Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: Panzzer on August 12, 2005, 05:06:36 PM
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Since we've got a new wishlist forum, I'll add the Brewster... Please? :)
Finland bought 44 F2A-1 series Brewsters (export version 239), which started arriving in Finland in March 1940, but the Brewsters were too late for the Winter War. During 1941 - 43 the Finnish Air Force achieved 477 victories with the Brewsters with an exchange ratio of 32:1.
If you'd like to know more, please check the earlier thread (http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=52235) on Brewster, the article Brewsters to Finland (http://www.sci.fi/~fta/BWtoFAF1.htm) and the FAF in color (http://www.sci.fi/%7Eambush/faf/fighters.html#ryysteri) site.
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I'd really like this. The Fins used Brewsters that didn't have all the extra armor, so they were more agile than the ones used by the U.S. Navy.
Brewsters, damnit!
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one squadron wiped out on during one flight of Battle of Midway
brewster can wait
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People cite the Fins whenever they say they want the Brewster. Sure the fins got kills in them. Doesn't mean the plane was any good. In fact the plane was OBSOLETE even by P40 standards. I guarantee it would be a hangar queen, nothing more.
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We need this plane and some other early war planes to run early war historic setups.
krusty:
"I guarantee it would be a hangar queen, nothing more."
I believe, that you only fly in the MA?
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Originally posted by ramzey
one squadron wiped out on during one flight of Battle of Midway
brewster can wait
No it cant.
Originally posted by Krusty
People cite the Fins whenever they say they want the Brewster. Sure the fins got kills in them. Doesn't mean the plane was any good. In fact the plane was OBSOLETE even by P40 standards. I guarantee it would be a hangar queen, nothing more.
Brewster was better than its counterparts in fin-rus frontier 41-42.
There is so many finnish AH players that we would see it even in MA.
Ofcourse if we get Brewster, we need also I-16.
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im not againt brewster at all
only one front where this fly show tigers claw was fin-rus
for this one we need more soviet planes first
also
i belive som other types of planes used in finland would be more interested and support o africa scenarios as well
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Originally posted by ramzey
im not againt brewster at all
:aok ;)
for this one we need more soviet planes first
also
Yeah. We need opponents to Brewster.
I-16, I-15 (Tsaikka), Lagg3 and so on...
Maybe we someday see Fokkers, Fiats and Moranes....
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Some pictures of Finnish Brewsters..
(http://hkkk.fi/%7Eyrjola/war/faf/brewster.gif)
Hans Wind in his BW-393 (September 1943).
(http://www.sci.fi/%7Eambush/faf/bw376.jpg)
BW-376, profile by Jouni Rönkkö.
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So what is status of this project?
:furious :huh
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pls dont add the US Navy version of Brewster. It's a flop
And for Finland version... add it :D
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Originally posted by 1K3
pls dont add the US Navy version of Brewster. It's a flop
And for Finland version... add it :D
Add both or neither. If you add the Finnish version it'll be added to scenarios against the Japanese even though it far out performs the Buffaloes they faced and if the USN version is added the Finns will get a crippled version.
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you brought a whole 44?!!?!
OMG WHY ISNT THIS AIRCRAFT IN ACES HIGH?!!??! :furious
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Originally posted by Furball
you brought a whole 44?!!?!
Yes. Actually "bought". ;)
But that was a lot of planes - in Finland, and against the northern Russian border.
OMG WHY ISNT THIS AIRCRAFT IN ACES HIGH?!!??! :furious
Yes, why not???
It's American, after all. ;)
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Originally posted by Krusty
People cite the Fins whenever they say they want the Brewster. Sure the fins got kills in them. Doesn't mean the plane was any good. In fact the plane was OBSOLETE even by P40 standards. I guarantee it would be a hangar queen, nothing more.
I must agree, the kills were probably Ju-52's, quite an easy kill, even for the Brewster (it's armament is quite good though)
During the battle of Holland, the Fokker fighters took out a large number of Ju-52's, making it look like the the fighter scored much better than the 109 of that time!
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Frank would know! He's from wooden shoe land!
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It's a little too early war for me anyway
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People complain NOW about how impossible it is to get kills with the P40B, and the guns are the same (if not better on the P40B). Imagine a P40... Only slower... Weaker.. Less manuverable (in general, despite the Brewster out turning the p40B in flat turns, the p40B is more versatile).
