Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Nash on August 11, 2005, 08:22:27 PM
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I'm watchin' (jesious, I almost typed 'MTV') CNN, and Paula Zahn has this huge profile on the Simpson sisters, repleat with rumours that Jessica had an affair with Johnny Knox on the set of the Dukes of Hazzard.
During prime time. News.
Is it just me?
Meanwhile, Green Day released the video to their latest single "(Wake Me Up) When September Ends."
Watch it. (http://www.greenday.com/greenday.html)
(link in upper right)
CNN and the Simpson sisters. Or this. I wouldn't call it two worlds colliding as much one world spinning wildly out of orbit while the other, as if composed of some kind of long-twisted memory metal suddenly snapping back into shape.
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Grat album great vid wonder if Green Day are asking a few questions of the current US govt in their own style!
Best Rock/Punk album of the year.
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is that what passes as music these days?
lol lol lol
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Best Rock/Punk album of the year.
It's called 'pop' and it's garbage...
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You don't get it Eagler.
Whether or not you think it "passes for music" is irrelevant.
Er... unless there's some unbeknownst to us evidence why you - Eagler - are someone to be taken seriously when it comes to music.
Tell me if I'm wrong, but I imagine you keep a vigil over your treasured recored collection (yes, vinyl) lest your wife disturb the squeaky-tight alphabetical order of it by placing Boston between Patsy Cline and Frank Sinatra.
In other words, who should give a flying **** what you think "passes as music these days"?
lol lol lol away and away and away and away and away and away but away it will not go.
The video wasn't made for you and it wasn't made for me. It was made for our sons and our daughters; and the last time I checked - they couldn't give a rats arse what WE thought about their musical tastes.
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Interesting video, so many there are very young.
To them.
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Interesting video, I will not be surpised if this video and song ends up being a big hit in the States...
However it's sad they are capitalizing on the situation... I would perfer they donate the money they make from this song to the wounded veterans in this conflict...
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However it's sad they are capitalizing on the situation... I would perfer they donate the money they make from this song to the wounded veterans in this conflict...
That's one take.
Donate the profits to, I dunno, fund artificial limbs.
The other is to (and in the recording biz - it all comes out of the band's record sales) blow the bank. They paid (easily) a quarter of a million dollars for that vid. They coulda spent a quarter of that for some schmalzty video and spent the rest on hookers and blow.
Look it.
Who watches MTV? 18-25.
Who does this video target? 18-25.
Who does the military recruit? 18-25.
Ya know, if ya did the math.... this video vs. artificial limbs may end up being a bargain.
All at Green Day's personal expense. They should be given the damned medal of Freedom.
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Originally posted by Wotan
It's called 'pop' and it's garbage...
What's wrong with Garbage?
(http://www.udel.edu/BCC/images/past/garbage.jpg)
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Originally posted by Wotan
It's called 'pop' and it's garbage...
bingo! Was about to say something myself... punk.. oh please.
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FWIW, Billy Joe Armstrong is 33.
It's not punk (if it ever was), but I think he is getting better with age.
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Man...
Skydancer says "Best Rock/Punk album of the year" and all of a sudden:
(http://gowest.homestead.com/files/richard_hypnotize.gif)
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The 80's was a great big musical mistake. :D
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Heh. :)
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Do I score any points if I freely admit that I had to do some googling to figure out who the hell "Go West" is?
I'll also freely admit and forfeit a few points because some of the songs sounded familiar.... but I consider myself a victim. ;)
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Well sure - I'll throw you a few points for that. What the hell.
But uh.... I got that image by googling "hypmotized" and had no idea it was from some 80's band.
How's that for teamwork? :D
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I used to hate Greenday, but this album is good. The fact that Eagler hates it is a good sign. But the alternative to this video was hookers and booze, and they still chose to make the video? That's just wrong.
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It's been fascinating, this war.
(what a thing to say)
But there it is.
Not so much for the war itself, because - hell - there's been no suprise there, but for the reaction to it.
I felt emboldened by Angelina Jolie going into Iraq in the midst of the chaos, sporting a burka, and asking for an end.
Who here could forget the Rich Kids for Peace, violently overthrowing the faculty of Wharton School, demanding an end to limited investment opportunities - demanding, dammit - their fair share. There were many rolls of toilet paper being thrown. One gentleman was forced to drink copiuous amounts of water. There was hazing. I believe a librarian was bruised in the fracas. The National Guard responded, via Blueberry from Iraq.
And who could forget the sad sight of the Bush daughters, weeping upon finding out that their flat feet exempted them from military service in Iraq. "Servicing is what we know" said they, despondant.
Then there were the marches. Thousands upon thousands stormed the Capital demanding.... oh wait... that also didn't happen.
