Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: 101ABN on August 13, 2005, 11:34:28 PM
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Whats the deal with the ENY lately? For the past 2 nights it seems that all that is available for the knights are hot air balloons and big wheels.. I understand if we are winning and all we have left to take are a small handfull of bases. We had about 3 bases more than the other 2 countries and there was an ENY of 36. I dont think that it should matter if we have more players online. Will there ever be a happy medium to this madness? I suggest that there be bigger maps so we are not fighting in a closet. With a bigger map you can drop this whole ENY abortion clinic. Or we can just be a bunch of carpet baggers and never call a country home. Geeze! :mad:
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At that time, a 262 in Rookland was 154 perks. Seems like its working to me. :)
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At this time rooks 105, bish 90 and knits 179...choke on it.
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Switch countries, problem solved.
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Originally posted by 101ABN
Whats the deal with the ENY lately? For the past 2 nights it seems that all that is available for the knights are hot air balloons and big wheels..
ROFL:lol
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Hahahahaha, ok, you guys had almost as many people throughout the entire night as Rooks and Bishops combined and you think it's wrong you had an ENY handicap?!?! All that silly handicap meant from our perspective was we got to get vulched by Knight La5's instead of Knight La7's, either way we were going to get vulched, no doubt about it. I sure didn't see any Knights or Knight squadrons move to an under-manned team to improve arena gameplay balance. I just saw you guys steamrolling, vulching and gang-hording in your 30+ ENY rides...I don't care, we had fun in our own way too, but to say you don't deserve the ENY penalty because Knights only managed to have a few more bases than Rooks or Bish with those huge numbers is...well...STUPID!
Zazen
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:rofl
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:rofl :rofl :rofl
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ENY is teh g00d.
I dunno why everyone has problems flying the spit 1. :rolleyes:
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Fly the 109F and you will never know when eny is in effect.
I never know unless someone wh.....complains about it.
If we had the kinda numbers Zazen is saying wether its 100 Dwe..Spitfires or 100 109s. Whats the difference? a horde is a horde is a horde
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My bird of choice is usually the A6Mb, so I've never felt the effect. If I did, though, I would switch teams. Heck, I left from the Bishops to the Rooks because it always seemed like our ENY was in the 20s and I want a big crowd so I didn't stick out. I wanted to kill some people in the air first, and 1-1 when you are a n00b doesn't work.
Then again, neither does the 4v1 or 8v1 that happened tonight and HAS been happening every night.
I hardly ever come on in the night anymore, if I can help it because of this. Frankly, I don't check the numbers; I look at the bars. When I see a red bar two sectors long at every frontline Rook base with a tiny green, I just log after a few deaths. It's getting so that I don't even say goodbye to squaddies anymore, I just log in disgust at my lack of skill (being unable to get off the ground when chased by 12 Knights/Bishops or being unable to leave from the spawn, due to shotgun-firing indestructible Pzs).
Eny would be great if it automatically switched pilots who belonged to no squadron to the under-staffed countries at loggin. That way the pilot would be "forced" to fly for the other side and realize that this game is about fun, rather than seeing who can land the most kills in one sortie in a Tiger when you eny is 40 and you get about -30 perks for doing it.
Jesus, sorry that I type so much and have such little to say! :rofl
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ENY was cool this evening, fun to blow up ju88s and TBMs in cheap me262:p
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Lol, im sure I seen a knit Spad flying around last night :) .
Seriously though you guys realize you can earn more than reset perkies in a few flights if you swap and fly for the underdogs.
Not unusual to get 15-20 perk flights, without landing lol. All while still having mega cheap perky stuff.
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Knit numbers suck big time.
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im all for lowering the perkies for uber rides. heck i would be great to see the 262 on the discount shelf.
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Originally posted by Zazen13
Hahahahaha, ok, you guys had almost as many people throughout the entire night as Rooks and Bishops combined and you think it's wrong you had an ENY handicap?!?! All that silly handicap meant from our perspective was we got to get vulched by Knight La5's instead of Knight La7's, either way we were going to get vulched, no doubt about it. I sure didn't see any Knights or Knight squadrons move to an under-manned team to improve arena gameplay balance. I just saw you guys steamrolling, vulching and gang-hording in your 30+ ENY rides...I don't care, we had fun in our own way too, but to say you don't deserve the ENY penalty because Knights only managed to have a few more bases than Rooks or Bish with those huge numbers is...well...STUPID!
Zazen
I never once said that we didnt "deserve" a penalty. The eny effects players in different ways. One, it increases the price for uber rides for the country that happens to have more players online, then it lowers the price for uber rides for the undermanned country. This I agree with! But setting the bar to the point that all i have available is a p40.... thats just nuts. Im just seeing the "happy medium" for this issue.... and crying a bit here.
Getting vulched happens all the time, reguardless to who has more folks or who is winning. Look out the tower windows for some situational awareness before upping, and if you fly into a swarm of bad guys alone, well thats just plain stupid. :aok
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Originally posted by FiLtH
At this time rooks 105, bish 90 and knits 179...choke on it.
choke on it? thats all you can come up with? :aok :rofl
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Proposal for next Tour - eliminate all perk tariffs & ENY side balancing. It's like trying to regulate the economy...doesn't work.
my two cents....
DmdMax
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Well I know earlier that the Knits had an ENY of 41+!!!!
Can't remeber the exact numbers but you must have had way bigger numbers.
Solution is easy go to either Rook or Bish (you can swap back after 3 or 6 hours), we weren't ENY'ed at all, and all perky stuff was on the sale shelf.
Quite frankly I don't see the fun flying for a side that outnumbers both other sides put together.
Can earn more perks (if thats what your after) much more quickly on the lower numbered teams.
Basically the solution is your hands, you choose not to do it, your choice, no-one forces you on the highest numbered team.
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Originally posted by Kev367th
Solution is easy go to either Rook or Bish (you can swap back after 3 or 6 hours) Basically the solution is your hands, you choose not to do it, your choice, no-one forces you on the highest numbered team.
That whole "then swich sides" thing is stupid. I like flying with the team that I choose. Why should I switch over to the team that I fight agenst to help them? IMO the EMY dosent work. So what if you take away all the "good planes" your ganna have the same amount of ppl flying just in planes with a lesser EMY. If the EMY thing has to be how it is you should beable to fly the perked AC even if the EMY is set to 50+. If I want to get in a 150+perked tiger then thats my problem. You shouldnt punnish a team jsut cuz its winning but heres something else, what if a team is down to -10 fields and the others have lets say +50 why not disable the "good planes" so the other country has a fighting chance. It the same thing as the ENY we have now some why cant we have that one?
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Whole point is you have choices.
You are not being 'forced' to play any one way, you play depending on the choice you make.
True 30+ P-40s is still a hoard, what would you rather have coming at you, 30+ p40s or 30+ mix of La7, Tiffys, Ponys etc?
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Originally posted by TrueKill
That whole "then swich sides" thing is stupid. I like flying with the team that I choose. Why should I switch over to the team that I fight agenst to help them? IMO the EMY dosent work. So what if you take away all the "good planes" your ganna have the same amount of ppl flying just in planes with a lesser EMY. If the EMY thing has to be how it is you should beable to fly the perked AC even if the EMY is set to 50+. If I want to get in a 150+perked tiger then thats my problem. You shouldnt punnish a team jsut cuz its winning but heres something else, what if a team is down to -10 fields and the others have lets say +50 why not disable the "good planes" so the other country has a fighting chance. It the same thing as the ENY we have now some why cant we have that one?
Yeah:aok
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Originally posted by Kev367th
True 30+ P-40s is still a hoard, what would you rather have coming at you, 30+ p40s or 30+ mix of La7, Tiffys, Ponys etc?
um ill take the lgay tiffs and ponys.......my 109F4 can handle them.
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It's 5 hours for a switch.
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Funny... I never even noticed ENY. I was having a blast furballing near A1 and then south of A44.
to all those who participated. It was a fun time.
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Originally posted by 101ABN
I never once said that we didnt "deserve" a penalty. The eny effects players in different ways. One, it increases the price for uber rides for the country that happens to have more players online, then it lowers the price for uber rides for the undermanned country. This I agree with! But setting the bar to the point that all i have available is a p40.... thats just nuts. Im just seeing the "happy medium" for this issue.... and crying a bit here.
Getting vulched happens all the time, reguardless to who has more folks or who is winning. Look out the tower windows for some situational awareness before upping, and if you fly into a swarm of bad guys alone, well thats just plain stupid. :aok
Sorry friend but if you want to be on a team that outnumbers both the other teams combined that's the price you must pay. It's not our rule, it's HiTech's. When you have those kind of numbers it really doesn't matter what you are flying. They are all equally good at vulching numerically overwhelmed people on the runway.
Zazen
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Originally posted by Kev367th
True 30+ P-40s is still a hoard, what would you rather have coming at you, 30+ p40s or 30+ mix of La7, Tiffys, Ponys etc?
When it comes to that kind of numbers imbalance.
At that point
It dosnt matter.
A horde is a horde is a horde
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This kind of crybaby nonsense borders on rediculous.. Learn to fly the less uber fighters for cryin'-out-loud! Learn enough ACM so that you don't need the high-speed crutches.... Geez....
The following aircraft have ENY values of 40 or higher:
P-47D-11
Bf 109G-6
Bf 109G-2
Bf 109F-4
F4U-1
C.205
P-38G
Ki-61
Mosquito
FM-2
C.202
Bf 110C-4b
F4F-4
Bf 109E-4
P-40E
A6M2
Spit MkI
Hurri MkI
Hurri MkIID
P-40B
The first 10 are very capable aircraft and damn fun to fly.
Now, if the ENY penalty drops to 35, you can add these:
P-51B
P-38J
P-47D-25
Fw 190A-5
Fw 190F-8
Hurri IIC
Pause and consider that the P-51B offers performance as good as anything in the game. Its limitation is 4 mgs and limited ammo and only 1k of bombs. In the hands of a decent pilot, the P-38J is a monster and can haul 2k of bombs. Likewise, the P-47D-25 can haul bombs, 2.5k plus 8 heavy machine guns and 3,400 rounds of ammo.
Personally, I suggest that you broaden your horizons or switch to a side with less people. I'm sorry your vulch-o-matic ride isn't available during prime time, life sometimes bites. :rolleyes:
My regards,
Widewing
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Originally posted by TrueKill
um ill take the lgay tiffs and ponys.......my 109F4 can handle them.
Then whats your problem? If your man enough to fly an F4, you're not man enough to hold your whines about ENY back?
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Originally posted by Widewing
This kind if crybaby nonsense borders on rediculous.. Learn to fly the less uber fighters for cryin'-out-loud! Learn enough ACM so that you don't need the high-speed crutches.... Geez.......
...Pause and consider that the P-51B offers performance as good as anything in the game. Its limitation is 4 mgs and limited ammo and only 1k of bombs. In the hands of a decent pilot, the P-38J is a monster and can haul 2k of bombs. Likewise, the P-47D-25 can haul bombs, 2.5k plus 8 heavy machine guns and 3,400 rounds of ammo.
Personally, I suggest that you broaden your horizons or switch to a side with less people. I'm sorry your vulch-o-matic ride isn't available during prime time, life sometimes bites. :rolleyes:
My regards,
Widewing
Well put WW
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WideWing, Well said.
