Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Godzilla on August 21, 2005, 12:53:49 AM
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the universe and all matter cannot be explained by science. Some people would rather believe that it all happened by chance rather than by intelligent design.
I wonder if they believe a 1965 Camaro could have just popped into existance, or elvolved from some bacteria or from thin air (define air) as well, with no intelligent design.
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I'd believe it popped into place because someone was trying to run a scam. Since they didnt make a Camaro until '67.
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While some of us believe that there isn't enough data yet to form a conclusion, and other's believe that an intelligence caused it without being able to demostrate it.
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IN... and while i'm here...
abortions... obviously god's will, errr umm i mean intelligent design...
with intelligent design you have removed free will from the equation.
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Originally posted by Godzilla
I wonder if they believe a 1965 Camaro could have just popped into existance, or elvolved from some bacteria or from thin air (define air) as well, with no intelligent design.
I'm going to hate myself in the morning for saying this..but..
For God's sake.. it's a Chevy.. there can't be any intelligent design!!
Ok.. maybe the Corvette..but only until they went to the fastback.
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Originally posted by Godzilla
I wonder if they believe a 1965 Camaro could have just popped into existance, or elvolved from some bacteria or from thin air (define air) as well, with no intelligent design.
so if it just "popped into existence" did it come as spam or an ordinary pop-up?:confused:
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Originally posted by Godzilla
the universe and all matter cannot be explained by science. Some people would rather believe that it all happened by chance rather than by intelligent design.
I wonder if they believe a 1965 Camaro could have just popped into existance, or elvolved from some bacteria or from thin air (define air) as well, with no intelligent design.
Science can't explain everything 100%....yet. Maybe never, maybe someday. Yet God's existence hasn't been proven to date.
Ironic how those that want 100% verifiable scientific proof of the beginning of the universe won't furnish any proof at all of God creating the universe, let alone proof of God's existence at all.
My mind is wide open, prove to me that God exists and you'll have this atheist changing sides real quick. I'm interested in the absolute truth.
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Ok i got i mind blowing question.
Who created God?
And who created him or it.
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Originally posted by BUG_EAF322
Ok i got i mind blowing question.
Who created God?
And who created him or it.
I think god's father (who was a machine that came from the 12th dimension) tripped on an energy string. Well, HE says it was an accident...pfft.
On whether quantum foam fell from his divine beer, well, the jury is still out.
Daniel
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Originally posted by Shane
with intelligent design you have removed free will from the equation.
This is not true.
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Originally posted by Godzilla
I wonder if they believe a 1965 Camaro could have just popped into existance, or elvolved from some bacteria or from thin air (define air) as well, with no intelligent design.
I'd believe it popped into place because someone was trying to run a scam. Since they didnt make a Camaro until '67.
PWNED!!! :aok
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Originally posted by SaburoS
My mind is wide open, prove to me that God exists and you'll have this atheist changing sides real quick. I'm interested in the absolute truth.
the only way to explain this is answered prayers from GOD!
(http://www.megnut.com/images/red_sox_win_globe.jpeg)
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A 65 camaro would be cool... maybe with at 409... they didn't make em till 67 tho.
lazs
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Dammmm chittt chittt... all my life I had Camero's....
'68 350 pure white with a baby blue pin stripe, 4 bolt main....
'69 327 repainted metalic blue, dropped in a LT1 from a '78 Vette..
I wanna '65 Camero!!!! I wanna, I wanna!!!!
:D
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Originally posted by BUG_EAF322
Ok i got i mind blowing question.
Who created God?
And who created him or it.
Al Gore
:(
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originally posted by Godzillathe universe and all matter cannot be explained by science. Some people would rather believe that it all happened by chance rather than by intelligent design.
And the rest of us understand that the current level of our total knowledge of the universe is at the very best, incomplete. The base assumption in your statement is that because we don't yet know something means we never will. That is just sad.
If you choose to believe in ID and it helps you live your life, that's great. Just don't try to palm it off as "scientific fact" until you've got the proof that it is fact. An absence of evidence, contrary or otherwise, isn't proof of anything.
In a scientific sense ID is at best an interesting question.
asw
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Maybe they didn't make the Camaro in '65 but they did make these:
(http://www.vex.net/~guru/corvair/ad65/ad65show.jpg)
According to Ralph Nader, they are proof of unintellegent design.
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Originally posted by AWMac
I wanna '65 Camero!!!! I wanna, I wanna!!!!
:D
1965 Camaro prototype.
You are healed! :)
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/22_1124634957_camaro1.jpg)
As far the subject........ I have never understood how anyone could walk outside, see the trees, water, hills, mountains, etc and believe it was all just a big accident.
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Some believe that all of life and the universe just happened by chance, yet would never believe a 1965 camaro could exist without some intelligent design. Interesting.