In fact, there's been nothing. Nada. Whatsoever.
Iraq war supporters (you know who you are), I know it, this kills you more than the deaths of your own brethren. Because finally, maybe, here, there is nobody waiting in the wings to step out from behind the curtain except the mirror image of you.
And normal folks? They're starting to just not buy you anymore.
There is nobody for you to lynch for your mistake, and nobody you can foist off as accountable for these incredible failures.
No Jane this time.
In other news, the Army has raised the maximum age for recruits for the National Guard and the Army Reserve by five years, from the current 34 years old to 39.
In other news, nobody on the AH BBS is biting.
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Originally posted by soda72
However it's sad they are capitalizing on the situation...
It's shrewd marketing really. Cash in on the Deth to Boosh craze before it ends. Look at John Stewart. Perfect product packaged for the perfect market at the perfect time. Sharp businessmen.
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I actually like that song, I liked the video too.
I don't really see that video as being critical of the war and/or the government... more like it is showing the consequences of people's choices. That guy chose to go into the army, it isn't like we have a draft.
"Holiday" on the other hand (another good song) is critical of the government.
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Originally posted by FUNKED1
It's shrewd marketing really. Cash in on the Deth to Boosh craze before it ends.
Yeah, I really liked Green Day when they sang about poppies and kittens.
It disapoints me to see that all of a sudden they turn to singing about the government just to make a buck.
Where'd that come from?
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I'd imagine they do whatever Warner tells them to do.
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You think?
I'd love to know how you come by that "thinking."
I heard that yer a real wiz bang mover shaker insider in the music biz.
Enlighten me, yer Funkiness. (this oughtta be good).
(or do you just "imagine"... as if that were something meaningful? )
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Wow a bit hostile. I think we have a fanboi. See ya. :aok
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Hostile?
Mate - I'm goofin' on ya.
You don't know what yer talkin' about, but that aint stoppin' ya, and I'm just saying so.
You only showed up for two posts and yer trying to say that Green Day is basically the Spice Girls figuring out that if they could make a buck, only then will they sing about the Government?
Yeah right.
Then you say, basically, that Warner tells them what to write.
Nobody tells anybody what to write. Either Warner will pick up the album and throw money behind it, or they'll shelve it. That is their two choices. It's not complicated....
.... unless you're prone to conspiracy theories or a rabid Bush lover prone to making up things about things you don't know anything about..... for... whatever reason you do that for.
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Why would you think the mega-media-tainment conglomerates are less cunning and ruthless than any other huge evil corporation? They are interested in what sells. Retarded faux news sells ads to middle aged couch potatoes. And naive anti-Boosh pop sells to pimply faced skateboarders. It's not a conspiracy theory, it's how the market works. I guarantee you there are major-label headhunters out there looking for punky pop bands with anti-Boosh lyrics. But not lyrics that take it too far - still have to be able to move product at Walmart. Right alongside the new Tony Hawk game.
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Well that aint how the record business works. They are so wholey corrupt, but it doesn't have anything to do with politics.
Movies are outside of its touch for now.
TV? Well that' screwed. PBS is getting messed with.
I have to ask...
When you use a phrase like this:
"mega-media-tainment conglomerates"
Are you smiling? Are you frowning? Is there an indifference?
What is going through your mind when you type that?
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Indifference. Never been a "big label" "top 40" guy.
And I'm not saying that these companies are using music or TV as a vehicle for their own political agenda. Political "flavoring" is just another ingredient they are using to hit target markets and move units.
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Green day is good.
Used to listen to them in the 90's and i have seen them live. My music taste has changed abit so im not a huge fan anymore but they are still in the "good" category. :)
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Originally posted by FUNKED1
Indifference.
Indifference.
Really.
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Well of those choices it was the closest. Indifferent as in "They suck bellybutton but I avoid doing business with them so their incredible suckage doesn't matter that much to me."
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Great song...
did you notice who plays the soldier in the video? ;)
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GI Joe?
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umm.. no.
try again :D
(ill give you a clue.. he was a dancer)
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Michael Jackson?
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Yes Neilson.
it was Michael Jackson.
:lol
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hmm Fred Astaire?
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answer: -
here (http://www.billyelliot.com)
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Kinda scary that you knew that Furball ;)
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i heard about it on the radio :D
never actually seen the film, although it is supposed to be very good.
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Billy Elliot ? thats not ballet
Ballet is lots of fit young ladies carrying no excess weight prancing around to some classical music.
Worth it just for the fit young ladies!!!:D
If green Day are relegated to POP because they got into the charts does that mean the Clash or the sex pistols are POP too?
:rolleyes:
Cmon if that giutar based aggression is POP what the hell does that make the likes Of brittany Spears!?
