Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Ripsnort on August 17, 2005, 09:07:49 AM
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Role models are difficult to direct for kids. They tend to choose their own, even though we as parents try to be one, or direct the role models that we feel they should look at.
Whether professional athletes like it or not, they are indeed in the limelight, and will be looked upon favorably (or not..) by fans..
So, with that in mind, talking with quite a few fathers during this football season, its apparent most of the kids have their favorite football player. Terrell 'I'm the CENTER OF THE UNIVERSE!" Owens came up in a discussion last nite...Most parents I spoke with detested him for his selfishness and tacky behavior on the field when scoring touch downs (whatever happened to the class acts like Sanders for Detroit, or "Sweetness"?)
So the question put forth: Would you encourage or discourage your kids if they just absolutely adored Terrell Owens?
Me personally, I would probably just hold my opinion to myself if my sons got all goosey about Terrell out of kindness. But I would probably point out players who's hard work ethic and good sportsmanship get my vote.
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As an avid Philadelphia fan, and overall Football obsessor...I have a little insight to this. I am not a parent though, so, FWIW:
Discourage his behavior, flashiness, attitude. Encourage his work ethic, dedication to success and determination. If you haven't already, pick up his biography. Good read, in all honesty.
The guy is a complete jerk, selfish, egotistical: a HORRIBLE role model for a youngin.
On the other hand the guy works his butt off, always was determined, and is an incredible athlete: a good role model for a youngin looking to start playing sports liek football.
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TO is a whining, crybaby. What's even funnier is that people are shocked that he is pulling the crap that he is pulling now. Players like him are a disgrace to the game. I hate the Cowboys with a passion, but loved it when they cleaned his clock with his "antics".
Karaya
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On the field versus off the field? To me thats the underlying factor.
Most kids have no idea what T.O. is all about other than being a player on Madden and then seeing him catching touchdown passes from McNabb. My son can't stand him because he has seen the crap that T.O. does on television. Especially with his no comment workout in his driveway the other day.
As a complete role model I would rather my son learn about the guys like Barry Sanders or Robert Smith who left the game and still could have gone out and done it for a few more years but chose to step away and give back to their community and family. Also some of the best role models these kids can have are the linemen and back ups who work football camps in the offseason. They give back infinetely more than they recieve and as a result kids get interested in other aspects of the game instead of just running back, quaterback and wide reciever. One that my son attempts to emulate each day in practice is a very good friend of mine (Chris Gray) who plays for Seattle. Its people like him that our sons should look toward for inspiration on how to play the game.
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Originally posted by Casper1
On the other hand the guy works his butt off, always was determined, and is an incredible athlete: a good role model for a youngin looking to start playing sports liek football.
Yes, we witnessed his work ethic...by intentionally causing a scene so he could miss two weeks of football camp while "getting a tan" (His words, not mine) in the Bahamas.
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IMHO, the "professional athlete as a role model" card is overplayed.
If an athlete wants to use his/her celebrity to become a positive influence for children, more power to him, but being a professional athlete doesn't mean they have to.
I don't know when or how it happened, but some time in the past two or three decades, a group of people did a lot of hand wringing and decided that professional athletes had to be enviable examples for our children. I think it's a load of crap.
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I have a bottle of Dom set aside for the day TO blows out his knee. Hopefully it's against the Cowboys and it happens on the star.
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pro sports a role model?
might as well make the hollyweird stars role models for your kids... they live in about the same reality as the millionaire pro sport "ath-eilte"
is he goes from a private jet to a stretch hummer - best not to make him a "role" model - you are setting your kid up to fail in so many ways...
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Originally posted by Sandman
IMHO, the "professional athlete as a role model" card is overplayed.
If an athlete wants to use his/her celebrity to become a positive influence for children, more power to him, but being a professional athlete doesn't mean they have to.
I don't know when or how it happened, but some time in the past two or three decades, a group of people did a lot of hand wringing and decided that professional athletes had to be enviable examples for our children. I think it's a load of crap.
Well, television certainly helps. Children mimick what they see. Thus, the "role model" is born. Blame the children....in psychology its known as learned behavior.
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Originally posted by Eagler
pro sports a role model?
might as well make the hollyweird stars role models for your kids... they live in about the same reality as the millionaire pro sport "ath-eilte"
is he goes from a private jet to a stretch hummer - best not to make him a "role" model - you are setting your kid up to fail in so many ways...
