Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Sunchaser on December 12, 2001, 08:47:00 AM
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....if you are at all interested in WWII flightsims in general you really should take a look at IL2.
I know, I know, if it does not have 200 online it is not worth a look to many here who are only interested in MMOG type games.
If that is your deal no problem, go about your business.
I also know that IL2 has been discussed a lot here regarding all aspects of FM and this plane vs that plane etc.
I am posting just to say this is THE most amazing WWII flightsim I have ever seen, it works well with small numbers online and Oleg needs to sell lots of boxes so he can make an Africa and Med theater sim for us so go out and buy it, OK?
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I hardly have time for one sim in my busy life..let alone two.. :(
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I tried the DEMO. It was pretty much SSDD. I don't really care that much about eyecandy. FM and game play are what interest me.
Unfortunately the best sim I ever played ( the original AH FM. ), is long gone. I can understand why the went the easymode route, thats were the money is. Still it was big fun. If AH put out a box sim, with the old FM, I would buy that.
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Tried the IL2 demo. What a piece of crap.
The only good thing going for it is the collision model.. you can nip your wingtip with someone else's wingtip and you get damage.
And I like the smoke coming out when I turn on the engine. Aside from that, I put the FM on full realism and I get no different from what I used to fly in MS Combat Sim.
Its crap with nice graphics.
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I just d'loaded the demo a few days ago and tried it, but with the knowledge that the demo is very dated and the official release is very different in terms of FM and some other things. I'm reading the numerous boards dedicated to IL2 to get a better feeling for what is going on. FM wise, there will always be criticism, but it seems that they (Oleg and crew) are trying (like AH) to match flight data. I will wait and see before deciding, but I have several other box sims (EAW, SDOE, Panzer Elite, plus some jets) that still have some life in them due to their communities mods. May be hard to justify purchasing another one with big plans this coming year though.
To me, having a box sim is nice when there is a situation where logging into AH may not be a good idea. I don't alt-f4 and I don't like purposely augering or bailing if I need to get out pronto in AH (phone call, door bell, significant other, etc.). The box sim doesn't mind if you shut it down in the middle of action (weird huh? I guess I don't mind stepping out of the virtual world but do mind committing virtual harakiri).
IL2 seems to be another step in the right direction for sims. It doesn't have the massively multiplayer aspect of AH, but both have their own places in the sim market and both have their own unique aspects.
mauser
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TAC Demo and final release are two different things.
Kinda like AH's (very early) beta vs. 1.08 if you understand what I mean.
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btw same goes to Easymo.
Naah never mind... It's kinda telling blind men what rainbow looks = Why bother ;)
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let them miss out on one of the best flight sims ever made.
i dont know why the attitudes, people refuse to try something new, what rutabagas. its the same with everything.
its an AWESOME sim, if they even TRY to like it, they will, and they will also be supporting the flight sim genre, wich benefits HTC.
I understand that you guys really love AH. But please, open your eyes to other experiences. Dont think that being open minded and trying new things will automatically make you gay ;)
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"TAC Demo and final release are two different things."
Aint that idiotic? Market your finished product without updating the demo?
I dont buy anything unless I have a demo of it or see it with my own eyes. So far, the demo IS the de facto representation of IL2 for me. If they dont update it, they aint getting my money..because all I see is SWOTL flight model with a graphic uplift.
Interesting way to show your products dont you think?
It would be like MS demo'ing Win3.1 while marketing WINXP.
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38, sad but true - demo is not anywhere near as nice as full version.
I still dont play it much often simply because there isn't the numbers.
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I tried the DEMO. It was pretty much SSDD. I don't really care that much about eyecandy. FM and game play are what interest me.
The gameplay in coop missions blows any basecapturing nonsense any MMPOG has to offer.At least in my oppinion.
No one can force You to buy it,but you will sure miss out.As people figure out the full potential of mission builder and the community gets together, we will see squad vs squad tournaments never seen before.
Untill than...
(http://server3002.freeyellow.com/fhmen/images/il-2/GCS0026.jpg)
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Nice screenshot Caligula.
Oh, and I love Pulp Fiction ;)
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Looks great.... but I don't have much of a desire to fly LW or LVVS airplanes.
