional Values, Compassion & Volunteerism
Endorses and promotes "The Responsibility Era." President Bush often speaks of the necessity of personal responsibility and civic volunteerism. He said, "In a compassionate society, people respect one another and take responsibility for the decisions they make in life. My hope is to change the culture from one that has said, if it feels good, do it; if you've got a problem, blame somebody else to one in which every single American understands that he or she is responsible for the decisions that you make; you're responsible for loving your children with all your heart and all your soul; you're responsible for being involved with the quality of the education of your children; you're responsible for making sure the community in which you live is safe; you're responsible for loving your neighbor, just like you would like to be loved yourself."
Started the USA Freedom Corps, the most comprehensive clearinghouse of volunteer opportunities ever offered. For the first time in history, Americans can enter geographic information about where they want to get involved, such as state or zip code, as well as areas of interest ranging from education to the environment, and they can access volunteer opportunities offered by more than 50,000 organizations across the country and around the world.
Established the The White House Office and the Centers for the Faith-Based and Community Initiative located in seven Federal agencies. The faith-based initiative supports the essential work of these important organizations. The goal is to make sure that grassroots leaders can compete on an equal footing for federal dollars, receive greater private support, and face fewer bureaucratic barriers. Work focuses on at-risk youth, ex-offenders, the homeless and hungry, substance abusers, those with HIV/AIDS, and welfare-to-work families.
The White House released a guidebook fully describing the Administration's belief that faith-based groups have a Constitutionally-protected right to maintain their religious identity through hiring even when Federal funds are involved.
Issued an EO implementing the Supreme Court's Olmstead ruling, which requires moving disabled people from institutions to community-based facilities when possible.
Increased funding for low-interest loan programs to help people with disabilities purchase devices to assist them.
Revised the Department of Housing and Urban Development's Section 8 rent subsidies to disabled people, permitting them to use up to a year's worth of vouchers to finance down payments on homes. HUD has started pilot programs in 11 states.
Committed US funds to purchase medicine for millions of men, women and children now suffering with AIDS in Africa.
Heeding the words of our own Declaration of Independence, the president laid out the non-negotiable demands of human dignity for all people everywhere. On January 29, 2002, he said, "No nation owns these aspirations, and no nation is exempt from them. We have no intention of imposing our culture. But America will always stand firm for the non-negotiable demands of human dignity." As stated by the President, they are a virtual manifesto of conservative principles:
Equal Justice
Freedom of Speech
Limited Government Power
Private Property Rights
Religious Tolerance
Respect for Women
Rule of Law
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And this thread is outta the gate :) lol
Steve did you write 4 pages in 4 minutes or did you just cut and paste?
Come on now, I want to hear what YOU think he has done right.
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see rule # 4
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He said more Americans die outside the USA.
Since that is an incomplete comparison, you are faced with filling in the blanks.
More Americans than who(m)? Chinese? Obviously that is false. The number of Americans who die outside the national borders should be less than the deaths in all but small nations, nations who's population is less than the number of Americans abroad. China, being the most populous nation, is a safe bet to have more of it's population dieing outside the national borders of the USA than Americans dieing abroad.
Obviously, as vastly more Americans exist inside the national borders, and many of them drive drunk while shooting, we would have to have a horrible disaster involving more than 100,000 expatriot deaths in order to come close to having the case where my first post, I would think that more Amercans die inside the USA than outside... I mean it just stands to reason.
be a fallacy.
Now that I have explained the joke, I am sure it is extremely funny.
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Originally posted by Steve
see rule # 4
LoL are you serious? You cant post 1 positive thing bush has done without getting moderated? Cause that sounds like BS to me. Sounds more like you have someone else doing your thinking for you.
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Holden
More americans have died abroad after Bush than before Bush. That is how i read his post and i cant see any other way to possibly read it. ;)
Maybe Bug can say if this is what he was referring to or not.
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Originally posted by Nilsen
Holden
More americans have died abroad after Bush than before Bush. That is how i read his post and i cant see any other way to possibly read it. ;)
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That's because you filled in the blanks... probably correctly, but the two other ways of reading it are perfectly valid without Bug's clarification. A lawyer would rip you apart on cross exam if you were as vague as Bug's statement.
I still say more Americans die in the USA than abroad. Before or after Bush.you do realize this is a joke don't you?
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I'm just too tired to play wordgames or spot jokes ;) Take things way to serious.
Been up almost all night with a mate who has some problems.
Just ignore me today :D
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The Daily Show's material has improved.
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Here is my list of just a few things (wink wink) that he has done in office that I support 100%.
Signed two income tax cuts, one of which was the largest dollar-value tax cut in world history.
Turned around an inherited economy that was in recession, and deeply shocked as a result of the 9/11 attacks.
Increased small business incentives to expand and to hire new people.
Killed Clinton's "ergonomic" rules that OSHA was about to implement; rules would have shut down every home business in America.
Passed tough new laws to hold corporate criminals to account as a result of corporate scandals.
Reduced taxes on dividends and capital gains.
Reduced and is working to ultimately eliminate the estate tax for family farms and ranches.
Provided $20 million to states to help people with disabilities work from home.
Created a fund to encourage technologies that help the disabled.
Increased the annual contribution limit on Education IRA's from $500 to $2,000 per child.
Grant a complete tax exemption for prepaid or college tuition savings plans.
Signed the No Child Left Behind Act
Announced "Jobs for the 21st Century," a comprehensive plan to better prepare workers for jobs in the new millennium by strengthening post-secondary education and job training, and by improving high school education.
Signed a bill that requires annual reading and math tests in grades three through eight and requires states to participate in the National Assessment of Education Progress, or an equivalent program, to establish a national benchmark for academic performance.
Increased funding for the Troops-to-Teachers program, which recruits former military personnel to become teachers.
Killed the Kyoto Global Warming Treaty.
Changed parts of the Forestry Management Act to allow necessary cleanup of the national forests in order to reduce fire danger.
Provided matching grants for state programs that help private landowners protect rare species.
Saddam Hussein is now in prison. His two murderous sons are dead. All but a handful of the regime's senior members were killed or captured.
Leader by leader and member by member, al Qaeda is being hunted down in dozens of countries around the world. Of the senior al Qaeda leaders, operational managers, and key facilitators the U.S. Government has been tracking, nearly two-thirds have been taken into custody or killed. The detentions or deaths of senior al Qaeda leaders, including Khalid Shaykh Muhammad, the mastermind of 9/11, and Muhammad Atef, Osama bin Laden's second-in-command until his death in late 2001, have been important in the War on Terror.
