Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Shuckins on August 24, 2005, 08:20:05 PM
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How many of you have it?
I've known that my paternal great-grandmother was full blood Choctaw for some time now...but I recently discovered that I had Indian ancestry from my mother's side as well. In addition, my wife's family came from the Galveston area, and had Indian ancestors in that region.
My theory is that this is quite prevalent in the South and West, among both blacks and whites. All you native Southerners and Westerners speak up, you yankees too...whether the answer is yay or nay.
Let's see how widespread this is.
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Yup a small part. It isn't Amerind however unless you consider the indians and aztecs from old mexico in the same category.
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They are and I do.
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nope, as far as i know nothing from this side of the pond in my blood
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Originally posted by Shuckins
How many of you have it?
I've known that my paternal great-grandmother was full blood Choctaw for some time now...but I recently discovered that I had Indian ancestry from my mother's side as well. In addition, my wife's family came from the Galveston area, and had Indian ancestors in that region.
My theory is that this is quite prevalent in the South and West, among both blacks and whites. All you native Southerners and Westerners speak up, you yankees too...whether the answer is yay or nay.
Let's see how widespread this is.
Probably similar to AK, Lots of People claim Indian Ancestory in GA, but very few actually have it. None here though, Irish 100%!
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My great grandmother, on my mothers side, came from Peru with the Father Fernandez missionaries in 1908. She claimed that she was a full blood Inca, but as Inca appears to be a title rather than a true culture she was probably Quechuan, or one of the tribes conquered by them, that formed the Incan Empire.
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Some Cherokee, Chocktaw, and Blackfoot (or so I'm told) all from my maternal grandfather's line.
AFAIK, the vast majority of people that can claim native american blood in this country can do so because they are the offspring of indian children taken by our government from their tribes in an attempt to assimilate them into "white" society.
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Both of my maternal grandparents were around 1/2 Cherokee, and there is supposed to be some Blackfoot further back as well.
Around here, there were plenty of Cherokee left behind as they marched the Trail of Tears. The maternal side originally came from Oak Ridge Tennessee, NE of here. That entire region up there was the original home of the Cherokee in Tennessee. The rest is thought to be a mix of Indian (American) and 1600-1700 settlers from Europe.
The fraternal grandparents are another story. My grandfather immigrated from Germany before the 1st World War, about the turn of the century. My grandmother was Irish/Italian.
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for my last mortage loan I was an American indian.
I have found no real financial or other reason tho to give myself an indian name and dress up in stupid looking clothes and look mystical yet tho...
lazs
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Then why do you do it ?
lol :p
sorry, couldn't ressist.
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to pick up fat annoying liberal chicks.
lazs
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Cherokee Indian..
My Great Great Great Grandmother..
So it's basicly just a trickle in my blood now.
:(
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Ever notice that most people you meet who are part american indian say that they are part cherokee?
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Don't know how much but it must be a lot. At least my wife continuously accuses me for playing the indian.
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Originally posted by Suave
Ever notice that most people you meet who are part american indian say that they are part cherokee?
Cherokee is the most widely recognized name of indian names. Coincidence? ;)
Here is one for you that rarely folks admit being "part"...is Muckleshoot. The Muckleshoots are widely known in this area for the trash in the front yard being higher than the houses they live in.
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Tonto to Lone Ranger:
"Got any indian in you?"
LR: "No, why do you ask?"
Tonto: "Want some?"
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none in my blood, every year tho i'll make an effort to attend a powwow on the circuit. always an oustanding day, buffalo burgers and all that tribal chanting.
(http://ca.geocities.com/ereid@rogers.com/people/images/First_Nations_4.jpg)
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1/8th Lakota Sioux, via my great grandmother on my father's side.
Ho mataquiasi!
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It's rumored that there is some small percentage of Cherokee at the great, great, great level.
Charon
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Originally posted by Ripsnort
Cherokee is the most widely recognized name of indian names. Coincidence? ;)
Here is one for you that rarely folks admit being "part"...is Muckleshoot. The Muckleshoots are widely known in this area for the trash in the front yard being higher than the houses they live in.
Ummm Seminole is right up there at the top...
So are the Navajo, Cheyenne, and Apache...
Saying 1 is more recongnized than the other is a stretch. Most who claim Cherokee are in fact not. And as soon as I hear claims of being a Cherokee I become immediately suspicious of it.
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well i AM 1/8 cherokee.
fathers grandmother was 100% Cherokee from oklahoma.