I'm way too old to give a damn about the is it "cool" factor if its good its good and the new green day album is very good.
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It hasn't been all that interesting nash... your reaction to the whole war has been predictable in the extreme for instance.
lazs
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Originally posted by Nash
It disapoints me to see that all of a sudden they turn to singing about the government just to make a buck.
Green Day sold out to become "rock stars" long before making this song..... They had fans that scorned them for doing so, but in the end(with a big check in hand) they were willing to live with that.
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And who could forget the sad sight of the Bush daughters, weeping upon finding out that their flat feet exempted them from military service in Iraq. "Servicing is what we know" said they, despondant.
Yeah. I though that during Bush's last big speech where he talked about stepping up and making sacrifices. I would expect to see his daughters in uniform, even safely serving in some backwater CONUS posting, about the same time I receive that unexpected $1 million check in the mail from Bill Gates.
An interesting video. Not overtly anti-Iraq war, just a statement, IMO, that you go to war and people die. The war had better be worth it, you shouldn't do it lightly, people don't come home or come home with pieces missing, etc. Things that a lot of people, IMO tend to overlook because their tulips and those of their immediate families are not on the line anymore. Statistics and images on the tube, a football game without the commercials or level of coverage, viewership and commentary.
IMO Iraq is shaping up not to be the next Vietnam, but the next Korea. Forgotten War II. No big demonstrations -- too many people supported it in the first place to admit they might be wrong and WTF are you going to do about it now the we are where we are. No direct impact for the vast majority of Americans, not even much indirect impact for the middle classes and above (they gave up the idea of "service" to the country in the ashes of Vietnam). No draft to worry about. Lots of little ribbons a few "thanks for your service" comments, then on with regular life.
Charon
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Originally posted by Nash
I felt emboldened by Angelina Jolie going into Iraq in the midst of the chaos, sporting a burka, and asking for an end.
:lol
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My mom was into country music, she always listened to Hank Williams." -- Billie Joe Armstrong
Hank's influence shows itself yet again.
(http://www.cdshakedown.com/11_2001/timeless_cover.jpg)
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Yeah, that song pretty much sucks arse. The video is an attempt to create a meaning from the stupid lyrics.
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Yep, the video sucks...especially when weighed against hookers and booze. Here are some real videos (http://music.yahoo.com/ar-267189-videos--Twisted-Sister)! *Sorry, but ya gotta use IE, and the quality sucks...but then, so does Yahoo for not supporting Firefox.
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Holden - I got through Dylan's 'Chronicles' recently and it had several anecdotes about he and Hank's relationship. I know you're a big fan of his - thought you might be interested.
Regarding the Green Day suckage factor - I personally don't like them much.... but then, that isn't even close to being the point.
They used to come to a local club here in the early 90's. This was about the time of 'Kerplunk' and they were very much on our radar back then. They had no money, but were touring their tulips off.... a lot. And by touring, I mean yer basic Dodge van with a riser in the back and a $5 per diem. This went on for years.
One night, Billy Joe made a plea from the stage; "Hey - can we crash at someone's place tonight"? Kinda sad, but we used to do the same thing when out on the road. I have an appreciation for showers that since, has never left me. Same goes with couches, a TV, a fridge, and real beds. This chick Shelley who I was kinda dating and who used to photograph all the unheard of bands that used to pass through said "sure." She had a POS house, but she was like the only one we knew with an actual house. And we partied our arses off that night with this POS band called Green Day, like we would do a few more times before 'Dookie' blew up in '94.
I saw them a few months ago, in a Stadium... and it was awful. It wasn't a show, it was a show, and their songs took very much a back seat to showmanship. I didn't expect much, and I was given the tickets, and I really haven't followed them since the early nineties. That being said... and stripping away any context - 'American Idiot' is very much a great album by a band that only these last couple of years has reached the top of their game.
Anyways, this is all a kind of a meaningless anecdote, and it really is beside the point, but I say it just as a point of reference.
Because yesterday, they released the video that I linked to. Today it is #1 on MTV.
Yesterday, I mentioned that the maximum age for Reserve recruits has been upped to 39. Two weeks ago, the Defense Department quietly asked the Congress to up the maximum age for military recruits for all branches of the service to 42.
Everybody knows that the enlistment numbers are so far south that the downward spiral has started to spin counter-clockwise. The response from our culture - be it the arts, the media, what have you - has been either MIA, or has come up so weak that the only thing we can point to is the Dixie Chicks for Chrissakes.
Then you have this video.
Corny? Yes.... a little. But as effective as a mallet to the head. And usurping 50 cent's (or whoever else's) domination of the charts and telling the kids that hey - you might want to think twice.
Support for the war has plummeted into the thirties. Bush is under virtual siege at his ranch because he just cannot face a lone mother and her greiving. It is undeniably sad.
