Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: 1776 on December 18, 2001, 12:04:00 PM
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I am in the process of selling my house. A realtor just came by to preview it for a potential client. I explained all the work that I had done to improve the house and the dates the work was completed. As she was leaving she remarked that I smoke in the house. I said yes because I own the house, pay the mortage on time and have paid for all the improvements. She insisted that some people would be offended by the fact that I smoked in my own house.
Where on earth does someone feel it is so important to be offended by what goes on in someone's elses house!?!?! What on earth has happened to our society? Geez, if someone is so offended they should be looking to build or rent an apartment!! Or better yet, if they are so easily offended they should be considering suicide to save their sencibilities!!
I am at a loss in the way some people think these days. Thank God my time is short as I couldn't stand living in a society that would want to dictate my and everyone elses lifestyle!!<throws hands in the air in total frustration>
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Heh...it's true that some may dislike the fact that you smoke in the house. I think the realtor (like a car salesman) probably uses "Never been smoked in" as a sales pitch.
Personally...pet odor pisses me off more that a smoker.
BTW does your house have a fireplace? Have you ever used it? Because some people are offended by that.......
<stands next to 1776 and throws arms up>
[ 12-18-2001: Message edited by: skernsk ]
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OZ, you are absolutely correct. I quit almost 2 years ago, but before I did I was vilified as something worse than a baby-fur-seal-pedophile if i lit one up anywhere within 30ft. of a nonsmoker OUTDOORS! Sheeeesh.
:mad:
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People who don't smoke or who don't buy cigs are child abusers!! Part of the taxes on tobacco are used to fund health care for under-privileged children. If your not paying these taxes then you are killing poor children by denying them healtcare. So you non-smokers should buy 1 carton of cig a week and give then to your smoking friends and then you will be back in the good graces of our liberal minded friends. You can show your face in public too, just as long as you don't offend anyone :)
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I had an experience with an anti-smoking-femanist-nazi about 5 years ago. I was OUTSIDE smoking a stogie on my break time. This nice :rolleyes: lady walking to the door from the parking lot. She's about 10' away from me and I can hear her mumbling about the 2nd hand smoke and she has a really pissed off look on her face, as if I had just puked on her child or something. She said "do you have to do that here?!" in a real smart bellybutton tone. I told her well they already kicked me out of buildings, as I opened the door for her.
The next words out of her mouth were, "I don't need any help from you!" again in a really smart bellybutton tone. So I simply said "ok" and let go of the door. Imagine my delight when the door then hit her square in the face :) and just about knocked her flat on her fat arse. Now I did actually feal sorry at what had happened and apologized to her. But she simply snorted that I had done it on purpose. So I smiled at her, rolled my eyes and said "I thought you didn't need any help from me" then I blew a puff of smoke in her general direction :)
Best part was that, ironicly, I got to work at the exact same time as her for about the next 2 weeks. We'd have to take the elevator together heheheh I smiled at her eveytime I saw her and each time got the "I hope you rot in Hell look"
Basicly I say screw em! I don't want to "offend" anybody. But if I'm in a designated smoking area and somebody tells me to stop they're going to at the very least get a smart bellybutton statement, if not down right get told to F*** off! Depending upon the size of the person ofcourse ;)
God I do wish I could quit these damned things.....
[ 12-18-2001: Message edited by: Udie ]
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Years ago I was selling a car. A woman acted very agitated, and asked if I smoked in the car. I said. "Yes. I have gotten a few blow jobs in it also".
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I have owned this place since 1994. I wonder how many times I have farted in the house? heheeeeee LOL
Now that could be offensive :D!!!
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I smoked for 12 years....quit about a year ago. Smoke bothers me now. I go to a sports bar to catch games on Sundays, I have to take a shower as soon as I get home to wash the stench off of me. Most of the time I leave with a raging headache too. I never complain or give anyone a hard time, but would I prefer it if they didn't smoke in there? Hell yes.
You should be able to do whatever the hell you want in your own house though.
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If smoke now bothers you you shouldn't be going to places that you know are hangouts for smokers!! There are so few and you as a non-smoker have more choises why go to a smoking bar???