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Originally posted by Torque
none in my blood, every year tho i'll make an effort to attend a powwow on the circuit. always an oustanding day, buffalo burgers and all that tribal chanting.
(http://ca.geocities.com/ereid@rogers.com/people/images/First_Nations_4.jpg)
You know Indians didn't really have pow-wows back in the day, and they were created to make money. Want to say in the 1950's but will have to check further. Just a bit of little known info for you guys. :)
Still fun to watch and attend though.
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Originally posted by Raider179
You know Indians didn't really have pow-wows back in the day, and they were created to make money. Want to say in the 1950's but will have to check further. Just a bit of little known info for you guys. :)
Still fun to watch and attend though.
We took their land..
We took their ancestors lives..
Why not make money off of keeping a tradition alive?
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Originally posted by Hawklore
We took their land..
We took their ancestors lives..
Why not make money off of keeping a tradition alive?
Thats just it, its not tradition. lol
It supports their culture and I am all for it. But just thought it was an interesting fact that not many know. Everyone assumes the Indians have always had Pow-wows, when in fact they are a relatively recent invention by them to generate money.
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I work in the casino gaming industry, and i see know alot of the different people of different tribes that do the convention circut.
Yes Rip Muchleshoot is one of our big and very 1st customers.
the Ticket in Ticket out business in casinos stated up there in WA state. they were the 1st.
As you meet the peoples of all the different tribes the Cherokee are very very large tribe!(many tribes/clans were some what assimilated into the cherokee nation.
Cherokee nation is not the biggest. The largest tribe by numbers and members are (brain fart) a western tribe and they dont yet have a casino or a gaming commision , I wanna say the Navajo (not posative) im almost posative the Apache have a few casinos.
But here in Western NC you have the one casino in NC which is Harrahs (managed) but cherokee owned. All the casinos in OK are cherokee!
the cherokee had at one time the largest tribe per White Euro. invasion. here are som cherokee links to read on.
prior to euro invasion - http://cherokeehistory.com/original.gif
some good reads for those interested....
http://cherokeehistory.com/
because im from NC - http://www.cherokee-nc.com/
Btw supposedly along the lines on my family i got s drip of blood from (i cant spell it) saquaguwa - the chick who helped lewis and clark.
but every native american nation/tribe or clan deserves all of our ut most repect!
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Apache's in AZ do have at least one casino. The tohono o'odom (formerly known as yaqui) have a couple in Tucson and a third just south.
I believe the Navajo and Hopi in the NE part of the state do not have any.
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To say that gatherings are a recent phenomenon is not completely accurate. Powwow celebrations have changed over recent years, but so have county fairs.
The powwow can be traced among plains Indian tribes to the celebration of a sucessful hunt.
Dancing and tribal ritual were outlawed in the late 1800's and ban law was lifted in 1933. Kinda tough to have major gatherings when participation is rewarded with jail time.
In 1933 the celebrations came out from underground observances, but the great depression stifled any growth in the celebration.
Returning WW II veterans were welcomed with Powwow celebrations.
Growth has occured since.
Maternal grandmother was full blooded Pima. Grandad, who is a red haired Irishman, claims he met her while looking for the Lost Dutchman Gold Mine in the Superstitions. He always called her his treasure. She died of diabetes in '95.
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Grandmother was Cherokee.
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Like i said every Native American / Indian or what ever they choose to be called (active with in there're tribe or not) get nothing but my sincerest heart felt respect.
ho
most of us people who were raised in American schools (not indain or native school on a RES.) never learned the real histories of any tribes. we learned a few names and where they lived (at times) and a few things that made then unique. but never the REAL history! Thats for you to find on your own....
Fact the first slaves in the USA were native Americans!!! (lot cheaper to get em there then bring em with you or buy em)
there is soo much more that the natives know then we(anglo/euro/what ever) will ever know.
Little fish
BOX
Ho!
LOL too much fire water i cant type or make sentances!
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1/4er Inca
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Yes, not enough to amount to much. Grandfather was I believe 1/4 Indian.
Funny my 2 brothers & sister got the look, dark hair, darker skin, instant tan.
While it seems I got all the inside stuff.
As for the pow-wows, show me what is exactly the same as it was 150 years ago?
Rodeo's aren't, heck even spelling bee's have changed. So why wouldn't pow-wow's?
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Yup, from my Grandma on my Moms side.
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I don't care which one I am this week so long as I get the loan. I don't care which one you claim to be... you don't look like no indian to me.
lazs
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Originally posted by Raider179
Thats just it, its not tradition. lol
It supports their culture and I am all for it. But just thought it was an interesting fact that not many know. Everyone assumes the Indians have always had Pow-wows, when in fact they are a relatively recent invention by them to generate money.