Killed the old US/Soviet Union ABM Treaty that was preventing the U.S. from deploying our ABM defenses.
Pushed through THREE raises for our military. Increased military pay by more than $1 billion a year.
Signed the LARGEST nuclear arms reduction in world history with Russia.
Started withdrawing our troops from Bosnia, and has announced withdrawal of our troops from Germany and the Korean DMZ.
Prohibited putting U.S. troops under U.N. command.
Increased defense research and development spending by at least $20 billion from fiscal 2002 to 2006.
Ordered a comprehensive review of military weapons and strategy.
Ordered renovation of military housing. The military has already upgraded about 10 percent of its inventory and expects to modernize 76,000 additional homes this year.
Brought back our EP-3 intel plane and crew from China without any bribes or bloodshed.
Challenged the United Nations to live up to their responsibilities and not become another League of Nations (in other words, showed the UN to be completely irrelevant).
Killed U.S. involvement in the International Criminal Court.
Told the United Nations we weren't interested in their plans for gun control (i.e., the International Ban on Small Arms Trafficking Treaty).
The only President since the founding of the UN to essentially tell that organization it is irrelevant. He said: "The conduct of the Iraqi regime is a threat to the authority of the United Nations, and a threat to peace. Iraq has answered a decade of UN demands with a decade of defiance. All the world now faces a test, and the United Nations a difficult and defining moment. Are Security Council resolutions to be honored and enforced, or cast aside without consequence? Will the United Nations serve the purpose of its founding, or will it be irrelevant?" We all know the outcome and the answer.
Killed the liberal ABA's unconstitutional role in vetting federal judges. The Senate is supposed to advise and consent, not the ABA.
Is nominating strong, conservative judges to the judiciary.
Supports class action reform bill which limits lawyer fees so that more settlement money goes to victims.
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offcourse i meant it the way nilsen explained it to me.
very obvious i thought.
i guess its eurologic
:rofl
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Dont forget:
In the last election prevented a traitor from being elected to the Presidency.
Allowed a ridiculously flawed "assault weapons bill" to die.
Did not allow the USA to be blackmailed by N. Korea.
dago
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Originally posted by Nilsen
Holden
More americans have died abroad after Bush than before Bush. That is how i read his post and i cant see any other way to possibly read it. ;)
Maybe Bug can say if this is what he was referring to or not.
Dunno bout that. Quite a few more died under Roosevelt and Truman back in the 40s (405,399 )
Truman and Ike in the 50s (54,246 )
Often wonder how those numbers would go over today if those conflicts had happened now instead of then.
Sushi and Weis Beer anyone?
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Marriage is love between two human beings who wish to be acknowledged by the state/law that they are one with eachother and care and work for eachothers safety and life...
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Originally posted by Hawklore
Marriage is love between two human beings who wish to be acknowledged by the state/law that they are one with eachother and care and work for eachothers safety and life...
Between a HUSBAND and a WIFE. Otherwise known as a MAN and a WOMAN.
Been that way for a couple thousand years now.
Such domestic agreements between members of the same sex should be allowed but under a different name
Garriage works
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Marriage has been deemed that man and women only because the majority of the society did that..
Many were gay but married men or women as not to arouse any unwanted intrest from the church or authorities that refused people to allow their feelings to be expressed, opressed for thousands of years the human being is now able to express it's love for whomever they wish, and are being threatend by Christian and other religious extremists to not be allowed to express their love and wisdom with eachother or others.
Marriage:
a close and intimate union;
the act of marrying; the nuptial ceremony
two people who are married to each other
and then the pressure of society...
state of being husband and wife
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Originally posted by Hawklore
Marriage has been deemed that man and women only because the majority of the society did that..
Still is the majority of society.
Gays are still but a very small minority of society.
although Bi-sexuality among young women seems to be an "in" fad lately
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Originally posted by DREDIOCK
Still is the majority of society.
Gays are still but a very small minority of society.
although Bi-sexuality among young women seems to be an "in" fad lately
I ain't got a problem with bi-sexual women.. :aok :lol
I'm just saying, gay's have been supressed from society, and again are trying to be pushed farther down the food chain, sorta speak.
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Originally posted by Hangtime
The Daily Show's material has improved.
Winner! :aok
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Originally posted by Hawklore
I ain't got a problem with bi-sexual women.. :aok :lol
I'm just saying, gay's have been supressed from society, and again are trying to be pushed farther down the food chain, sorta speak.
Oh me neither. As usual I was born during the wrong time period in thi9s case by about 20 years,to be able to reap the rewards of this particular fad LOL
I dont know if they are being pushed down the chain.
Gays are probably accepted more now then they have been since the time of the ancient greeks
I dont think most people care if they have such a domestic agreement.
Its the word "marriage" people have a problem with.
If they just wanted to call it something else such as I mentioned "Garriage" But had the same rights as traditional unions. Then other then some teasing and joking about it I dont think many people would so much as bat an eyelash about it.
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has continued the death spiral of the left and their buds the dems in politcal US
has restored honor & integrity to the Capital of the US and the position of POTUS
and what steve/rip have already stated
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Originally posted by Eagler
has continued the death spiral of the left and their buds the dems in politcal US
has restored honor & integrity to the Capital of the US and the position of POTUS
and what steve/rip have already stated
Politicians (either party)
Honor & Integrity all in the same conversation?
I've yet to see a politician (either party) worthy of having the discription of either applied to them.
Kinda like Peanut butter and sardines in the same sandwich.
Or a 5th of Jack Daniels and cheesecake
It just doesnt go LOL
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His Oil Stock increased in worth!
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Originally posted by Swager
His Oil Stock increased in worth!
and so has mine :p
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Steve Wrote -
Turned around an inherited economy that was in recession, and deeply shocked as a result of the 9/11 attacks.
Ripsnort wrote - Turned around an inherited economy that was in recession, and deeply shocked as a result of the 9/11 attacks.
It's obvious that the thing Bush has done most right of all is indoctrinate the faithful and provide cut and paste opportunities.
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Originally posted by Eagler
has continued the death spiral of the left and their buds the dems in politcal US
has restored honor & integrity to the Capital of the US and the position of POTUS
and what steve/rip have already stated
I will agree with you about the dems. They weren't terrible but there leadership is horrendous. As for what steve said, I'd rather hear a personal view than a cut and paste. not that they are wrong or even incorrect but I wanted to see what you guys actually knew and thought he did right. Not just what google gave you.