It really is the summer of our discontent.
Lazs - you call my lack of support for this circus "predictable."
Thank you. No, really.
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Well honestly Nash... what do you think he can say to her that will make it all better anyway?
I'm pretty sure a "Your son was a brave man who died serving his country" wouldn't cut it.
If she is against the war anyway, he is just going to spend an uncomfortable hour getting yelled at. I can blame him for a lot of stuff, but not talking to that woman isn't one of em.
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Any real man would have been out there post-haste.
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Did someone hit your knee with a hammer, or does it always jerk like that?
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You asked me a question, I answered, and now you call it a knee-jerk reaction for answering you?
Remind me not to answer you if it ever comes up again.
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Greenday is good but I must say their latest material has burned out for me rather quickly and it wasn't heavily overplayed in my market. Still, they have really matured nicely as musicians and songwriters. As performers they are typically average. Which is to say they are good performers just not great.
Lately I have been listening to a fine outfit from Chicago called "Wilco", no relation to roger, these guys have some skillz and a lot of diverse influences are present in their music. I hear some country central (which is more evolved than country western style or nashville style country). I also hear some late 60s acid early 70s post acid tuff......
some pop.....some southern ballads stuff. Truly wierd blend but I have really enjoyed their music.
http://www.wilcoworld.net/
Also, saw a concert in the park last night of a national touring outfit from down south somewhere called Satisfaction, a tribute show to the Rolling Stones. Had a really great time listnening to some Stones classics played very very nicely. The guys that were playing the roles of Jagger/Richards had those styles and mannerisms down tight. Almost freaky to see. Check em out if you ever get the chance.
http://rollingstoneshow.com/
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Nash, I actually like you...
But you didn't even answer the question I asked. I asked you what he could say to this lady that would suddenly "make it all right". I didn't ask you if Bush was a girlyman or not.
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Originally posted by Yeager
Lately I have been listening to a fine outfit from Chicago called "Wilco"...
:rofl
That is freakin' hilarious! "a fine outfit...." hah.
Yeager listening to Wilco. Wow. Trust me Yeager, Tweedy has some choice words for you.
However - GREAT band. Okay - you bumped up a notch on the respect-o-meter.
Urchin... Lets turn over a new leaf. I'll try again. Your question is "What can Bush say?"
My answer is "Act like a normal human being. Say whatever it is you think." It aint rocket science.
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the thing for me nash is musical content. What tweedy says is background noise to me. Its how he sings...the inflection, the tone, the heart of his soul....he may be singing about his Frosted Flakes cereal in the morning and I dont care.... as long as he sings with his heart and soul I will dig it.
And know this, I have heard your stuff and it didnt move me.
I remember thinking as a producer/director I make make sense out of you :) but we are worlds apart and I work for a living.
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The guy yer talking about? That voice in your headphones? That "heart of his soul?"
Jeff.
I hung out with him a lot. Gotten high with him tons of times.
He can't stand you, Yeager - take my word for it.
I work for a living too. (whatever you meant by that).
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I think yeager is looking at it logicaly and nash is all weepy emotional about it... Yeager is listening to what the guy has to offer... his talent as a musican... nash is listening to him as some great political philosopher and all knowing prophet..
It is the problem with the hollywood crowd too... watch my movies .... believe what I say..
It can work for authors... some are great writers with really silly political or social views... that doesn't mean you can't appreciate the way they write.
I can't believe nash doesn't see this... no... I can believe it.
lazs
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Wait a minute.... You don't know who we're discussing, you assume incorrectly that his music is political (it aint), and based on that you launch into this big theory about how it relates to "Hollywood" types and their reaction to the arts in general and then say that you can't (or can) believe that I don't see it?
That was something else, lazs....
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you are correct... I don't know what they are talking about but I consider all opinions that deal with the social to be political. You are the one who claimed that these people wouldn't like yeager...
My point is valid... Yeager doesn't care if they would like him or not or even if they have different social views than he does... he isn't listening to them for their airhead views. and...
I have heard greenday and they are political and they are idiots.. that doesn't make their music any better or worse. The entire point is not about content of the performers beliefs but about that fact that a person can enjoy (or not) based on the talent .
you are the one who is "something else"
lazs
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Well ya know what... I regret what I said about Wilco and Yeager. There was something particularly funny to me about that revelation - but it doesn't mean I should have said anything.
I'm still trying to get my head around it - because it never really occured to me - or I haven't toyed with the idea - that pretty much everything that people like you watches, reads, or listens to... was created by people who you simply can't tolerate. It's obviously something you've grow accustomed to dealing with (call it a coping strategy - lest you spend your days in a dark room with the curtains drawn), as you're saying here. It's new to me and again, I regret my reaction to it.