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I own it I played like 4 times offline 2 online
easy fm spins are all right
looks great
the lw campaign that came with it is boring as fek.
downloaded user made mission most sucked
downloaded a user made lw campaign it sucked.
online was just like eaw or janes a couple of guys warpin all over the place.........
pretty much bored with it.
as fer the "realistic" eng managemant I got radiator flaps mapped to my stick so its just another push of the button.
Gunnery is ok but i fly with just 109s 30mm in ah so I never fire unless I'm d200 anyway.
The biggest thing about gunnery for me getting my stick scaled just right.
AI planes fly like the planes from wb 2.xx offline. They can bleed all there e in an instance and gain it all back in a second.
even the friendly ai when you take off it just leaves you behind even if your level wep on and they are climbing.
Then when the ai sends up 2 lagg 3 you spend more time fighting your guys for the shot then the nme.........
I fire cannons and machine guns seperate and the 30mm in there is strange. Sometimes 3-5 hits to kill a fighter.........
but hell it looks great.......
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If you like WW2 flying sims, you really are missing out if you don't get IL2. It's well worth the price of admittance - which is cheap compared to most boxed games, $39.
I've been having a lot of fun with the full mission builder. It's fun scripting an entire war - armor, supply convoys, naval action, planes - and then just watching it happen. The mission builder, while klunky, lacking documentation, and non-intuitive, is REALLY powerful once you get the hang of it. It's going to be great once the more tactically gifted folks out there start churning out campaigns and missions.
Spitboy -SW-
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Rgr that Rip, tough finding time for everything.
I do like the online coop in IL2, sorta like doing squad stuff in the main without all the kiddies running around loose.
So Tac,
Does that mean ya might not
buy IL2?
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How would it run on my old P3 450 Vodoo 3?
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Originally posted by ygsmilo:
How would it run on my old P3 450 Vodoo 3?
time to upgrade :)
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i got the thing the first day it was out !!!!
but for some reasion i cant join play ot on line want but it just not happin :(
allways timed out or error of some kind or other ... wasted my mony i guess i post and post and get no help with ..so i gave up on it
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Best WWII sim ever, Period.
Demo FM has absolutely nothing to do with final version. I was extremely critical of Il-2 when the Demo was out, as the FM was seriously lacking and completely unrealistic.
Now is great.
(http://www.airtel.net/hosting/0003d/ebringas/Jabo1.jpg)
(http://www.airtel.net/hosting/0003d/ebringas/Jabo8.jpg)
(http://www.airtel.net/hosting/0003d/ebringas/JJabo.jpg)
(http://www.airtel.net/hosting/0003d/ebringas/JJabo5.jpg)
(http://www.airtel.net/hosting/0003d/ebringas/JJabo8.jpg)
In-built campaigns are not that great. But there is a dynamic campaign generator wich gives really great,and completely different each time, missions to fly.
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Pros:
Very nice graphics.
Damage model coincides with flight model and the visual representation is pretty good.
Flight model is pretty good, some planes you simply can't stall out (Yak-1B, Yak-7).
"Active" battlefields (if the mission is setup that way)- you can watch a tank battle unfold, watch artillery shell a town, watch soldiers run from vehicles when you strafe them, etc.
Weapon selection.
The small details that make you go "cool".
Current planes not flyable will be made flyable- hopefully with no extra charges.
Cons:
When playing over UBI the warping on a 56K modem is amazingly horrid- who was it that said this thing would challenge MMP games if it ever went MMP? The hell it will, the net code can barely handle 12 people from the viewpoint of someone who uses a 56K modem. It's a *LITTLE* better using direct connection, but it still won't touch MMP games. Never.
View system- completely sucks. No 6 view. yes, you will have a hard time looking behind you if you hold yourself up against your chair- but in a Cozy kit plane that has inclined seating and your strapped in like a race car driver, I can clearly see the propellor behind me (it's a pusher plane). So please, spare me the "it's more realistic". It ain't, it would be using 3D glasses but that just ain't in the cards yet.
Campaign- What the hell? Looks like they just half-assed that section. I'd expect more from a game that's single player and when the netcode is okay at best.
Overall it's a good game, the graphics and damage model make it something for other games to consider.... but the rest of it, well it certainly isn't a "well rounded" game- more stacked in the eye candy department than anything else.