Not to mention that not only are they fun to t\fly but if you do learn how to fly them you will find the things you learn in them helpful and make you even better in your standard EZ Mode plane.
And you will also learn the abilities of these planes which will help you to learn how to defeat these lessor planes that keep spanking your arse in your EZ mode plane.
Myself personally. I'd rather have to fight 4 P51D's or La7's then 4 109Fs or FM2's
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I would have to say my only 2 complaints about the current eny system is:
1 If I want to pay that huge price for a perk ride when ENY is enabled on my country I would like the option.
2 I would at least like to be able to take up a panzer when the ENY is very high. Last night we got to a point when we could only up t-34's and to tell the truth it just won't kill a tiger. And the enemy air cover was to thick to come over and bomb him. So finally I did the old trick of upping m-16 after m-16 and disabled him.
Planes you can fly to their abilities and have a chance true. But on the ground having to die multiple times with my m-16 versus a tiger was a bit ridiculus. Especially when I would have gladly paid the high perks for me to have a tiger.
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LOL omg you have numbers and you want the uber planes too... Wow this is the best whine I've heard in some time, you should be proud :aok
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Thanks I've been practicing. :D
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Originally posted by MadBull
1 If I want to pay that huge price for a perk ride when ENY is enabled on my country I would like the option.
Sure, of course you would, heck if I outnumbered both the other countries combined I'd be willing to pay 1,000,000 perks for a 262 if I lost it. Of course the chance of losing it is ZERO with such huge numbers... So, in actuality what you want is your HUGE numbers and free 262s, Temps etc. Nice try!:rolleyes:
Zazen
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It still comes down to this notion of loyalty to a chess piece, which I think is silly, but if it's your deal, more power to ya.
That being said, that loyalty comes with a price, and that's if the numbers are that skewed, your loyalty to the chess piece stings a bit.
Since the planes are the same in all countries and overall the people are the same in all the countries, why not go where the numbers are lowest and have at it.
No one really dies, the planes are free and if you are in the low numbered land, the fights aren't hard to find.
Of course if you are one of those folks who worries about your stats, that gets tough as you are gonna get clobbered a lot wading into the mob, but so be it. It's still just a game.
Dan/CorkyJr
Who got clobbered lots last night. Even more then my normal dying too which takes a bit of work :)
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Ya thats all I had last night. I was getting home from a party and was quite drunk. Seeing the Knits numbers, and being unable to fly, I was curious how high their ENY must be. So I went over to see. Was 30 one time I looked.
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For the past couple of weeks it seems that the knights are getting more and more numbers. If the knights keep having numbers like they did Saturday night they wont have many planes to choose from each night. This ENY limiter is just going to encourage some of you to go to the rooks or bish so you can fly the plane you want.
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This sort of post is proof, that the ENY limiter is working EXACTLY the way it is supposed to.
I am quite satisfied. Though outnumbered and horded, it was still fun rushing through zillion La-5s in 3 perky Ta152s... ROFL.
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Originally posted by 101ABN
But setting the bar to the point that all i have available is a p40.... thats just nuts. Im just seeing the "happy medium" for this issue.... and crying a bit here.
Your "happy medium" seems suspiciously arranged to equal "does not affect you at all." I can't imagine why that would be.
Oh wait, it is because you want your cake and to eat it too. You want to have the numbers and yet have unlimited access to La-7s, P-51Ds and P-47Ns.
As to limiting yourself to P-40s, that is your problem. The are many aircraft that are vastly superior to the P-40 that you choose to ignore. Look at Widwing's list, there are very good fighters on that list. The La-5FN is not, frankly, that much worse than the La-7. The Mosquito has all the firepower you could ever want. The C.205 is a great all round fighter. The Bf109G-2 climbs like a bat out of hell. Learn! Grow! Try!
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A good thing outa all this, You Sure cant be accused of spying, just tell them your there now to "fly the plane you want". Just start jumping every five hours. Tell your friends and squad where you are so your not killing anybody you were just flying with 5 minutes ago! Nothing like being killed by one of your squad mates or people you have flown with all day or week or month just to have them killing you or you killing them now, til eny goes down in what ever country has it. :eek:
Cv's can be hard to find at times :) I always wondered how some seemed to know the location of a cv thats no where near a enme base, and they did not comb the sea for five sectors to find it. oh yah! nice for the floating toolshed killers. Ever see the text when it says "huge mission "getting ready" to up outa a10 to hit a25" <----- they are NOT mind readers. key words "getting ready" ...
This game is not worth it for me to stoop that low, but there is those that do. Helps the demise of a country on the verge of being reset in the first place, "less suffering if you will" Anticipate the eny and jump before, that way, the 5 hours is gone just in time to jump back with some juicy gossip.
If your wanting people to jump countries because of the ENY and not because there rotating there squad or themselves for a full tour, Check this out! There is no loyalty to nothing, for sure if you want them to jump back and forth, Dont be suprized , when they jump back to the counrty they came from (loyal to), that any and all info that can be used wont be. This game is that important to some of these people.
Its kinda ironic aint it! Its there to supposely help a country in trouble, but in the end it helps there demise. Good luck eny ppl. enjoy :)
(quote by filth) funny stuff!!
I was getting home from a party and was quite drunk. Seeing the Knits numbers, and being unable to fly, I was curious how high their ENY must be. So I went over to see. Was 30 one time I looked.
Oh by the way filth it was 29 before you jumped, you could have stayed where you were at and asked instead. :eek: Remember your supposed to go the other way. lmao! :p I think were making real progress here! haha!
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Originally posted by DREDIOCK
Fly the 109F and you will never know when eny is in effect.
I never know unless someone wh.....complains about it.
If we had the kinda numbers Zazen is saying wether its 100 Dwe..Spitfires or 100 109s. Whats the difference? a horde is a horde is a horde
I fly the 109F4 as my main ride also. So ENY has little effect on me.
I think that as a means of controlling numbers, the ENY has not been that successful, as numbers over the last week or so have testified. I do hear a lot of complaining about it on the Knight text and vox channels, but I see little in the way of BBS response from the Knights.
All in all, I am sure that being gang banged in your uber LA7 by a bunch of 109F4’s feels little different than being gang banged in your uber LA7 by a bunch of other uber LA7’s. The MA has turned into a horde on a few, gang-bang or be gang-banged, vulch or be vulched, jungle.
The ENY restrictions haven’t changed that.
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Originally posted by AKFokerFoder+
I fly the 109F4 as my main ride also. So ENY has little effect on me.
I think that as a means of controlling numbers, the ENY has not been that successful, as numbers over the last week or so have testified. I do hear a lot of complaining about it on the Knight text and vox channels, but I see little in the way of BBS response from the Knights.
All in all, I am sure that being gang banged in your uber LA7 by a bunch of 109F4’s feels little different than being gang banged in your uber LA7 by a bunch of other uber LA7’s. The MA has turned into a horde on a few, gang-bang or be gang-banged, vulch or be vulched, jungle.
The ENY restrictions haven’t changed that.
True, the horde still exists but it is a lot more fun since the ENY change. I actually flew a few perky rides last night and had a blast. Learned the 4-Hog is a beast and the Spit14 aint so bad either. I think the ENY limiter is doing the trick, making it a little more balanced....
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Originally posted by AKFokerFoder+
All in all, I am sure that being gang banged in your uber LA7 by a bunch of 109F4’s feels little different than being gang banged in your uber LA7 by a bunch of other uber LA7’s. The MA has turned into a horde on a few, gang-bang or be gang-banged, vulch or be vulched, jungle.
The ENY restrictions haven’t changed that.
I gotta disagree with you about no difference in getting ganged by early or late war stuff. If you for instance go into a 5 on 1 (la7 vs 109f's) then the la7 can easily "extend";) and/or generally take them on as he sees fit. If it was a horde of la7's, then he stands no chance and has no control of the situation. True either way odds are against him, but IMO he stands a much better chance vs 109f's. Add on top of that very cheap perk rides so you can turn that la7 into a temp, spit14 or even a 262. Then a 5vs1 doesn't look so hopeless. I think in that aspect, ENY does help.
I do agree that it really has done nuthin to even out numbers however.
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Originally posted by 101ABN
Whats the deal with the ENY lately? For the past 2 nights it seems that all that is available for the knights are hot air balloons and big wheels.. I understand if we are winning and all we have left to take are a small handfull of bases. We had about 3 bases more than the other 2 countries and there was an ENY of 36. I dont think that it should matter if we have more players online. Will there ever be a happy medium to this madness? I suggest that there be bigger maps so we are not fighting in a closet. With a bigger map you can drop this whole ENY abortion clinic. Or we can just be a bunch of carpet baggers and never call a country home. Geeze! :mad:
I would like to say that I feel your pain but I would be lying. I can however say that your whines are music to my ears and a further proof that the ENY system does work. So you couldn't fly your La7 last night, so what? Either log off or switch countries. Your whines on this board will do nothing to change the ENY system and will only bring a smile to our collective faces as we enjoy the sound of your squealing. This is the price you pay for being a lemming.
Of course, getting 50-80 perks per sortie last night while kicking the crap out of the Knitword hord was fun too.
ack-ack
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I agree with Zazen on this one. Last night when I logged on after work, the Knights had enough players to take on a two front war with the Bish and Rooks and still have everything even at 1-1 odds. Now if you take into consideration the fact that threre are those Bish and Rooks that predominently fight each other on the third front, the Knights would and could of had numbers advantages on both of their fronts.
Do I dare say it???? Is it time for a Rook/Bish alliance when those numbers are so skewed. Only the future holds that answer.
Muttman
Sick Puppies
PS: Can you imagine the moaning and groaning from Knitland if that ever happened?
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Originally posted by Ack-Ack
I would like to say that I feel your pain but I would be lying. I can however say that your whines are music to my ears and a further proof that the ENY system does work. ....
:rofl
My god this pretty simple sentence almost killed me :D
Perhaps is it the influence of the Sancerre I drank but damm, I didn't laught so much since a very long time !
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the knights had a 60 eny so tell us what to fly then i dont care about it any more but it dose make it hard to do something when eny is at 60 h3ll i would have paid the 200 perkies for the tiger but cant do it we had to use m8s as flaks cause we could not get M16s no sorry LTARs dont switch sides we are Knights and always will be but just thought i would let you gents know what eny was up to Sat. but we made it and still took bases i not complaining at all i dont mind it we were shooting down planes with m8s so i guess i sayin there is ways around it plus if you log off and log back on and select a plane that orginaly would not let you host dose not have enough time to count all the players and lets you up it but you got to be fast about it hehehehe
gents the last two days have been fun :aok
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Yeah, Knights sure do have it tough these days.
(http://img129.imageshack.us/img129/8967/ahss147bt.png)
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LTARkilz remarks reminded me of the war move "Enemy at the Gates" concerning the duel between a german and russian sniper. In the early stages of the movie, the young russian soldiers are forced into combat with "One man given a rifle, the other man ammunition. When the man with the rifle falls, the man with the ammunition picks it up".
Goes to show you that with large numbers, it doesnt matter what type of equipment you have, sheer numbers will prevail.