I think you missed the first paragraph of my initial post:
Role models are difficult to direct for kids. They tend to choose their own, even though we as parents try to be one, or direct the role models that we feel they should look at.
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Originally posted by Sandman
IMHO, the "professional athlete as a role model" card is overplayed.
If an athlete wants to use his/her celebrity to become a positive influence for children, more power to him, but being a professional athlete doesn't mean they have to.
I don't know when or how it happened, but some time in the past two or three decades, a group of people did a lot of hand wringing and decided that professional athletes had to be enviable examples for our children. I think it's a load of crap.
Sandman,
Are you someone who the fathers of young boys on this board would want to encourage and support in attempting to model themselves?
American athletes have always been role models to young impressionable boys. This has not been a recent thing in this country unless you are talking about the players and their 30 year decent into garbage conduct.
Young boys since the begining of homo sapien have always tried to emulate the conduct of the males around them who are the fastest, strongest, and most successful. Problem with this human mode of learning through imitation, if the male being emulated is suck A## sack of stuff, your son is in danger of becomeing one to.
I have to wonder that more parents disagree with your assessment, and understand their young boys are going to look on these athelets as the pinicle of maleness in our homo sapien society, and become low lifes like them.
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Originally posted by Sandman
IMHO, the "professional athlete as a role model" card is overplayed.
If an athlete wants to use his/her celebrity to become a positive influence for children, more power to him, but being a professional athlete doesn't mean they have to.
I don't know when or how it happened, but some time in the past two or three decades, a group of people did a lot of hand wringing and decided that professional athletes had to be enviable examples for our children. I think it's a load of crap.
"When you were kids, you all admired the Champion mable shooter, the fastest runner, the toughest boxer" -GS Patton Jr.
More then just the last decade or two.
Kids choose their role models whether people like it or not.
Thoughout time Athletes and other people considered great and/or noble at what they do have been admire and chosen by children to be their role models.
Some people may have decided athetes should be enviable examples BECAUSE they know children will choose them and look to them as role models.
Its not a load of crap. Its the way it is.
Can a person or player live up to the pedastal that children put them up on? Given the way the media reports it every time one of these guys farts these days. Probably not.
Used to be a time when the media would keep some things to themselves. Read Art Donovans book "Fatso" and you will find out just how pure guys like Don Shula,Tom Landry and Dan Reeves were in their playing days. These icons were no angels.
But the media didnt report it.
On the other hand these guys also didnt run off at the mouth in public acting like a spoiled attention hungry brat in dire need of a few welts on their butts either.
So to a large extent these guys like TO and Moss bring alot of the bad stuff upon themselves.
Which is a shame because if they just learned to shut up and play they could keep everyone happy and still get all the attention they crave and still acheive damn near godlike status with kids. Without behaving like an Anal Oriface in the process.
and lets face it. all these antics are nothing more then a way to draw attention to themselves and nothing more
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role models: lance armstrong, bobby orr, jackie robinson, wayne gretsky, magic johnson, teddy bruschi
you cant put TO in the same book as these guys whatsooever. bruschi is a great modern day football example - hes his own agent and he took less money then he could have made anywhere else to stay at home with the patriots. even now that he's out for the season i believe he's working with the new guys at camp.
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Originally posted by DREDIOCK
Some people may have decided athetes should be enviable examples BECAUSE they know children will choose them and look to them as role models.
Some children, but I think it's not the majority. Most find their role models at home, at school, on the field... they don't look for them on television.
Hell... I'd bet that if you went to the local highschool or junior high and did a poll asking if students could identify Terrell Owens or Bam Margera most would correctly identify Bam.
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how can he get a tan:confused:
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I dont put much stock in athletes. How many of us can go through High School...be given an education because of your sports skills, continue on through to the pros, given tons of money and all the trappings, all while doing the thing you like best out of life for a job.
Id focus more on the doctor, the contractor competing in a dog eat dog world, feeding his kids but working his butt off. The teacher(good ones) and the soldiers who protect us abroad, the police and firemen who protect us near.
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Originally posted by Eagler
pro sports a role model?
might as well make the hollyweird stars role models for your kids... they live in about the same reality as the millionaire pro sport "ath-eilte"
is he goes from a private jet to a stretch hummer - best not to make him a "role" model - you are setting your kid up to fail in so many ways...