Yeah... That's gonna be a REAL success in AH.
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The only thing it WOULD be able to beat, is the P-40 itself!
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Bah.. That P40 is over modeled in its zoom capabilities (but then *I* think most planes in AH are), so it would beat the Brewster hands-down.
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I don't think HTC is even *considering* adding new (ahum..old) planes, Im sure they're busy tuning up the "old" ones
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Especially since FinRus isn't the most well known, most popular, or heck not even the largest campaign of the war -- no TOD value for a long time.
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I thought that was BoB or the Pacific?
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No, FinRus wasn't BOB. It was later, in '41/42 I believe. They had 109Fs at the time I think.
Brewsters played little (if any) part in the Pacific. I can't see them needed in any PAC TODs. I doubt we'll ever have PAC TODs early enough to warrant the Brewster anyways.
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Originally posted by Krusty
No, FinRus wasn't BOB. It was later, in '41/42 I believe. They had 109Fs at the time I think.
No no, I meant that I thought that the BoB or Pacific battle was the largest campaign of the war
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Oh, I wasn't trying to figure out the largest, I was just saying that FinRus wasn't even close.
For TOD my best bets, on plane availability and how much work it would take:
8th AF bombing (they're doing this now)
late 44'+ PAC war (we already have Ki84 and N1k2, and P47N and 3 P28s, and the B24, etc etc)
'43 RAF vs LW over France and Holland (maybe revolving around bombing air fields?)
Africa '42/'43 (we have C202/205, we'd need a few more italian birds) -- include tanks in this?
I can't see ANY early war TODs because there are just too many problems with the planes, or with the planesets.
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Originally posted by Krusty
Oh, I wasn't trying to figure out the largest, I was just saying that FinRus wasn't even close.
My fault, read it wrong
My expertice doesn't reach beyond the H2H though, I know nothing of MA, TOD or CT...
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"People complain NOW about how impossible it is to get kills with the P40B, and the guns are the same (if not better on the P40B). Imagine a P40... Only slower... Weaker.. Less manuverable (in general, despite the Brewster out turning the p40B in flat turns, the p40B is more versatile). "
I don't know where people have got the idea that P40 was "agile" or maneuverable? I have read it to be described more like a "flying brick".
Brewy is maybe slower but not weaker and definitely not less maneuverable. It also had 3 .50Cal and one .30 and later 4 .50Cals.
The entire batch of Brewster model 239 was sold to Finland because it did not fulfill the specifications of US Navy (They chose F4F?). It was considerably lighter than the model 339 which fared very badly in combat. 339 had more power, but the airframe became not that much faster and it became considerably less maneuverable (+armour) and against experienced and better Japanese opposition it was a death trap.
We have used the FM2 as a replacement for Brewy in CT and it is very capable fighter there. Considering a little slower but more maneuverable fighter it would be deadly in correct timeframe.
BTW there are many other planes in hangar which are not used in MA but this game is not all about MA after all.
:rolleyes:
-C+
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I thought the FM2 actually was a 'later' war fighter? How can you compare it to the Brewster?
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I just don't think anyone would use the Brewster B-239 (Buffalo) with it's Goon engines and general obselesense. I mean God, you might as well get the Gloster Gladiator while you're at it - a biplane (for Chrissakes!), also used in Finland. I know the Buffalo had a high kill ratio in Finland, but against the late war models favoured in the MA with 20mm cannon and high performance engines it would end up in the hanger.
Having said all that, it would be nice to have another plane to choose. The more the merrier. Only, I can think of a lot more that would be far more popular and effective.
Just my opinion.
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Compare FM2 to Brewster? U mean F4F should be used? Maybe it is F4F. I'm not that sure which we have there...
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edit: To KD303: "but this game is not all about MA after all."
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Being picky, I feel compelled to post some little correction...
Frank.
I must agree, the kills were probably Ju-52's...
The war was between Finland and Russia, the Germans were actually allied with the finnish... and, yes, probably they killed a lot of bigger and less combat capable planes, but they do shot down even a lot of fighters.... and they had pilot with impressive scores, like Cpt. Hans "Hasse" Wind, 75 victories on a Brewster.... I suggest you take a look at this site, virtualpilots.fi (http://www.virtualpilots.fi/en), amongst the other things you will find Wind' lectures on fighter combat, really interesting reading, I could use it in IL2 FB, flying as a finnish pilot...