Muttman
Sick Puppies
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Hmmm...from that screenshot, it looks like a few might have been vulching buddies or 2nd accounts.
ack-ack
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akak, bet that was saintan upping bombers in hangar at capped field then ejecting(enterx3) and giving proxies left and right.
squaddie had this happen other day, we left and asked him to quit...he logged.
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Unless Saintan has a second account none of those listed with all those gross kills logged them against him.
I find it hard to figure out how they got so many kills unless they repeatedly hotpadded and returned to the fight. If you also take into consideration the large numbers of other knights involved in a vulch there would have been lots of competition for those kills.
To do that and then land them all together, especially not being in the same squad, seems to me would be a logistical nightmare or pure coincidence. There would had to have been some form of coordination in that effort. To all of you scoring those kills if they were legit, a big to you. If however, they were not, shame on you.
Muttman
Sick Puppies
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Originally posted by AKFokerFoder+
I fly the 109F4 as my main ride also. So ENY has little effect on me.
I think that as a means of controlling numbers, the ENY has not been that successful, as numbers over the last week or so have testified. I do hear a lot of complaining about it on the Knight text and vox channels, but I see little in the way of BBS response from the Knights.
My squad is based as Knights, and I'll jump in as one who supports the eny limiter. I'm not sure how long its been in place (I just re-activated my account a week or so ago) but if its only been a short while, one may want to give it more time before concluding success or failure.
You raise a good point in the horde mentality though. Eny restrictions may not, in the end, fix that. An alternative may be to go the other way and remove/lessen the restiction more dramatically on the out numbered side(s). I really think the combined format that's in place right now is best. However folks often hate to be forced down a specific path. And restricting anything invariably does that. The old honey rather than vinegar thing. Problem i most of this stuff is just a short term fix. The next day, everyone just moves back and the cycle starts again.
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Originally posted by elc7367b
To do that and then land them all together, especially not being in the same squad, seems to me would be a logistical nightmare or pure coincidence. There would had to have been some form of coordination in that effort. To all of you scoring those kills if they were legit, a big to you. If however, they were not, shame on you.
Muttman
Sick Puppies
From that screen shot it appears the only one that had legitimate kills was JB77, although I am willing to bet that 95% of those kills were from vulching but still, a legitimate kill and great job for pulling it off.
The other three however...well, it looks like they're nothing but a bunch of little score potatos. They seem to have an affinity for vulching bombers, in particular Lancasters. Although it does seem that FBHerbie did branch out and use the La7 and IL2 to help pad his score. These weren't proxies as proxies don't show on the kill stats.
ack-ack
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It's been this way a while, Vortex, but the whining dies down, typically, until numbers swing pretty far out of balance. The guys who enjoyed running around in a mob find they're not so terrifying in spit1s and P40s, and get fairly upset.
I still like it, but I'm a mindless furballer lacking ethics, character, and loyalty to people who deem personally identifying with a cartoon symbol rendered over a cartoon plane to be a deadly serious affair.
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I fly for Bish and have been. I find this funny when the Rooks or Bish have the ENY limiter they arent making post complaining. Seems that those complaining about dont like the fact of having 30+ eny limited pilots to face one rook or Bish pilot. Hell you can enact ENY limit the Bish most likely aint going to affect my primary fighter the Hurricane MkIIC. I was flying at A4 tonight against the knits. I had around 10 planes and 15-20 gv's behind and in front of my plane around 20 110's and 190's. The knits had enough to have 2-3 aircraft fighting one Bish and still have left over pilots to hit town and airfield at the same time. I have a feeling if those complaining about it had to face the numbers the Bish and rooks have of late they would be crying for a tighter ENY limit. IN the end I find it funny that some knits are complaining that they cant have around 30 Spit 9's or in that area of eny to face half that number of Bish or Rooks.
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Last week I was knit and the ENY started kicking in. Before it did I was having a little fun spending what few perks I had on a Ta152. Had some fights but no kills, landed and was going to reup but got the ENY message (it was barely even on, but it didn't let me have the Ta). So I upped a Ki61, and wound up having one of the best 1v1 dogfights I've had in a long long time (fun-wise). Were it not for ENY I'd have been 20K looking for lone gunmen bombers and an orbiting timid 190. But thanks to ENY I had a blast.
"ENY Helped me, and it can help you, too! Ask me how! You see, I'm not just an ENY For Knit member, I'm one of the contributors!"
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I tend to agree ACK-ACK. I want to avoid blatantly labeling someone as padding a score unless I have absolute first hand knowledge. I feel without that at least they deserve the benefit of the doubt. I am sure its been done before but 30+ kills in a fighter (assuming one sortie no rearm) stretches the limits of my imagination. But, hey, I wasnt there, I wasnt privy to what happened therefore the caveat.
Muttman
Sick Puppies
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Just re-arm and you can kill forever, gets real boring and the fights don't tend to last long enough for it though.
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"ENY Helped me, and it can help you, too! Ask me how! You see, I'm not just an ENY For Knit member, I'm one of the contributors!"
Hello?? *tap tap tap*
Is this thing ON??!?!
Bah, my humor is wasted on you lot! >:D
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Originally posted by elc7367b
I tend to agree ACK-ACK. I want to avoid blatantly labeling someone as padding a score unless I have absolute first hand knowledge. I feel without that at least they deserve the benefit of the doubt. I am sure its been done before but 30+ kills in a fighter (assuming one sortie no rearm) stretches the limits of my imagination. But, hey, I wasnt there, I wasnt privy to what happened therefore the caveat.
Muttman
Sick Puppies
Lol just look at their stats, see what they killed the most, check saintan see what he's died in the most.
Guess even having numbers they still need to game the game.
Although one of the JBs kills looks good, as someone already said.
Shame on the rest of you.
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Originally posted by sullie363
Yeah, Knights sure do have it tough these days.
(http://img129.imageshack.us/img129/8967/ahss147bt.png)
I'm sure that's a bug , time related maybe, and is hapened afternoons 5-6pm ET. I flew yesterday IL2, over LTARs in GVs, in town A4 , but every time i flew over their tanks without firing a shoot, i registered 6-7 kills,
I did't land them cuz LTARmoil does't miss tgt in flakpanzer:)
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There were also two or three guys before I decided to take a screenshot that got 20+ kills.
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Originally posted by Ack-Ack
I would like to say that I feel your pain but I would be lying. I can however say that your whines are music to my ears and a further proof that the ENY system does work. So you couldn't fly your La7 last night, so what? Either log off or switch countries. Your whines on this board will do nothing to change the ENY system and will only bring a smile to our collective faces as we enjoy the sound of your squealing. This is the price you pay for being a lemming.
Of course, getting 50-80 perks per sortie last night while kicking the crap out of the Knitword hord was fun too.
ack-ack
very rare that i fly a LA, i kinda enjoy my tiffy... Yea i should learn to fly something else... everyone is entitle to a whine post every now and then...... should have laid off the beer. oops. I agree with those who dont like to run into a horde, ive been there before.... what is a lemming?
Im not trying to get uber scores... heck look at mine... :lol
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If you like the Tiffe, give the Mossie a try when the ENY blocks your Tiffie. It isn't as fast, but it's guns are centerline and have more ammo.
Remember, it carries 540 gallons of fuel at 100%, so you rarely need more than 50%. That improves it's handling a lot.
Oh yeah, it rolls better too.:p
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There's a slim chance, I suppose, that they benefited from the bug involving buffs. I got something like 130+ kills from 1 bomber formation. Few camps back, you can figure it out in my stats. Might have a screen somewhere. However, I'm still leaning toward vulching. I've seen FX1 land 18 kills in a single sortie, so these numbers aren't too hard to believe.
ENY still rules. I love it.
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elc that was a damn good movie too:aok
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The whole numbers game of our side only has 60 people and yours has 120 really doesn't amount to squat when there are 20 enemy planes, mostly perk rides, and a carpet of Tigers rolling onto a field while all you have to defend with are T-34s, M-16s and bi-planes and you only have 10 people there to defend because the other 110 are spread over all the other bases. And of course the enemy has porked every set of troops/Supplies and Ordenance 5 sectors back.
Oh I can hear all the "Ol Timers" laughing now. The same "Ol Timers" that aren't having to deal with ENY and the negitive aspects of it. And yes I know that those who get the advantage say it is "Only Fair", and the ones that get the brunt of it say it is "Unfair".
It all has to do with the amount of people playing on one side so, lets take a look.
NUMBERS GAME :
3 sides, 10 fields each.
After 24 hours of play. Both sides having advantage from time to time, evening comes and this is what happens.
60 Bish defending/Attacking from 5 Fields 12 Bish per field in Perk rides.
60 Rooks defending/Attacking from 5 Fields 12 Rooks per field in Perk rides.
120 Knights defending/Attacking from 20 fields, 6 Knights in wagons with slingshots.
Yeah, that is what the our enemy call a fair fight?
This is an extream example, however in many respects it is accurate.
There has to be a better way to level the playing field other than taking away one sides ability to wage a battle other than in inferior equipment. You might as well say that when one side has 10 less people than anyone else, the side with the most people forfeit a base. That is basically what is happening now.
If it is a numbers game, then lets make it just that.
You want to pork a field? Fine, but the minimum number of 5 troops will ALWAYS be available. If Bish/Rooks have 60 and Knights have 120, then captures take 20 troops instead of 10. Under the "Field Status" a spot for the number of troops needed for capture.
This would kill two birds with one solution. Porking and ENY.
My two cents worth.
LTARsqrl
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If you don't want to be limited in your choice of vehicles or aircraft, switch to one of the low numbered countries. If you don't want to fight against your squad, take them with you. If you or your squad won't switch, get used to flying p40bs and defending against tigers with radio flyer wagons and some rocks.
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Originally posted by MadSquirrel
The whole numbers game of our side only has 60 people and yours has 120 really doesn't amount to squat when there are 20 enemy planes, mostly perk rides, and a carpet of Tigers rolling onto a field while all you have to defend with are T-34s, M-16s and bi-planes and you only have 10 people there to defend because the other 110 are spread over all the other bases. And of course the enemy has porked every set of troops/Supplies and Ordenance 5 sectors back.
Oh I can hear all the "Ol Timers" laughing now. The same "Ol Timers" that aren't having to deal with ENY and the negitive aspects of it. And yes I know that those who get the advantage say it is "Only Fair", and the ones that get the brunt of it say it is "Unfair".
It all has to do with the amount of people playing on one side so, lets take a look.
NUMBERS GAME :
3 sides, 10 fields each.
After 24 hours of play. Both sides having advantage from time to time, evening comes and this is what happens.
60 Bish defending/Attacking from 5 Fields 12 Bish per field in Perk rides.
60 Rooks defending/Attacking from 5 Fields 12 Rooks per field in Perk rides.
120 Knights defending/Attacking from 20 fields, 6 Knights in wagons with slingshots.
Yeah, that is what the our enemy call a fair fight?
This is an extream example, however in many respects it is accurate.
There has to be a better way to level the playing field other than taking away one sides ability to wage a battle other than in inferior equipment. You might as well say that when one side has 10 less people than anyone else, the side with the most people forfeit a base. That is basically what is happening now.
If it is a numbers game, then lets make it just that.
