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General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: mosgood on August 25, 2005, 07:59:35 AM

Title: American Taliban?
Post by: mosgood on August 25, 2005, 07:59:35 AM
Wow  I debated with myself for a few minutes about posting this link.  I was shocked at some of the stuff I read but also know that not everything quoted is actually what was said.  I hope that is the case here......


http://www.reandev.com/taliban/


LOL  this one is funny... "I'm an old-fashioned woman. Men should take care of women, and if men were taking care of women today, we wouldn't have to vote."

Kay O'Connor (Kansas Senate Republican)
Title: American Taliban?
Post by: Ripsnort on August 25, 2005, 08:22:48 AM
Just for balance purposes ;)


Quote
~Sen. Dick Durbin, D-Ill., who compared American soldiers in Guantanamo to "Nazis, Soviets in their gulags, or Pol Pot." Let's see: millions dead -- zero dead; pretty accurate comparison, Dick.

~John Kerry, who, commenting on the reasons for the Iraq war, said, "The first, of course, was weapons of mass destruction. The second was democracy, and now, it's to combat the hotbed of terrorism. But most Americans are aware that the hotbed of terrorism never existed in Iraq until we got there."

Oh really, John? What about the terrorist training camp south of Baghdad that U.S. forces found? What about infamous terrorists like Abu Abbas, found living in Baghdad? He's they guy who shoved a wheelchair-bound passenger off a hijacked cruise ship. What about many documented contacts between Osama bin Laden and Abu Musab al-Zarqawi with Iraqi officials?

~Then there was Gen. Wesley Clark, who opined that the United States was founded on the principle of a graduated income tax. Thanks for the tip, Wesley. And all this time, I thought it was founded on the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

~Howard Dean is one of the Democrats' most prolific author of dumb statements. It would be nearly impossible to list them all. Due to space limitations, suffice it to say that Dr. Dean is not sure that Iraq is better off without Saddam Hussein.

~Then there's the classic Democratic chorus, "Bush lied." After eight years of Bill Clinton, Democrats might be forgiven for thinking that all presidents lie. But to lie means to knowingly tell a falsehood. What falsehood did Bush knowingly tell? If you're talking about weapons of mass destruction, even if such weapons weren't found (they were -- enough sarin and mustard gas to kill thousands), Bush said the same thing that Bill Clinton, John Kerry, France, Germany, Russia, England and the CIA said. Were they all lying, or did they really believe what they were saying? If they believed it, it wasn't a lie.

~Democrats want to hire lawyers for the spies in Guantanamo, then close the facility. These thugs who want to kill any American were captured on the battlefield out of uniform. That disqualifies them for protection under the Geneva Conventions. They could have rightfully been executed on the spot.

But my favorite dumb Democrat idea, at least for now, is that we should set a deadline for removing our troops from Iraq.

That's just breathtakingly stupid. We would be breaking our promise to the Iraqi people; leaving them to fight the terrorists alone.

It would be like the attorney general saying, "We're going to strictly enforce the laws from January through October 23, but after that, the police will stay home."

What do you think would happen? In the early part of the year, the attorney general could no doubt claim that "crime has dropped precipitously." But what about after Oct. 23?

And the sad part is, these crazy quotes are from the "leaders" of the party. The looney left has taken over the Democratic Party. Moderates are nowhere to be found in the Democrat hierarchy. If this continues, we may be witnessing the demise of a once great political party.

The year is far from over. I expect Democrats will keep me busy looking up dumb quotes.


Lets not forget Democrat Patty Murray, who said told a group of high school students terrorist leader Osama bin Laden is popular in poor countries because he helped pay for schools, roads and even day care centers. "We haven't done that," Murray said. "How would they look at us today if we had been there helping them with some of that rather than just being the people who are going to bomb in Iraq and go to Afghanistan?"
Title: American Taliban?
Post by: mosgood on August 25, 2005, 09:25:21 AM
So after reading that, the first thing you think of is to point a finger at democrates?
Title: American Taliban?
Post by: Hangtime on August 25, 2005, 09:30:44 AM
It's Rip. He doesn't have fingers. He uses monkies and hypnotized parakeets to do his dirty work.

