Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Ripsnort on December 08, 2000, 02:37:00 PM
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Subject: GUN REFRESHER COURSE
a. An armed man is a citizen. An unarmed man is a subject.
b. A gun in the hand is better than a cop on the phone.
c. Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface.
d. Gun control is not about guns; it's about control.
e. If guns are outlawed, can we use swords?
f. If guns cause crime, then pencils cause misspelled words.
g. Free men do not ask permission to bear arms.
h. If you don't know your rights, you don't have any.
i. Those who trade liberty for security have neither.
j. The United States Constitution © 1791. All Rights Reserved.
k. What part of "shall not be infringed" do you not understand?
l. The Second Amendment is in place in case they ignore the others.
m. 64,999,987 firearm owners killed no one yesterday.
n. Guns only have two enemies: Rust and Politicians.
o. Know guns, Know peace and safety. No guns, no peace nor safety.
p. You don't shoot to kill; you shoot to stay alive.
q. 911 - government sponsored Dial a Prayer.
r. Assault is a behavior, not a device.
s. Criminals love gun control - it makes their jobs safer.
t. If Guns cause Crime, then Matches cause Arson.
u. Only a government that is afraid of its citizens tries to control them.
v. You only have the rights you are willing to fight for.
w. Enforce the "gun control laws" in place, don't make more.
x. When you remove the people's right to bear arms, you create slaves.
y. The American Revolution would never have happened with Gun Control.
z. "....a government by the people, for the people....."
[This message has been edited by Ripsnort (edited 12-08-2000).]
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AMEN BROTHER!
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Nathan "NATEDOG" Mathieu
Art Director
HiTech Creations
-=HELLFIRE SQUAD=-
".... And on the eighth day, God created beer. "
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AWWWW YEAHHHH
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Preach on!
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LJK_Raubvogel
LuftJägerKorps (http://www.luftjagerkorps.com)
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Jayzus.
I can say the same and exchange gun with "biological weapon".
Or spoon.
<kicks Ripsnort (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif))
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StSanta, unarmed AND a citizen. Radical concept, but then again, I ain't a dumb idiotic gun toting evangelical capitalist opressor yank with triple standards and a conspiracy theory neatly stuck in my head to 'splain all the odd weirdo things (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif).
DIE allied opportunist!
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StSanta
9./JG 54 "Grünherz"
(http://www.geocities.com/nirfurian/stSanta.jpg)
[This message has been edited by StSanta (edited 12-08-2000).]
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AWSOME POINT!
Ill add onother one for ya,
when a drunk driver kills someone, they dont arrest the company that made the car.
I carry a gun with me 100% of the time, either in my car or one me (unless in bank or other forbidden place) When me and my girlfriend move to austin, Im buying her a pistol aswell.
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Today was John Lennon's death anniversary (sp?).
I only can guess that he would've sighed, and felt quite sad reading this...
Not that he is one of my models, and sure I dont share most of his beliefs-mostly,I guess,because my generation is a completely different one than his'- but I always admired his love for peace.
Arms serve for one purpose-killing people.
If no arms, no people killed by them---->more peace.
Hey I live in a country where,to have a firearm, you need a licence that you only get it after very SERIOUS investigation and mental health tests.
And I am sure that the streets of Spanish' cities are more secure than in USA. One only needs to take a look into the statistics to know that.
<covers himself>
Flame on (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/frown.gif)
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Just a list of glib sound bites - hardly a set of convincing arguments about how a gun actually benefits anyone (society or the individual).
a. An armed man is a citizen. An unarmed man is a subject.
If I lived in a country where you needed a gun to get any respect or hold basic, common, civil rights (which I think is a definition of 'citizen'), I think I'd be booking myself on the next flight out of there.
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i have herd of a real nice phenominon in countries which have outlawed citizens owning firearms It goes as follows.
You are stiing at home with your wife and child watching TV, its about 3pm or so on saturday. Suddenly a couple of people come busing into your houseand uh ho they have guns...but guns are illegal right.hehe only if you follow the law. So of course these folks know you have no way to protect yourself so they walk right into your house in the middle of they day and they dont care if your home or not.. your a nice free law abiding citizen who has no right to protect your self. So you know, they rob ya and take all yer stuff, then they make you watch them rape your wife and kill your child before they kill you. if ya only had yer pops shotgun or something you would have had at least fighting chance. But then thats not right is it..guns are against the law so now you will die.
yea RAM i bet john lennon would be sad, i bet he would wish he would have had a gun.
Then point is that the people that really shouldent have guns will ALWAYS have them. to outlaw guns is to simply tip the scales further in the direction of the criminals. I thing the true advantage of having legal firearms for citizens is that when some amazinhunk is about to try to mug you he will think twice as the image of you sticking a 45 in his face flashes through his mind.
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Following your argument, all european countries' streets should be little less than battlefields where criminals do what they want and there is a huge insecurity on the streets. And all of us would be scared of going unarmed to the streets.
You know what?. It isnt that way, and it isnt by far. Look at the statistics.
Heck, I have yet to find **one** guy in Spain who says that if he is unarmed on the streets of his home city at 3a.m. he feels migthy unsecure.
I have heard (read) that same argument dozens of times coming from american citizens...and if you wonder why, its easy to find the reason.
[This message has been edited by RAM (edited 12-08-2000).]
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I know some countries think that repressing its citizens into safty is the way to go. just because your safe in a cage doesent mean it sthe right place to be.