I agree with Eagler. Oh man, I think I just threw up a little in my mouth. Nothing good can come of this. :(
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Originally posted by Viper17
how can he get a tan:confused:
I could tell a really really funny but 100% true story along similar lines.
Unfortunately the only way I could word it wouldnt be allowed here
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Originally posted by Sandman
Some children, but I think it's not the majority. Most find their role models at home, at school, on the field... they don't look for them on television.
Hell... I'd bet that if you went to the local highschool or junior high and did a poll asking if students could identify Terrell Owens or Bam Margera most would correctly identify Bam.
Perhaps not the majority but certainly an awful lot.
Thing is they look at atheletes,rap/hiphop stars and other people as heros. Alot of kids see these people acting linke animals and they start thinking its cool to act that way. So in that sense they are certainly role models.
Look at the way alot of kids act these days. True. not all and maybe not the majority. But an awful lot act as they see these people act.
Which is simply Awful
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Originally posted by DREDIOCK
I could tell a really really funny but 100% true story along similar lines.
Unfortunately the only way I could word it wouldnt be allowed here
Type it up and PM it to me.
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In reply to the original question: If I had a son that hero worshipped ANYONE to do with the NFL, it would be a quick trip to the woodshed for a little reeducation session.
I don`t think it has so much to do with the kids picking up on this by themselves as it is the Dad`s who are armchair quarterbacks and let their lives basicaly revolve around a bunch of overpaid, useless individuals playing a kid`s game for millions a year. Kids sees this. If it excites ole Dad so much , then it`s good enough for me type deal.
I equate the NFL with WWF. A big circus act for millions.
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Originally posted by Jackal1
In reply to the original question: If I had a son that hero worshipped ANYONE to do with the NFL, it would be a quick trip to the woodshed for a little reeducation session.
I don`t think it has so much to do with the kids picking up on this by themselves as it is the Dad`s who are armchair quarterbacks and let their lives basicaly revolve around a bunch of overpaid, useless individuals playing a kid`s game for millions a year. Kids sees this. If it excites ole Dad so much , then it`s good enough for me type deal.
I equate the NFL with WWF. A big circus act for millions.
My philosophy is not to TELL the kids what to do, I'm here to GUIDE them, and hope they make the best decisions based on my guidence. Woodsheds are not the way to get the results that I want for my children.
In our case, it was Madden 2004, 2005. We tried to discourage his request to play football, even tried to scare him alittle with possible injuries,...didn't matter. He wanted to play. But not solely because of the computer game, but because of his personality...he's an alpha-male type personality. Loves rough play, and now he doesn't get in trouble for knocking another kid down. ;)
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To each his own I guess, but IMHO we are seeing the results of the PC, hands off, time out raised brats now and it`s not pretty.
I`ve been dealing with some of them on a nightly basis. Viscious, dangerous, theiving creatures with no respect for anyone, laws or property.
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So what would you do about these "PC, hands off, time out raised brats"?
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Originally posted by Skydancer
So what would you do about these "PC, hands off, time out raised brats"?
Come now... everyone knows that kids were better behaved and there was less crime back in the good ole days when we were free to beat our kids into submission.
It's NOSTALGIA! Kids aren't any more defiant today than before. The difference is there's just more of them today and we are much more proficient at passing along all the bad news. IMHO, the "bad apples" per capita is unchanged.
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Originally posted by Sandman
Come now... everyone knows that kids were better behaved and there was less crime back in the good ole days when we were free to beat our kids into submission.
I work with quite a few kids who's parents still do that and they are the ones with most problems and who cause most problems for those around them!!!
(As an aside how come when I click quote the above happens unlike the neater versions you other guys are getting?)
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Originally posted by Skydancer
I work with quite a few kids who's parents still do that and they are the ones with most problems and who cause most problems for those around them!!! [/B]
Imagine my complete and total lack of surprise. ;)
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Originally posted by Sandman
Imagine my complete and total lack of surprise. ;)
yeah it works! Worked out the quote thing at long last :lol
I know Sandman. Sad when you see the effects for the kids and those living on the same estates as them, every day though.:(
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Originally posted by Jackal1
To each his own I guess, but IMHO we are seeing the results of the PC, hands off, time out raised brats now and it`s not pretty.
I`ve been dealing with some of them on a nightly basis. Viscious, dangerous, theiving creatures with no respect for anyone, laws or property.