You want to pork a field? Fine, but the minimum number of 5 troops will ALWAYS be available. If Bish/Rooks have 60 and Knights have 120, then captures take 20 troops instead of 10. Under the "Field Status" a spot for the number of troops needed for capture.
This would kill two birds with one solution. Porking and ENY.
My two cents worth.
LTARsqrl
I rarely fly perk rides, even when they are el cheapo. I know I'm not very good but I do enjoy flying the more challenging planes like the 202, 205, F41 and P38J. I love landing a 2 - 3 kill run in 202! Makes the game a lot more fun to me....
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Originally posted by MadSquirrel
The whole numbers game of our side only has 60 people and yours has 120 really doesn't amount to squat when there are 20 enemy planes, mostly perk rides, and a carpet of Tigers rolling onto a field while all you have to defend with are T-34s, M-16s and bi-planes and you only have 10 people there to defend because the other 110 are spread over all the other bases. And of course the enemy has porked every set of troops/Supplies and Ordenance 5 sectors back.
I think that is the idea of ENY. while the other 110 of the outnumbering team are hording bases(they don't "spread out") from the 40 people left to defend, the other 20 outnumbered guys can use superior weapons to try to keep their country alive. If you ask me, what you just wrote is the perfect example of how ENY is actually useful and working.
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It is like I said. Those that ENY favor, like it and are all for it. Those who have to deal with it and the negitive aspects of ENY don't like it.
ENY is a quick solution. It is not the "Best" solution. That is what I am striving to find.
I have seen the "I like ENY cause it works for me" posts. But am still looking for the "Lets find something that works for everyone" posts.
You refer to the hord of 110 attacking one base just isn't the case. They are spread all over. Lots of little groups attacking or defending. Not that it doesn't happen, but it is rare I see any major engagments between Bish and Rooks during this time. Like I said, not that it doesn't happen, I just don't see much of it. So those 110 are fighting two fronts all the time.
And any enemy base that does get a hord attacking in most cases just furball because there aren't Ords or Troops within 2 lightyears due to Porking. You know what it is like to try to defend a base against a hord? I am sure you do. Well try doing it without equipment.
You said switch sides? How often during a night. I join at 7pm my time and sides are even. I am defending a base or attacking and 25 Bish log off and all of a sudden, 5 Tigers show up protected by 5 262s, a gaggle Spit XIVs and what ever else. I get vaporized and try to respawn and can't up an Ostwind or Panzer to put up any defense let alone get off the runway with a plane. OH, wait. ENY is here. I need to quit defending this base and go to the other side. The fact I am in a squad means they go too, leaving all the other players that have been fighting with us through the night. So, why not just give the enemy two free bases when a few of the other side log for the night?
If ENY works for you and you feel that the only way your side can have an even footing in a numbers battle is to put P-51s against D3A1s, OK. Personally, I don't think it is right and I think there is a better way. I wouldn't mind having to fight twice as hard or twice as long to capture a field as long as the players that I battle have the same equpment as I do. I also feel that ENY is more geared toward aircraft than ground and sea. Tough to battle when all the Carrier planes are below the ENY. And it is tough to battle Tigers when you can't up armor. By the way, when HT is restricting my game play because the the other teams have players that logged off, do I get a refund?
To me, this game is about capturing territory via Land, Sea and Air. As I said above, instead of saying you have to give the other sides the advantage by using inferior equipment , just make it more difficult to capture bases.
Now before the next posts start agreeing or disagreeing with my views of ENY, lets post some other ideas that might be options to ENY.
LTARsqrl :aok
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Originally posted by MadSquirrel
Those who have to deal with it and the negitive aspects of ENY don't like it.
I was faced with an ENY limit the other night. I hopped over to the bish for a few days. I noticed that quite a few rooks and knits had changed also. Some were Bish due to ENY, others wanted more targets, and some just like to fight the horde whereever it goes. Instead of either complaining about numbers, or ENY limits, they just quietly went about playing the game.
I really don't feel that there is a better solution than offering his customers 2 choices and letting them decide for themselves. However, the number of people currently who will face Tempests, 152s, and La-7s in P40s and Il-2s (albeit in massive groups) speaks volumes of the majority of the MA patrons' interest in a fair and balanced arena.
Perked rides when numbers are severely imbalanced discriminates against the newer or less frequent players. This would result in only the vets on one country, and a majority hopping to the other to fly. They could, at that point, create an opposite imbalance, and wind up stuck in place with no perks. Not acceptable for HTC.
I don't think the current Log-in system could lock people out from a specific country at log in, since country changes are done inside the game, and the log in screen only shows total arena populations.
Increased numbers of troops, or increased hardness of buildings doesn't remedy the imbalance either. Whether it takes the side with a 2-1 numerical advantage 1 goon or 5 goons to capture a field, the horde will still triumph.
The main issue here isn't the difficulty in winning the virtual war, it is the quality of gameplay for the customers who aren't enjoying a huge disparity in the numbers of enemies. The only way to fix this is to lure people with either more opportunities for perks and kills, or impose a fee (ENY limits). Any option which HTC forced upon you would be hated far more than ENY.
You say the ENY isn't the best solution, and it's not, in a sense. The best solution would be for the players to become more active, and less entrenched in the "Xcountry or die!" mentality, and bring the MA back in to balance. This, the best solution, is what I call a "pipe dream". The best practical solution is the one we have now.
ps: turn it up just a bit, and give bombs an ENY value as well, so ord becomes unavailable too. :aok
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You refer to the hord of 110 attacking one base just isn't the case. They are spread all over. Lots of little groups attacking or defending. Not that it doesn't happen, but it is rare I see any major engagments between Bish and Rooks during this time. Like I said, not that it doesn't happen, I just don't see much of it. So those 110 are fighting two fronts all the time.
Well if you take that 110(even spread out) fighting the 40 remaining underdogs that is still a hugely outnumbered group. You have to figure those 40 are spread out as well so I don't see how anything about that can be valid. And for every "I like it" thread, I've seen 5 "I hate it". Why??? Because it's doing it's job. Whenever 1 country get's into the cycle of having superior numbers, the ENY whine for that country springs up again without fail.
You said switch sides? How often during a night. I join at 7pm my time and sides are even. I am defending a base or attacking and 25 Bish log off and all of a sudden, 5 Tigers show up protected by 5 262s, a gaggle Spit XIVs and what ever else. I get vaporized and try to respawn and can't up an Ostwind or Panzer to put up any defense let alone get off the runway with a plane. OH, wait. ENY is here. I need to quit defending this base and go to the other side. The fact I am in a squad means they go too, leaving all the other players that have been fighting with us through the night. So, why not just give the enemy two free bases when a few of the other side log for the night?
You wanna know when to switch sides? Well for the past month bish have been the heavily outnumbered. It's not a certain hour of the day, it's a span of days, weeks and maybe even months. And you can stay in your squad while changing countries. Unless it's a specific "squad rule" you won't be withdrawn for changing countries. If you are in a squad that is country oriented than that's the price you pay. Changing from 1 chess peice to another isn't going to change the game in any way. And my feelings(not saying wrong or right) is that it's silly to gripe about this when you can simply go to oclub and pick a new country. Sometimes it's fun getting to team up with your virtual enemies and fight former countrymen. A lot of fun fights and banter can be struck up this way.
If ENY works for you and you feel that the only way your side can have an even footing in a numbers battle is to put P-51s against D3A1s, OK. Personally, I don't think it is right and I think there is a better way. I wouldn't mind having to fight twice as hard or twice as long to capture a field as long as the players that I battle have the same equpment as I do. I also feel that ENY is more geared toward aircraft than ground and sea. Tough to battle when all the Carrier planes are below the ENY. And it is tough to battle Tigers when you can't up armor. By the way, when HT is restricting my game play because the the other teams have players that logged off, do I get a refund?
To me, this game is about capturing territory via Land, Sea and Air. As I said above, instead of saying you have to give the other sides the advantage by using inferior equipment , just make it more difficult to capture bases.
Now before the next posts start agreeing or disagreeing with my views of ENY, lets post some other ideas that might be options to ENY.
If both sides have equal equipment it won't be a fair fight, that's the point! Even if FH's are tougher to kill and it takes 50 troops to take a base it'll still be 1 sided. My point is this. The simplest way to avoid only being able to up M8s is to switch countries. If your squad is loyal to one chess peice then you have my condulances and it's the burden you bear. I've flown for all sides and promise you all vehicles perform the same on every side. The good guys are still green and the bad, red. I just don't understand how "grown" men and women can make such a fuss instead of simply realizing what needs to be done to correct the problem and doing it. I don't understand how someone can have such blind loyalty to a virtual chess peice to the point of punishing themself??? If you feel that HTC is restricting your gameplay take it up with him. By posting here you make your veiws public and open for discussion(in a respectful manner).
OK, I'm done now. Just had to say my peace. I think sqrl we're just on different sides of the fence and it's not going to change. I guess that's just how it goes. So I hope everything works out for you and if you see a blue spitty, don't shoot it:p
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Originally posted by MadSquirrel
I have seen the "I like ENY cause it works for me" posts. But am still looking for the "Lets find something that works for everyone" posts.
E.g. you are looking for something that doesn't affect you personally so you can keep on ganging with your horde.
It isn't a solution if it doesn't cause discomfort to those in the horde.
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More like 3 roads to the same destination. Because we have more people, you say we should take the roughest road. I say we should all take the same surface road, just make ours longer. LOL
We are all looking for an enriching game. Changing Chess Pieces isn't the issue in my case. It is the people that I play along side. And I think you missed my point as far as the "Changing sides". It has nothing to do with the squad. The squad was brought up because the squad is a unit, not an individual. It has to do with friendship and loyalty each night. If when I come on, sides are even, and then get uneven, are you telling me I should move to the lowest numbered side? Should I check each hour to find out who needs more people and abandon what we have done up till that point.
Having to capture a base with more "Kiddies" would represent the other side having more people. Considering when the sides are unbalanced, the "Pork Patrol" go out in force and nuke everything. And it is a fact that I can fly a goon NOE, never braking DAR, WAY out into the middle of nowhere and one plane from two bases away will fly directly to the goon. This is no exageration. It happens all too often. This makes getting more troops there almost impossible. And how long does it take? Kill 1 troop and no capture. I see it all the time.
The 110 hord would be attacking or defending on two fronts so that is 80. And unfortuanatly it has been very difficult to get two fighters to work togeather let alone 110.
I know this whole post is nothing but smoke and it won't ever be addressed, but from the stand point of a GVer trying to battle Tigers and planes with an M-8 and trying to enjoy the game is annoying.
LTARsqrl ;)
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Originally posted by MadSquirrel
It is like I said. Those that ENY favor, like it and are all for it. Those who have to deal with it and the negitive aspects of ENY don't like it.
Speak for yourself please. I was a Knight when the ENY limiter was set in place and many a night (most nights) the Knights had the most players so we were hit by the ENY. Now at the time we only had the P-38L and it was quite frequently disabled from the ENY limiter. Instead of whining about it, I would just look to other venues for my fun. If that meant upping a Ju87 or A-20 to dogfight in then that's what I did. Sometimes I'd even up a M8 and see if I could jump off those ramps on some of the maps, or I'd log off and do something else.