That's what amazes me about people who refuse to be open to even the possibility that a higher intelligence created matter and the universe.
To me, it's almost rediculous to beleive that everything that exists in our universe, which obeys laws and has order in every aspect, all just happened by chance.
And not only by chance, but to perfection and with order.
Maybe one day we will send a space probe to some distant planet and it will send back pictures of a skyscraper in the middle of nowhere.......having just appeared by chance.
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Don't study Quantum Theory Godzilla...
Everything is chance.
"God does not play dice" -- Albert Einstein, in his initial unacceptance of the uncertainty principle.
"God does play dice with the universe. All the evidence points to him being an inveterate gambler, who throws the dice on every possible occasion." -- Stephen Hawking
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Originally posted by Jackal1
1965 Camaro prototype.
You are healed! :)
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/22_1124634957_camaro1.jpg)
Sweet Jackal1 Front end side looks like '69 Camero, rear end more like a '71.
One good thing about Camero's / Firebirds were that the quarter panels and doors were interchangable.
Smoked many Firebirds with my Camero's.
Light to Light, Night after Night!
Mac
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This is looking more and more like a troll. If not, it is looking like it will get out of hand shortly. Show some restraint folks.
Originally posted by Godzilla
Some believe that all of life and the universe just happened by chance, yet would never believe a 1965 camaro could exist without some intelligent design. Interesting.
You first mistake. "the universe just happened by chance". Regardless of your reasons/beliefs, we already know enough to know this is not true.
And who said a 65 Camaro would have been an intelligient design? Troll mark one.
That's what amazes me about people who refuse to be open to even the possibility that a higher intelligence created matter and the universe.
If no one questioned anything we would still be in the dark ages. People can choose to remain ignorant, or they can question everything. You offer no proof of your claim and deride others for not agreeing with you. Troll mark two.
To me, it's almost rediculous to beleive that everything that exists in our universe, which obeys laws and has order in every aspect, all just happened by chance.
You are clearly stating an opinion here. No troll mark for this.
And not only by chance, but to perfection and with order.
The universe is, and has been, in complete chaos. There is no perfection in it and order does not exist. A small sample: Our Moon is departing its orbit which will end life on this planet. Not exactly perfect, and utterly chaotic.
Troll mark number three.
Maybe one day we will send a space probe to some distant planet and it will send back pictures of a skyscraper in the middle of nowhere.......having just appeared by chance.
Skyscrapers are made by man. They have never appeared by chance. Troll mark number four.
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"not only is the universe stranger than we imagine , it is stranger than we can imagine." - Sir Arthur Eddington
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Originally posted by StarOfAfrica2
I'd believe it popped into place because someone was trying to run a scam. Since they didnt make a Camaro until '67.
:rofl OUTSTANDING RESPONCE!:aok
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Originally posted by SaburoS
Science can't explain everything 100%....yet. Maybe never, maybe someday. Yet God's existence hasn't been proven to date.
Ironic how those that want 100% verifiable scientific proof of the beginning of the universe won't furnish any proof at all of God creating the universe, let alone proof of God's existence at all.
My mind is wide open, prove to me that God exists and you'll have this atheist changing sides real quick. I'm interested in the absolute truth.
That just gotcha kicked outta the 'Atheists Union'. Welcome to the AH Agnostics, Local 220; motto: 'If yah can't prove it, it's just an opinion'. :aok
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nope... you couldn't buy a camaro till the 67 model year.
lazs
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INconceiveble...
:D
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The problem, if you can call it that, is that there are many in the Christian/Jewish religions that feel that the Bible should be taken verbatim and that the Earth was created in exactly 7 days.. Ok, 6 days and a block party.
Seems to me that many folks .. or, rather, many large groups of folks, do not actually see the Bible for what it is.
The Bible is a guide on how to live, and where those ideas came from.
Here's a little something I wrote up for our pastor, maybe you'll get my meaning...
I can't help but picture God sitting down with man to teach him of where he came from. For some reason, the atmosphere of Monty Python would seem to be appropriate:
God: Man?
Man: Yes, my Lord?
God: Write this down.
Man: Yes sir!
God: Be nice to one another.
Man: Very good, sir. And?
God: And what?
Man: Well, sir... it's all good to say for us to be nice to one another.. but.. where did we come from?
God: I created you.
Man: Oh.. good, that's good. From what?
God: From the earth.
Man: Oh.. good! Um.. now.. where did the earth come from?
God: What?
Man: The earth. Where did the ground you made us from, come from?
God: What difference does it make? Just be nice to each other.
Man: I understand that, sir.. but you know that people will want to know the answer.
God: Where you came from means nothing. Where the earth and sky came from means nothing. Where the stars and galaxies came from mean nothing. Be nice to each other.