I just don't know what that would be like.
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Ok forget the politics for a moment that new Green day Album is good, if you like loud punk style guitar music. If you like AOR and stuff like the eagles it quite probably does sound like crap to you. To me its a good album and I'm bordering on the old!
Actualy its an interesting thought that my parents generation in their 60s now, go to Rock and Roll reunion weekends and such like.
When I'm that age will my generation be going to Punk reunion weekends? Its an odd thought lots of over 60's with ( in my case as its going fast! ) stick on Mohecans and safety pinned trousers! Amusing to think of realy! :lol :lol
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nash... No more than me trying to wrap my mind around the fact that there are people out there who can't enjoy music for the music...or movies for the movie... that you have to agree with the artists ideas on the world.
I admit that some artists are so far out there that I can't even get behind their talent because their message is so bizzare but usually... I just figure that they are joung or inexperianced and.... combined with talent and... yep... inteligence... they get over exuberant... I kinda feel sorry for em that they follow the fads so much and don't think for themselves.
Truth is... I have never seen anyone... artist or otherwise that I agreed 100% with... I don't have to in order to enjoy their talent or company...
you need to lighten up... It isn't that important to be hip and current.
lazs
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It aint something that's bringing me down, nor am I concerned about it. Like I said - it never even occured to me until just now. But it's interesting to think on... which I'm going to do. So if you'll please excuse me.... :)
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seriously... do you think that when people cheer an artist they are cheering his talent or his belief system?
I believe some are cheering the former and some the latter and a few a combination of the two.
I think that my proof would be that when an artist starts believing that it is his political and social beliefs that are making him a star... when he get's more and more outspoken... his popularity often takes a dive. People just don't want to be bothered with all that or... they dissagree with the artist and if their face is rubbed in it enough they just wander off and find someone else less intense or more like themselves.
Sometimes the talent is really marginal and the message really abhorent... take rap for instance... lack of talent combined with abhorent message and of course... tediousness and lack of imagination, make rap not even worth giving a chance. Modern black comedy tends to fall into that group too... Only those who are fervently into the message can stomach the lack of talent..
least... that's how I have allways seen it.
lazs
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Oh Nash... I read in the paper today that Bush has already met with that lady... he met with the lady a little while after her son was killed last year.
He said he didn't want to meet with her again because it was obvious what her views were. That is according to the paper anyway.
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Nash,
I just like music when its good. I like playing music when it makes me feel good. I didn't mean to imply that your music was not good, it was.....I just wasn't moved by it on a musical level (of course it was just one sample). I heard your voice and I know you were saying things but for some reason the words just blew right past me, I was listening to your voice, the quality and way you managed your voice. Its just me and the way I listen to music. I hear tones and rythems, melodies and harmonies but I rarely ever clue in on the words as a matter of dialogue.
Im listening to "Being There" atm and I really like some of that music. The bassist is good, real good what with the way he plys his notes into the music but I wish he would come out a bit more in the mix.
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Fair enough Yeager, and my apologies for saying what I did.
(http://members.shaw.ca/cwharton/pics/1.jpg)
Well, first of all, we'll put together a force structure who meets the threats on the ground.
(http://members.shaw.ca/cwharton/pics/2.jpg)
Lazs, already moving to your oft repeated dislike of rap and "modern black comedy?" That really didn't take long, so I suspect we'll be hearing about your views on guns and European barbarians shortly. You'll understand if I opt out.
(http://members.shaw.ca/cwharton/pics/3.jpg)
And we've got a lot of forces there, ourselves. And as I said yesterday, anybody who wants to harm American troops will be found and brought to justice.
(http://members.shaw.ca/cwharton/pics/4.jpg)
Urchin, I gotta say I'm not too up on the Sheehan story, but I did know about the previous meeting. Apparently she's got a few more questions since then. To me, she's a grieving mother who's a bit presumptuous thinking she can just demand that the President see her, but she's sincere and has obviously struck a nerve with the rest of the country.
(http://members.shaw.ca/cwharton/pics/5.jpg)
There are some who feel like that if they attack us that we may decide to leave prematurely.
(http://members.shaw.ca/cwharton/pics/6.jpg)
It's really not much to me... but I mentioned it in the context of the overall lack of any meaningful public opposition to the war previously, as compared to the recent plummeting of support (38% now), Green Day's video (which you can call anti-recruitment), and then Sheehan's little camping odyssey.
(http://members.shaw.ca/cwharton/pics/7.jpg)
They don't understand what they're talking about, if that's the case.