I thought the ENY was a good idea then and I still think it's a good idea now. Sure there might be better ways but this one works too. And I don't think I need to remind you that HiTech at first tried to let the community solve this problem but when it proved incompetent in this, HiTech stepped in and came up with the ENY system. Like it or not, it's here so better get used to it.
ack-ack
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Originally posted by hubsonfire
I was faced with an ENY limit the other night. I hopped over to the bish for a few days. I noticed that quite a few rooks and knits had changed also. Some were Bish due to ENY, others wanted more targets, and some just like to fight the horde whereever it goes. Instead of either complaining about numbers, or ENY limits, they just quietly went about playing the game.
I really don't feel that there is a better solution than offering his customers 2 choices and letting them decide for themselves. However, the number of people currently who will face Tempests, 152s, and La-7s in P40s and Il-2s (albeit in massive groups) speaks volumes of the majority of the MA patrons' interest in a fair and balanced arena.
Perked rides when numbers are severely imbalanced discriminates against the newer or less frequent players. This would result in only the vets on one country, and a majority hopping to the other to fly. They could, at that point, create an opposite imbalance, and wind up stuck in place with no perks. Not acceptable for HTC.
I don't think the current Log-in system could lock people out from a specific country at log in, since country changes are done inside the game, and the log in screen only shows total arena populations.
Increased numbers of troops, or increased hardness of buildings doesn't remedy the imbalance either. Whether it takes the side with a 2-1 numerical advantage 1 goon or 5 goons to capture a field, the horde will still triumph.
The main issue here isn't the difficulty in winning the virtual war, it is the quality of gameplay for the customers who aren't enjoying a huge disparity in the numbers of enemies. The only way to fix this is to lure people with either more opportunities for perks and kills, or impose a fee (ENY limits). Any option which HTC forced upon you would be hated far more than ENY.
You say the ENY isn't the best solution, and it's not, in a sense. The best solution would be for the players to become more active, and less entrenched in the "Xcountry or die!" mentality, and bring the MA back in to balance. This, the best solution, is what I call a "pipe dream". The best practical solution is the one we have now.
ps: turn it up just a bit, and give bombs an ENY value as well, so ord becomes unavailable too. :aok
hub we were not the ones complaining look at the one that started the thred we just added our 2 cents just as you have we did just fine with out ostis we used m8s just as well as we did ostis and took some bases with m8s
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Originally posted by Karnak
E.g. you are looking for something that doesn't affect you personally so you can keep on ganging with your horde.
It isn't a solution if it doesn't cause discomfort to those in the horde.
the only horde he runs with is us and any given time there is and ave. of 5 of us on so you callin 5 LTARs a horde just think thats a little small to be complaining about LTARsqrl gangin up on ya'll you should watch what you say if your not sure then dont say it and yes i defend my squadies
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Originally posted by Ack-Ack
Speak for yourself please. I was a Knight when the ENY limiter was set in place and many a night (most nights) the Knights had the most players so we were hit by the ENY. Now at the time we only had the P-38L and it was quite frequently disabled from the ENY limiter. Instead of whining about it, I would just look to other venues for my fun. If that meant upping a Ju87 or A-20 to dogfight in then that's what I did. Sometimes I'd even up a M8 and see if I could jump off those ramps on some of the maps, or I'd log off and do something else.
I thought the ENY was a good idea then and I still think it's a good idea now. Sure there might be better ways but this one works too. And I don't think I need to remind you that HiTech at first tried to let the community solve this problem but when it proved incompetent in this, HiTech stepped in and came up with the ENY system. Like it or not, it's here so better get used to it.
ack-ack
Ack-Ack we were not the ones complaining look at the one that started the thred we just added our 2 cents just as you have we did just fine with out ostis we used m8s just as well as we did ostis and took some bases with m8s and used odd planes with pea shooters
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Originally posted by LTARkilz
the only horde he runs with is us and any given time there is and ave. of 5 of us on so you callin 5 LTARs a horde just think thats a little small to be complaining about LTARsqrl gangin up on ya'll you should watch what you say if your not sure then dont say it and yes i defend my squadies
The horde he runs with is the Knits. It matters not at all whether he is in the immediate geographical area as they are. That is something that he, and you apparently, don't get. When the other sides don't have the manpower to counter your manpower it doesn't matter where you are in respect to the bulk of the horde. Any place the outmanned side may gain a numerical superiority is bound to very quickly attract a dominating number of the side with greater numbers, because they have the numbers to be flexible. As long as you are part of those numbers you add to the flexibility and so are part of the horde.
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Your "numbers game" example is a little off.
Usually at night it will be ~100 Bish, ~160 Rook, ~200 knight.
So figure an even split you have 50 Bish v 80 Rook, 50 bish vs 100 Knight, and 80 Rook vs 100 Knight.
That works out to about 2 20v5 (bish v rook), 2 20v10 (bish vs knight), 2 30v5 (rook vs bish), and 30v10 (rook vs knight).
For the Knights, they can either use the same "percent" of force and get 2 40 plane hordes per side vs ~5 on rooks or bish, or go with the same amount of force and get 5 30 plane hordes, with 10 free to go wherever.
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That's how the roster was looking last evening!!
Salutte FBs for switching to bishops!
(http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a146/johny35/roster.jpg)
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I know, LTARs, that you guys didn't start the post, but my comments apply to the whole discussion. The ideas I listed were the ones I recall seeing suggested most often. There are a few others, I'm sure, that I'd forgotten, but most the "suggestions" were, in fact, nothing more than token efforts to give the appearance of doing something, while in no way limiting the equipment or numbers of whatever side was the horde.
The country loyalty is rather silly. There are plenty of good people all over (and, granted, some tools), but the remark someone made about the only real difference being the icons rings true.
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Punc-tu-a-shun. Periods, commas, the like, please. :aok
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The ENY seems to work quite well. If you think about it the shortage of people in your country allows you to completely bulldoze over any field you want because the enemy can't up anything worth while to defend it. Why would anyone want to do away with that kind of system?
For example;
3 countries:
bish 150
rooks 100
knits 155
If the ENY goes outs the window then if 20 rooks get up they can steam roll over any field they want with whatever plane they chose to fly with not much defense. They can continue to do it all night long. What's wrong with that? :p
The ENY can swing any way depending on the numbers, right?
Yeah, it's a wonderful system. It just depends on when and who it happens to. ;)
_______________
Ren
The Damned
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Punc-tu-a-shun i aint that kinda person':rolleyes:
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ENY. socialist inspired game rules, take from the rich and give to the poor..
GET RID OF IT ENTIRELY.
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Originally posted by AmRaaM
ENY. socialist inspired game rules, take from the rich and give to the poor..
GET RID OF IT ENTIRELY.
I am perpetually amazed at the ability of idealogues to apply their political beliefs to anything and everything.
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Chess piece fanatical loyalty is the reason ENY doesn't work.
Go grab your chess set, pick up whatever little piece you fly for, and realize it's just a lousy piece of plastic. Nothing more.
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here here Stang
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Originally posted by Stang
Chess piece fanatical loyalty is the reason ENY doesn't work.
Go grab your chess set, pick up whatever little piece you fly for, and realize it's just a lousy piece of plastic. Nothing more.
No, mine are made of Mexican Marble, but the analogy still holds.
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Hmmm...
what if HTC renames knights to queens....
I bet bish and rook numbers would go up...
:D
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Originally posted by Kev367th
Lol just look at their stats, see what they killed the most, check saintan see what he's died in the most.
Guess even having numbers they still need to game the game.
eep! 300 deaths this tour already in Lancasters.
ack-ack
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My 2 cents: It's pretty clear that ENY does not solve inbalance. It just annoys players who should be allowed to fly what they want. It's also clear that there is serious inbalance and that it is quite unpleasant to be on the outnumbered side. Currently it is the Bishop who are almost always outnumbered by a factor between 1.5 and 2 to 1. In the past, it was the rooks that were seriously outnumbered. Despite what some people with active egos say, it is not really very easy to overcome being heavily outnumbered. It is also pretty clear that loyalty to a chess piece is silly. There are no differences between people on different sides and those that switch usually instantly integrate into the new side, even if it is only for an evening. Attributing characteristics to the people of different chess pieces is ridiculous. However, switching sides is annoying because you don't want to loose interaction with particular "buddies" that you are used to flying (or driving) with.
I think the answer is squads. Side inbalance that built up in the past was solved by particular squads moving sides. When rooks were in the minority some squads did the right thing and moved to rook. So many, in fact, that the rooks then became the majority. Then some squads moved to Knights. Knights now hold the majority.
I think the answer still lies with squads- where a modicum of discipline can affect change. Indeed the best solution would be for some squads to choose to be floating regulators- they would pick the side outnumbered when they log on for their squad operations. This would minimize the "buddy" factor as the buddies you interact with most, your squad, are still together. Also, you would maintain association- in this case with something that actually is relevant, i.e. squad, versus something that is irrelevant, i.e. chess piece.
So I think the solution is the same as it was before: some squads have to make the decision to do the right thing.
715
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Originally posted by 715
My 2 cents: It's pretty clear that ENY does not solve inbalance. It just annoys players who should be allowed to fly what they want. It's also clear that there is serious inbalance and that it is quite unpleasant to be on the outnumbered side. Currently it is the Bishop who are almost always outnumbered by a factor between 1.5 and 2 to 1. In the past, it was the rooks that were seriously outnumbered. Despite what some people with active egos say, it is not really very easy to overcome being heavily outnumbered. It is also pretty clear that loyalty to a chess piece is silly. There are no differences between people on different sides and those that switch usually instantly integrate into the new side, even if it is only for an evening. Attributing characteristics to the people of different chess pieces is ridiculous. However, switching sides is annoying because you don't want to loose interaction with particular "buddies" that you are used to flying (or driving) with.
I think the answer is squads. Side inbalance that built up in the past was solved by particular squads moving sides. When rooks were in the minority some squads did the right thing and moved to rook. So many, in fact, that the rooks then became the majority. Then some squads moved to Knights. Knights now hold the majority.
I think the answer still lies with squads- where a modicum of discipline can affect change. Indeed the best solution would be for some squads to choose to be floating regulators- they would pick the side outnumbered when they log on for their squad operations. This would minimize the "buddy" factor as the buddies you interact with most, your squad, are still together. Also, you would maintain association- in this case with something that actually is relevant, i.e. squad, versus something that is irrelevant, i.e. chess piece.
So I think the solution is the same as it was before: some squads have to make the decision to do the right thing.
715
This was true in the past, hasn't happened for a long time now.
I remember a lot of squads going Rooks (ours included) when they were low in numbers.
Only thing I can't figure is why squads have gone from Rooks and Bish to the Knits, making the numbers imbalance worse. To you guys 'the middle finger'. You are the problem!
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I posted this thought in another thread about fighter score and vulching in La7, but it pertains here. One reason the ENY thingy doesn't really work very well is psychological.
If you have a numbers advantage and you are not penalyzed a good many may, for the sense of fairplay, maybe not after or during one night but if a pattern emerges, switch to the undersided team. However, once you start penalizing, that is to say handicapping the advantaged team a very different sentiment emerges. The thoughts are then that well, yes we outnumber team X, but we are spotting them 20 ENY in aircraft and vehicles, therefore they are getting an advantage over us that should equal things out, therefore all is fair why switch?