Man: Yes, yes, I've got the 'be nice to each other' part. But, what did you make us from? Where did this earth come from?
God: I created it, too. But that means nothing! Be nice to each other!
Man: You created it too? Good! When?
God: What?
Man: No sir. When?
God: When what?
Man: When did you create earth?
God: WHAT DIFFERENCE DOES IT MAKE?? Be nice to each other.
Man: People are going to want to know, you know. Oh.. and what's a 'galaxy'.?
God: Ok, ok. Look, a long time ago I put all the mass in the universe..
Man: 'Universe?'
God: and.. ahem.. the Universe is everything. All the space around you.
Man: 'Space?'
God: um.. space is absence of matter.. all the black stuff you see at night.
Man: 'matter'?
God: Matter..yes, mass. Molecules and atoms and things.
Man: Molecule? Atom? mass?
God.. um..er.. sigh. Ok.. here's what happened.
Man: Oh good! The TRUTH..
God: It took me a whole week to create the heavens, sky, light, dark, good, evil and on the 7th day I watched football.
Man: 'football'?
God: Oh good grief. let's just call it 'Sabbath'.
.. and the rest is, sorta, history...
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So is the question how did the universe start?
Honestly i don't really care how the universe started i am here. The whole GOD thing that he started it or the monkeys or whatever. It all depends on your beliefs. If you are one of those spiritual folks then yeah god made it. If you are a realist then monkeys evolved. Or the big bang or whatever. Either way it is the song that doesn't end. But it sure is fun argueINg about it. till we get skuzzified. :p
P.S. LMAO APDrone :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :aok
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Originally posted by Hangtime
That just gotcha kicked outta the 'Atheists Union'. Welcome to the AH Agnostics, Local 220; motto: 'If yah can't prove it, it's just an opinion'. :aok
Hangtime,
God does not exist for me. I'll die knowing that.
My response is to those that believe that God does exist.
Who am I to tell them that God doesn't exist for them?
Kind of like "Virginia, does Santa Clause exist?"
Agnostics beleive that there is a God (or the possibility there of), but has no direct influences on us.
Atheists believe that there is no God and therefore no divine intervention. No heaven or hell either.
I am an Atheist. Just say that I'm also respectful of other people's beliefs as well
;)
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Skuzzy, I'm not trying to deride anyone if they don't believe what I believe, I'm just saying that I find it amazing that some people could actually believe matter could pop into existance and things pop into existance out of nothing, yet would not even consider that an a higher intelligence might be behind the design of the universe.
And the universe does have order. Everything in the universe obeys unchangable laws. The moon leaving earths orbit is an example of it following laws, not random patterns.
My example of a skyscraper was a perfect example of how that is not considered possible......yet some people think something as complex as life itself could happen by chance. Why does it matter if a skyscraper is man made or not? There is a school of thought that some point to which says that, given enough time, anything can pop into existance from nothing.
The subject and the philosphy interest me very much. I am not saying that people who do not believe as I do are wrong, Im just stating how I view it and stateing that, to me......I'm amazed at what people will believe to the point of being very illogical, yet the universe and all matter are perfectly logical and obey laws.
Nothing happens outside of the laws of physics........that we know of. The universe and everything in it has perfect order.
If the univserse did not happen by chance, then what caused it to exist? Where did matter come from? It's not a troll, I find it interesting.
Thanks for giving me a chance and this thread a chance. I feel that people are being resonable and found the camero comments to be funny. Hopefully it stays within the bounderies.
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Originally posted by BUG_EAF322
Ok i got i mind blowing question.
Who created God?
And who created him or it.
Thats a good question. It's almost the same as asking where matter came from and what created it. It's like the chicked before the egg thing
It's something man will never have an answer to, in my opinion.
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Originally posted by SaburoS
Science can't explain everything 100%....yet. Maybe never, maybe someday. Yet God's existence hasn't been proven to date.
Ironic how those that want 100% verifiable scientific proof of the beginning of the universe won't furnish any proof at all of God creating the universe, let alone proof of God's existence at all.
My mind is wide open, prove to me that God exists and you'll have this atheist changing sides real quick. I'm interested in the absolute truth.
I'm not saying that there is proof of God. I am saying that there is no logical reason why a superior intelligence should be ruled out, in my opinion. And I know that science and man will never know all the answers. That's what makes this interesting to me. The overwelming amount of things we will never know, but can only postulate about.
I just happen to feel that everything in the universe and all of life and the balance required for it all to work, plus the laws that everything obeys could not have just evolved by chance or out of the big bang. That's not even asking where matter came from itself.
I kind of like the way Einstein thought about it. He basically did not believe in a personal god who cares about human beings, but he sure did believe that a higher intelligence was behind the universe. It's like the more he knew, the more he was convinced that it could not have all happened at random.