Exactly what the hell would you call it that Custard ran up on and suprised with his geewizz I'll do the "split my forces against overwhelming odds" tactic? IIRC there were 5 very distict tribes gathered together grooving to the rightous beat. :rolleyes:
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I am a native american. Me people have been native to america for at least 3 generations.
We belong to the comonIwannalaya sect.
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lol Yeager....but what about this you posted in another thread?
I was saving the quote for future use...but it didn't take too long. ;)
Originally posted by Yeager
How about a new rule.......if you dont have anything sensible to say, dont say anything at all.
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Lol....I knew I was shooting myself in the foot with that one :rolleyes:
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Another "part Cherokee".
My great grandfather on my mom's side was full blood from Arkansas or Oklahoma area.
GrandPa was a WWii fighter pilot in the ETO also. That's all american baby!
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Originally posted by Holden McGroin
To say that gatherings are a recent phenomenon is not completely accurate. Powwow celebrations have changed over recent years, but so have county fairs.
The powwow can be traced among plains Indian tribes to the celebration of a sucessful hunt.
Dancing and tribal ritual were outlawed in the late 1800's and ban law was lifted in 1933. Kinda tough to have major gatherings when participation is rewarded with jail time.
In 1933 the celebrations came out from underground observances, but the great depression stifled any growth in the celebration.
Returning WW II veterans were welcomed with Powwow celebrations.
.
Pow-wow- Dancing competition for generating money for Indians.
What you are talking about are their native ceremonies and rituals.
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Originally posted by boxboy28
Fact the first slaves in the USA were native Americans!!! (lot cheaper to get em there then bring em with you or buy em)
Little fish
BOX
Ho!
Fact. Indians owned plenty of Black slaves. Although the Seminoles treated their slaves a lot better than whites/other indian tribes.
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Originally posted by Lizard3
Exactly what the hell would you call it that Custard ran up on and suprised with his geewizz I'll do the "split my forces against overwhelming odds" tactic? IIRC there were 5 very distict tribes gathered together grooving to the rightous beat. :rolleyes:
1)I'm sorry, did the Indians say Hey Custer come on in and buy some indian goods or watch us dance. No the Indians attacked them. The 6 tribes (Cheyenne, Sans Arcs, Miniconjoux Sioux, Oglala Sioux, Blackfeet and Hunkpapa Sioux)
2)Do you really think the Indians were having a pow-wow?
They were together for mutual defense seeing as how we were driving them out of everywhere else. They were not celebrating they were defending and attacking. Custer did not surprise anything. Roll your eyes all you want but please at least check your facts first.
http://www.usnews.com/usnews/doubleissue/mysteries/custer.htm
"Gold rush. Custer took the field for the last time after the discovery of gold in the Black Hills of the Dakotas (by an expedition he led). White prospectors flooded onto Sioux land. The Army was ordered to force the Sioux onto reservations to make way for miners. Pushing west across the Great Plains in June of 1876, Custer's command was looking for a fight. After marching 72 miles in three days, they found it on the Little Bighorn.
On June 25, Custer stumbled on one of the largest Indian camps the Plains had ever seen–around 7,000 strong, made up of Sioux, Cheyenne, and Arapaho bands. Brimming with confidence and afraid the Indians would escape, he split his troops into three columns to encircle them. Custer led roughly 200 men toward the camp, counting on his two other columns to encircle the Indian warriors. Instead, he found himself surrounded by well-armed Indians atop what is today called Custer Hill. Most historians agree the battle was quick–no longer than two hours. Custer was found two days later, stripped naked and shot in the left temple and chest. Every one of his 210 men was killed."
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Originally posted by Raider179
Pow-wow- Dancing competition for generating money for Indians.
What you are talking about are their native ceremonies and rituals.
According to Dictionary.com,
pow·wow
1. A council or meeting with or of Native Americans.
2. A Native American shaman.
3. A ceremony conducted by a shaman, as in the performance of healing or hunting rituals.
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Originally posted by Holden McGroin
According to Dictionary.com,
lol
The roots of the Pow-wow may be older but it is certainly not the same thing as their rituals and ceremonies.
http://www.civilization.ca/media/docs/fspow02e.html
"In the powwow as in painting, First Nations performers and painters are expressing a very beautiful dream of a time when all spirits are together in the past, present and future, when all are one in perfect harmony and timelessness.