So, by saying the ENY itself balances the arena, is saying that it's fine to have 200 Knights to 125 Rooks to 75 Bishops because Knights are being handicapped accordingly. The absolute only reason now that a Knight would switch is if his loyalty to a particular plane he was being denied access to was stronger than his loyalty to his friends, squaddies and countrymen, that is to say, not bloody likely...You see how this works psychologically?
That is why I have always been an advocate of incentives to move, as I also outlined in the Fighter score thread, as opposed to disincentives to stay put. It is quite a different thing for a person to realize if he moved to country X that he would receive some sort of benefit for doing so, a reward for his altruistic sportsmanship, not simply the priviledge of access to the entire planeset which most take for granted anyways. Rather than handicap and penalyze, instead reward and bestow benefits to encourage the behavior you would like. Honey catches more flies than vinegar, the Wind and sun Vs. the man in the coat anology, , etc.
The other thing I mention in the other thread, I should have just cut n' pasted the whole thing. Is the ENY limiter affects everyone theoretically, but in actuality really affects the poor players and the new player most dramatically. Good players can adapt tactics to the situation, they are proficient in a wide variety of planes spanning the entire ENY spectrum, they often have established wingmen who are equally talented etc. It's the poor newbie plebe who can only manage to squeeze out a kill or two in a Niki or Spit before getting baby seal clubbed that suffers most. The problem is yes the newbie or weak player will probably move eventually, but so what, the poor bastard can only manage 25 kills in 100 sorties. However, the elite veterans who laugh at the ENY limiter kill 400 in 100 sorties and can do that in a p40B with as much alacrity as a Spit especially as part of a vulching gangbang horde.
So, you must move 16 noobs or poor players to equal out the one skilled veteran who does not move. Why not instead have a balancing system that tries to move the skilled 20% who account for 80% of MA kills with incentives to play for the underdog. Rather than the current ENY system that attempts to move the bottom 80% who account for only 20% of the MA kills through punishment, penalties and handicapping. The ENY system is psychologically bellybutton backwards, and inefficient in how it targets the least impactfull, but most numerous (ie: paying customer) demographic of the community in the MA. Not only that, but it punishes newbies, your newest customers, your future, the last people on Earth HTC should want to start wacking with the ENY Cat 'o Nine tails.
The end result of the ENY limiter in theory is a team that is numerically weak for an extended period may start to gain people from the other countries over time via the ENY limiter. They may begin to appear more numerically even on paper. But, the players they are getting are the ones most dramatically effected by the ENY handicap, that is the least skilled, the least experienced, the least talented and the least loyal, therefore the least likely to stay there long-term. So, even if and when the numbers do reach relative parity, the skill quotient definately does not. What you are left with is only the superficial illusion of balance.
Zazen
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Help WAAHHHH I'm on a country with overwhelming numbers and I'm getting ENY'ed.
I don't want to leave the hoard because I might get shot down.
The ENV is evil.
Give me something to change sides WAHHHHHH. (You already get 2 things, access to all planes, extremely cheap perk stuff)
One problem with your theory Zazen - Newbies should have the least 'loyalty' to a country therefore shouldn't have a problem with changing sides, so they aren't punished as you put it.
Hell I'll take 23 perk rocket planes all night, ENV works great.
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Originally posted by Kev367th
One problem with your theory Zazen - Newbies should have the least 'loyalty' to a country therefore shouldn't have a problem with changing sides, so they aren't punished as you put it.
Did you actualy read the whole post? They are punished, until they move, then they are punished in a different way.
Of course they move eventually, along with some other noobs and some guys who can only find a kill with a Spit and an Indian guide. Then, forced to the overwhelmed country, they get gang spanked and baby seal clubbed by the loyal seasoned veterans who stayed with their friends and squadmates. Then the poor noob quits the game out of sheer frustration taking their $15 and their credit card with them.
Zazen
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Zazen has a cogent set of arguements. The big problem is when a side, like the Knights recently, has a large (40+) numerical advantage all night, every night, for weeks. I left ACSs for 4 years over disgust with the "horde" mentality. I hope I don't have to leave again, with HTC losing one of those "paying newbies" that keep the game solvent for the more experienced vulchers. If I change sides TO the numerically advantaged side I gain ease of play & don't suffer any drop in my performance. Wasn't much issue whether earlier tonight the 5-6 chasing me were in p40's or La7's. It would have been a LOT easier for me in any plane on the high numbered side. BTW, I don't have enough perk points to buy much in the way of perk planes, to lose them to the horde immediately.
-MI-(Shillelagh)
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Originally posted by MIShill
It would have been a LOT easier for me in any plane on the high numbered side.
-MI-(Shillelagh)
Yup, that's exactly correct. To quote myself from last Saturday, I said, "The only difference the ENY limiter makes is the Knights are vulching us in La5's instead of La7's".
The ENY limiter doesn't change the outcome it just changes the method of execution.
Zazen
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Originally posted by Zazen13
Did you actualy read the whole post? They are punished, until they move, then they are punished in a different way.
Of course they move eventually, along with some other noobs and some guys who can only find a kill with a Spit and an Indian guide. Then, forced to the overwhelmed country, they get gang spanked and baby seal clubbed by the loyal seasoned veterans who stayed with their friends and squadmates. Then the poor noob quits the game out of sheer frustration taking their $15 and their credit card with them.
Zazen
You hit the nail on the head -
Just read another post where the LTARs are coming to Bish .
The problem has been the squads who left Rooks and Bish and went to the already higher numbered side.
They are the problem!!!!
That why I gave them the 'Royal Order of the Middle Finger".
Squad rotation is a good idea, until its starts creating the situation we have now.
Was going to say use some common sense to look at the numbers before rotating, but I guess thats asking a little too much.
Be nice to see the Bish/Rooks just kicking the crap out of the Knits only. Imagine Knits ENY'd, being hit exclusively by the other two sides with their cheap perky stuff.
Clear the decks for the whines then lol.
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Originally posted by Kev367th
You hit the nail on the head -
Just read another post where the LTARs are coming to Bish .
The problem has been the squads who left Rooks and Bish and went to the already higher numbered side.
They are the problem!!!!
That why I gave them the 'Royal Order of the Middle Finger".
Squad rotation is a good idea, until its starts creating the situation we have now.
Was going to say use some common sense to look at the numbers before rotating, but I guess thats asking a little too much.
I am not going to name names, but I am an astute observer. I see certain squads that actually FOLLOW the horde around as it goes form one country to another greatly exacerbating the situation. Just as MI says, it's still easier to vulch with the horde in a P40b than fight the vulching hordes in a Spit or Niki. The fair weather flyers will always abound I guess. I prefer the insanely loyal who just stay put, fair weather or foul, to the fair weather candy tulips that follow the horde around.
Zazen
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Originally posted by Zazen13
I am not going to name names, but I am an astute observer. I see certain squads that actually FOLLOW the horde around as it goes form one country to another greatly exacerbating the situation.
Zazen
Totally agree.
As I said perhaps Rook/Bish should just hit Knits exclusively for a week.
Knits ENY'ed, Rooks + Bish = more than Knits, they'd soon start whining.
Just spend 1 week trying to reset Knits EXCLUSIVELY.
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Originally posted by Kev367th
Totally agree.
As I said perhaps Rook/Bish should just hit Knits exclusively for a week.
Knits ENY'ed, Rooks + Bish = more than Knits, they'd soon start whining.
Just spend 1 week trying to reset Knits EXCLUSIVELY.
Added this while you replied:
Just as MI says, it's still easier to vulch with the horde in a P40b than fight the vulching hordes in a Spit or Niki. The fair weather flyers will always abound I guess. I prefer the insanely loyal who just stay put, fair weather or foul, to the fair weather candy tulips that follow the horde around.
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Another plus to flying with the anti-horde: Stupid amounts of perks, and ridiculously cheap perk rides.
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I sure didn't see any Knights or Knight squadrons move to an under-manned team to improve arena gameplay balance.
that just aint true i switched ands am still flying as a bish
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Originally posted by hubsonfire
Another plus to flying with the anti-horde: Stupid amounts of perks, and ridiculously cheap perk rides.
When you have 20, 000 fighter perks, that means exactly NOTHING though. =( Like the ENY limiter the perk factor really only affects the noob, the person who can only fly low ENY rated planes with any proficiency, and the person who gets very few kills per unit time. All of those people are 'perk poor'. Anyone else likely has a huge resevoir of perks from years of playing.
Zazen
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I doubt if you will see the Bish and the Rooks co-operating to the extent mentioned in the above posts.
This would take the kind of teamwork and co-operation that you don't seem to be able to get on one side, let alone on two sides.
If you get a pack of Knits who outnumber thier opponents conrnered. Even if you have superior rides, the substantially larger force will probably beat the attack back. Stalin was famous for his quote that "quantity has a quality of it's own"
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I believe it was Saturday night when rooks had 130 on, bish had about 110 and knights had almost 200. The knights ENY was an average of about 31. Those of us on rooks had the perk planes really cheap and the bish must of had it cheaper.
If you want to be able to fly the planes you want, it is simple as CHANGE COUNTRIES. The numbers that knights have these days reminds me of being knight on a rook night where sometimes rooks had 300 people which was why the ENY limiter was put in. It is supposed to encourage people to even the numbers in order for them to fly the plane they want. As long as the ENY limiter is high against 1 country the other countries will have cheap perk planes in order to defend their country.
That Saturday our perk planes were cheap and the knights were at our 163 base. Those of 475th that were still on took tempests all night to defend our base because they were so cheap, and all the other rooks defending the base were also in perk planes. Its just allowing us to defend our base with the best planes against hordes at the cheapest prices.
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Gotta admit I like the ENY thing, the only thing worse than being horded is being horded by Spits, NIKs, P51Ds, and LA7s.
As someone mentioned, learn to fly something a tad more challenging. There are plenty of excellent aircraft in the mid range - albeit without the F16 Speed and 20MM firehose features you are used to, but still good aircraft that will hone skills.
The other day, I latched on to a P40s tail, when I finally discovered it was a P40b I broke off and let him go. Anyone willing to fly anything in the "over 45" ENY department in the MA deserves a break every once in a while.
Oh... someone in a Spit 9 flamed him a few seconds later though. :D
- SEAGOON
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Originally posted by Karnak
Your "happy medium" seems suspiciously arranged to equal "does not affect you at all." I can't imagine why that would be.
Oh wait, it is because you want your cake and to eat it too. You want to have the numbers and yet have unlimited access to La-7s, P-51Ds and P-47Ns.
As to limiting yourself to P-40s, that is your problem. The are many aircraft that are vastly superior to the P-40 that you choose to ignore. Look at Widwing's list, there are very good fighters on that list. The La-5FN is not, frankly, that much worse than the La-7. The Mosquito has all the firepower you could ever want. The C.205 is a great all round fighter. The Bf109G-2 climbs like a bat out of hell. Learn! Grow! Try!
Truth! ;)
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Originally posted by hubsonfire
Another plus to flying with the anti-horde: Stupid amounts of perks, and ridiculously cheap perk rides.