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RAM this isnt about some other country, that may work fine in some countires, but not here. i have been to spain once and i LOVED it, i also went to Italy and Venics smelt lika ass, my point is that every where there are different and needs different rules and standards. America need guns, Europiens dont need guns because ..not because there are not guns....possibley because all the criminal would-be types have mad cow disease. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Oh yes, one need only look at soccer (football) matches in Europe to know that they are SO MUCH more civilized and non-violent than we are. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/rolleyes.gif)
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LJK_Raubvogel
LuftJägerKorps (http://www.luftjagerkorps.com)
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Wobble, dowding has a good point.
Check our crime stats - they're way lower than what the US has. Our murder rate is also quite low compared to the US. Drive bys are virtually unheard of.
Our government i the third least corrupt in the world, with two other northern European countries beating us by a narrow margin.
We got our politicians close to the ground - our multiparty system with no stupid money being invested by special interests and grassroot movement ensures our security.
In short, we don't *need* guns to be citizens. That argument is just a silly emotional one that on the surface looks good, but has little underneath.
I can imagine that a gun adds a sense of power and security to one's life.
You wanna live in a country where you have to strap on to feel safe - fine by all means, do so. But please, don't *insult* the people living in nations with different philosophies, calling them subjects. You know, our royalty lost their powers a good while ago.
Most of our laws here are quite sensitive. We may not have a right to own a gun for no particular reason; it's regarded here as in just about every nation except the US as a public health issue. So is owning biological weapons for that matter. In other areas, there's far more leeway in terms of the law - you'd have to be a bigtime pot importer to go to jail for it. Just an example.
So, before you start calling non gun people subjects, do your research, you gun toting fanatic person with a murdeopus intent who needs a gun to replace a lost manhood (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
Heheheh.
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StSanta
9./JG 54 "Grünherz"
(http://www.geocities.com/nirfurian/stSanta.jpg)
[This message has been edited by StSanta (edited 12-09-2000).]
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Raubvogel - I've been going to football matches since I was 5 years old, including England internationals, and I've never once seen violent behaviour on the terraces (where people sit). I'm sure violence happens occasionally, but the situation now is far, far better than it used to be.
Go to certain pubs after games and it might be a little different, but then violence due to alcohol happens day in day out across the world.
Wobble - and how many times does the situation you describe happen in each European country, every year? Do you have any statistics to back up your argument?
StSanta also makes a good point. I was reading about the Danish governmental system, and it sounds very similar to our own. It also shows that socialism and a constitutional monarchy are not mutually exclusive (which is also the case here in the UK).
Queen's speeches are not even written by her anymore - they are written by the prevailing government at the time.
I personally consider myself a citizen in one of the strongest democracies in the world, with one of the best systems of election and representation.
But I'd like to see reform - one day we will have no monarchy, but I'd like us to have a president, not in the US style but in the German style. Can anyone (off the top of their heads not resorting to a web search) name the president of Germany? No? Well that's the way it should be; the president should should just exist to conduct inconsequential state activities (which all country's have to go through). The real power should and is in the hands of the Prime Minister.
BTW, I was thinking of the pervasion of guns in Hollywood films - how many have huge amounts of guns (in one form or another) present throughout the film? Is this a good thing?
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Dowding, in the US guns = g00d, nudity = bad (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
*I AM THE GERMAN PRESIDENT*
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
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StSanta
9./JG 54 "Grünherz"
(http://www.geocities.com/nirfurian/stSanta.jpg)
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Originally posted by StSanta:
But please, don't *insult* the people living in nations with different philosophies,
diddly you santa, that's all you do around here is insult yanks. Why should any point you make be taken seriously.
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Yup Udie, that sums up my thoughts pretty well. I respect ya in the arenas Santa, but this ain't the arenas mate.
Now for crime stats, after I do some flying I'll go dig up some of (I think it was) Toad's posts. I seem to recall one thread where, while overall total numbers made the US look pretty bad, but when the percentages were per 100,000 people it dinnae look near as bad, and the US actually looked better than some places.
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Dowding what's your position on Northern Ireland?
[This message has been edited by Torque (edited 12-09-2000).]
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Aw udie, when I do it it's clearly tounge in cheek (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif).
If I wanted to seriously insult yanks, i wouldn't call them "murderous gun toting evagelical capitalists".
I'd say they were "out of touch with reality, ethnocentric, an egoistic singleminded superficial people with a cross between open naeivity and downright cynicism and a tendency to violence that is detrimental to the rest of the world".
That's how I insult people when my mind is angry. When I am just irritated, usually something more subtle comes out.
So please bear with me for my bb ramblings - they are just that. No pots = no AH, and someone has to take the blame.
And CH, being a yank company, actually dared to send me USED pots - even had soldiering iron on. So, there I have a target (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif).
If French people dominated this board, I'd be on their case for the fun of it (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif).
Yay, I am a total pain in the ass. Sometimes I step over the line. Well, *I* have to live with it - you just get the top of the iceberg (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif).
Next time I guess I must include <this is just a joke></this is just a joke> headers (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif).
Come on, smile and be happy. I do my best to. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif).
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StSanta
9./JG 54 "Grünherz"
(http://www.geocities.com/nirfurian/stSanta.jpg)
[This message has been edited by StSanta (edited 12-09-2000).]
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I've done some head scratchin' on this gun issue and I've come to the conclusion that people should be allowed to have them. I don't like people poking their nose in my business so how can I justify poking my nose in theirs?