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Originally posted by midnight Target
Steve Wrote -
Ripsnort wrote -
It's obvious that the thing Bush has done most right of all is indoctrinate the faithful and provide cut and paste opportunities.
yeah that was exactly what I didn't want. I wanted to see what people actually "Thought" instead of what is fed to them. oh well..
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Hmmm what he's done right.... Nothing negative...... Got it!
He switched from Mr. Salty to Rold Gold.
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Originally posted by midnight Target
Steve Wrote -
Ripsnort wrote -
It's obvious that the thing Bush has done most right of all is indoctrinate the faithful and provide cut and paste opportunities.
Clap Clap !!!!
:rofl
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Originally posted by Holden McGroin
A cubic metric s***load of Chinese die outside the US every day.
LOLOL, that's a unit of measure I've not seen on the conversion charts.:lol
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Funked hit on the important ones for me. Bout better than I could expect given the way things were going before.
I am pleased.
Plus... MT's wife doesn't like him so he's gotta be doing good things for me.
lazs
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Originally posted by Raider179
yeah that was exactly what I didn't want. I wanted to see what people actually "Thought" instead of what is fed to them. oh well..
Raider, we both quoted a source that we agreed with all of the things he has done in office. What am I suppose to do, make crap up? . I've watched him perform his job, agreed with what he has done. Again, that is what my "thought" is. It wasn't fed to me, I read about it, and its nice for a website to compile everything he has done in the first 4 years. Its good for the country, good for you and I.
Now, if you can't handle his successfulness, then start a new post. You asked what Bush did right, we responded.
Its funny, how you, Midnight choose to attack the poster, but not the issues listed. Things that make a psychologist go "Hmmmmm"....
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Wheres the 4 pages of what he's done wrong? Anyone?
Thanks for posting Steve, I forgetten over the years, alot of that stuff.
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Originally posted by Raider179
yeah that was exactly what I didn't want. I wanted to see what people actually "Thought" instead of what is fed to them. oh well..
Oh, c'mon Raider. I see this thread as an attempt to cut through the weekly Bush-bashing rhetoric so as to give the man his due. The poster even admitted to being a regular contibuter to the former. We all know what the nay-sayers think...no secret there. This thread in no way signifies a mind-numbed robot mentality.
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Originally posted by slimm50
Oh, c'mon Raider. I see this thread as an attempt to cut through the weekly Bush-bashing rhetoric so as to give the man his due. The poster even admitted to being a regular contibuter to the former. We all know what the nay-sayers think...no secret there. This thread in no way signifies a mind-numbed robot mentality.
I failed to see where he said "I wanted to see what people
actually "Thought" instead of what is fed to them. "
Did you see that text in his topic or post?
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Originally posted by Ripsnort
Here is my list of just a few things (wink wink) that he has done in office that I support 100%.
Signed two income tax cuts, one of which was the largest dollar-value tax cut in world history.
For every $100 you got back in tax cuts, $40 was borrowed from foreigners, $20 was borrowed from Americans, and $40 was taken from Social Security.
Turned around an inherited economy that was in recession, and deeply shocked as a result of the 9/11 attacks.
OK, then we need to credit Clinton with the 90's boom.. deal?
Killed Clinton's "ergonomic" rules that OSHA was about to implement; rules would have shut down every home business in America.
"The Occupation Safety and Health Administration had estimated that the new rules would have generated benefits of $9.1 billion a year for each of its first 10 years, and would have prevented 460,000 musculoskelatal disorders a year. It said employers pay $15 billion to $18 billion a year in workers' compensation costs as a result of such disorders. " - Who exactly is Bush looking out for here?
Passed tough new laws to hold corporate criminals to account as a result of corporate scandals.
Translation... His buddies gat caught with their hand in the cookie jar. So he decided to get behind buying a lid.
Reduced taxes on dividends and capital gains.
Thus providing even more windfall profits to the richest Americans.
Reduced and is working to ultimately eliminate the estate tax for family farms and ranches.
No such thing exists. The Democrats offered a 10 million dollar cap on the estate tax, they Reps turned it down. Now who again is Bush protecting here?
Provided $20 million to states to help people with disabilities work from home.
Created a fund to encourage technologies that help the disabled.
From the Horses a.. er Mouth "We will provide tax incentives to encourage employers to provide such equipment. And we will protect home offices from needless OSHA regulations. "
LOL
Signed the No Child Left Behind Act
Then failed to fund it.
enough?
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Originally posted by midnight Target
For every $100 you got back in tax cuts, $40 was borrowed from foreigners, $20 was borrowed from Americans, and $40 was taken from Social Security.
BS. Source please (please something other than the DNC website)
"The Occupation Safety and Health Administration had estimated that the new rules would have generated benefits of $9.1 billion a year for each of its first 10 years, and would have prevented 460,000 musculoskelatal disorders a year. It said employers pay $15 billion to $18 billion a year in workers' compensation costs as a result of such disorders. " - Who exactly is Bush looking out for here?
Sounds like welfare to me!
Translation... His buddies gat caught with their hand in the cookie jar. So he decided to get behind buying a lid.
Could be, but you have to admit it was a good law.
Thus providing even more windfall profits to the richest Americans.
Sure, why not? They pay 95% of the taxes.
No such thing exists. The Democrats offered a 10 million dollar cap on the estate tax, they Reps turned it down. Now who again is Bush protecting here?
Excuse me? http://invest-faq.com/articles/tax-estate-gift.html
From the Horses a.. er Mouth "We will provide tax incentives to encourage employers to provide such equipment. And we will protect home offices from needless OSHA regulations. "
My employer offers such equipment for me. Does yours? Oh thats right, you're not a virtual employee. :)
Then failed to fund it.
No, it was over-funded as a raw bill. They gave the amount they found necessary to fund it. The teachers unions are the ones screaming thats its underfunded. Now do the math, are the teachers unions pro-dem or pro-repub?
enough? [/B]
Enough embellishment from you? Yes.
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Originally posted by Ripsnort
I failed to see where he said "I wanted to see what people
actually "Thought" instead of what is fed to them. "
Did you see that text in his topic or post?
Rip, I misspoke. Instead of saying "This thread in no way signifies...", I should have said "Rip's post in no way signifies a mind-numbed..." Woulda made more sense, I think?
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FWIW,
It shouldn't matter if some cut and paste their answers as long as that is what they agree with. After all it is now what they believe.
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Originally posted by Ripsnort
Raider, we both quoted a source that we agreed with all of the things he has done in office. What am I suppose to do, make crap up? . I've watched him perform his job, agreed with what he has done. Again, that is what my "thought" is. It wasn't fed to me, I read about it, and its nice for a website to compile everything he has done in the first 4 years. Its good for the country, good for you and I.