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The egg came first.
There I answered it.
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hard boiled or runny?
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runny but still in the shell.
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subaru... I believe that an agnostic is someone who sits in the middle... someone who says "maybe there is a god and maybe not".
For instance.... I am an agnostic when it comes to scientific theory.... I allways say... "maybe.... maybe not"
lazs
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Having seen what I have of the world, I'd say he's right. The Egg came first. And sir, that Egg was CRACKED.
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It is a (I hate to say it) scientifically verifiable, stone cold fact.
The egg came first.
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"Accident" and "chance" are not the same thing. Saying that life on Earth was created by accident is incorrect. An accident is unintended, while chance is merely something that may or may not happen. We can't even be sure of whether life on earth was a "small" chance or not--life may well be common throughout the universe. It may not have been chance at all...Life may be an inevitability on earth-like planets and such planets might not be uncommon. Or, life may be a fluke. With current technology, we have no way of knowing.
As for evolution...Darwin-style evolution based on spurts of random mutation is increasingly being shown to be incorrect. Nonetheless, evolution happens at least to some extent, although its a gradual process. Look at the different races of people. No matter whether you believe in strict evolution OR biblical creation, it's not even in dispute that all present-day humans come from a fairly small number of ancestors. In a relatively short time (thousands of years) we have changed and grown quite distinct from each other. Is it REALLY such a stretch to think that in a longer period of time--millions of years--we might keep growing different until we could no longer reproduce with each other? I think not. Sauropod dinosaurs continued getting larger and larger over a long period of time--we DO have the fossil record to show that form of evolution happening. Evolution happens, at least in some forms. You can't even belive in the Bible without believing in some degree of evolution.
Creationists argue that you don't have to believe in strict Biblical Creation to believe in Intelligent Design. That is true. It is equally true that you don't need to completely agree with Darwin to realize that evolution happens. At the basic level, believing in Intelligent Design doesn't mean you can't believe in evolution either. Just because a process happens doesn't mean there isn't something "intelligent" (as opposed to nature) guiding that process.
ID proponents often ask "Where did matter come from?". A reply is often along the lines of "Then where did God come from?". If someome is prepared to accept that God simply exists, then why can't he also accept that perhaps matter/energy always existed. If you can't accept that possibly energy/matter always existed, then you can't logically just assume that some OTHER force (God) always existed, either. No matter what belief you subscribe to, there MUST be some sort of starting point.
If there IS some sort of intelligence guiding the process of creation, then it isn't intelligence in the human sense. All known forms of "real" intelligence are forms of life. All life is born, needs food to sustain itself, and eventually dies. Something with the power to guide the formation of the universe couldn't even be alive in that sense of the word. To believe in Intelligent Design, then, we must do one of two things. We must either be willing to "bend" the traditional meaning of "intelligence", or we must believe in some sort of higher level of Existance. The latter is pure conjecture. If you're willing to do the former, then perhaps the natural order itself is that "intelligence".
It all boils down to this--we just don't know. It makes for good dicsussion, though.
J_A_B
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No fools the Rooster came first...
No Rooster, No Egg, No Egg, No Chicken, No Chicken, No Rooster...
Chit...wait a minute...dammm Brain Cramp!
Mac?
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Scientists could tell you how the universe and stuff was created. A good way to start might be to read this.
(http://images-eu.amazon.com/images/P/0552997048.02.LZZZZZZZ.jpg)
Science for non scientists. And pretty funny at times too.
APDrone
You should write scripts that was realy good! :aok
As for who created God? Man did isn't that obvious! :lol
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What bothers me most is that the 'theory' of Evolution is not taught as a 'theory' at all, but as fact. Similar to the 'Theory of Flight', Evolution is one explanation which can be measured and verified for the most part. However, it is not complete and has some significant gaps. Similarly, Quantum mechanics is an answer to observed paradoxical pheomenon which requires statistical analysis.
What I find interesting, and I must admit I am a bit of a physics geek, is String Theory and the requirement for multiple coexisting dimensions as part of the theory. These multiple dimensions can coexist along with ours. Who's to say that that, under certain circumstances, matter can not pass between one dimension and another? It gives a whole new perspective on matter, gravity, energy, and time. Of course, that (in my opinion) still requires some sort of master designer who I call God.
Regards,
Malta
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Originally posted by Godzilla
Skuzzy, I'm not trying to deride anyone if they don't believe what I believe, I'm just saying that I find it amazing that some people could actually believe matter could pop into existance and things pop into existance out of nothing, yet would not even consider that an a higher intelligence might be behind the design of the universe.
Umm, OK, so say there is this god who created the universe.
What did he create it with?