This isn't saying I support guns, especially handguns, I don't. Maybe I'm being idealistic but I don't consider any society "civilized" until such things as weapons are eliminated.
The root cause of this issue is fear. Until folks drop this illusion that there's someone out to get them around every street corner, the guns will stay.
I don't need a weapon myself. I realize fully that no bullet will ever touch me unless I desire the experience.
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cave, our crime stats are still much below yours. I recall the thread and looked it up since I dinnae want to put my foot in my mouth as I usually do (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif).
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StSanta
9./JG 54 "Grünherz"
(http://www.geocities.com/nirfurian/stSanta.jpg)
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Torque - I'm surprised you even know where Northern Island is. Well done. Those night classes in basic geography must be really paying off. How's the class in English language coming along? Let me know if I can be of any help.
Udie, it's pretty damned obvious that Santa is very much tongue in cheek when it comes to alot of his posts.
<S> Santa, I don't think my post would have been as calm and considered as yours was, considering the provocation. Your standard of English is amazing - do you have English parents or do all Danes have the same language skills?
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Oh I see you flame me and avoid the issue.
Yes the tutoring is coming along fine thx. I will have her home by nightfall. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
Tis easy to pass judgements on others yet hard to look in your own backyard.
[This message has been edited by Torque (edited 12-09-2000).]
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Torque - you make me laugh. At least you keep me guessing; the last thing I expected from you was a request for a serious discussion.
Wasn't it the same Torque who called me a 'dorknut' for no real reason, and also (quite inexplicably) said that my use of Dowding's name was a disgrace?
I will discuss NI, but since you brought the subject up, please explain how the situation there relates to gun control? By the way, you are allowed to use more than four lines.
Cheers buddy.
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hey thanks dowding <blushes>
I've just had an interest in English since I figured out one could learn by error and most people spoke it (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif). It's a very peculiar language with lots of subtleties I'll never quite understand - one of the aspects that make it interesting. And all those funny idioms! Gotta love it! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif).
Yah, most of my post here are made for the fun of it. I'm serious enough in real life to be a bore at times (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif).
<S!>
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StSanta
9./JG 54 "Grünherz"
(http://www.geocities.com/nirfurian/stSanta.jpg)
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No problem mate, but I'm starting to think you aren't actually a Dane afterall. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
French and German are languages I picked up fairly quickly (can't remember much of it now - too much alcohol in the years since school). But the Scandinavian languages seem really alien to me (even though alot of people over here probably have some Scand. blood in them). From what age do you learn English in Denmark?
In Britain we start learning French aged 11 (far too late IMO).
How do you say 'Hello' in Danish? And 'Hello love, fancy a shag?'. Might come in useful when I move to Denmark to pull all the gorgeous women you're supposed to have over there. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
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MY damn point is that if you outlawed citizens owning handguns do you actually think the criminals would not have them anymore?! To think that outlawing handguns would stop the criminals having them is the biggest pile of stupid toejam i have ever heard. The only thing it would change is the fact that now the criminals will know that they are safe and the citizens would know they are not! So to all you folks that think that robbing law abiding citizens of ther rights will make them safe, you are Idiots. And for all you folks who keep squeaking about crime rates and toejam about the U.S. well stay the hell out!, nobody forces you to come or live here, so if ya dont like it PISS OFF!
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Yet another gem from the man who gave us, and I quote,
"...its real nice when an american gets kicked out of an american made game on an american service by squeaky gooks." [sic]
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LOL!!
<RAM holds Dowding's hand up>
Winner by Knock Out.... Dowding!!
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Dowding
"hi" is "hej" and about that other line try walking up to a very cute blonde with a huge muscular boyfriend and say "hejsa søde, hvad så, skal vi bolle?"
That'll arouse the crowds one way or the other (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif).
I started learning Enligsh in third or fourth grade while living in Sweden. Had some German from 7th to 9th grade but most of it is blissfully forgotten (hearing kirin & co talking to each other makes me regret not paying attention in class (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)).
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StSanta
9./JG 54 "Grünherz"
(http://www.geocities.com/nirfurian/stSanta.jpg)
[This message has been edited by StSanta (edited 12-09-2000).]
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Everyone rid your minds of the fact that guns, or any other material object directs the way US society behaves itself. That would be 'pushing the rope' so to speak. Every country has it's own personality and its own behavior. Comparing the relative 'goodness' and 'proper methods' of one society over another is a complete waste of time. If you want to understand the core of the problem you have to become well aquainted with that country over time from the inside out. I don't see how anyone could make any honest predictions from the other side of the globe.
That said, the problem with living here in the USA is that it has seen great success exercising it's 20th Century corporate system, and as a result has metamorphosized into an obtusely capitalistic society. This is a direct result of a Supreme Court ruling in the late 1800's that declared (for some completely mindless reason) that corporate entities would from that day forward be considered 'natural persons' rather than ficticious entities that were at the mercy of the community's decisions. At that point in time, corporations gained all the freedoms of a living person WITHOUT the fear of being encarcerated for wrong doing - in effect being granted greater freedoms than the people themselves with the added bonus of moral immunity. Since they don't actually exist in the material world, there is not intrinsic desire to work in a fashion that supports the basic necessity for the survival of the living being. Because of this, the resulting detremental impact on society and the environment goes unchecked, and in comparison is dwarfed by the rewards of high profits, booming economy, percieved success, and resulting material gain. Add on top of that the tremendous amount of capital created by corporations (and the fact that all that concentrated money buys votes & favor in this country) and you have the recipe for societal disaster. Like it or not, the people of the US are no longer citizens - we are consumers and our portrayed value in this society both socially and politically goes no farther than that.