;)
Title: American Taliban?
Post by: Momus-- on August 25, 2005, 09:57:39 AM
Very funny,  for example -
Quote
"The demise of our community and culture is the fault of sissified men who have been overly influenced by women."


by this guy

(http://www.reandev.com/taliban/photos/Tony%20Evans.jpg)

Now we know where Lazs gets his best lines :p

Even funnier though is the way Rippy rolls out as fact dubious snippets such as the tired old Salman Pak training camp story. Rip, please read and digest (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salman_Pak_facility) for once.
Title: American Taliban?
Post by: Sandman on August 25, 2005, 02:23:58 PM
Say what you will about Ronald Reagan, but he doesn't belong on that page.
Title: American Taliban?
Post by: lazs2 on August 25, 2005, 02:29:14 PM
momus... how do you know he didn't get his lines from me?

lazs
Title: American Taliban?
Post by: mosgood on August 25, 2005, 02:32:26 PM
Quote
Originally posted by lazs2
momus... how do you know he didn't get his lines from me?

lazs



LOL  I could have almost predicted this....:lol
Title: American Taliban?
Post by: Sandman on August 25, 2005, 02:37:01 PM
Quote
"If the Supreme Court says that you have the right to consensual [Gay] sex within your home, then you have the right to bigamy, you have the right to polygamy, you have the right to incest, you have the right to adultery. You have the right to anything!"


Rick is right, but for all the wrong reasons. ;)
Title: American Taliban?
Post by: mosgood on August 25, 2005, 02:45:29 PM
O YA??  This is all the proof I need that Bush is BAD!!!  http://www.satirium.com/pages/vol6/bushphotos.html
Title: American Taliban?
Post by: bustr on August 25, 2005, 02:50:04 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Momus--
Very funny,  for example -  

by this guy

(http://www.reandev.com/taliban/photos/Tony%20Evans.jpg)

Now we know where Lazs gets his best lines :p

Even funnier though is the way Rippy rolls out as fact dubious snippets such as the tired old Salman Pak training camp story. Rip, please read and digest (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salman_Pak_facility) for once.


And Wikipedia is fronting information from Seymor Hersh in which he aledges he interview unnamed retired sources from the CIA and Military intelegence. My father and mother both retired from NSA. Want I should give then a call and see what they say about Salman Pak? Be about as useful as Seymor's unnamed sources. But at least I could give you my parents names.

Shame on Wikipedia, I thought they only delt in verifyable information. Not spinning history.
Title: American Taliban?
Post by: Sandman on August 25, 2005, 02:53:48 PM
Quote
Originally posted by bustr

Shame on Wikipedia, I thought they only delt in verifyable information. Not spinning history.


This just in... Anyone can edit Wikipedia.
Title: American Taliban?
Post by: mora on August 25, 2005, 03:08:24 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Sandman
Say what you will about Ronald Reagan, but he doesn't belong on that page.

His quote is IMO humorous anti-commie propaganda, rather than religious bigotry.
Title: American Taliban?
Post by: mora on August 25, 2005, 03:20:11 PM
Quote
Joseph Scheidler (Pro-Life Action League)

"I would like to outlaw contraception...contraception is disgusting – people using each other for pleasure."*

So that's next on their agenda.:rolleyes:
Title: American Taliban?
Post by: GtoRA2 on August 25, 2005, 03:43:59 PM
Jeez...


So Bush is pushing all the chrisitian stuff through congress and the senate?



Those dirty christian bastages! How dare the believe in something and talk about it!


Freedom of religion has just gone to far!!