Now, if you can't handle his successfulness, then start a new post. You asked what Bush did right, we responded.
Its funny, how you, Midnight choose to attack the poster, but not the issues listed. Things that make a psychologist go "Hmmmmm"....
So you are gonna tell me that you not only understand each and everyone of those issues but agree with all of them?
What are these then without google please?
Reversed Clinton's move to strike Reagan's anti-abortion Mexico Policy...
Increased small business incentives to expand and to hire new people.
What incentives did he give them?
Killed Clinton's "ergonomic" rules that OSHA was about to implement; rules would have shut down every home business in America.
Plz explain I have no idea what this is...Home businesses seemed fine to me while Clinton was in office.
Here is one that is just not true.
Increased funding for the Troops-to-Teachers program, which recruits former military personnel to to become teachers.
Troops to teachers budget
http://www.ed.gov/about/overview/budget/budget06/06action.pdf
2004 - $14,912 2005- $14,793 2006 Presidential Request - $14,793
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Originally posted by Ripsnort
Raider, we both quoted a source that we agreed with all of the things he has done in office. What am I suppose to do, make crap up?
Perhaps you could show me where you or he "quoted a source". Most certainly you did not quote anything. You did however steal someone else's work and present it as your own without even acknowledging it's someone else's.
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Originally posted by Ripsnort
I failed to see where he said "I wanted to see what people
actually "Thought" instead of what is fed to them. "
Did you see that text in his topic or post?
Nope you didnt, because I didnt see 4 pages of cut and paste coming or I would have asked. Thought it wouldnt need to be said but thats what I get for thinking. Maybe even a paragraph or two might not have been such a big deal, but 4 pages, mostly loaded with junk about honor and integrity. 1 line would have been suffiecient for about 2 pages of that stuff.
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Originally posted by Ripsnort
Enough embellishment from you? Yes.
You make this too easy, but I gotta... In order to lose the "family farm" to taxes you gotta be really stupid. In fact NO ONE has ever lost a family farm to the estate tax. From the web site that YOU provided.
.............the unified credit amount for tax year 2004 is $1,500,000. But given the annual gift tax exclusion amount of $11,000 (increased in 2002 from 10,000 in prior years), the total amount that a person can effectively transfer to another individual without triggering taxes is much larger.
Here is what you Rip & Pasted... "Reduced and is working to ultimately eliminate the estate tax for family farms and ranches. "
Now the Estate tax has absolutely NO affect on little family farms and ranches. It has a huge affect on the Walton family. Do ya really think the best Bush has done is protect the billionaires from those pesky taxes?
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Originally posted by midnight Target
Steve Wrote -
Ripsnort wrote -
It's obvious that the thing Bush has done most right of all is indoctrinate the faithful and provide cut and paste opportunities.
Not to hijack Radiers threat, but I have to respond to this.
Conservatives do not use fear as a political tool. That is the common weapon of the Leftist/Liberals.
I.E.
Republicans will:
Take away your Social Security.
Burn Black Churches.
Reinstitute segragation.
Invade your bedroom.
Take away your civil rights.
That's a short example, I really don't have time to list more but I could if I wanted to.
We won't even talk about how the Left has taken character assasination to an art form.
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Umm how about Who Cares? Estate taxes are just a BS way for the feds to get their hands into the property tax cookie jar anyway. Who cares if it only benefits rich people if they do away with it or amend it? If it wasnt hurting the little guy to start with, then IT DOESNT MATTER either way does it? Geeze you guys are almost as bad as the numb-from-the-neck-up zombies on TV and radio. BOTH sides will spin it to sound good or bad, just to suit their own agenda. Neither side really gives a darn about it. Somebody tries to start a positive thread for once and it devolves into a slapping and scratching contest.
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Originally posted by Clifra Jones
Not to hijack Radiers threat, but I have to respond to this.
Conservatives do not use fear as a political tool. That is the common weapon of the Leftist/Liberals.
I.E.
Republicans will:
Take away your Social Security.
Burn Black Churches.
Reinstitute segragation.
Invade your bedroom.
Take away your civil rights.
That's a short example, I really don't have time to list more but I could if I wanted to.
We won't even talk about how the Left has taken character assasination to an art form.
And the ironic post of the day winner is............:cool:
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Passed tough new laws to hold corporate criminals to account as a result of corporate scandals.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
quote:
Translation... His buddies gat caught with their hand in the cookie jar. So he decided to get behind buying a lid.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I could have sworn there was a different president around for 8 years prior to the fall. If your going to give him credit for the 90's boom give him credit for the 90's crooks too , Deal?
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Reduced taxes on dividends and capital gains.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
quote:
Thus providing even more windfall profits to the richest Americans.
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do You keep your money in a cookie jar? A ton of people invest now days and the majority of them are not rich.
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Something else that kills me too. And the people here are as bad as anywhere else. Our symbol as a country is the Eagle. And a beautiful bird it is. You use "Left wing" and "Right wing" to describe people at opposite ends of the political spectrum. Guess what? Our Eagle doesnt fly unless it has TWO wings. This country has ALWAYS, from the moment of its conception during the turbulent 1700s, been a balance of liberal idealism mixed with conservative planning. Thats what brought us into being, thats what has kept us alive for over 200 years. Thats what is going to KEEP us going, is our ability to adapt to an everchanging world while retaining the basic core of our identity. And that identity will ALWAYS be a compromise between the two "wings".
Get over yourselves already.
Rant mode off.
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If we were all in the center there'd be no wings at all...wouldn't the Eagle plummet to Earth and make a big splat?
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It'd be a non-flying bird then, and not have its head high in the sky.
-SW
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Tear the analogy apart all you want. I've never seen one yet that was perfect.
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Originally posted by midnight Target
You make this too easy, but I gotta... In order to lose the "family farm" to taxes you gotta be really stupid. In fact NO ONE has ever lost a family farm to the estate tax. From the web site that YOU provided.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
With hand in the air.... um ... My wife's grandfather died this last year. In doing so the "Death Tax" insured that my wife's mother had to sell two, thats count 'em 2, ranches. All this after my grandfather-in-law's grandfather sold a large portion of HIS land to the glorious state of California to create a small town of 2500 called Wofford Heights of which the town is named after him. The tax called for over $3 million. His ranch never made that much in all the time that my wife's family owned it. It was a large ranch but it was stilled considered a "small business" while he was alive. In the last ten years of his life the ranch barely broke even each year.
