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General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: SkyTex on August 23, 2005, 06:28:36 PM

Title: NVidia not seeing any improvment...
Post by: SkyTex on August 23, 2005, 06:28:36 PM

I ran the op test thing. after reading all the results i was excited about my fps coming up some. Instead i knoticed no difference. is there anything i can do to make this thing atleast get 30fps?

CPU: AMD Athalon XP 1900+ MMX 3Dnow ~1.6GHz, System Mem 512 MB RAM
Video: Nvidia MX 4000, Mem 128 MB

View,AH,None,Obj,Both

TWR Fwd 28 28 28 28
TWR Left 28 28 28 28
TWR Rigt 28 28 28 28
TWR Bac 28 28 28 28
Grnd vis 24 25 28 28
Grnd left 24 18 28 28
Grnd rig 18 20 28 28
Grnd Bck 18 18 27 28
P51d fwd 28 28 28 28
P51d bck 28 28 28 28

^^^^^
Results from my test. minor improvment in ground range fps, but that's it.

Title: NVidia not seeing any improvment...
Post by: zmeg on August 23, 2005, 08:50:00 PM

Turn off multiple monitor support, turn off v-sync, turn off aa & af,set max texture size to 256, set max fps to unlimited press the default button in video settings and test again.

Title: NVidia not seeing any improvment...
Post by: Mustaine on August 23, 2005, 10:19:26 PM

Quote

Originally posted by zmeg
Turn off multiple monitor support, turn off v-sync, turn off aa & af,set max texture size to 256, set max fps to unlimited press the default button in video settings and test again.

he has a point...

look at all the test results, and the ATIs are getting a good 40% + boost in alot of cases, where the Nvidia's are gettign only 10-20% if that.

i posted about this in the "discussion" topic, and am curious too as to the results.

Title: NVidia not seeing any improvment...
Post by: SkyTex on August 23, 2005, 11:14:35 PM

sure, explain how to do all that stuff first. the card was just auto-recognized by winxp so i don't have a fancy nvidia program like i see all the ATi users showin off.

as for the AH settings, i have max texture size at 516 where skuzzy told me awhile ago to put it, all the stuff in the video settings is default in the game. and fps is set to unlimited.

Title: NVidia not seeing any improvment...
Post by: Krusty on August 23, 2005, 11:26:06 PM

Skytex, WinXP has a decent set of drivers most of the time, but I HIGHLY recommend 66.99 for any and every nvidia card. Check out http://www.guru3d.com. They have some ads and popups but they also have lots of drivers and utilities.

Also consider your card is an MX. MX = crap version. I had a GeForce 256 DDR (32MB) and bought an GeForce2 MX420 (64MB) and it turns out the 256DDR on the same set of drivers outperformed the Ge2 in every area but 64MB testing using 3dmark2000. So avoid MX cards at all costs. They're a step backwards. If you have to get a lesser but standard card. Chances are it will still out perform a higher number MX card.

Title: NVidia not seeing any improvment...
Post by: SkyTex on August 23, 2005, 11:52:14 PM

well i went from an old nvidia tnt riva to this mx4000. all i could afford at the time, and i certiantly can't afford to upgrade at the moment.

Title: NVidia not seeing any improvment...
Post by: zmeg on August 24, 2005, 12:08:38 AM

The xp native nvidia drivers are never going to get good framrates, you can get the 66.93 (http://www.nvidia.com/object/winxp_2k_66.93.html)  driver here. After you install and reboot an icon will apear in your tooltray, just click it and you'll find all the settings.

Title: NVidia not seeing any improvment...
Post by: Grits on August 24, 2005, 12:20:26 AM

Why 66.93?

Title: NVidia not seeing any improvment...
Post by: StarOfAfrica2 on August 24, 2005, 02:54:31 AM

First of all, if he installs the Nvidia 66.93 drivers on an MX card, he's likley to end up with lockups everywhere.  I tested that card with that driver, it is teh suk.

You need the 61.77 driver for that card (if you go with the official Nvidia drivers).  The 66.93 drivers from Omega would be ok.  But not the official Nvidia ones.

Title: NVidia not seeing any improvment...
Post by: Schutt on August 24, 2005, 03:10:17 AM

I saw great improovement with nvidea 6600, so i dont feel like nvidea is left out.

Title: NVidia not seeing any improvment...
Post by: OOZ662 on August 24, 2005, 04:02:40 AM

My XFX 6800 (Omega) saw something like a 30 FPS boost.

Quote

Originally posted by Krusty
Also consider your card is an MX. MX = crap version. I had a GeForce 256 DDR (32MB) and bought an GeForce2 MX420 (64MB) and it turns out the 256DDR on the same set of drivers outperformed the Ge2 in every area but 64MB testing using 3dmark2000. So avoid MX cards at all costs. They're a step backwards. If you have to get a lesser but standard card. Chances are it will still out perform a higher number MX card.