(http://members.shaw.ca/cwharton/pics/8.jpg)
You're obviously interested in the Sheehan angle, but I really don't know what to say about it. The fact is that Bush could have diffused the situation very early by bringing her in, hearing her out, and seeing her off. But really, Bush's decision making ability has left me continually just so completely.... dumbfounded..... that another spectacle like this becomes less a thing to focus on than just one more example of his utter incompetence.
(http://members.shaw.ca/cwharton/pics/9.jpg)
Let me finish. There are some who feel like -- that the conditions are such that they can attack us there. My answer is, bring them on.
(http://members.shaw.ca/cwharton/pics/91.jpg)
Now watch this drive....
Jerk.
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What is with people typing a response, me responding to it, then deleting their response - forcing me to delete mine?
Stop it!
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I don't disagree with you Nash. I think Bush is a very good man, but a very bad president, if that makes any sense.
And I'm probably falling into blaming the President for stuff that really isn't his fault (gas prices, skyrocketing prices of.. well.. everything), but I can't help myself for doing that. When one party controlled the Congress and the other party the Presidency, you can blame it on "partisanship"... but when one party controls everything you kind of have to wonder if they like the direction the country is going in.
As far as the Sheehan thing, I think she is simply being unrealistic. She is a very unimportant person, the President is a very important person. Her son was a an unimportant person who sacrificed his life for his country. That doesn't make him or his relatives important enough for the President to take time out of his day to talk with them. I'm not saying that is right, I'm simply saying that that is the way it is.
The lady would most likely be in the same situation if anyone else were the President, so I can't really say Bush is any worse than most.
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I appreciate your candor, Urchin.
Me? I've BS'd myself into numerous jobs. You know how it goes. It's summer, you're in highschool, the chicks are fairly demanding, and when it comes to an interview you can pretty much do it all.
But everyone has their limits. Fewer of us know what they are. For Bush to even presume to run for office is as telling about that man's character as his evident ability to do the job. If it weren't for..... hell.... a myriad of things.... that man would be still be stuck bankrupting one business after another.
Yeah... he and I would under any other circumstance probably get along. But now I'd say to him "What the hell were you even thinking?!" It blows my mind why someone like that could even think he had the bwana to run for the President of the United States.
Doofus.
Sheehan - yeah... We see eye to eye on that. She's distraught, and there are many tens of thousands of distraught people right about now. She aint special.
But the optics..... It's become something.
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Nash:
"The Sheehan Family lost our beloved Casey in the Iraq War and we have been silently, respectfully grieving. We do not agree with the political motivations and publicity tactics of Cindy Sheehan. She now appears to be promoting her own personal agenda and notoriety at the the expense of her son’s good name and reputation. The rest of the Sheehan Family supports the troops, our country, and our President, silently, with prayer and respect."
Sincerely,
Casey Sheehan’s grandparents, aunts, uncles and numerous cousins.
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That's the sister of her husband talking.
Her husband, along with the rest of her immediate family, supports her.
Besides.... Tell me Grun.
Do your cousins speak for you?
Do you run your thoughts past your uncles for approval?
No? Then just what in the world did you just type have anything to do with anything?
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pictures are very poor taste nash - very Michael Moore-ish
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Awww......
Poor Eagler - you are seriously gonna lecture me on matters of taste?
Gimme a break.... you prolly still got Royal Blue shag carpet.
Poor taste my ass.
These are the images of the result of the very thing you've been advocating. It's the result of what you've wanted!
You don't like them - then don't look. (gut-check time)
Otherwise - spare me.
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Originally posted by Nash
That's the sister of her husband talking.
Her husband, along with the rest of her immediate family, supports her.
Besides.... Tell me Grun.
Do your cousins speak for you?
Do you run your thoughts past your uncles for approval?
No? Then just what in the world did you just type have anything to do with anything?
In the same vein his mother does not speak for the dead soldier, so she should stop her personal publicity quest.
Do you think she will star in the next Mike Moore movie? On second thought, is there any doubt she will?
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But she is, Grun.
I've already said that it doesn't make much sense to me.
We don't get it. Okay fine. But it's still there despite it. Imagine that.
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So his mother IS speaking for her adult son?
Just like the grandparents are speaking for the publicity seeking mother?
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Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
So his mother IS speaking for her adult son?
Just like the grandparents are speaking for the publicity seeking mother?
No - the mother is speaking of her grief. She hasn't said "My son thinks...."
No. She is just saying what she thinks.
Her extended family is saying, "Well geeze no - we think thissaway...."
They have a right to their opinion as much as she has a right to hers.
But I don't get it, Grun... What of it?
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Originally posted by Nash
What is with people typing a response, me responding to it, then deleting their response - forcing me to delete mine?
Stop it!
Sorry. I typed something stupid and probably non-rules-compliant, thought better of it, didn't see a reply, and deleted it.
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Pics say more than words and those pics say alot.
There enough man killed there.