-SW
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drill,
are you on a dsl modem? i hear alot of guys with external dsl modems have trouble with online.
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The 30mm in IL2 is very strange.
It can take pretty much every bomber type plane down in one or two hits.
But it often takes more than that to kill a fighter.
Plus its rate of fire in IL2 is 40% lower than real life weapon.
It has 60rds (yes I counted many times) which last 10secs (yes I timed it many times) of firing in IL2, the real MK108 fired 600rpm which means 60 rounds should last only 6 seconds. If you do the math its clear to see that the IL2 MK108 rate of fire is 40% lower than the real weapon. AH has this right, IL doesnt. IL2 30mm rof should be increased, so that the 60 rounds run out in 6 seconds and not in 10 seconds.
Anyone know where I can contact Oleg about this?
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You can try this forum (http://forums.ubi.com/messages/overview.asp?name=us_il2sturmovik_gd), it's hosted by UBI and is pretty much the central place that Oleg will answer questions and stuff.
-SW
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If you point that out there, they will eat you alive. Because to them, Oleg Maddox is god, and he can do no wrong.
If his 30mm lasts 10 seconds and the history books say 6, then the books are wrong.
At least thats how it works in the simhq.com forums.
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My 300a celeron sneers at your eyecandy, and wonders where all the dogfighters have gone.
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Yep Animal I agree as I allready learned my lesson about giving game suggestions/crticizms on a certain BBS, ;) ,so I wasnt thinking about posting it on any IL2 BBS. Id rather correspond with Oleg directly if possible. Anyone have his email?
[ 12-12-2001: Message edited by: GRUNHERZ ]
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Overall it's a good game, the graphics and damage model make it something for other games to consider.... but the rest of it, well it certainly isn't a "well rounded" game- more stacked in the eye candy department than anything else.
-SW
From the descriptions I've heard so far, it sounds to me kinda similar in reception to Janes WWII Fighters when it was released.
I was impressed by the Janes damage model, graphics and detailing; but the flight model sucked, etc.
This sounds like Janes with a reasonably decent flight model and no western front birds...
..which I guess is unfair and gratuitous since I havent bought the sim yet. I'll wait and decide when USAAF iorn becomes available.
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in my opinion its silly to limit yourself to 1 countrys planes. im proud to be anamerican but it doesnt mean i wont put a red star on my plane in aa video game lol.
the FMS are not bad. they arent perfect either but they are believable. gunnery is good. grphics are awesome. coop missions are fun. and theres no monthly fee. i would buy it if i were you..
besides the p39 is in the game and its flyable... its an american bird :)
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Originally posted by SWulfe:
Cons:
When playing over UBI the warping on a 56K modem is amazingly horrid- who was it that said this thing would challenge MMP games if it ever went MMP? The hell it will, the net code can barely handle 12 people from the viewpoint of someone who uses a 56K modem. It's a *LITTLE* better using direct connection, but it still won't touch MMP games. Never.
Just have tried online play a couple times. I'm connected via a 56k modem (ADSL soon :)). Both times I was in, were between 8 and 14 ppl online, and connection was smooth. Dunno with more people. not tested it.-
It's not AH's arenas wich hundreds of ppl, but for no montly free, I'd say it beats AH's H2H hands down (of course, it SHOULD be expected to do it :))
View system- completely sucks. No 6 view. yes, you will have a hard time looking behind you if you hold yourself up against your chair- but in a Cozy kit plane that has inclined seating and your strapped in like a race car driver, I can clearly see the propellor behind me (it's a pusher plane). So please, spare me the "it's more realistic". It ain't, it would be using 3D glasses but that just ain't in the cards yet.
Well, gotta disagree here. AH has way more incredible views than Il-2. True that Il-2 does not allow you to "move" your head out of the positions it has built in. But in WWII the pilots had attachments, and they couldn't put half their head thru the cockpit plexiglass (and that happens in certain AH cockpits :)).
No six view is OK and fine. You STILL can see your six, just its not a direct view...and it recreates much better the problems of limited 6 views in some planes:
View of a 109G6/late
(http://www.airtel.net/hosting/0003d/ebringas/view1.jpg)
View of a LaGG-3.