Corporate power rules this country's political circles, and a very small group of individuals and their corporations rule all of the newspapers and networks that allow the population to know the facts and state of their society. Rather than trying to limit the mindset of society, corporations offer us a selection of lifestyles to live, and we claw tooth & nail to live up to their expectations. We aren't necessarily left with the feeling that we are being denied freedoms so there is no conscious need for complaint or uprising - on the contrary we are offered a number of 'designed styles' of freedom in which to choose from and express ourselves through, knowing well that living outside these parameters put us 'out' in the eyes of society. Corporate goods have come to define who we are (or who we work our whole lives to portray ourselves to be). American society now sells its soul everyday to have their 'Nike', their 'B&W', their corner office, and the successful image and lifestyle those items allow us to portray. Popular stereotypes rule our understanding of what is 'cool', and what is socially unworthy. Every female I know (to one degree or another) has an ongoing complex about their weight due directly to rampant commercialization of the popular starved image that must be matched in order for them to feel attractive.
By definition of our new way of life, all of the people in this country are trying to live The Dream, and ironically the VAST majority of them, regardless of their wealth and oppulance are to some degree unhappy, suffering from some type of depression, lack of fulfillment, or some other malaise. What's the corporate response? They offer us all kinds of cool things like Prozac, Ritalin and Valium as mood brighteners, completely ignoring the fact that there is an inherent flaw in the foundation of this new 20th Century way of governing ourselves. Have a sense of loss, hollowness or unfulfillment? - then go shopping, buy more product, boost perceived prosperity, and try feverishly to fill the void inside. Of course, most feel as long as they portray such an image then they honestly become the image. The line between the two has become blurred - at least that's the status quo. This society is completely distracted by corporate deluge of product and lifestyle structuring, and is for all soulful intents and purposes naturally lost from the living moment. For the majority of us the depth of our history and other profound elements of our understanding of self are lost in the daily purge of sound bytes, 'snippits', 4 minute songs, and other short attention span programming - all of it filtered through corporate opinion and sway before it reaches us. We find our safety in routines and rarely if ever break loose in a fit of true spontinaety.
Television being the ruling mediator of lifestyle, you will NEVER see an advertisement that portrays their sponsors in a bad light. You will NEVER see so called 'un'advertisements whose soul purpose is to wake you from your couch potato stupor. You will NEVER see advertisements that try to roust you away from the relentless onslaught of commercial sales and ploys put out by television, movies, radio, internet, vidieo games, etc. What you will get is what networks call 'hype' and 'jolts'. The average movie or television show has a average of five 'jolts' a minute to reset your attention toward the screen. MTV has an average count of 60 jolts per minute! How many people can sit quitely for 30 minutes without being interrupted by their internal clock telling them "there's something else you're supposed to be doing"?
Now, to bring this full circle to the gun rights thing. There is no doubt in my mind that corporate stereotypes play a huge part in the behavior of the troubled youth (and adults for that matter) in today's American society. Of course that will never be debated to the point of making substantial changes as long as the popular media is playing a part in the mediation of the subject. Obtuse corporate power lies at the very core of the problem, and as long as producers and programmers can use gunfire, explosions, and the like to maintain consumer attention (a cheap but effective trick), and as long as the news media can maintain it's 45% average rate of 'sensationalist tragedy' to keep viewers plugged into the news, that's the way things will remain.
"World War III will be a guerrilla information war, with no division between military and civilian participation".
Looking at the fact surrounding 'free' society today, the only way to the next plateau of increased conciousness in living is via this route. I see no viable way around it, and no logical alternate course. Whatever fears society or the government holds about an armed rebellion by the people is completely misplaced. Guns will play little part in the next revolution. It will be our abilities to manipulate information that brings about the big change - nothing more, nothing less.
P.S. - Also, for all you judgemental folks overseas, keep in mind that you can denounce Capitalist culture all you like, but like it or not, if you're in the free world and reading this post then the same set of values is coming to a city near you. It's a global epedimic. In the end you can try to pass the blame all you want, but noone other than yourself has allowed it inside your own borders. Regardless of what you believe the status quo to be in the U.K., facts show 5 million illegal guns recently entering your country and crime rates on the rise. Have fun!
[This message has been edited by Windle (edited 12-10-2000).]
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gee dowding bring up the fact that i once said jap...well here cream yer pants.
JAP JAP JAP JAP JAP JAP JAP JAP JAP. there im a total biggot....with a gun
I told you handsomehunk that the only reason i say JAP is because i dont feel like typing japanise, just like the british say "yanks" gee i guess dowding thinks brits are all biggots too, well at least im in a big family.
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Santa - I'll remember those phrases. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) Now if I only knew how to pronouce them properly... (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
Wobble,
'Jap.' is an abreviation for Japanese, 'Brit.' is an abreviation for Briton (of which I am one) and 'Yank.' is short for Yankee, which, correct me if I'm wrong, is what the confederates called the the unionists in the American Civil War.
Note also that you used the word 'gook', not 'Jap'. You then defended this by saying,
...the reason i said "gook" is because i was pissed at a "jap"...
To this I replied, that if you're angry at a black man, do you call him a 'cupcake'?
You haven't replied to this directly yet.