I'm sure you would get more perks if you actually flew with the outnumbered side. Flying on the Rookie side hardly counts as being one of the anti-hord...just sayin'.
ack-ack
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Myself, hub, Levi and a couple others have flown Bish a bit the last couple days. Maybe you didn't see us because we were 20k lower than you.
:D
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Akak's mad that I pwnd him in my La-7.
Actually, you just got lucky to find me as a Rook. I was bish last night, and again early today. However, with bishops numbers higher than I've seen in weeks, I'm rook again.
Anyone who doubts that I fly bish, or wishes to start a pursefight because they're starting to take themselves too seriously, feel free to check my stats. I'd post them, but I can't get them to display.
Warmest retards,
hub
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Originally posted by 101ABN
Whats the deal with the ENY lately? For the past 2 nights it seems that all that is available for the knights are hot air balloons and big wheels.. I understand if we are winning and all we have left to take are a small handfull of bases. We had about 3 bases more than the other 2 countries and there was an ENY of 36. I dont think that it should matter if we have more players online. Will there ever be a happy medium to this madness? I suggest that there be bigger maps so we are not fighting in a closet. With a bigger map you can drop this whole ENY abortion clinic. Or we can just be a bunch of carpet baggers and never call a country home. Geeze! :mad:
Funniest thing about all of the Bish and Knight WHINES, are they ARE THE ROOT CAUSE OF THIS IN THE FIRST PLACE. God grow some cajones Bish and Knights, you reap what you sew.
Karaya
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Originally posted by Masherbrum
Funniest thing about all of the Bish and Knight WHINES, are they ARE THE ROOT CAUSE OF THIS IN THE FIRST PLACE. God grow some cajones Bish and Knights, you reap what you sew.
Karaya
I think that the horse that we are beating here is quite dead. And no, we are not the cause of this problem.... i remember when the ENY started, the rooks were the mass of the MA because of all the new folks who never left the nest and went bish or knight. Ive read all replies and im going to go to the weaker of the 3. I had the tunnel vision of staying with my country, squad, and my VR friends.. I was rook several years ago and now ill go for bish. i do find it funny how when i cried about the eny, you all started the typical verbal assaults.. talking about vulching in the LA7... ha ha ha.. i do neither.... vulch or fly LA 7 (unless defending against buffs that are over head, which is very rare). LA7... good speed.. nice fire power.. but it consumes gas like i consume beer, not all that good in my opinion (the gas consumption not my beer, ha ha ). ok, the horse is now pulp.. :aok
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Originally posted by 101ABN
I think that the horse that we are beating here is quite dead. And no, we are not the cause of this problem.... i remember when the ENY started, the rooks were the mass of the MA because of all the new folks who never left the nest and went bish or knight. Ive read all replies and im going to go to the weaker of the 3. I had the tunnel vision of staying with my country, squad, and my VR friends.. I was rook several years ago and now ill go for bish. i do find it funny how when i cried about the eny, you all started the typical verbal assaults.. talking about vulching in the LA7... ha ha ha.. i do neither.... vulch or fly LA 7 (unless defending against buffs that are over head, which is very rare). LA7... good speed.. nice fire power.. but it consumes gas like i consume beer, not all that good in my opinion (the gas consumption not my beer, ha ha ). ok, the horse is now pulp.. :aok
It WAS the BISH AND KNIGHTS whines in this VERY SECTION of the BBS that started the ENY PERK LIMITER. I am the CO of the Cactus Air Force and we are a Rook Squadron. This squad will be Rook for a long time. I flew Bishop in AH2 Beta, and have gone Bish in the past for a spot evening.
The Rooks have "embraced" your precious ENY PERK LIMITER and have still reset you whiners, why? Rookland has the best sticks that play the game.
" I think that the horse that we are beating here is quite dead. "
So then why post this thread to begin with?
Karaya
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ENY is good, but a little too much, sometimes.
The point of providing the limit is to balance the 'horde' - a good idea IMHO, and I fly Knight all the time.
But there is a point (see nights when ENY Limit is above 35 or 40), when it gets out of hand. That's just silly, plain and simple.
The point of this thread was ENY, not Rook/Bish/Knight hammering, right? :aok
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My posts about ENY from the other thread I mentioned:
I've always been an advocate of using the same multipliers that effect perk point calculations for points as well. I posted this idea during the ENY debate, I don't think HT was receptive to it, I'd have to look up the old thread for his exact response. Get kills in harder planes, more points. Get kills while outnumbered, more points. This would give incentive for the presumably better players who play for Fighter Rank to fly for the underdog and fly early war planes more often, improving both variety and gameplay balance. The current ENY system doesn't really do that as the better players can fly a wide variety of planes across the entire ENY value spectrum with comparable efficiency.
I would also love to see a more descriminating system as you described where vulches and HO's were not rewarded. But, honestly I doubt that will be possible. There is no programming infrastructure in place to differentiate the 'How" of a kill just the 'Who' and the 'How Many'. I am not a programmer, but I am fairly certain the coding that would be required would outweigh any gameplay benefit derived, but what do I know, maybe it would be rather easy. We can dream.
And this:
Yup, exactly. If I were HT I would try modifying score the same as perks (by relative plane ENY value and Country ENY number multiplier). The worst possible effect it could have is no effect at all. Yet, it has the potential of bringing much greater diversity, variety and parity to the MA on many levels. All this while not disrupting gameplay for the average player at all. Those not concerned with their fighter rank can go about their business in ignorant bliss. Those concerned with their fighter rank have a few more tools in their set to potentially give themselves an edge in the heated Fighter Rank competition, those being, flying for the under-manned side and flying early war planes.
As Mandoble mentioned, fighter score is weighted heavily in favor of that tiny fraction of players who have the luxury of being able to fly 8+ hours a day, this would act as an equalizer to help mitigate that fact. For example, you can either fly 8+ hours a day in an La7 on the largest team for X score or you can fly 2-3 hours a day in a P40b on the under-manned side for the same X score. At the time I originally broached this concept with HiTech he was madly infatuated with the whole ENY limiting concept to the total exclusion of all other ideas, I suspect he's a bit more open-minded at this point. This concept could work along-side the ENY limiter in perfect harmony. This whole idea has always seemed Win-Win to me, but what do I know, I'm just a mind-less dweeb.
Formula would be something like:
Landing modifier(Damage X Relative Plane ENY) X Country Number ENY = Score
And Finally This:
It's largely because vulching is and always will remain the single best way to rack up both a purdy fighter score and alot of perks in the shortest possible time the ENY limiter is largely ineffective in and of itself. Regardless of the ENY penalty your team is afflicted with it is still more lucrative to play for the largest team and vulch in a 60 ENY P40B. Your only other option is to play for the gang-banged team and get vulched repeatedly in a 10 perk cost 262, not an appealing scenario. Guess what most prefer to do if not simply log-off ? (the ones getting gang-banged still log-off more than the ones being punished by the ENY by a large margin exacerbating the issue even further).
There is also the feeling on the ENY penalized team of why switch? I am giving the other team an advantage over me, it is in effect handicapping my team already. They would rather play with their friends and squadrons handicapped than the gang-banged team un-fettered by ENY. Noone likes to feel coerced into doing something, it's human nature. It's like the old anology of the man wearing the coat. The ENY limiter is like the wind trying to blow the coat off the man, but it's no use the man just grips his coat tightly around himself indignant to the wind. The sun, on the other hand, beams warmy thru the clouds, warming the man gently, he removes his coat willingly and happily. How about using the ENY calculation system and applying it as an incentive, rather than a punishment, by applying it to fighter point calculations this would be like the sun warming the coat off the man.
I'm not saying doing away with the ENY limiter completely, it is worthwhile in certain extreme circumstances (ie: I can't remember the last time Rooks staged an RJO). But, for the purpose of gently persuading players to balance themselves over time augmenting it with the same fighter point modifiers that apply to perks would work wonders.
The reason I believe it will work wonders is the fact that 20% of the Fighter pilots get 80% of the air to air kills a month. Of that top 20% a good many of them will be concerned with their fighter rank and would want to exploit any benefit to their scores they could via early war plane selection and playing for the underdogs. The ENY system alone isn't good for moving the top 20% that get 80% of the kills. It is, however, wonderfull at irritating and annoying the hell out of the less talented bottom 80% of players (paying customers) that only get 20% of the kills and therefore have a relatively small impact per capita on gameplay compared to their top 20% counter-parts. The bottom 80% are far more dramatically impacted by ENY limitations as they are likely not adept with multiple planes especially relatively poor performing planes. So, in terms of bang for your buck, moving that top 20% around with positive incentives would be far more effective than attempting to move a small portion of the bottom 80% around with punishment as the ENY system attempts but fails to do now.
Zazen
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Well then what about an ENY penalty CAP? Say never below either 35 or 40? I'd agree that one shouldn't be limited to planes worse than say a P40E or 109G6.
- SEAGOON
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Why are people bashing 40eny planes? Ki61 is good. G6 is great. G2 is too. 205 (and heck, 202 if you're adventurous) are great planes, the 205 being able to fight with the best. F4F and FM2 (can't recall the ENY on FM2) are both very good planes. All of the 40 level planes are VERY capable. Even the much cited P40E has 6x50cal (limited ammo, but still enough to get in close and kill).
I think what everybody is griping about is the lack of ord on these planes. They're actually forced to *gasp* take bombers, instead of "jabo" planes. What I've seen lately is a huge procession of P47s, F4us, P51s, or P38s (and every once in a while a B24 formation and/or a Fw190F8) whenever I see knits hitting a field. Now that's all well and good, sure. But the problem with the ENY limiter isn't the planes that it leaves open. It's the lack of heavy attack planes. People want to get in fast, they want to hit hard, and then they want to orbit for 40 minutes to fight off any other planes. Instead of having dedicated town levelers, dedicated fighter cover, and so forth. The problem is the coordination. If people coordinated/worked together better there'd be no ENY whines, because ENY still leaves a LOT of great planes available.
It's just that you can't up fully loaded F4us with rockets bombs and 2000 rounds of 50cal and get to the target at full throttle and 350mph then level the town in one pass and then turn fight any enemy you see. You have to pick one role and stick to it when ENY limiter kicks in, and that is where most people have a problem. They want to do it all. I, I don't care. I can't do it all. I'd fail miserably. I just try to do what I can. So even when ENY kicks in I don't care at all. Last time it kicked in and I was knit it was 37+. So I just picked a eny40 plane. It was fine. Couldn't run down 262s and la7s, but I pinged a few and got some assists. I wasn't trying to ground pound. I wasn't trying to goon. I wasn't trying to deack. I was just flying escort/cover. I've done 110 missions where I don't try to fight either. I try to deack, I bomb town, I strafe town, and I know the 110c4 can dogfight like a mofo but I stick to my job and things get done better.
EDIT: I'm still waiting for people to make a fish comment about the title of this thread....
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Krusty,
The 40 ENY Mosquito does a pretty nice job of being a multi-role aircraft, so they still even have that if they want it.
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But then there's the stigma of being known as "that guy that took the Moss to our town-flattening party" lol just kidding.
Personally I lump the Moss into the 110c category. It CAN fight, but when you take it out to attack, you should only attack.
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110c category? Eep. It is a better fighter than the 110G-2, though not by much. It is so far out of the 110c's class that....