:rolleyes:
Title: American Taliban?
Post by: Chairboy on August 25, 2005, 03:48:35 PM
Quote
Originally posted by mora
His quote is IMO humorous anti-commie propaganda, rather than religious bigotry.
Really?   I'm an atheist, and I gotta say, kinda scary to see the second most powerful man in the world (someone who can deploy nuclear weapons) talking about Armageddon.  Was he joking?  Maybe we need more context.
Title: American Taliban?
Post by: mora on August 25, 2005, 03:50:12 PM
Quote
Originally posted by GtoRA2
Jeez...


So Bush is pushing all the chrisitian stuff through congress and the senate?



Those dirty christian bastages! How dare the believe in something and talk about it!


Freedom of religion has just gone to far!!

:rolleyes:

Just to clarify my post:
Quote
Joseph Scheidler (Pro-Life Action League)
Title: American Taliban?
Post by: mora on August 25, 2005, 03:57:02 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Chairboy
Maybe we need more context.

True, I might be a bit biased as I think as warmly about the communists as he did.
Title: American Taliban?
Post by: Seagoon on August 25, 2005, 04:47:27 PM
I am currently slapping myself in the head for even thinking of posting in this thread (funny how you can regret a decision even as you are making it, eh?) But, fools rush in as the saying goes, and I don't claim to be smarter than them...

Where to begin, where to begin...

1) The thread equates a collection of Americans from very different walks of life and dispirate worldviews (in fact the only thing they have in common is that none of them are politically liberal, which actually says more about the compiler than the compiled) with the Taliban. The Taliban are however a cohesive, active, armed, and militant Muslim movement that has a shared worldview with the vast number of organizations that are part of the Muslim Brotherhood. Most of these movements even have the same slogan: "God is our purpose, the Prophet our leader, the Qur'an our constitution, Jihad our way and dying for God's cause our supreme objective."

Now lets compare the Taliban to the group above, in it we have Jews, Roman Catholics, Mainline Presbyterians, Conservative Presbyterians, Pseudo-Christian Racists, African-American Baptists, Methodists, Southern Baptists, Nazarenes, Pentecostals. Aside from the fact that members of this group have actually attacked the worldview of other members of this group (heck they've even attacked each other by name in the media), they have no slogan, no cohesion, no military wing, in fact no unifying factor except that they are all roundly despised by the political left wing. Of course the poster would no doubt like us to believe that they are all part of a dark cabal aimed at turning the US into a "theocracy" like Afghanistan. But then the Taliban are all agreed on who God is and what his law commands, and already have a legal code - Sharia - that could be immediately implemented. Having read and listened to several of the members of the "American Taliban" list I can tell you that aside from a general agreement that there is a deity, they have very little in common. For instance, two of the men on this list (Kennedy and Morecraft) are Pastors in my own denomination and when it comes to politics they disagree with each other at plenty of points, and with me at even more!

Still, given the general slant of the list, I guess I should be happy that I'm not on  it... yet.

2) Almost all of the quotes by the cooler heads in the "Taliban list" have been ripped out of context, and some of them are just specious. For instance, the quote from Bush, about being told by God to attack Al-Qaeda was a hearsay statement given to a reporter by Mahmoud Abbas and denied by the White House (Abbas also says the Holocaust never happened, interesting that liberals would find him to be a credible source). The "Crusade" comment was from statements made on the White House lawn on 9/16/2001 and was part of a larger paragraph:

"We need to go back to work tomorrow and we will.  But we need to be alert to the fact that these evil-doers still exist.  We haven't seen this kind of barbarism in a long period of time.  No one could have conceivably imagined suicide bombers burrowing into our society and then emerging all in the same day to fly their aircraft - fly U.S. aircraft into buildings full of innocent people - and show no remorse.  This is a new kind of  -- a new kind of evil.  And we understand.  And the American people are beginning to understand.  This crusade, this war on terrorism is going to take a while.  And the American people must be patient.  I'm going to be patient."

