Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: Sketch on August 13, 2005, 05:25:23 AM
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Change those guns around, make it all of them aren't shooting at the same time. It turns .303's into 20mm! If you have set of Buffs up and didn't bring a gunner, that is your fault. If not, the gun they are in should be the only one firing so it doesn't turn a 2x 50cal into a 6x with the top 6 firing away also! Next thing you know you have 12-18 guns all shooting at you......
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2/3 german fighters shot down durring the war were killed by defencive guns on bombers.
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If you cannt shot down bomber w/o spraying from his six then it is YOUR fault.
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Originally posted by SMIDSY
2/3 german fighters shot down durring the war were killed by defencive guns on bombers.
That's an incorrect statement.
Bomber gunners claimed 9 times as many fighters as were actually shot down. It was fighters that defeated the Luftwaffe, not bomber gunners.
As it is, my experience shows that the defensive guns in AH are WAY over modeled in terms of accuracy. That experience results from shooting many thousands of rounds thru Browning BMGs (.50 caliber).
I believe the effectiveness of these guns is deliberate. If bombers were as defenseless in AH against fighters as they were in against cannon-armed fighters in WWII, no one would fly them.
My regards,
Widewing
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Originally posted by Widewing
If bombers were as defenseless in AH against fighters as they were in against cannon-armed fighters in WWII, no one would fly them.
My regards,
Widewing
You say that as if it's a bad thing.
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HiTech has posted many times that the guns on the bombers are no different than the ones on fighters.
However the guns are being fired from a more stable platform but then again most people don't know or just don't bother to attack bomber formations correctly.
Originally posted by Widewing
As it is, my experience shows that the defensive guns in AH are WAY over modeled in terms of accuracy. That experience results from shooting many thousands of rounds thru Browning BMGs (.50 caliber).
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Originally posted by jpeg
HiTech has posted many times that the guns on the bombers are no different than the ones on fighters.
However the guns are being fired from a more stable platform but then again most people don't know or just don't bother to attack bomber formations correctly.
I'd just like to point out that IRL bombers did not cruise at 300
mph. There was also a bit more time to intercept them because
their targets were not 25 miles from their home fields.
Admittedly fighters didn't zoom around at full speed either, but
the cruise speed for heavy bomber formations was closer to
170 than 300.
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A big thing is being able to fire every gun that has the NME Aircraft in thier sight....
Do the math in a sense just for a set of 17's or 24's....
Tail Gunner X6
Top Turrent 'or' Belly Turrent x6
and if you are to the left or right of the center bomber you have the additional Waist gunner, so bring another 3 at yah...
Overall, your getting 12-15 guns all shooting at you at the same time.... I wish I could have afighter with that many guns!
It is pure overkill being able to use all the guns at once...
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Many people have no idea on how to attack a bomber though, a good example is the ever so popular 'dead-6' attack.
The fighter jock hangs behind the bomber, blazing away. Effect; fighter gets shot down with the bomber sustaining heavy damage.
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Originally posted by jpeg
However the guns are being fired from a more stable platform but then again most people don't know or just don't bother to attack bomber formations correctly.
Ever fire a BMG from a moving platform, at a moving platform? I have. Now, let's have those platforms moving freely in the air. Let's also introduce the effects on gun mount shake (BMGs are recoil operated). I read a study were they estimated that just over 0.2% of the rounds fired by American heavy bomber gunners actually hit enemy fighters. That's just two hits per 1,000 rounds fired.
You can model a lot of things based upon published data. However, until you have actually used the weapons, it is nothing more than a math exercise.
My regards,
Widewing
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I have used alot of weapons of the military as I am an AMMO Troop in the USAF.... Your right Widewing, if we had the recoil as the 30 & 50 cals have in real life.... not many fighters would be dying from attacking bomber groups....
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I know nothing about recoil of bomber's guns, but i believe such small percentage of hit was through gunners fired from far distance just to force enemy to break attack or dont give him chance to shoot accurately.
BTW, fighters hits about 1% on average, afaik
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Overmodeled buff guns are my biggest fear for ToD. The LW will get mowed out of the sky if it stays the way it is.
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Originally posted by Oleg
I know nothing about recoil of bomber's guns, but i believe such small percentage of hit was through gunners fired from far distance just to force enemy to break attack or dont give him chance to shoot accurately.
BTW, fighters hits about 1% on average, afaik
Remember that the LW did mainly head-on attacks. There wasn't much time to fire a "warning shot" and have them notice it.
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Could counter with how ridiculously easy it is to kill buffs -
a) short burst in wingtip, off it comes.
b) B24 a few hits at wingroot sets it alight.
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for a good read which completely opened my eyes on how vunerable bombers were, and how many were actually lost.. check this book out: -
http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0NXL/is_3_16/ai_94269873
Originally posted by Kev367th
Could counter with how ridiculously easy it is to kill buffs -
a) short burst in wingtip, off it comes.
b) B24 a few hits at wingroot sets it alight.
Read again what you have written, you are describing two weak points on bombers. For someone that does not know how to kill bombers, they may seem ridiculously hard to kill.
Bombers had very vunerable area's in RL, they do in game. In the book i linked above, a 109 pilot describes how he shoots down a B-17 after his cannon, and one machine gun on his 109 jam. He downed a 17 with one pass from one machine gun.
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Add better recoil effects to pintle mounted mgs. There's a reason machine gunners in real life fire in short bursts.
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Originally posted by ChristCAF
Change those guns around, make it all of them aren't shooting at the same time. It turns .303's into 20mm! If you have set of Buffs up and didn't bring a gunner, that is your fault. If not, the gun they are in should be the only one firing so it doesn't turn a 2x 50cal into a 6x with the top 6 firing away also! Next thing you know you have 12-18 guns all shooting at you......
If you learned how to kill bombers the proper way, this would not be an issue for you.
Of course you could always desire bombers guns be reduced in effectiveness, limit the damage their bombs can do and harden structures such as HQ's. In other words turn them into ineffectual targets requiring large amounts of time to get into the air and to the target. Oh....wait. Some of that's already been done.
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This topic will never die. (sigh)
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Not as long as Chopsaw keeps bringing back dead threads anyway.
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Originally posted by Rino
Not as long as Chopsaw keeps bringing back dead threads anyway.
Agreed.
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*Running from the last zombie thread on Aircraft/Vehicles*
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!!!!!!!
*Cartoon skidding stop as the second risen from the grave thread shambles towards him*
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!!!!!!!
*Runs off in another direction*
Yeah, I'm in a weird mood today.
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Nope. Topic won't die even if the thread does. I picked up this thread by using search.
Wierd moods aren't so bad.
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To "stand" in the fuselage of a B-17 as it is being pummeled by German 20 mm shells as your best friend's body is reduced to some unrecognizable goo...
[/B]
That would suck.