You also apologised for any offence caused, but did not retract what you said.
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Windle - it sounds to me as though you have given up believing anything can be done to halt rampant consumerism. I *hate* the way Britain is being turned (slowly, but almost inexorably) into the 51st state of the USA. This does not stem from a hate for the US, by the way. I see alot of Americans (Republicans mostly) complaining that old fashioned standards are being erroded ('the world isn't like it used to be' syndrome), yet most of them welcome the insipid creep of big business into every corner of their lives. Just look at the election - is there any truth in the observation that neither candidate could back down because of the amount of corporate investment at stake? And then the Law profession, a worthwhile and honourable pursuit, is degraded by the politicians drive to win. After the 3 billion dollars spent on the campaign, what's a few million in lawyer's fees if it means you become President?
Consumerism just panders to the 'me, me, me' part of all of us. We spend our disposable income on things that we think will make us happy, and think we are 'free' because of it - I'm as guilty of this as anyone else. But I recognise that when I die, the things I will remember will the times I've shared with different people, and things I've seen and done. Not what I bought.
Rising crime rates in Britain will not be solved by arming the populace.
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Windle - it sounds to me as though you have given up believing anything can be done to halt rampant consumerism.
Actually a good many things can be done, it's all comes down to whether society can make them happen. Major networks could for once agree to allow types of commercials to be aired that seek to simply break the seemless spell of the consumerist loop. Offering a mere two minutes an hour to any person or association who can afford the air time would be a huge start (abiding by FCC rules of course)! Right now there are a number of organizations with big financial backing and slick 'un'advertisments aimed at casually making the public conscious of the fact it's being tought how to think by the major corporations of the world - geared toward dispelling the 'cool' myth associated with product and product image loyalty that goes unchallenged 24 hours a day. Despite their backing and quality advertisements, these groups have been consistantly turned away for years from the radio and television networks because their message is not condusive with the intent of the network sponsors and mega-corporations. The anti-smoking lobby is about the only group that has managed to get any leverage against the commercial agenda of major tobacco corporations, and that battle has been in motion for the last 30 years.
Then there is the inability to get a message across in anyway that puts the media in suspect light. A Jonesborough, Arkansas native and former Army officer named David Grossman was nominated for a Pulizer prize because of a book he wrote On Killing: The Psychological Cost of Learning to Kill in War and Society. At the time the much publicised school shooting occurred in his home town, he was contacted by enthusiastic television producers for his astute opinion on the possible reason behind the shooting. He of course pointed out the incontrovertible link between TV violence and real world crime. More than two hundred studies have identified a clear cause-and-effect relationship, and every credible agency from the American Medical Association to the Surgeon General's Office to the United Nations has accepted the conclusion. As a result of the networks ultimate position, no story on Mr. Grossman or interview or the TV-crime link has ever aired on network TV. Every time the story gets to a higher level, it's killed. Here is a man who is a leading expert on psycology and assasination who has been besieged by the media, did many international radio and newspaper interviews, and was contacted by more than a dozen network TV producers. NONE of his spots ever ran. The amount of stonewalling is staggering and speaks volumes about a system with an agenda to control and direct the mindset of the consumers in its own particular and popular fashion without unwanted disturbances.
The most profound way to break the spell of commercial cultivation would be to overturn the Supreme Court ruling that allowed corporations to be placed on the same plateau as 'natural persons'. That would allow the people of the country to overthrow any corporation that posed an honest threat to the community at large. Until then, the average man or lobbying group has no chance in court against such giants.
Abraham Lincoln was quoted as saying...
"Corporations have been enthroned...An era of corruption in high places will follow and the money power will endeavor to prolong its reign by working on the prejudices of the people...until wealth in a few hands...and the republic is destroyed."
The whole idea is not something that has just recently come to light. It is a fundamental flaw in the way the powers in this country is allowed to operate. Changes can be made that allow the country to continue to prosper, but corporate America is using leverage with political and popular media groups in a fashion that wont allow the message to get through. My opinion is that the symptoms of the inherent malady in society will be forced see the message through in time. Until then it's simply a question of how deep into the abyss we will be dragged before the need for massive restructuring cannot be denied any longer. The longer we wait, the greater the fallout from the inevitable shift.
Rising crime rates in Britain will not be solved by arming the populace.
I agree with you here for the most part. I simply believe arming the populance wouldn't affect Britain in any way one way or the other at this point in time. Your crime apparently hasn't reached the levels yet to even raise the question of the validity of giving back the general populance its freedom to bear arms. But you must agree, before that nasty shooting a few years back and the resulting confiscation of arms - crime was noticably less than it is today in the UK - for whatever reasons. The notion that disarming the populance might stop another lunatic from killing a handful of children might have succeeded, but how many murders and gun related crimes have occurred since then that dwarf that particular occurence regardless of the new law? Whatever the answer may be, the result is that your entire society has been stripped of the ability to defend its lives against agressors with no quatifiable results, and a violent crime rate that continues to rise unheedingly. Should the proliferation of the drug culture and the fallout from it such as increased gun violence, home invasion, and the like continue to grow in the UK, I can tell you from experience that you will definately be missing the simple comfort you used to enjoy of having a basic rifle in the closet. Once the ferver of the criminals reaches a point where they are willing to enter your house and cause you harm in order to facilitate their dependances, they will do so with no hesitance over the fact that they might meet equal opposition.