The MX440 was a VERY decent card stability wise. It got an average of 30 FR on my old Celeron 2.6 GHz computer. Which isn't bad for the price I paid for it.

Title: NVidia not seeing any improvment...
Post by: Skuzzy on August 24, 2005, 07:00:57 AM

Quote

Originally posted by SkyTex
sure, explain how to do all that stuff first. the card was just auto-recognized by winxp so i don't have a fancy nvidia program like i see all the ATi users showin off.

as for the AH settings, i have max texture size at 516 where skuzzy told me awhile ago to put it, all the stuff in the video settings is default in the game. and fps is set to unlimited.

No way.  If I told to set it to 512, then I was very mistaken.  No MX card should be set higher than 256 for maximum texture size.

And Star is quite right.  The 61.77 drivers should be used with all NVidia cards from the FX5000 series and back.

Overall performance gains in the optest are going to depend on several factors.  The only surprises I have seen in the optests reports had to do with improper configurations where resources are being starved.

Slower video cards are not going to see the improvements the faster video cards will.  Has nothing to do with ATI versus NVidia, it is strictly the speed of the hardware (the CPU can also be a factor if it is too slow).

Title: NVidia not seeing any improvment...
Post by: SkyWolf on August 24, 2005, 07:02:09 AM

Quote

Originally posted by Schutt
I saw great improovement with nvidea 6600, so i dont feel like nvidea is left out.

Anyone want to tell my dumboscar what drivers I should be using with the 6800GT?

Title: NVidia not seeing any improvment...
Post by: StarOfAfrica2 on August 24, 2005, 12:22:07 PM

Either http://www.omegadrivers.net  click on the link for Nvidia GF, and then the link for your OS (these are at the top).  

Or download this one http://www.nvidia.com/object/winxp_2k_71.89.html

The 71.89 driver seemed fairly stable with the newer cards.  It should work ok with your 6800GT.  I think the Omega 66.93 is much better, but thats my opinion.

Title: NVidia not seeing any improvment...
Post by: SkyTex on August 24, 2005, 01:01:01 PM

Ok i got the nvidia omega 66.93 drivers, and set all the stuff yall said, including texture size to 256 by skuzzy's word. I saw a marked improvment in the driver update, but minimal if not losses with the optest. i saw gain in optest for ground views but lost a little on the full vis. here are the 2 results.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Old


CPU: AMD Athalon XP 1900+ MMX 3Dnow ~1.6GHz, System Mem 512 MB RAM
Video: Nvidia MX 4000, Mem 128 MB

View,AH,None,Obj,Both

TWR Fwd 28 28 28 28
TWR Left 28 28 28 28
TWR Rigt 28 28 28 28
TWR Bac 28 28 28 28
Grnd vis 24 25 28 28
Grnd left 24 18 28 28
Grnd rig 18 20 28 28
Grnd Bck 18 18 27 28
P51d fwd 28 28 28 28
P51d bck 28 28 28 28


-----------------------------
New

CPU: AMD Athalon XP 1900+ MMX 3Dnow ~1.6GHz, System Mem 512 MB RAM
Video: Nvidia MX 4000, Mem 128 MB

View,AH,None,Obj,Both

TWR Fwd 44 43 39 41
TWR Left 47 35 35 36
TWR Rigt 47 39 39 41  
TWR Bac 45 35 34 36
Grnd vis 21 21 33 34
Grnd left 21 20 27 28
Grnd rig 17 16 29 30
Grnd Bck 17 18 25 26
P51d fwd 33 34 38 41
P51d bck 30 29 30 30

Title: NVidia not seeing any improvment...
Post by: Skuzzy on August 24, 2005, 01:14:36 PM

That looks about right for that video card Skytex.

Title: NVidia not seeing any improvment...
Post by: eagl on August 24, 2005, 04:12:39 PM

Try to find a GF4-4200 used somewhere.  A GF4 MX is really a GF2 card, 2 full generations behind a true GF4.  You'll be amazed how much better it is, and you may be able to find one for $50 or so used.

Title: NVidia not seeing any improvment...
Post by: Creton on August 24, 2005, 04:26:27 PM

if you lived in oklahoma i'd give you my old gf4 card,it's only 64 mgb though.

JB12

Title: NVidia not seeing any improvment...
Post by: Krusty on August 24, 2005, 05:25:32 PM

I've got a Ge4 Ti 4400 (128MB) and I saw some rather high improvements on my tests

Result FORM.

CPU Intel(R) Pentium(R) 4 CPU 2.66GHz System Memory. 512MB RAM

Graphic Card GeForce4 Ti 4400 Card Memory 128 MB.

Tower Fwd Full Vis 68 69 89 99
Tower Left Full Vis 66 67 91 99
Tower Right Full Vis 61 61 81 86
Tower Back Full Vis 63 64 77 83
Tower Fwd Grnd Vis 31 31 64 65
Tower Left Grnd Vis 34 32 65 67
Tower Right Grnd Vis 25 26 54 55
Tower Back Grnd Vis 27 28 50 52
P51D  Fwd  Full Vis 45 46 56 60
P51D  Back Full Vis 62 62 80 85

EDIT: I broke 100 in the last column. That's a first for me! But it settled down to 99, so I listed that.