Needless to say the ranch had to be sold to pay the "death tax". Costing my Mother-in-law her 127 year old "family farm" and her inheritence that she had been counting on to take care of her as she ages (now 67). So kudos to Mr. President kill that sucker before anyone else gets screwed over by this Liberal Tax law created to get every last penny from the dead. One more for the road, eh?
Please don't say "no one has ever lost a family farm" because I am sure my mother-in-law isn't alone!:(
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Originally posted by Raider179
So you are gonna tell me that you not only understand each and everyone of those issues but agree with all of them?
Some of these I even posted about over the last 4 years on this BBS. I listed only the ones I agreed with.
Increased small business incentives to expand and to hire new people.
What incentives did he give them?
Here are the incentives:
http://www.gazette.net/business/practical/
Killed Clinton's "ergonomic" rules that OSHA was about to implement; rules would have shut down every home business in America.
Plz explain I have no idea what this is...Home businesses seemed fine to me while Clinton was in office.
In Clintons last days in office, he signed a bill that allowed OSHA to issued a Final Rule that implemented a program called Final Ergonomics Program Standard. With this new standard, employers were required to educate employees about common musculoskeletal disorders. If the MSDs were determined to have occurred in the workplace, employers were required to implement a comprehensive ergonomics program. The new rules were extensive and detailed, including nearly 700 pages of ergonomics standards. The projected cost of compliance for businesses was projected to be between $4.5 billion and$125.6 billion annually! These regulations have been part of a decades long battle in the political arena, although Clinton did a drive-by his last 4 days in office and forced it through. It was pure unadulterated repayment to the labor unions for their support by the Clinton administration rather than a thoughtful response to repetitive-stress injuries. These new rules most likely would have pushed yet MORE manufacturing jobs offshore because of the expense associated with the new compliance. the new rules would have paid an employee 90% of their lost pay instead of the two-thirds pay that currently is on the books. I agree with this. If you don't, fine. Keep voting.
Here is one that is just not true.
Increased funding for the Troops-to-Teachers program, which recruits former military personnel to to become teachers.
Troops to teachers budget
http://www.ed.gov/about/overview/budget/budget06/06action.pdf
2004 - $14,912 2005- $14,793 2006 Presidential Request - $14,793
Ahhh, that MILLION, not THOUSAND sir. Do you realize that this was only $3,000,000 a year when Bush took office? We went from from $3 million to $30 million !! Do your research.
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Originally posted by AWkrull
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
With hand in the air.... um ... My wife's grandfather died this last year. In doing so the "Death Tax" insured that my wife's mother had to sell two, thats count 'em 2, ranches. All this after my grandfather-in-law's grandfather sold a large portion of HIS land to the glorious state of California to create a small town of 2500 called Wofford Heights of which the town is named after him. The tax called for over $3 million. His ranch never made that much in all the time that my wife's family owned it. It was a large ranch but it was stilled considered a "small business" while he was alive. In the last ten years of his life the ranch barely broke even each year.
Needless to say the ranch had to be sold to pay the "death tax". Costing my Mother-in-law her 127 year old "family farm" and her inheritence that she had been counting on to take care of her as she ages (now 67). So kudos to Mr. President kill that sucker before anyone else gets screwed over by this Liberal Tax law created to get every last penny from the dead. One more for the road, eh?
Please don't say "no one has ever lost a family farm" because I am sure my mother-in-law isn't alone!:(
OK, one!
:cool:
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So MT.... why should the government get any of the money that was earned by the deceased and allready had taxes paid on?
Maybe we should tax personal inury money too? How bout air? (we allready tax food and water).
I guess it doesn't matter tho.... so long as you get those mean old rich guys huh?
lazs
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Originally posted by Raider179
Since I have posted a lot of Anti-bush threads, here is my pro-bush thread.
1)Economy is doing better.
2)No further terrorist attacks since 9/11.
Feel free to add to this, but lets keep the negative stuff in another thread. Just want to see what the positives are.
One more question for our dear Raider. You asked us to add to this thread, yet you said to keep the negative stuff in another thread. Yet, you can't even abide by your own rules. Isn't that just like the democratic party? "I can do what I want, but you have to do what I say!" :rofl
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Hi Hawklore,
Originally posted by Hawklore
Marriage is love between two human beings who wish to be acknowledged by the state/law that they are one with eachother and care and work for eachothers safety and life...
I hope you'll pardon me for asking but according to who?
Not to rain on the language parade, but assuming that this was posted in response to the DOMA related material above, homosexual relationships tend to be non-monogamous and last less than three years, so the "one with each other" recognition needs to be essentially redefined as "wish to have a special non-monogamous relationship of indefinite duration accorded the same legal status as 'marriage' " Also, since when does love legally enter into the definition of marriage? A man man love a woman other than his wife, but that does not legally affect his relationship with the now unloved woman. Also, what kind of "love test" is to be administered before we grant the marriage certificate?
Once we've essentially made every possible human relationship into "marriage" what's the point of continuing it? The relationship will have legally slipped into the waters of absurdity. ("Hello, this is my sheep Dolly, and my friend Bert. As you know, we love one and another and were married last week")
- SEAGOON
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homosexual relationships tend to be non-monogamous and last less than three years
Hate to rain on your parade but so do heterosexual relationships. I know many more people who end up cheating on their spouse then don't anymore.
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OK, here is the best thing Bush did IMHO...
He was great, and I mean that, after the 9-11 attacks. His manner and presence went a long way towards setting a tone of courage and healing for the country.
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Hi Parker,
Originally posted by parker00
Hate to rain on your parade but so do heterosexual relationships. I know many more people who end up cheating on their spouse then don't anymore.
We could go back and forth on anecdotal evidence based on the people we associate with or our own lives all day. (For instance, most of the married couples I know have monogamous relationships, have been or will end up being married for more than a decade and have not physically cheated on their spouse. I myself have been married for 11 years and fall into that category.) But we don't need to do that, there are actually people who make a living compiling statistics about this stuff.
So for instance, a 2001 National Center for Health Statistics study on marriage and divorce statistics reported that 66 percent of first marriages last ten years or longer, with fifty percent lasting twenty years or longer and this data was confirmed by a 2002 U.S. Census Bureau study which reported similar results, with 57.7 percent staying married for twenty years or longer.