Clearly he meant "Crusade" in the same way that everyone understood that Eisenhower's "Crusade in Europe." Surprisingly our compilers didn't pick up on the fact that Bush also said in the same comments: "And on on this day of - on the Lord's Day, I say to my fellow Americans, thank you for your prayers, thank you for your compassion, thank you for your love for one another. " I mean how awful, not only did he refer to Sunday as "The Lord's Day" he thanked Americans for praying thus implicitly accepting that there was someone out there to pray to! I mean the idea that a grown man could believe in God! [insert patronizing sneer at the stupidity of theism here]

3) The manifest unfairness of the painting with a broad brush approach also drives me crazy. Tony Evans is an excellent pastor and preacher and has done more to improve the lives of the people in his community than all of the various politcos combined. Star Parker is herself an ex-welfare mom, who has done great work in creating an organization aimed at helping other welfare moms to turn their lives around. Still, they must both be villified (and placed in a list with JB STONER!) because they will not tow a liberal agenda and bow at the right altars. How sad when the measure of a person, and whether they are to be villified with vicious epithets and compared to evil murdering fiends and suicide bombers depends solely on their willingness to embrace a liberal political agenda and say the right mantras in the media. Is that really the measure of a man or a woman?

Am I also an "American Taliban" because I don't tow the line and I commit the unforgivable sin of believing in God?

- SEAGOON
Title: American Taliban?
Post by: Ack-Ack on August 25, 2005, 04:57:10 PM
"When science and the Bible differ, science has obviously misinterpreted its data." - Henry Morris (Institute for Creation Research)



Whatta tool!  LMAO!

..and here's an even bigger tool...

"I don't know that atheists should be considered citizens, nor should they be considered patriots. This is one nation under God." -  George Bush Sr. (President of the United States)

Further proof that idiocy is passed down through the generations.




ack-ack
Title: American Taliban?
Post by: Chairboy on August 25, 2005, 05:07:45 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Seagoon
Am I also an "American Taliban" because I don't tow the line and I commit the unforgivable sin of believing in God?

- SEAGOON
Before you destroy your strawman completely, I'd like to interject something.  The problem with the quotes are that they are from various people (some in political office, all influential) advocating that the US become a theocracy.

The Taliban was not dangerous because they believed in god, they were dangerous because they removed the separation of church and state.  Don't believe for a moment that Christianity doesn't have its own versions of the extremes of Afghanistan that can be reached.
Title: American Taliban?
Post by: indy007 on August 25, 2005, 05:25:54 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Chairboy
Don't believe for a moment that Christianity doesn't have its own versions of the extremes of Afghanistan that can be reached.


I for one am very, very grateful we have a seperation of church & state.

Torquemada anybody?
Title: American Taliban?
Post by: Seagoon on August 25, 2005, 05:53:02 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Chairboy
Before you destroy your strawman completely, I'd like to interject something.  The problem with the quotes are that they are from various people (some in political office, all influential) advocating that the US become a theocracy.

The Taliban was not dangerous because they believed in god, they were dangerous because they removed the separation of church and state.  Don't believe for a moment that Christianity doesn't have its own versions of the extremes of Afghanistan that can be reached.


Chairboy,

Please supply some quotes where the following members of the list advocate "that the US become a theocracy":

George W. Bush or George H.W. Bush
Ronald Reagan
Dr. Tony Evans
John Ashcroft
Rick Santorum
Rush Limbaugh
William Rehnquist
Michael Savage

I could include many of the others, but lets just start with them.

Also, if the danger occurs whenever the separation of church state is removed, when do we go to war to change the governments of Europe, many of which have established churches including for instance The Church of England and so on?

Finally, just out of curiousity, what is this Christian equivalent of the Muslim Brotherhood? What is our multinational, unified, fundamentalist, organization with thousands of sub-groups like Hamas & Abu Sayyaff, planning for and working towards the establishment of God's law worldwide and rule by one "caliph" via violent religious Jihad, suicide bombings, revolution and so on? What is our "Commintern"? (Opps my bad, that was a violent worldwide network of atheist revolutionaries).