From across the Pond I can't really make the call or pass profound judgement one way or the other because I don't walk your streets everyday, and I haven't directly experieced your society and its ways. Only you guys will know when the time comes, what is right for you. If you can maintain a sense of order through your country's inborn royal honor code then more power to you - all we have over here are sleezy politicians to lead us and we all know it. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif) My wishes are with you for a bright and positive future.
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Originally posted by StSanta:
If French people dominated this board, I'd be on their case for the fun of it (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif).
I am dominating this board your just not aware of that (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
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Ahh, feel the love! Reminds me of a John Lennon song....
"Happiness....is a warm gun <Shoot Shoot Bang Bang>
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Windle, you make some excellent points. I wonder how many of us realise the extent to which undemocratic bodies control our lives? We think consumerism is one of the most democratic activities (outside electing our leaders, or not as the case may be (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)) - we think because we have a choice it must be a worthy pursuit. But the only choice worth a damn is an informed choice. The stone-walling of information based on financial considerations (there's a price on everything after all), really is a problem, the scale of which is difficult to judge.
Over here, there's talk of privatising the BBC every so often. At the moment, everyone pays a TV license (about £90 a year) - this goes to funding the service. A privatised BBC would obviously include advertisements for its revenue. In recent years, the BBC, in my opinion, has dumbed itself down considerably. There are still quality programs there, but everything is coated in a veneer of 'style'.
The things you talk about remind me of Michael Moore - his pet subject is big business. His programs make interesting watching and the last one I saw was about the senate, and the senator's various comercial interests.
BTW, you don't hold a monopoly on sleazy politician types, ya know! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif) We have plenty of those, with some pretty seedy out-of-house activities. Fortunately, corporate sponsorship of election campaigns is ver limited - I hope it stays that way. And our Royal Family isn't exactly ideal either.
Crime over here isn't really that bad. True, certain types of crime are rising, but others are decreasing. There's a lot of renuvation in old council estates (state owned housing); these used to be areas of very high crime, but are now becoming more civilised with community spirit being re-engendered.
I disagree with your point of the British people being stripped of the means to defend themselves, viz firearms. Historically, the British people never really owned firearms, and even before Dunblane, I don't think many people owned a gun. I think recent rises in the crime rate are perhaps only a delayed reaction from the social change started in the 80's, which continued into the 90's. Large amounts of unemployment are almost always conducive to a rising crime rate.
My wishes are with you for a bright and positive future.
You too mate, I'm sure once you've sorted out who your President really is, you can back to ruling the world. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
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Originally posted by Ripsnort:
Ahh, feel the love! Reminds me of a John Lennon song....
"Happiness....is a warm gun <Shoot Shoot Bang Bang>
That song was about shooting heroine (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Udie
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To him, it was, to me it had a different meaning. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Erm.. St. Santa? How would things in Denmark be if you were considered "The land of oportunity"? Why isn't Denmark considered that? Why isn't Denmark more apealing to refugees and imigrants across the world?
Oh.. that's right.. you guys don't let them in. Population/citizen control starts at such a fundamental level in Denmark that I wonder if most even realize its occuring.
The French are even better. They let you in.. but continually insult you and your family until you leave. Not only does it accomplish the same thing as a closed border... they get to actually belittle people at the same time.
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
Oh.. as for no guns... an anecdote:
When I came home from a buisness trip to Asia... my wife informed me that one of our dogs (affectionately known as "fatass") could not get up to go outside to do his buisness. She thought that his arthritis in his hips was preventing it.
Upon hearing this, I looked at the dog for about 30 seconds trying to decide wether or not to shoot him. Without a word being said... the dog got up and ran outside. He hasn't as much as limped in the last 4 years.
If I didn't really have a gun.. would that dog have taken me seriously?
AKDejaVu
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The French are even better. They let you in.. but continually insult you and your family until you leave. Not only does it accomplish the same thing as a closed border... they get to actually belittle people at the same time.
ROTLMAO ... complete bullsh*t ... you can choose the term ya want (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Where did you get that ? I've yet to figure where you American got such non sense.
they get to actually belittle people at the same time.
Only with those ugly American as arrogant as us (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif) with the exception of some Danes (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
.
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God I've to take valium I'm becoming postaolic ... (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Actually Straffo.. it was only part truth and heavily based on stereotype. Of course, I'm the only one to do this in this forum.
Parisians are doing your country a great service. I can understand the attitude on many different levels... but it doesn't make the end results any more appealing. Unfortunately for most of the rest of the world.. Parisian=French.
So.. don't take it personal. I just like to stereotype as much as anybody else participating in a thread. I also like to point out that virtually anyone from any country reacts when someone starts to criticize their nation. France encluded.
AKDejaVu
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Too bad I'm a stereotype (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
and ex-parisien btw (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
I've to agree that the Parisianism is a great plague for us french people (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/frown.gif)
generally speaking they behave like they were "king of the world"
The problem for me is that I've no stereotype for other country (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) or I'm doing my best to never use it as I've noticed several time that they were wrong (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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I spent about 3 years living in Europe. Everywhere I went, I made my best attempt to speak the language. I went to Paris over Christmas holiday one year. Try as I might, French escapes me. So, I kindly told my waiter one night that I didn't speak French. He gave me the biggest "you sub-human" look I've ever seen, but did speak English. Each time he came back to my table, he would start in French, and I would remind him I didn't speak French, he would get pissed off and start speaking English again. This happened probably 4 times during the meal. I took comfort in the fact that not only was he a real amazinhunk, but he had a really short freaking memory (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
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LJK_Raubvogel
LuftJägerKorps (http://www.luftjagerkorps.com)
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Originally posted by TheWobble:
America need guns, Europiens dont need guns because ..not because there are not guns....possibley because all the criminal would-be types have mad cow disease.
just wanted to repost this in case it was missed the first time - it's all so clear now....