Title: NVidia not seeing any improvment...
Post by: MANDO on August 25, 2005, 06:00:38 PM

NVIDIA 6600GT AGP 128MB (drv 71.84), XP2100+, 512MB, W98SE

Got the very same results with OPTEST3 than normal AH.

Title: NVidia not seeing any improvment...
Post by: Skuzzy on August 25, 2005, 06:03:48 PM

Mando, you are going to be limited by Windows 98's poor memory management.

Title: NVidia not seeing any improvment...
Post by: MANDO on August 25, 2005, 06:31:37 PM

So the problem is the W98 memory management itself instead of memory quantity?

Title: NVidia not seeing any improvment...
Post by: Deth7 on August 25, 2005, 09:37:47 PM

I run rambooster to  manage my memory in Win98SE and it doesn't seem to do to bad. It's a freeware proggy simple and works.

Title: NVidia not seeing any improvment...
Post by: MANDO on August 26, 2005, 05:31:37 AM

Deth7, as far as I know, these programs will only free unused or unfreed memory after you close applications. So you would not get any improvement if you start AH just after a clean boot.

I suppose that Skuzzy refers to better addressing, accessing and allocation politics supposedly present in newer Windows versions. If not, then it would be related exclusively to the quantity of free memory present in the system. Sadly, as far as I remember, W98SE can only access to a maximum 512MB.

Title: NVidia not seeing any improvment...
Post by: Skuzzy on August 26, 2005, 06:53:59 AM

Mando, Tilt just upgraded from Windows 98 to Windows XP, due to frame rate issues, take a look at this thread (http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=158362) to see his results, before and after.

Title: NVidia not seeing any improvment...
Post by: MANDO on August 26, 2005, 10:09:50 AM

Thanks Skuzzy. Would XP Pro make any difference against XP Home? Would 2000 Pro reach same performance as XP for AH?

Title: NVidia not seeing any improvment...
Post by: Skuzzy on August 26, 2005, 10:32:15 AM

XP Pro/Home are no different in this regard.  I would not go with Windows 2000 as MS is going to be dropping support for it in the next year or so.

Title: NVidia not seeing any improvment...
Post by: Mister Fork on August 26, 2005, 01:05:53 PM

MANDO, Skuzzy is correct on the poor memory management with Windows 98. It can't handle over 256Mb very well (if at all), not to mention security issues and spyware problems you'll have.

(I would know, I am a senior IT manager at a government service centre and bonafide windows guru) :)

By moving to XP, your hardware can take advantage on how the operating system (OS) utilizes the memory and process management.

The biggest factor and motivator however, is personal security of your computer. Hackers can get access to any window98 machine on the internet. It's like having a fly-screen door(98) to keep out thieves, vs an iron plated shield (XP).

When I upgraded to XP Pro, most games ran around 20-50% faster FPS wise.

Title: NVidia not seeing any improvment...
Post by: Gato on August 26, 2005, 03:33:17 PM

I have an AMD 64 3500+ ~2.3 gh, nvidia Geforce FX-5700 (256 DDR) with 2 gb ram.  I run 1024 x 768 res, 1024 tex.  I have a 75-85 fps.  The test didn't change a thing for me, it's still the same.

Title: NVidia not seeing any improvment...
Post by: Skuzzy on August 26, 2005, 03:41:29 PM

Sounds like you did not turn off vsync before running the test.

Title: NVidia not seeing any improvment...
Post by: Gato on August 27, 2005, 02:04:20 AM

I checked it and made sure it was turned off, and still no difference.  If anything it went down.  I guess it's just my luck on things.:(

Title: NVidia not seeing any improvment...
Post by: Skuzzy on August 27, 2005, 08:20:26 AM

Ok, odd as the cap resembles what you would see if vsync was enabled.  Next step.  Turn the maximum texture resolution down to 512 and see what happens.

Make sure you have AA (anti-aliasing) and AF (anisotropic filtering) disabled as well and see what happens.

My guess is you are over-saturating the video cards resources, which is inducing performance issues.

Title: NVidia not seeing any improvment...
Post by: Gato on August 27, 2005, 02:21:35 PM

Okay, I did as you said and now the FPS is up to 95 - 110 most of the time.  It seems funny in a way.  I've talked to several players who laugh either from envy at my old 75FPS or at the low rate.  It seems I was sitting in the middle.  Many had 30-50 and others 150-175.  So I really had nothing to complain about.

Thanks Skuzzy, keep up the good work. :aok :D

One another note.  I wanted to get into the naming of the new game but it was closed out.  My input is: Military Duty, War life or a couple others some mentioned.  And NO I'm not trying to jack this thread, just wanted to let you know.

Thanks again.