- SEAGOON
Title: American Taliban?
Post by: Gunslinger on August 25, 2005, 08:12:04 PM
Chairboy maybe you should learn about revelations a bit.  Every time I watch the history channel about Israel or russian dealings in the middle east during the 70s and 80s I think back to the book of revelations.  There were several times were the prophecy seemed to be comeing true.  I don't thing Reagans remarks were too off the wall at all.  I'd like to see them in there full context but just too lazy to look it up right now.

You guys and the liberal party need to keep toating this line that christians and muslim terrorist are one in the same.  It will go over well come election day.
Title: American Taliban?
Post by: Gunslinger on August 25, 2005, 08:39:13 PM
Wow you want to see something funny/scary.  DO a google on Reagan's quote:

"For the first time ever, everything is in place for the Battle of Armageddon and the Second Coming of Christ." (http://tinyurl.com/agwd3)

2130 hits on that EXACT quote.  Look at all these left wing anti-christian websites quoting him.  And you guys wonder why we are so ardent about protecting our religion.  There is an outright movement hellbent on destroying it (pun intended)
Title: American Taliban?
Post by: mosgood on August 26, 2005, 09:05:30 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Seagoon
Of course the poster would no doubt like us to believe that they are all part of a dark cabal aimed at turning the US into a "theocracy" like Afghanistan.

- SEAGOON


Seagoon,  I'm the poster for this thread that you mention above.  While you may think that you are choosen to speak for a God, I do not choose you to speak for me and if you can, so quickly and without facts, come to a conclusion about MY intentions that is so far from the truth then......  well I guess what I'd like to say would be even more judemental as your statement... so I'll pass.

I posted this not to make a statement about repubs or conservatives.  I posted this to bring attention to, what I think are some INDIVIDUALLY atrocious statements by some of the people on that page.  If some of them strike a cord that puts you or someone else on the defense, then that's your dovetail and maybe you should take a look at why it created a reaction instead of immediately reaching for the "My God, religion or Politic is being attacked" card.  

For the record, in my posts I usually give equal billing for my criticisms to repubs and Dems alike.. I just mentioned democrats in my second post because of Rips knee-jerk reaction that was to immediately go on the defense because... why?  Did he feel that those quotes had something to do with him?  I dunno......
Title: American Taliban?
Post by: Sandman on August 26, 2005, 10:26:56 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Gunslinger
Wow you want to see something funny/scary.  DO a google on Reagan's quote:

"For the first time ever, everything is in place for the Battle of Armageddon and the Second Coming of Christ." (http://tinyurl.com/agwd3)

2130 hits on that EXACT quote.  Look at all these left wing anti-christian websites quoting him.  And you guys wonder why we are so ardent about protecting our religion.  There is an outright movement hellbent on destroying it (pun intended)


2130 hits from a country of over 300 million. Hell... that's a trend.
Title: American Taliban?
Post by: Seagoon on August 26, 2005, 02:06:22 PM
Hello Mosgood,

Quote
Originally posted by mosgood
Seagoon,  I'm the poster for this thread that you mention above.  While you may think that you are choosen to speak for a God, I do not choose you to speak for me and if you can, so quickly and without facts, come to a conclusion about MY intentions that is so far from the truth then......  well I guess what I'd like to say would be even more judemental as your statement... so I'll pass.


For what its worth Mosgood, by "the Poster" I meant the person who compiled this list of quotes, most of which have been circulated extensively via politically and theologically liberal blogs ("The Daily Kos" for instance) not the poster of the link on the BB, which I knew was you, and regarding your intentions I assumed that you posted the link because you were "shocked at some of the stuff you read" but believed "that not everything quoted is actually what was said."

I'll stand by my statement regarding the obvious intention of the Compiler of the "quotes" on the webpage.

As far as thinking I was "chosen to speak for God" is concerned, let me address that, because assertions along those lines seem to come up a lot here.