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'Yank.' is short for Yankee, which, correct me if I'm wrong, is what the confederates called the the unionists in the American Civil War.
Yanks were from the North, I'm from the South, don't call me a yank! I prefer: Ameruhcan, Cajun, Texan, Tex, Cowboy, European American, or just Big Daddy NateDog. Thanx! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
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Nathan "NATEDOG" Mathieu
Art Director
HiTech Creations
-=HELLFIRE SQUAD=-
".... And on the eighth day, God created beer. "
[This message has been edited by NATEDOG (edited 12-11-2000).]
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Read em and weep suckas! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/Forum4/HTML/001034.html (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/Forum4/HTML/001034.html)
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Originally posted by LJK Raubvogel:
I spent about 3 years living in Europe. Everywhere I went, I made my best attempt to speak the language. I went to Paris over Christmas holiday one year. Try as I might, French escapes me. So, I kindly told my waiter one night that I didn't speak French. He gave me the biggest "you sub-human" look I've ever seen, but did speak English. Each time he came back to my table, he would start in French, and I would remind him I didn't speak French, he would get pissed off and start speaking English again. This happened probably 4 times during the meal. I took comfort in the fact that not only was he a real amazinhunk, but he had a really short freaking memory (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
Being an amazinhunk is international there's amazinhunk everywhere whe are surreunded by amazinhunks (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
But I spent 30 years in Europe (and 10 in Paris) and each time I've been in contact with American tourist in Paris they often start speaking in English to me without even saying a simple "Bonjour" nor "hello" ( it's not difficult to learn the basic when you are in a foreign country) nor ask me if I undertstand English and it's for me IMPOLITE !
And when you are impolite I'm impolite too ... some of them are always trying to find their way to the Effeil Tower (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif) (yep I'm a bastard)
BTW this is an US tourist speciality (at least for me...) German,Japanese and lot of other tourist have often (in my experience) be more polite than the average US invader/tourist (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif) perhaps the fact that
I'm not looking like the typical french stereotype (frankly I look more german than french (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)) change their behaviour ...
Im just speaking of tourist in my work I've often be in touch with American who were not that rude or as I'm living in Normandie with vet who are great guys.
My point will be simple can't you send those sucker to other country ? (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
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Hm, well I sorta like the way Americans handle themselves in Denmark.
First off, they can be heard for several meters, even if they're whispering. All those rrr r sounds make Americans very easy to single out in a crowd.
Secondly, everyone of them appear to be rich eccentrics in weirdo outfits. Kinda charming
When they approach you (happened twice to me) to ask for direction, there's not much of the either polite BS or plain irritation in their voices like from Swedes or Germans. Sort of refreshing. Just "uh, sorry, we're kinda, uh, stuck we wanna go to..Keopp..kapp..koopp<weird sound> uh THIS place <points on name on map> you know how to get there?"
Seen a few ugly Americans too, but only very few. Most of them were American sailors on some kind of warship. They acted like Denmark was some backward bellybutton country they owned. Also got into a lot of fights because of it (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif). Me I gave one a scolding in Danish for bumping into me (and it was a conscious thing from him). Was funny; big African American guy. Said "so what's your problem?" and I just kept yapping in Danish. Quite safe since he couldn't tell I was insulting him his family tree and the way he shags goats.
Ah yes, more Americans please. I'll start charging for giving directions. Those rich capitalistic bastards can take it.
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StSanta
9./JG 54 "Grünherz"
(http://www.geocities.com/nirfurian/stSanta.jpg)
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Originally posted by AKDejaVu:
Oh.. as for no guns... an anecdote:
When I came home from a buisness trip to Asia... my wife informed me that one of our dogs (affectionately known as "fatass") could not get up to go outside to do his buisness. She thought that his arthritis in his hips was preventing it.
Upon hearing this, I looked at the dog for about 30 seconds trying to decide wether or not to shoot him. Without a word being said... the dog got up and ran outside. He hasn't as much as limped in the last 4 years.
If I didn't really have a gun.. would that dog have taken me seriously?
AKDejaVu
Are you serious or it is tongue in cheek?
In case You are serious, You need to handle a gun to be taken seriously?
I feel for ya!! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
P.s.
Oh, and maybe is better if You dont own a dog, or any pet... well... better for him! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
You do the same when your childrens have some little disease? (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/tongue.gif)
[This message has been edited by Naso (edited 12-12-2000).]
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Yanks were from the North, I'm from the South, don't call me a yank! I prefer: Ameruhcan, Cajun, Texan, Tex, Cowboy, European American, or just Big Daddy NateDog. Thanx! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
lol! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) I already knew that the difference between a yank and a southener, and I usually avoid using the term. European American? Bit of an oxymoron ain't it? I know how much you American types hate to recognise you came from evil ol' Europe. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
'Big Daddy Natedog' it is then.
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
American tourists are alright; the ones I've met anyway. I went to uni. in Durham, which is a very pretty city with a huge 1000 year old cathedral. We used to get loads of tourists there and the Americans I 'bumped' into were always polite. But then again we both spoke the same language (well, almost).