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Originally posted by Krusty
EDIT: I'm still waiting for people to make a fish comment about the title of this thread....
I was waiting for it too. see what happens when you drink and type??? shame on me.. carp stink... walleyes rule. ha ha :lol
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Originally posted by MadSquirrel
The whole numbers game of our side only has 60 people and yours has 120 really doesn't amount to squat when there are 20 enemy planes, mostly perk rides, and a carpet of Tigers rolling onto a field while all you have to defend with are T-34s, M-16s and bi-planes and you only have 10 people there to defend because the other 110 are spread over all the other bases. And of course the enemy has porked every set of troops/Supplies and Ordenance 5 sectors back.
Oh I can hear all the "Ol Timers" laughing now. The same "Ol Timers" that aren't having to deal with ENY and the negitive aspects of it. And yes I know that those who get the advantage say it is "Only Fair", and the ones that get the brunt of it say it is "Unfair".
It all has to do with the amount of people playing on one side so, lets take a look.
NUMBERS GAME :
3 sides, 10 fields each.
After 24 hours of play. Both sides having advantage from time to time, evening comes and this is what happens.
60 Bish defending/Attacking from 5 Fields 12 Bish per field in Perk rides.
60 Rooks defending/Attacking from 5 Fields 12 Rooks per field in Perk rides.
120 Knights defending/Attacking from 20 fields, 6 Knights in wagons with slingshots.
/B]
Its not the plane but the guy IN it.I know plenty I wouldnt want to run into regardless of what their in and me in a perkmobile.Last night for example,a Seafire ran down my 109G10 when I zoomed down from the top of the fight and blew through the hoard.I looked back and this guy ran me right down.I had alt,e and a straight shot and he still got me.Anyone worth their weight in wine in a fighter isnt saying much about the eny because why?It doesnt affect them.There probebly STILL going to kill you.
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Originally posted by DrDea
Its not the plane but the guy IN it.I know plenty I wouldnt want to run into regardless of what their in and me in a perkmobile.Last night for example,a Seafire ran down my 109G10 when I zoomed down from the top of the fight and blew through the hoard.I looked back and this guy ran me right down.I had alt,e and a straight shot and he still got me.Anyone worth their weight in wine in a fighter isnt saying much about the eny because why?It doesnt affect them.There probebly STILL going to kill you.
Yup, the ENY limiter doesn't really effect the upper echelon players, just the noobs and the guys who need a Spit and an Indian guide to find a kill. Unfortunately, when those who are effected by the ENY move it makes little difference, they are largely ineffectual anyways. A successfull system would encourage the upper echelon players, who make a relatively huge impact per capita, to move.
Zazen
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When the rooks were being beaten down back about say 18 months to 2 years ago the entire Flying Circus up and joined up to help out.The only way this will sort out is when a few of the Senior Squads rotate to fill in the blanks.Unfortunatly people are so tied up in the "I only like these guys Im flying with"Mentality its hard to find those that will.I know plenty of people from flying diffrent sidesTheirs great people all over the place in that MA.
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Originally posted by Zazen13
Yup, the ENY limiter doesn't really effect the upper echelon players, just the noobs and the guys who need a Spit and an Indian guide to find a kill. Unfortunately, when those who are effected by the ENY move it makes little difference, they are largely ineffectual anyways. A successfull system would encourage the upper echelon players, who make a relatively huge impact per capita, to move.
Zazen
I think this is a good point... then the ENY limiter should be according to the individual... perhaps taking into account the amount of perk points left and the current rank in addition to what we have today...
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Dunno guys, I see "the experten" flying the uber aircraft just as much as the noobs - difference is that they are terrifying in them.
I think the guys who only generally fly the lower eny aircraft aren't always the best pilots, some just prefer underdog status. For instance, I do it just because I feel bad handing other pilots too many perk points all at once... :D
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Originally posted by FDutchmn
I think this is a good point... then the ENY limiter should be according to the individual... perhaps taking into account the amount of perk points left and the current rank in addition to what we have today...
The point is, it doesn't work on good players. Wether you selectively target them with it or not. It just doesn't work on them. They are not tied to a specific plane like a noob or the poor player. With a horde at his back an upper echelon fighter jock can whip total arse in a p40b...Good players are immune to the ENY.
Zazen
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The point is, it doesn't work on good players. Wether you selectively target them with it or not. It just doesn't work on them. They are not tied to a specific plane like a noob or the poor player. With a horde at his back an upper echelon fighter jock can whip total arse in a p40b...Good players are immune to the ENY.
Zazen
Thats true....You really cant limit the better pilots because they are going to do just great in about anything they fly.Rassum frassum..............
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I regularly fly the Ki-61, 38J, Hurricane, A-8, F-8, G-6, D-11, La5, Yak9U in the MA, the A-8 is now a 25ENY, I have yet to be UNABLE to fly one of these, with Rooks having been on the receiving end of a ENY Perk value Limiter.
Karaya
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Originally posted by Zazen13
The point is, it doesn't work on good players. Wether you selectively target them with it or not. It just doesn't work on them. They are not tied to a specific plane like a noob or the poor player. With a horde at his back an upper echelon fighter jock can whip total arse in a p40b...Good players are immune to the ENY.
Zazen
mmmm... whether a good player will do well in a high ENY plane or not, you are quite right.
the purpose of the the ENY limiter is to encourage people to change sides. couldn't the story be that the level of encouragement be different from player to player taking into account different factors? then the question becomes how do we differentiate a noob and a poor player from a veteran or a good player.
post edit...
just my thoughts... the point is whether we can make a system where the encouragement to change sides can be equally distributed as it is pointed out that this differs depending on the skill of the player. there will not be a perfect system and the present system does not seem to do its purpose that well as everyone hopes to. oh well... just some ramblings... carry on.
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Ya know untill people are willing to switch sides to improve the balance this is going to be a moot point.I just dont see the need to fly only with brand X.Their are SO many good people in this game that it makes no sence to limit ones self.It has to be about the game.No matter who your flying with.Expand your experience.Float around.Who knows,ya just might make some friends ya never knew were out there.:aok
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Originally posted by FDutchmn
mmmm... whether a good player will do well in a high ENY plane or not, you are quite right.
the purpose of the the ENY limiter is to encourage people to change sides. couldn't the story be that the level of encouragement be different from player to player taking into account different factors? then the question becomes how do we differentiate a noob and a poor player from a veteran or a good player.
post edit...
just my thoughts... the point is whether we can make a system where the encouragement to change sides can be equally distributed as it is pointed out that this differs depending on the skill of the player. there will not be a perfect system and the present system does not seem to do its purpose that well as everyone hopes to. oh well... just some ramblings... carry on.
Yea, read my posts above from the other thread, where I outline a system that specifically attracts upper echelon players to the underdog team. Rather than the ENY system that tries to handicap the lower echelon players off the advantaged team. The systems need not be mutually exclusive, just have both systems so you are burning the overpopulated country's candle at both ends, so to speak, increasing the overall balancing effect exponentially.
Zazen
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Originally posted by DrDea
The point is, it doesn't work on good players.
But you have to define what a "good" player is. I agree that ENY limiter will hardly effect guys like Drex or Leviathn. Those however that are "good" because they rely on the faster late war planes, the ENY will effect them because they won't by able to fly latest and greatest. You will see an effect in both their stats and scores.
Which I think is the main reason for the rather vocal opposition to this by a lot. Yes, there is a penalty on the new player but like everyone else he can switch to the less populated side. But the main opposition so far have been by those that pretty much exclusively rely on late year planes. Because they know that if they cannot fly their planes, their stats and score will suffer.
ack-ack
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Originally posted by Ack-Ack
But you have to define what a "good" player is. I agree that ENY limiter will hardly effect guys like Drex or Leviathn. Those however that are "good" because they rely on the faster late war planes, the ENY will effect them because they won't by able to fly latest and greatest. You will see an effect in both their stats and scores.
Which I think is the main reason for the rather vocal opposition to this by a lot. Yes, there is a penalty on the new player but like everyone else he can switch to the less populated side. But the main opposition so far have been by those that pretty much exclusively rely on late year planes. Because they know that if they cannot fly their planes, their stats and score will suffer.
ack-ack
To a small extent, but keep in mind, while they may not have their late model rides. They do presumably have a horde to mitigate that fact if they are facing a large ENY penalty. So, say they do not have their P47N and even numbers with enemy, they do have their P47D11 and a huge horde to fly with. Like I said before, the ENY does little except mean the overwhelmed team is getting vulched by La5's instead of La7's. In the end there's not much difference in the result.
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Zaz ...
You and other have a lot of good points.
La-5 instead of La-7 ... P47-D11 instead of P47-D40/N ... P38J/G instead of P38-L ... FM2 instead of SeaFire/F6F ... Ki-61 instead of Spit V/IX ... the list goes on. Overall, IMHO, the P47 is a more dangerous plane than the P-51 ... tons of ord and when it needs to get down and dirty ... FLAPS are a wonderfull thing ... Pony drivers would be pleasantly surprised flying a Jug.
ENY only effects those that won't jump and are myopic in what planes they will fly. Those that can fly a myriad of planes, and survive in them, ENY means squat.
Yes ENY is in place to TRY to balance numbers or offset the fighting power of the side that has the most numbers, but I also believe that it is a two-edged sword.
The other edge is that HT/HTC is also trying to get the myopic ones to try the "other" ride. I have seen many post from those who have "tried" the "other" ride and have relayed their ephiany.
Branch out people. ENY IS A GOOD THING !!!
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Originally posted by SlapShot
Zaz ...
You and other have a lot of good points.
La-5 instead of La-7 ... P47-D11 instead of P47-D40/N ... P38J/G instead of P38-L ... FM2 instead of SeaFire/F6F ... Ki-61 instead of Spit V/IX ... the list goes on. Overall, IMHO, the P47 is a more dangerous plane than the P-51 ... tons of ord and when it needs to get down and dirty ... FLAPS are a wonderfull thing ... Pony drivers would be pleasantly surprised flying a Jug.
ENY only effects those that won't jump and are myopic in what planes they will fly. Those that can fly a myriad of planes, and survive in them, ENY means squat.
Yes ENY is in place to TRY to balance numbers or offset the fighting power of the side that has the most numbers, but I also believe that it is a two-edged sword.
The other edge is that HT/HTC is also trying to get the myopic ones to try the "other" ride. I have seen many post from those who have "tried" the "other" ride and have relayed their ephiany.
Branch out people. ENY IS A GOOD THING !!!
Yup, Slappy, that's what it does. The problem is, if you check the performance of the people it's effecting, it makes little difference when and if they move. Their typical sheet is 25 kills in 100 hops with a 2% hit %. It wouldn't matter if they were flying a Sopwith Camel or an F15-Eagle, they aren't going to make any noticeable difference or impact beyond ammo sponge. They certainly aren't going to make any difference on a team that is already being overwhelmed numerically. The people that account for 80% of the MA kills are not motivated to move by the ENY limiter penalty. While they may have to fly a lower performance ride they do so within their numerical horde, negating any theoretical, potential balancing effect.
What the ENY limiter is really doing is giving the top pilots flying with the horde more baby seals to club. Sure the seals get to fly their SPits and Nikis, but the top pilots can club them just as efficiently in a La5 as they did in a La7.
Zazen