Jackel,
What is the environment of the nightly basis and what is the demographic back ground of your viscious citizens? I suspect illegal immigration is about to displace the historical and environmental conditions for your groups visciousness.
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Originally posted by Jackal1
I equate the NFL with WWF. A big circus act for millions.
Well at least the NFL is trying to clean up the sport from steroids...Can you imagine senate hearings for "Professional Wrestling?"...eek:
If your kid idolizes some WWF freak...it would say to me I(Daddy) am not role model enough for him..
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Originally posted by bustr
Jackel,
What is the environment of the nightly basis and what is the demographic back ground of your viscious citizens? I suspect illegal immigration is about to displace the historical and environmental conditions for your groups visciousness.
They come from various areas, with various backgrounds.
Mostly white. In this case illegal immigration does not play a part.
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Originally posted by SirLoin
If your kid idolizes some WWF freak...it would say to me I(Daddy) am not role model enough for him..
I totaly agree. That was the point I made earlier concerning equating the NFL and the WWF.
My kids are raised and on their own now. I was not a perfect Dad and my kids were not perfect. We both made mistakes. It`s the way of life.
What I did do was do things that included them such as fishing, camping, hunting, trips, etc. In these settings I got more insight from my kids about how they felt about different things, their likes dislikes, etc.
We had our probs , as everyone does, but at least we were able to communicate with each other.
When my kids done something wrong, and they did, they knew they were doing something wrong. They were taught right from wrong.
By taking the path to doing something wrong they also knew that they took the responsibility of the punishment that went along with it.
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Originally posted by Jackal1
I totaly agree. That was the point I made earlier concerning equating the NFL and the WWF.
My kids are raised and on their own now. I was not a perfect Dad and my kids were not perfect. We both made mistakes. It`s the way of life.
What I did do was do things that included them such as fishing, camping, hunting, trips, etc. In these settings I got more insight from my kids about how they felt about different things, their likes dislikes, etc.
We had our probs , as everyone does, but at least we were able to communicate with each other.
When my kids done something wrong, and they did, they knew they were doing something wrong. They were taught right from wrong.
By taking the path to doing something wrong they also knew that they took the responsibility of the punishment that went along with it.
So, judging from the topic of the post, you would have punished your children had they been involved personally in sports, and happened to like a particular professional athlete?
FWIW, I do all the above with my kids and more, including participating in sports with them (Coaching, etc.) however I would not want to control their likes and dislikes unless I deemed it a danger to them.
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Originally posted by Ripsnort
So, judging from the topic of the post, you would have punished your children had they been involved personally in sports, and happened to like a particular professional athlete?
I don`t know exactly where you got the idea I would punish my kids for being involved in sports. Like I said earlier about the NFL.......they are playing a KIDS game.
My kids were involved in sports and did very well.
If they liked a particular professional athlete I certainly had no problem with that. There is a lot of professional sports out there besides the circus called the NFL , beleive it or not.
FWIW, I do all the above with my kids and more, including participating in sports with them (Coaching, etc.) however I would not want to control their likes and dislikes unless I deemed it a danger to them.
Nobody is going to control a kid`s likes and dislikes, no matter how much you try.
You can only give and show them that there are many choices to choose from by example and involvment.
Sounds to me like that is exactly what you are doing.
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Originally posted by Jackal1
I don`t know exactly where you got the idea I would punish my kids for being involved in sports.
My question was actually two questions based on your first reply, "and happened to like a particular professional athlete?"
Originally posted by Jackal1
In reply to the original question: If I had a son that hero worshipped ANYONE to do with the NFL, it would be a quick trip to the woodshed for a little reeducation session.
I'm not fond of the NFL for role models, there are rare cases where ones are found. Again, I have no control over their likes and dislikes. Overall, I think we agree though on our philosophical approaches to parenthood.
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Awww I see. My bad.
Yea, I think we are on the same line.
Good luck BTW and enjoy them while you can. They are grown and gone before you know it.
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Originally posted by Jackal1
Awww I see. My bad.
Yea, I think we are on the same line.
Good luck BTW and enjoy them while you can. They are grown and gone before you know it.
Thanks, I'm absorbing the moment with that in mind, and capturing every moment on either stills or video.
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Originally posted by rpm
I have a bottle of Dom set aside for the day TO blows out his knee. Hopefully it's against the Cowboys and it happens on the star.
Roy came close last year, eh? :)
culero