When I go abroad, I always try to learn a few words like, 'hello', 'how are you?', 'goodbye', even in Russian and Greek. I enjoy trying to speak other languages, and just wish I knew more.
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"Oh yes, one need only look at soccer (football) matches in Europe to know that they are SO MUCH more civilized and non-violent than we are. "
Ya and in the US the students go to school with weapons and bombs and starts shooting their school mates and teachers...
You want to make more high IQ comparisons?
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AH : Maniac
WB : -nr-1-
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That school shooting toejam sucked, but i doubt that gun control would have had any affect on it, they were determined to do SOMETHING, if by some miricle "gun control" had kept guns from them (which im sure it wouldent have)they would have probably just made better bombs, I know thats a grim outlook but its probably the most accurate one.
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It was a joke naso.
Despite the smiley faces you've added to the end of the ill-children comment... I find it incredibly tasteless. The wink does nothing to change my opinion of that.
AKDejaVu
[This message has been edited by AKDejaVu (edited 12-12-2000).]
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dude if you werent serious you post was in real bad taste . dogs are really probly one of the few true pleasures in life . to talk lightly of waxin a good animal is obcene. but that is my opinion.
seems silly to say this here . but i would like to point out that americans are not well represented here . alot of us are middle of the road and for social change , after the warhawks and rich folks get done telling us how to live .
i was in the navy and saw alot of fights and bad behavior by our people,felt really bad about it . we have alot of problems here but slowly we will change , remember you are dealing with a rabid conservative croud here ( military types) i assure you the standard american is just ignorant not really stupid we are raised with the expectation of havin to fight in a war and kill as part of outr patriotic duty the glamorization of this fact screw us up bad .idividualy we are great people . in crowds we are dangerous remember that an you will be fine (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
watch the conservatives real close . the nazis learned eugenics in the usa.
that comment about you dog sucked bad dude still botherin me.
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P.s.
Oh, and maybe is better if You dont own a dog, or any pet... well... better for him!
Ah.. and as for this one.. wink or no wink...
The anecdote was a joke.. but it is true. The dog hadn't moved for 2 days. I did look at him and decide wether or not to have him put down. Without me saying a word.. the dog got up and went outside. Despite the fact that my wife could not drag him outside for 2 days.
Explain to me why that makes someone that shouldn't own a dog?
AKDejaVu
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ROTFLMAO! Towd.. I'm going to go out on a limb and ask that you not appoint yourself as someone that is "well representing America".
to talk lightly of waxin a good animal is obcene
LOL! and what part about hadn't gotten up for 2 days had you most confused? Just how long must a dog lay dormant before you decide its time to take him into the vet?
LOL! I can't help but think that your shortcomings in the general forum prompted this response in here. Probably best if you stay away from both towd.
AKDejaVu
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I've had to put down a good hunting dog for hip problems myself, and the thought crossing your mind doesn't disqualify one for 'being a good pet owner'. My dog, my problem, not a vet who's insensitive to my dog's death. I have lost only 2 Grandparents in life thus far, but I never cried as much as I did when I had to put down one of my best hunting dogs. He was a companion, a friend, and ironically, he knew what I was going to do, and licked me prior to the bullet, almost as if he begged me to get on with it, he was in alot of pain, and had to be carried outside to poop.
Just typing this 10 years later still swells tears...
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Yep, Rip.
A tough thing to do. I found a vet that would let me do the shot myself. Carried her outside the vet office under a small group of pines, just me and her.
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C'mon AKDJ, I was as tasteless as you, but maybe your gun give you more rights to be tasteless than me, or maybe your passport.
BTW, reading the last few posts, I have a hint for NateDOG :
Hurry up with your work on 1.05!!
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
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Originally posted by Toad:
Yep, Rip.
A tough thing to do. I found a vet that would let me do the shot myself. Carried her outside the vet office under a small group of pines, just me and her.
Hmm, great vet! My buddy of late is 9 years old, retired him from hunting at age 6, his hips are doing great, he should live alittle longer, but I may have to look for one of those vets you speak of.
BTW, I buried "Tony" in my hunting jacket that he used to curl up on and sleep when we finished a hard day's hunt. God bless his soul.
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Really Naso? What about my post was actually tasteless? I can get specific about yours.. you know that part where you said:
You do the same when your childrens have some little disease?
If you can't see the difference between my story about having to decide wether or not to put my dog down and what you said here.. then I truly feel sorry for you.
AKDejaVu
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Rip,
I just convinced my regular vet that had looked after her for years.
He put an IV ( i guess) in a vein in her foreleg and all I had to do was inject the solution through the rubber cap into the IV cup.
It took me a while to convince him that I knew what to do and that I could do it right.
He hung back aways on standby but there's no real trick to it.
I had that pup from her 49th day until 11 1/2 years later. I figure I owed it to her; as you said, no room for strangers when the time comes. It's time for mutual respect and mercy.
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Hey Rip.. my mother-in-law just had to put her yellow lab down. She had never liked pets but the dog came with the house. She lived there alone and eventually learned just what excellent companions dogs could be.. especially labs.
When the dog turned 13, he was no longer able to walk. She couldn't bring herself to take him to the vets office because he'd start shaking whenever she pulled up there. In the end, the vet gave her the shot to give him and she did it at home.
Explain to a vet that your only two options are to shoot it or give it an injection.. neither are going to happen in his office. Usually they will help you out.
AKDejaVu