Additionally while the stats across the board are trending downward as marriage and societal constraints continue to unravel, the level of monogamy in heterosexual marriage is still around 85% for women and 75% for men. This is contrasted with around 4.5 % for homosexual males (Laumann, The Social Organization of Sexuality, McWhirter and Mattison, The Male Couple: How Relationships Develop) and that data is supported by Homosexual publications and organizations which feel that "monogamy" is an alien and unwelcome concept in the homosexual lifestyle. Put simply, monogamy is something straights are concerned about not gays, therefore it should not be forced to be part of a gay definition of marriage anymore than one man and one woman should be.
Anywho, all of this is piling up so much sand against the tide coming in, eventually we will see homosexual marriage in the USA, probably by means of court dictat, and all the stats or treatises or ethical arguments or popular votes in the world aren't going to stop the Western intelligentsia from making their desires the law of the land. So Parker, regardless of the validity of your arguments, it doesn't take a prophet to forsee that you and Hawk will eventually get what you want.
- SEAGOON
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So as not to sidetrack this thread i will agree that it probably does depend on where you live and who you know. Although i don't agree with the way you pick and choose rights for certain people but that is a topic for another thread.
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Originally posted by Ripsnort
One more question for our dear Raider. You asked us to add to this thread, yet you said to keep the negative stuff in another thread. Yet, you can't even abide by your own rules. Isn't that just like the democratic party? "I can do what I want, but you have to do what I say!" :rofl
Show me the quote where I posted something negative bush did? All I pointed out was something negative steve did which I thought hurt the thread.
But that is fine, and neither of you still "quoted" a source, instead posting it as if it was your own work is reprehensible. But that is fine ignore that along with outdated facts on the Troops-to-teachers program and tell me again how I am listing negatives that bush has done.
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Originally posted by Seagoon
So for instance, a 2001 National Center for Health Statistics study on marriage and divorce statistics reported that 66 percent of first marriages last ten years or longer, with fifty percent lasting twenty years or longer and this data was confirmed by a 2002 U.S. Census Bureau study...
Huh?
Is that it?
Lets say you get married in your twenties. That means that by your thirties you only have a 6 in 10 chance of still being married?
Lets again say that you get married in your twenties. That means that by your forties you only have a 50/50 chance of still being married?
A 50/50 shot at it?
Is this for real?
Assuming you aint lying about it..... then I got one question.
Why the hell are you worrying yourself over gays?
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Hi Nash,
Originally posted by Nash
Huh?
Is that it?
Lets say you get married in your twenties. That means that by your thirties you only have a 6 in 10 chance of still being married?
Lets again say that you get married in your twenties. That means that by your forties you only have a 50/50 chance of still being married?
A 50/50 shot at it?
Is this for real?
Assuming you aint lying about it..... then I got one question.
Why the hell are you worrying yourself over gays?
Yes, sadly that's for real, almost 50% of all the marriages entered into in the USA will end in divorce, and yes I'm worried about that. I wrote in a published essay on the subject quite a while back:
"Even the most cursory examination of the statistics concerning divorce in America reveals figures that are nothing short of staggering. In the 60 years between 1920 and 1980 the divorce rate more than tripled. The United States now has the highest divorce rate in the world and at least half of all U.S. marriages will end in divorce. About half of those divorces will involve children, for a total over one million children experiencing the divorce or separation of their parents yearly.
What these figures should tell us is that America has become what one author has called a "Divorce Culture," and as such we can expect divorce to continue to impact every part of our society, including the church."
But the solution to our problems on this front doesn't lie in further weakening the institution of marriage or making divorce even easier (which will inevitably the result of allowing people who are seldom together for more than even three years to marry), but sadly this isn't an issue that President Bush or DOMA are going to be able to fix by legislation alone. Either we commit to reform as a culture, or I don't seriously expect you'll have much of a society left to reform. No society in history has long survived the kind of disintegration we are enduring, we won't be the first. But hey my job is to call people out of the prevailing culture, I haven't been empowered to fix it.
- SEAGOON
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Originally posted by Seagoon
Hi Nash,
"But the solution to our problems on this front doesn't lie in further weakening the institution of marriage or making divorce even easier..."
- SEAGOON
Of course it doesn't.
But do you really think the solution can be found in attacking something which has nothing to do with these sad statistics?
Let me answer for you: No of course it can't.
So why do you do it?
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Heh... upon a re-read, you can answer my question by just repeating what you already said (..."further weakening").
Duh. My apologies.
I guess I wouldn't be so thick to it if it weren't for my perception that the church exhausts boundless energies protecting the dismal record on the institution of marriage by attacking something that has had absolutely zero effect on said dismal record.
Which you are doing.
Somebody is getting something wrong. Gays aren't your problem.
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So MT.... why should the government get any of the money that was earned by the deceased and allready had taxes paid on?
Answer the question.
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most people would agree that estate taxes should start at a level just above what they would have accumulated in a lifetime to leave their children and..
I would agree with all of them.
lazs
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Originally posted by Steve
Answer the question.
Ask nicely.
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I think I answered it for him.
lazs
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OK,
Estate taxes should be the favorite child of the Republiclowns. I mean, they are all about self reliance and personal responsibilityand getting the Government out of your hair (unless you do something they don't like). So the only income they should be in favor of taxing should be income you didn't really earn. Like inheritance ..you get the picture.
I think $10 million is a fair set-point for the Estate tax. maybe adjusted regularly for inflation.
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Well MT, a limit of inheritance may be fair if you look at it from the receiver's POV.
If someone has worked to build a business and wants to pass it to his son, why should the government put a limit on his generosity to his children?
Why is the government taking his money, which he has already paid taxes on, any more fair than him passing it to whomever he wants?
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Originally posted by midnight Target
OK, one!
:cool:
One? Try thousands over the years. The death tax is the single most prevelant cause of the destruction of the family farm in America.
Dad bearly eaks out a living from the farm but the land is worth $5 million. Dad dies and the wife/kids have to come up with $3.5m for the government. Where do you think these "rich" folk are gonna get that kind of cash? You think a banks gonna give them a $3.5m loan? Nope, sell the farm. Most often to some corporation.
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Originally posted by midnight Target
OK,
Estate taxes should be the favorite child of the Republiclowns. I mean, they are all about self reliance and personal responsibilityand getting the Government out of your hair (unless you do something they don't like). So the only income they should be in favor of taxing should be income you didn't really earn. Like inheritance ..you get the picture.
I think $10 million is a fair set-point for the Estate tax. maybe adjusted regularly for inflation.
The only un-earned income int his world comes either from the lottery of the government (welfare). If you make money on the stock market your EARNED it through your sound investment and intellegence. Just because the money came from Dad or the husband doesn't mean it wasn't earned.
$10m? most family farms are worth 10x that.