I hope it stops soon.
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nothing wrong with nash's pictures... I did note tho that he didn't show pics of iraqis wailing over the opened mass graves of the people tortured and slaughtered by the sadman... I noted that there were no mourners waiting at the torture dungeons (real, rip your limbs off torture not flush your bible or pretend to put pigs blood flecks on ya) for news of their families...
very onesided... I belive it is easier to critisize a democratic army or regiem doing their job than to do the same about the suffering of 500,000 people murdered and tortured under the sadman... And.... it goes over better with "artistic" friends.
nash.. I simply think you are a clever person who is easily led by the people around you because you crave their acceptance. I am sorry if that is harsh sounding but I see no evidence that would lead me to think otherwise.
lazs
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No worries Funked (it happened two other times as well). Now that you mention it, my response woulda got me whacked with the mod stick along with ya.
In other news:
The Bush Administration: Holy cow did we ever screw up! (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/08/13/AR2005081300853.html)
The wheels are coming off, but fast.
"What we expected to achieve was never realistic given the timetable or what unfolded on the ground," said a senior official involved in policy since the 2003 invasion. "We are in a process of absorbing the factors of the situation we're in and shedding the unreality that dominated at the beginning."
It makes ya stop and just shake your head. I never understood what these people were thinking. But it's nice to see them finally admit that there's such a thing as a reality out there. Ya can't Intelligently Design a dreamy one on your own terms, at least not all the time.
There is so much in that article that it's hard to even know where to begin.
"Administration officials still emphasize how much they have achieved....".... pointing to an Iraq that can sustain itself, govern itself and defend itself, but are "slowly realizing we will have some form of Islamic republic."
d'Oh!
Well look at that.... That's exactly what ya had BEFORE the invasion!
So the question becomes, what did the deaths of a coupla thousand kids, untold amounts of dead Iraqis, a damaged reputation and billions of dollars get ya?
Squat.
Nice move. :aok
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yep poor taste, no class
you ok Nash? you seem a bit "fired up" lately ?!?!
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well... I guess when the new regiem kills and tortures 500,000 of its citizens you (and the washington post) will be proven right.
I personaly never expected Iraq to be "little America" but if we cut down on the slaughter and allow the people to govern themselves with a chance to vote.... It will be a haven in the middle east... something for others in the region to shoot for.
but then maybe you are right... those people were never worth helping... The sadman wasn't such a bad fellow.
lazs
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Lazs...
You are "sorry if that is harsh sounding?" Please.... point me to some evidence that would lead you to think that I give a damn about what you think of me. It's none of my business.
But it's wildly contradictory, you trying to point out that I crave acceptance on a BBS in a thread where I'm so far a minority that acceptance is pretty much out of the question and always has been. Tell me lazs, how am I being led here? What is my strategy for being accepted here? It doesn't make sense, or.... you're insulting my intelligence.
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Originally posted by Eagler
yep poor taste, no class
you ok Nash? you seem a bit "fired up" lately ?!?!
I'm fine, Eagler, thanks.
I oscillate between biting my tongue and just not being able to. That's all.
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nash... I assume that the BB is a small part of your life. I believe that what you say here is a result of your belief system that is formed by the people around you.
I do not think that you are hypocritical enough to say one thing here and another to the people around you. You have no chioice but to defend what they and you believe.
but.... far from a courageous crusader... a voice in the wilderness....You yourself point out that support is waning... for recruitment at least... I think that and the approval of your peers is what drive you here... and that is probly about normal for most of us. But don't try to make more of it than it really is. I really haven't seen much independant thought from you... you seem entirely predictable no matter how new the subject.
lazs
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Lazs, I don't talk politics with my friends. They couldn't give a damn. Nobody I know does.
So there goes that theory. What else ya got?
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that is beyond silly nash... It is insulting. Unless your friends are total morons (which I doubt).... then you know exactly where their views on all things lie. I can't imgine that you don't pick up on it... unless you are a moron?
you have any more excuses? please... try to be a little more creative and less obvious tho.
lazs
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Okay lazs, the extent of my friends knowledge on stuff like this doesn't go past what the evening news says. Even if they had an opinion on it, which I'm sure they do, I wouldn't care to discuss it with them, and I'm sure the feeling would be mutual. There is way more to life than this.... and we aren't at a loss for other things to talk about.
This insults you? Well, I'm sorry about that.
I'm also getting pretty bored of talking about me. Aren't you?
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so you have no idea of how it would go over with your "friends"if you came out and said that the war was a great idea and that you supported Bush and the war to the fullest extent? No idea how your friends would react?
Like I said... it is insulting that you would suggest such a thing to us... that.... or all your friends are drugged out morons or... you don't know anything about em.
lazs
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Well now you're saying something else.