Krusty
No, FinRus wasn't BOB. It was later, in '41/42 I believe. They had 109Fs at the time I think.
The "Continuation war" as the finnish call it, was fought between 1941 and 1944, and, AFAIK, the FAF never had the 'Fs, only Gustavs (but I may be wrong on this one).
For TOD my best bets, on plane availability and how much work it would take: [...]
Africa '42/'43 (we have C202/205, we'd need a few more italian birds) -- include tanks in this?
If you want to include the 205, you have to play even the invasion of Sicily in July 1943, since the Veltro first saw action during those days and never was in combat in Africa.... and yes, we definitely need more italian planes! :D
Charge
We have used the FM2 as a replacement for Brewy in CT...
Frank is right, the FM2 is a later version of the Wildcat, based on the XF4F-8, with lighter airframe and more powerful engine; the Grumman project was developed and produced by General motors and first entered service in late 1943, IIRC. So, it's not a good choice for a Brewster replacement... :p
Finally, if I can put my own 2 cent in this thread, I'd like to see the Brewster in AH (along with a lot of other planes! :D)
EDIT: Corrected the virtual pilots link, to make it lead to english page
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Originally posted by Gianlupo
and they had pilot with impressive scores, like Cpt. Hans "Hasse" Wind, 75 victories on a Brewster....
Being picky, I feel compelled to post a correction. :)
39 of Hans Wind's victories were in the Brewster, the last 36 were in Messerschmitt 109G-2's and G-6's. (From May 27th 1944 to June 28th 1944, when he was injured).
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:lol Thanks for the correction Panzzer, I misinterpreted what I read in Virtual pilots, I just assumed that all of his victories were achieved on a Brewster :p
Was I correct about '109? :)
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Yes, the Finnish Air Force never had any 109F's, you were right about that. There were some German squadrons (JG 5, at least) operating in northern Finland, though - they had Emils and Friedrichs.
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Ah, thanks for the confirmation and the new info! ;) I didn't know of German units in northern Finland.
It would be good if at virtualpilots they add a page in english with a general overview of the continuation war, I couldn't find any and I had to make a search on the net to know more about it.
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Originally posted by frank3
I must agree, the kills were probably Ju-52's, quite an easy kill, even for the Brewster (it's armament is quite good though)
It seems that I must re-post this link (http://www.warbirdforum.com/scores.htm) where you can use your own eyes to see that the kills were indeed against planes that are as capable fighters as the Ju-52. The list includes quite a many Spitfires, Hurricanes and La-5s.
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20.10.42 LeLv 24 lentomestari Juutilainen, Eino Ilmari BW-364 1.00 He-111 33.17 29.50 Okay
What heppened there? Why did he shoot down a He-111?
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The He-111 he shot down was captured by Russians. From Finnish Fighter Aces (http://www.sci.fi/~fta/finace012.htm):
Juutilainen: The He-111 incident happened on October 20, 1942. I was chasing a Pe-2 into a cloud over the Gulf of Finland when I suddenly came up behind a Heinkel. Of course, at first I thought it was a German plane, and I decided to let him be, but when the rear gunner began to fire at me, I decided to shoot back. It was then that I noticed there were no national emblems anywhere on the plane. After shooting the rear gunner I set both of its engines on fire. Three men bailed out of the plane's belly, but they all died in the cold water of the Gulf of Finland.
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Wow:O Were the russians useing it to bomb or just test flying it?
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I don't know, haven't heard/read of many captured German planes used by the Soviet Union. I'll try to find some more info on that, if I can. My first guess would be testing, or maybe a reconnaissance flight...
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I'm referring to the earlier thread on the Brewster (Aircraft & Vehicles (http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=52235)), it's been active recently...
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Bring the Polikarpov I-17!
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Originally posted by Panzzer
Yes, why not???
It's American, after all. ;)
WHY DIDNT YOU SAY SO?!?!?!
GET IT IN AH NOW
AEMERICKA PLEANEZ!!!!!1! :rofl :rofl :furious :mad: :furious :mad: :mad: :furious
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weird looking plane.....I like it.