A minister only speaks for God when as part of his ministry he accurately fulfills the commission of God, to whit: "And Jesus came and spoke to them, saying, "All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age." Amen." (Matthew 28:18-20) So he is acting as an ambassador when he does in fact, teach that which Christ has commanded  in His Word (rather than teaching his opinions, preferences, the traditions and inventions of men, and the like).

The majority of my posts here are not done as part of my ministry (you are manifestly not the flock I am responsible for shepherding and serving) and do not rise to the level of pulpit speech. In many if not most of my posts, I am expressing my opinions as a private citizen, rather than pronouncing "Thus sayeth the Lord." Often, because of the nature of the topic or the questions that I am asked, I do end up commenting on what the bible teaches on a particular subject.
 
As it so happens, I did not choose to become a minister entirely by myself neither did I ordain myself. Even the process of training for ministry which began with 4 years of post graduate training at Seminary followed by a year long internship, was something I entered into only after much discussion (especially with my wife, who never intended to become a Pastor's wife) consideration, prayer, and being encouraged by other Christians and Pastors to do so. Evangelical Presbyterians believe that a legitimate calling to the Pastorate requires a concurrence of 3 factors:  "The calling of God by the Spirit, through the inward testimony of a good conscience, the manifest approbation of God’s people, and the concurring judgment of a lawful court of the Church." The concurring judgment is rendered only after one has passed a series of ordination trials, which occur after successfully completing seminary. These include written ordination exams, a supervised ministerial internship, a series of interviews and a final oral exam.

Of course, this method is not foolproof, and inevitably some men not actually called or gifted for ministry do end up getting ordained, and I would be foolish to say that couldn't possibly be the case with myself. From an outside perspective only the test of time will prove whether or not that is the case.

But all of that just to say, I did not simply decide one day "I'm Gonna Speak for God" and hang a shingle out front, nor is it something that I do without a great deal of fear and trembling even today, remembering the warning "My brethren, let not many of you become teachers, knowing that we shall receive a stricter judgment." (James 3:1)

- SEAGOON
Title: American Taliban?
Post by: Seagoon on August 26, 2005, 02:11:21 PM
Hi Sandman,

Quote
Originally posted by Sandman
2130 hits from a country of over 300 million. Hell... that's a trend.


I could be wrong, but I believe Gunsling meant 2,130 links referencing that quote. The top one of which begins this way:

"Everybody knew he was a handsomehunk. Ronald Reagan was famous for not understanding how government works and not particularly caring about it. His job was to read speeches off the Teleprompter, shake hands with foreign dignitaries, pose for pictures, and maybe go out and visit a flag factory or a steel mill every once in a while. Otherwise he was busy sleeping in, eating jellybeans, and watching television."

To be fair however, the phrase "I invented the internet" has 8,540 distinct links.

- SEAGOON
Title: American Taliban?
Post by: Gunslinger on August 26, 2005, 09:13:08 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Seagoon
Hi Sandman,

 

I could be wrong, but I believe Gunsling meant 2,130 links referencing that quote. The top one of which begins this way:

"Everybody knew he was a handsomehunk. Ronald Reagan was famous for not understanding how government works and not particularly caring about it. His job was to read speeches off the Teleprompter, shake hands with foreign dignitaries, pose for pictures, and maybe go out and visit a flag factory or a steel mill every once in a while. Otherwise he was busy sleeping in, eating jellybeans, and watching television."

To be fair however, the phrase "I invented the internet" has 8,540 distinct links.

- SEAGOON


Thank you SEAGOON, while I know some of the posters on this board mean no harm I know in myself and from some of the emails I recieve from my parents I KNOW there is an out right movement against my beleifs .  

I really appreciate your posts on this board because they do give me re-affirmation of what I beleive.  You say things that I dont have  words to say but beeleive.  Please don't stop posting because a thread is too "contriversial" show people what you believe and stand up because that's what matters.  I do not have the vocabulary to defend christianity on this board, and while some may accuse you of fronting a wall of text it is just because they do not have the means to respond.


Guns