You gotta remember - I just moved here last year. My old friends are gone. The people I hang out with now are either co-workers or clients. Trust me - we don't talk politics. So to answer your question, if I came out and said what you said, some would probably be for it, and some against. I don't say to them what I'm saying here to win their respect as you imply, and I don't get how this is supposed to be insulting to you.
.... and can this get any more boring?
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Originally posted by Eagler
yep poor taste, no class
you ok Nash? you seem a bit "fired up" lately?!?!
That's interesting coming from the guy who posted a picture of a dead human fetus on this very BB, in this very forum. I guess in some cases, it really does take on to know one.
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OMG
thats my fricking life...
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more like it is showing the consequences of people's choices. That guy chose to go into the army, it isn't like we have a draft.
Yes, but it is the way they showed it.
I served my country, served it proud.
I don't see liberal weenie bands making a video showing the consequence of the V.A. helping me get my house or the fact I graduate in less than a year with a business degree. ( Thank you G.I. Bill )
Lol, I could see greenday's next hit................Tapakeg financing a house with a VA loan.
Anyway, the video had an agenda, plain and simple
Tapakeg
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Where did this "voice in the wilderness" stuff come from? Maybe people are just tired and frustrated of talking about it. And others are too embarrassed to admit their views have changed. It's a hard thing to disagree with a policy that puts those in uniform in coffins and hospitals, and still show respect for those in uniform who believe they are defending their nation.
But, the military is ultimately controlled by civilians who must choose the battles and wars with great reluctance and serious thought.
Come on lazs, you sound like some weaping, liberal, democrat woman getting teary-eyed about the civilians in Iraq under Saddam. Do you seriouly think that anyone here believes that you give a rat's butt about anyone in Iraq? Ha!
I thought a recent Newsweek poll showed that almost 2/3rds of the country now disagrees with this presidents Iraq policy.
It's time to take a fresh look in the mirror and see who's really howling in the wilderness and out of touch with main-stream America.
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Originally posted by tapakeg
Anyway, the video had an agenda, plain and simple
Tapakeg
just like the recruiters have a quota to make right?;)
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Originally posted by Nash
Any real man would have been out there post-haste.
nash before i bash you into the ground. have you ever served?
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The video stinks and the song blows.
The video is insulting. The people that enlist are not just some ignorant fools who are not aware of the dangers.
Ignorant fools like Nash are the one's who don't get it.
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I don't think the video portrays him as being ignorant. Hell, she goes crazy about him joining up.
I think it is very clear that he knows the risks and rewards. And he chose to join despite the risks.
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Originally posted by Urchin
I don't think the video portrays him as being ignorant. Hell, she goes crazy about him joining up.
I think it is very clear that he knows the risks and rewards. And he chose to join despite the risks.
I agree. But the video is portraying him as some kind of idiot for leaving his safe "life" and doing what he thinks is right.
As if what he chose to do is somehow wrong.
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The message I got from the video is that terrorists and fanatics are killing people and only America and the UK are fighting back. Is that Green Day's message?
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Nash, what have you lost or sacrificed in this war? Those images of families grieving should be treated with more respect.
Eagler is right..very Mooreish.
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rolex... I don't get any more weepy about the iraqis killed than the Americans being killed except...
I never like to see people tortured and subjegated.. I like to see those who do these things taken out.. Soldiers are a different matter... soldiers fight... soldiers die. Rather it didn't happen but that is the way it goes.
I have nothing against reexamining our policy over there but.... I was around for the stupid anti war protests about vietnam and seen how they snatched defeat from the jaws of victory tho... don't want a replay. Seems like we are seeing a lot of the same players too.
My point was not that I feel equally bad about iraqis being killed or tortured and their families suffering than I do about American soldiers being killed and watching their families suffering... I was merely pointing out that nash was being one sided and not showing how the sadman was creating the little scenes that nash was so weepy about on a ten times grander scale every day of his brutal rule.
Nash is the one who wants us to be moved by only the deaths of American soldiers and the suffering of their families... it is he who is playing the emotion card in a very one sided manner.
lazs
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"I never like to see people tortured and subjegated"
true that isn't good but is it any better seeing them blown to bits regularly, kidnapped, murdered, stolen from, unable to travel safely, make a living look after their family, go to school, turn the bloody lights on! Cos thats what s going on now!
No one is saying Sadam was an angel but can you honestly tell me the Iraqis are that much better off now! Its Ok I know you will. But I think the news from that country might contradict you.
Anyhow whatever you think Of Green Day they surely got us arguing!!! And I bet thats the desired result:D ;)
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I would rather be afraid of terrorists blowing me up than being kidnapped and tortured by my own government with no say in my destiny...
but then.. that's just me.
lazs