You would probably agree with these 2 statements wouldn't you?
A heavy progressive or graduated income tax.
Abolition of all rights of inheritance.
Do you know where this comes from?
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Raider,
Allthough I am usually on the other side of the pollitical scope from you, I do agree with you in this sense. You did start a thread asking for opinion. Not cut and paste opportunities from Pro-Bush sources. My 'thought' is this.....
I was born and raised on the border of Scottsdale and Phoenix, Arizona. Currently serving my time with my employer in Tulsa, Oklahoma but will return to my home in January. Anyway, I have three children. My oldest is 10. She has excelled at every mark in her studies at the public school. When Bush came to office and allowed changes in the private and charter school systems, we were blessed. We found a biblically based Charter school that had an excellent curricullum (<--SP?) and the changes had allowed for us "paycheck to paycheck" type people to put our kids in schools like this. She was really challenged and still excelled as her grades stayed at all "A's". We moved to Oklahoma where she has to go to public schools and her grades are poor because she is bored and unchallenged. Now that we are going back we can fix the problem.
My point is that if Bush hadn't pushed for changes like these to take place we would have a severly bored 10 year old who is failing out of 4th grade.
Oh yeah, the biblically based part of the school is a before and after school thing, not during sanctioned "school hours", it also cost us $200 per year, per child to send them to the biblically based programs. Didn't want to fire up any church/state moderators. They can be vicious. :)
*Edit: I should add that, yes, this is a state government change that obviously hasn't made it to Oklahoma yet. But my point was that Bush made the changes at the Federal level and allowed the individual state choose the option of implementing the plan. :aok
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sooo... MT is for an inheritance tax so long as it (the cutoff point)is somewhere above anything he thinks he will be able to accrue in his lifetime... stick it to those guys who made more than him...
after all... the money the government extorts is spent so wisely and any extra they get will just be put to that much more good use eh?
lazs
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So the only income they should be in favor of taxing should be income you didn't really earn. Like inheritance ..you get the picture.
No, all I get is that you don't have an answer; that you'll bash the administration all day long yet don't have anything to actually offer as a solution to what you feel is being done wrong.
You're simply a malcontent who never got over the fact that the dems lost, they have no political agenda besides redistribution of wealth, and people know it. You get the picture.
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Steve dood... yer babbling again.
I answered the question. Just cause you don't like the answer doesn't mean it doesn't exist grasshopper.
Just because the money came from Dad or the husband doesn't mean it wasn't earned.
Nice try Clifra, but if the money comes from your daddy, YOU didn't earn it. And if it's your husband's money you automatically become the owner. In fact if it is your husband's money it is also your money so no inheritance tax applies.... unless you had some kind of pre-nup.
Now if momma and daddy want the kids to get the 100 million dollar "family ranch" they just need to make them equal partners in the property. Done deal.
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Originally posted by midnight Target
...if the money comes from your daddy, YOU didn't earn it.
The government didn't earn it either.
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Originally posted by Seagoon
Hi Parker,
We could go back and forth on anecdotal evidence based on the people we associate with or our own lives all day. (For instance, most of the married couples I know have monogamous relationships, have been or will end up being married for more than a decade and have not physically cheated on their spouse. I myself have been married for 11 years and fall into that category.) But we don't need to do that, there are actually people who make a living compiling statistics about this stuff.
So for instance, a 2001 National Center for Health Statistics study on marriage and divorce statistics reported that 66 percent of first marriages last ten years or longer, with fifty percent lasting twenty years or longer and this data was confirmed by a 2002 U.S. Census Bureau study which reported similar results, with 57.7 percent staying married for twenty years or longer.
Additionally while the stats across the board are trending downward as marriage and societal constraints continue to unravel, the level of monogamy in heterosexual marriage is still around 85% for women and 75% for men. This is contrasted with around 4.5 % for homosexual males (Laumann, The Social Organization of Sexuality, McWhirter and Mattison, The Male Couple: How Relationships Develop) and that data is supported by Homosexual publications and organizations which feel that "monogamy" is an alien and unwelcome concept in the homosexual lifestyle. Put simply, monogamy is something straights are concerned about not gays, therefore it should not be forced to be part of a gay definition of marriage anymore than one man and one woman should be.
Anywho, all of this is piling up so much sand against the tide coming in, eventually we will see homosexual marriage in the USA, probably by means of court dictat, and all the stats or treatises or ethical arguments or popular votes in the world aren't going to stop the Western intelligentsia from making their desires the law of the land. So Parker, regardless of the validity of your arguments, it doesn't take a prophet to forsee that you and Hawk will eventually get what you want.
- SEAGOON
Per capita divorce rates 1990-2002:
1991, 0.47%
1992, 0.48%
1993, 0.46%
1994, 0.46%
1995, 0.46%
1995, 0.43%
1997, 0.43%,
1998, 0.42%,
1999, 0.41%,
2000, 0.41%,
2001, 0.40%,
2002, 0.38%
http://www.divorcereform.org/rates.html
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but if the money comes from your daddy, YOU didn't earn it
So because parents want to make a better life for their children, the money belongs to the government? Could you 'splain this to me, Mt?
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Originally posted by Silat
Per capita divorce rates 1990-2002:
1991, 0.47%
1992, 0.48%
1993, 0.46%
1994, 0.46%
1995, 0.46%
1995, 0.43%
1997, 0.43%,
1998, 0.42%,
1999, 0.41%,
2000, 0.41%,
2001, 0.40%,
2002, 0.38%
http://www.divorcereform.org/rates.html
Wow, the institute of marriage is alive and well if divorce rates are under 1.0% ;)
Are the above figures during the first year of marriage only?
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I see... if you make your kids equal partners then there is no tax... you favor loopholes.. Those smart enough to evade tax with a loophole are entitled?
Two sets of fathers... one makes his kid an "equal partner" on paper and the other doesn't..
Both die and make a will to leave all their money to their sons... one get's half or more of the money extorted away by the government while the other sneaks by..
Both wanted their child to benifiet neither wanted to have money stolen from their kids by the government..
In the case of the wife.. a wife isn't even a blood relative... yet... you would give her tax free money and not the child who is blood?
No blood relative should have to pay an inheritance tax any more than a wife should.
lazs
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Inheritance taxes, sales taxes, property taxes, airport security taxes, state income taxes, gasoline taxes, tobacco taxes, taxes to finance the Spanish-American War still being collected on telephone charges, luxury taxes, excess profits taxes, capital gains taxes, taxes masquerading as user fees, federal excise taxes...