(http://www.airtel.net/hosting/0003d/ebringas/view2.jpg)
Notice that your "six" is into the visual field. Just not in the MIDDLE of it. No linda blairs.
Could be better, but to say it "sucks" is go too far, IMO.
Campaign- What the hell? Looks like they just half-assed that section. I'd expect more from a game that's single player and when the netcode is okay at best. [/b]
HAve you tried the dynamic campaign designer?. Very nice IMO :)
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You need to bank and slide your plane to check 6.It does suck,but so did back around 1943.I think it`s correct the way it is.
I aggree with grunherz on the cannon issue,
and I really don`t like how all the tracers are sincronized.They should be popping out randomly even if it`s every 5th round on every belt,especially on planes where the gun shoots trough the propeller.
I don`t care much for the offline campaign,I made lot better missions myself in the editor for coop play.
If You have have problems with the ubi gamesevice (and You will guaranteed) just get Hyperlobby.That`s where most the action`s at.
Planeset will be larger,and if things go as I`d like them to go,they will do a North Africa-Mediterraen version of the game.
There all You US patriots will have your ugly USAAF rides,set in the most fun part of the airwar,when things were balanced.No super-planes on each side yet.
Nice screenshot Caligula.
Oh, and I love Pulp Fiction
Animal...You`ve made my eyes water :cool:
(http://server3002.freeyellow.com/fhmen/images/il-2/GCS0009.jpg)
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I just bought it yesterday and I must admit I'm not too impressed.
Visually, it's amazing, gunnery seems good, but the rest is very mediocre. (Havent played with the full mission editor yet).
Flightmodel seems turned down, so it's very hard to stall and most of the planes are horribly directionally unstable.
Damage model, while visually very nice, also seems simplified.
Someone on AGW mentioned that IL2 was designed for online play, which I really hope is the case. The canned campaign system certainly isnt worth shouting about.
Daff
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Originally posted by GRUNHERZ:
Yep Animal I agree as I allready learned my lesson about giving game suggestions/crticizms on a certain BBS, ;) ,so I wasnt thinking about posting it on any IL2 BBS. Id rather correspond with Oleg directly if possible. Anyone have his email?
The rabid response from IL-2's sycophants is no different then you see here, or for that matter on any corporate message board of camp followers. However, I do find the general literacy about WWII aircraft, flight dynamics and weaponry of the era to be much better here. Perhaps that's the result of an older crowd who have been flying MMP sims for years, as compared to the box shopping crowd that tend to come and go.
You'll find Oleg's personal email listed under his profile on any of the responses he makes on message boards. He's a very gracious gentleman who leaves his ego at the door and I've found he replies very quickly. I think he's done a marvelous job in helping all of us keep computer software flight simulations visible in the marketplace, so we don’t lose a lot of our player base to the plethora of "first person shooters" that seem dominate the entertainment landscape today.
Oleg Maddox [mado@1c.ru]
Regards,
Badger
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RAM, I'm not comparing it to AH's view system.
Of course, AH does a much better job. You get way more information in real life flying a plane than you can ever get in a simulation.
For example, take your Lagg-3 screenshot. Notice the glass behind the headrest? They didn't put it there to make it look like a racing plane, you should (but can't in this game) be able to lean your body more and look through all of that glass behind the head rest. Yes, it's possible. I've flown in a number of planes, including gliders, and these FIXED views simply can't touch the way AH does it. Giving the user the ability to scroll his view point through each of the snap views gives you more information and is closer to actually flying a real plane since you can move your torso, head, neck and even use your arms to hold onto a part of the cockpit so you can further adjust your body.
If AH placed limits on how far beyond a certain point you can move your head, (I'm not talking a few key presses, but about 3/4s of the way each view can be moved right now) then AH would win hands down on how to properly give a real world view, peripheral vision and in simulating a pilot's ability to move his body to look around.
As is, everything(with one exception) is a far cry from giving a perfect representation of how much a pilot can actually see in the real world- AH is that exception.
-SW
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agreed sw that ah view system is better, except also agree that head movements are a bit too liberal in older planes... i think the new planes like mossie and f4u-1 are pretty good. on the other hand some planes like me109 are pretty liberal imo.