The word "powwow" is said to come from the Eastern Algonquian word "pahwayaw." Indeed, the Pequot Nation claims the word is from its language. It was once used as a general term to describe any community gathering such as a political assembly or communal planting and harvesting. Early settlers from Europe corrupted the word to "powwow" and used it mainly in a derogatory sense. By the early twentieth century, however, the word "powwow" came to refer specifically to the music and dance styles of the northern plains.
Prior to the twentieth century, both sedentary and nomadic First Nations communities had various societies that were responsible for organizing and conducting the activities required for the smooth operation of a community. Committees and workers organized the community's spiritual, hunting, policing, militia, agricultural, healing and craft activities. From time to time throughout the year, these various committees would gather for meetings or celebrations to plan, administer or conduct their activities. A "Spiritual Feast" as well as the individual society's songs and dances usually accompanied these meetings.
By the turn of the nineteenth century, many societies were becoming less important to the newer lifestyles making their way onto the reservations. Inter-tribal warfare disappeared as communities began to support each other's struggles against various governmental systems and controls. Buffalo Hunt societies no longer engaged in buffalo hunting. Dog Soldiers or Kit-Fox societies were no longer needed. What would these communities preserve and take with them into the twentieth century? What would be allowed or prohibited under the Canadian and American federal governments? Canada's Dominion Day (July 1), Independence Day (July 4) in the United States, and the many Wild West Shows were examples of occasions when the various governments allowed, and indeed requested, displays of traditional food, clothing, songs and dances. The modern version of the powwow evolved from these events and over time became the rallying force for twentieth century cultural survival."
The contempory Pow-wow is not the same as their celebrations, feasts, rituals and the like. It might have evolved from different aspects of different tribes traditions but is not an "Old Tradition".
Please link me to 1 Pow-wow that happened before the USA was even a country. Hell how about before the Civil War? They didn't occur so don't waste your time. They are/were an invention to generate revenue, why do you think there is a "Pow-Wow" circuit? It might not be all about money, but that certainly played a major role in forming of PoW-Wow's.
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According to Boye Ladd, Winnebago Fancy Dancer, "Songs and dances evolved around the imitation of animals and natural forces and were held sacred." The word powwow derives from the Algonquin definition of a coming together of medicine men and spiritual leaders in a curing ceremony, a ispauau or pau wau". When early European explorers observed these religious practices with the accompanying dances they mispronounced it "powwow" and believed it referred to any large gathering of Indian people. The term spread, and, as Indian tribes learned English, they accepted the definition given to their gatherings.
http://www.powwowcountry.com/powwow_history.htm (http://)
Took me about three minutes on Google, so I didn't waste much time.
The Iroquis Confederacy (depending on which historian you believe) dates back to either 1142 or shortly after the encroachment of europeans. Either way, gatherings of political and spiritual leadership happened among the confederation before 1776.
Since County Fairs include a carnival, monster truck races and tractor pulls, county fairs did not exist before the internal combustion engine and electricity.
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Originally posted by Holden McGroin
http://www.powwowcountry.com/powwow_history.htm (http://)
Since County Fairs include a carnival, and tractor pulls, county fairs did not exist before the internal combustion engine and electricity.
actually, tractor pulls and carnivals were done by done by steam power before the internal combustion engine...
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Yeah, but the steam powered monster trucks really sucked. So those weren't county fairs.
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Half Ojibwe and half European.
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Originally posted by Holden McGroin
http://www.powwowcountry.com/powwow_history.htm (http://)
Took me about three minutes on Google, so I didn't waste much time.
The Iroquis Confederacy (depending on which historian you believe) dates back to either 1142 or shortly after the encroachment of europeans. Either way, gatherings of political and spiritual leadership happened among the confederation before 1776.
Since County Fairs include a carnival, monster truck races and tractor pulls, county fairs did not exist before the internal combustion engine and electricity.
Sorry but not buying it. Like I said maybe they get their roots from it, but it's not a pow-wow.
I will agree the line is gray but I disagree that Pow-wows were a "tradition".
This is earlier than I actually believe but from your link... And thanks for using one. I much more respect and am willing to actually be open-minded when one does not just hide behind quotes and is willing to post the website.
"Oklahoma tribes were at the center of the powwow emergence. The Ponca Fair and Powwow originated in 1877"
Like I said its not a "tradition". 1877, yet earlier than I personally agree with, but it is still not what it is portrayed as.
Please by no means get any of this wrong, I like pow-wow's and have respect for Indians. Just thought it was an interesting tidbit to throw in.
now go catch a green-corn ceremony and we are talking tradition.