Good thing there isn't a penny tax on stamps - that would start a revolution... again.
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I'll take Democrat nonsense for one hundred Alex.
Answer:
Originally posted by Rolex
Inheritance taxes, sales taxes, property taxes, airport security taxes, state income taxes, gasoline taxes, tobacco taxes, taxes to finance the Spanish-American War still being collected on telephone charges, luxury taxes, excess profits taxes, capital gains taxes, taxes masquerading as user fees, federal excise taxes...
Good thing there isn't a penny tax on stamps - that would start a revolution... again.
And the question is: What have the tax and spend democrats given us in the last 100 years?
Ding, correct. Select again.
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Originally posted by Dago
I'll take Democrat nonsense for one hundred Alex.
Answer:
And the question is: What have the tax and spend democrats given us in the last 100 years?
Ding, correct. Select again.
Ding?
Try Bzzzt.
Thars a Democratic White House for what.... 12 of the last 40 years?
You guys are laying it on pretty thick.
Running out of shiny objects to point at.
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Originally posted by Silat
Per capita divorce rates 1990-2002:
1991, 0.47%
1992, 0.48%
1993, 0.46%
1994, 0.46%
1995, 0.46%
1995, 0.43%
1997, 0.43%,
1998, 0.42%,
1999, 0.41%,
2000, 0.41%,
2001, 0.40%,
2002, 0.38%
http://www.divorcereform.org/rates.html
Actually the more useful information is at the end of the page:
"The National Center for Health Statistics recently released a report which found that 43
percent of first marriages end in separation or divorce within 15 years. The study is based on
the National Survey of Family Growth, a nationally representative sample of women age 15 to
44 in 1995. Bramlett, Matthew and William Mosher. "First marriage dissolution, divorce, and
remariage: United States," Advance Data From Vital and Health Statistics; No.323. Hyattsville
MD: National Center for Health Statistics: 2 1.
"Data in the Census report were collected from both men and women, age 15 and over, and a
different methodology was used than in the NCHS report.
"About 50% of first marriages for men under age 45 may end in
divorce, and between 44 and 52% of women's first marriages
may end in divorce for these age groups. The likelihood of a divorce
is lowest for men and women age 60, for whom 36 % of men
and 32 percent of women may divorce from their first marriage by
the end of their lives. A similar statistical exercise was performed in
1975 using marital history data from the Current Population Survey
(CPS). Projections based on those data implied that about one-third of
married persons who were 25 to 35 years old in 1975 would end their
first marriage in divorce.
"This cohort of people, who in 1996 were about 45 to 55 years old, had
already exceeded these projections as about 40% of men and
women in these ages had divorced from their first marriage. Current
projections now indicate that the proportion could be as high as
50% for persons now in their early forties."
Marriage as an institution is broken in our society, and our solution seems to be to continue to whack at it with a hammer. Sure, it'll survive.
:rolleyes:
- SEAGOON
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Originally posted by Seagoon
Marriage as an institution is broken in our society, and our solution seems to be to continue to whack at it with a hammer. Sure, it'll survive.
:rolleyes:
- SEAGOON
Ironically, there are people fighting to get married, but they can't.
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You're good, Sand.
I'm about as subtle as a jack hammer.
"Anywho, all of this is piling up so much sand against the tide coming in, eventually we will see homosexual marriage in the USA..." - Seagoon
OMG marriage is in trouble! Frankly, it's a mess! It has nothing to with homos but gawdamn! If THEY start getting into this failed marriage racket who knows HOW much worse these stats are gonna become?!!
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Originally posted by Sandman
Ironically, there are people fighting to get married, but they can't.
Your speaking of the polygamists in Utah aren't you...
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Its not bush that did all of those things, its other people. Bush realy needs to get his head out of his a**.
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Sandy is the anti-Seagoon in terms of politics and length of posts.
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Its not bush that did all of those things, its other people. Bush realy needs to get his head out of his a**.
huh? Shouldn't you be in school or something? Post something w/ substance or go away.
Thars a Democratic White House for what.... 12 of the last 40 years?
Well there was Jimmy Carter and yes, he was a disaster, an embarrassment(and continues to be). If your memory fails you I can give you examples. Then there's Clinton another disaster and embarrassment(he's a fine statesman and does not continue to make an arse of himself like Carter). If your memory fails you, I can give you examples.
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Originally posted by midnight Target
Sandy is the anti-Seagoon in terms of politics and length of posts.
Brevity is key. I find that long posts are more likely to get pulled off on an irrelevant tangent. ;)
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Originally posted by Sandman
Brevity is key. I find that long posts are more likely to get pulled off on an irrelevant tangent. ;)
Plus, who the heck reads those long ones anyway? Can you say boring? Wanna be read, keep it to two paragraphs tops.
:p
- SEAGOON
-
Originally posted by Seagoon
Actually the more useful information is at the end of the page:
"The National Center for Health Statistics recently released a report which found that 43
percent of first marriages end in separation or divorce within 15 years. The study is based on
the National Survey of Family Growth, a nationally representative sample of women age 15 to
44 in 1995. Bramlett, Matthew and William Mosher. "First marriage dissolution, divorce, and
remariage: United States," Advance Data From Vital and Health Statistics; No.323. Hyattsville
MD: National Center for Health Statistics: 2 1.
"Data in the Census report were collected from both men and women, age 15 and over, and a
different methodology was used than in the NCHS report.
"About 50% of first marriages for men under age 45 may end in
divorce, and between 44 and 52% of women's first marriages
may end in divorce for these age groups. The likelihood of a divorce
is lowest for men and women age 60, for whom 36 % of men
and 32 percent of women may divorce from their first marriage by
the end of their lives. A similar statistical exercise was performed in
1975 using marital history data from the Current Population Survey
(CPS). Projections based on those data implied that about one-third of
married persons who were 25 to 35 years old in 1975 would end their
first marriage in divorce.
"This cohort of people, who in 1996 were about 45 to 55 years old, had
already exceeded these projections as about 40% of men and
women in these ages had divorced from their first marriage. Current
projections now indicate that the proportion could be as high as
50% for persons now in their early forties."
Marriage as an institution is broken in our society, and our solution seems to be to continue to whack at it with a hammer. Sure, it'll survive.
:rolleyes:
- SEAGOON
Yeah but you forgot the part where Gay s are the cause of all this divorce.:)
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Those mind control chemicals the goverment puts in the water sure is working on some. :eek: :p
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what about people who have been divorced multiple times... how do the figure into the statistics? Some people have been married half a dozen times. doesn't that kinda tilt the stats?
lazs