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it didnt have anything to do with squelching your rights it was about market value.
smoking leaves a smell in your house and turns the walls yellow. you arent going to want to buy a house if the smell of smoke bothers you.
the realtors job is to maximize the sale - anything that depreciates the house will get mentioned.
i smoked for 12yrs glad i quit.
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I've never smoked and honestly never had a desire to try it. Smoke bugs me, makes my eyes water up and my voice just goes to nothing. As a bartender, I just endured it and tried to be polite to those who did.
But, there are those who are considerate of it, and understand not everyone wants smoke blown at them. And there are those who, be damned what the rest of the world thinks, he's gonna smoke and blow it in your face in a defiant act of NYAH NYAH. I just hope I'm there to turn off the life support on those guys :)
Certainly, its your house and your rules. And some people, who are hyper-allergic, will react to your house if it does have the smoke-scent to it. I suspet the realtor just wanted you to be aware of that. Much as there are some apartments where if the previous tennants had pets, it would be sheer misery of someone who is allergic to go there. I don't have any allergies (thank you, God) but my brother has asthma pretty bad. Bright kid, has been on inhalers all his life, now he inhales Camels. 4 year degrees don't buy common sense, eh?
I wouldnt get to offended by it. I'd say quit and try the Patch but Im told those are harder then hell to light up :p
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I have smoked for 30+ years and I will be damned if I will roll over for others as they wouldn't do it for me,so :P
If people are so offended then why don't they ban together to have it outlawed? Or is it because our liberal friends will have to raise taxes on something that you may like in order to make up the short-fall.
Alcohol has sure killed more people then cigs. SUV's and cell phones should all be taxed out of existance due to their health hazards!! Yeah, you all should live like I tell ya how to live. I know you(meaning our society) sure want to tell me how I am supposed to live.
I am just at my wits ends regarding this type of issue. It's so easy to avoid anything unpleasent in your life if you take the approiate action to avoid instead of expecting other to conform to your style.
What the hell has happened to America anyway?
Are we all a bunch of dependent wimps now? If so, count me out!!! I know what I like and avoid anything that I don't like, it's so easy. Try it. it's easy!!!
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Originally posted by LePaul:
But, there are those who are considerate of it, and understand not everyone wants smoke blown at them. And there are those who, be damned what the rest of the world thinks, he's gonna smoke and blow it in your face in a defiant act of NYAH NYAH.
I fit both of those catagories. I know what it's like to be bothered by smoke. I can't stand when somebody smokes in a car, that I'm in, and leaves the windows rolled up. I also don't like smokey rooms or bars. More than that though, I don't like being asked or told not to smoke in a smoking area[/i] normaly though if asked politely I will grant the request and put out the smoke, but usualy if I'm the only person smoking. I won't get "rabid" until my rights have been trampled on :rolleyes: because somebody got rude....
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I smoked for 32 years, just quit last october. There is no WAY you'd of kept me from smoking in my own house. They don't want the smell, well they can always paint!
Now someone elses house or car I'd always ask before even thinking about lighting up.
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Ah, some more good reading from Steve Martin's Cruel Shoes.
The Smokers
He lit the cigarette and smoked it down to the filter in one breath. He silently thanked the Winston Company for being thoughtful enough about his health to include a filter to protect him. So he lit up another. This time he didn't exhale the squeaky-clean filtered smoke, but just let it nestle in his lungs, filling his body with that good menthol flavor. Some more smokers knocked on his door and they came in and all started smoking with him.
"How wonderful it is that we're all smoking," he thought.
Everyone smoked and smoked and after they smoked they all talked about smoking and how nice it was that they were all smokers and then they smoked some more.
Smoke, smoke, smoke. They all sang "Smoke That Cigarette" and "Smoke Gets In Your Eyes." Then the smokers smoked one more cigarette and left him alone in his easy chair, about to relax and enjoy a nice quiet smoke. And then his lips fell off.
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[ 12-18-2001: Message edited by: Creamo ]
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What the hell are you talking about guys? Nobody is offended or cares that you smoke or passes the moral judgement on you any more then they pass moral moral judgement on people eating candies and geting fat.
The problem most smokers are not aware of is that many people find the smoke nauseating even in extremely minute quantities. That smell can easily be felt at over 100 feet and it stays in a car or a house forever. Even if freshly painted over and not immediately detectable, the smell eventually permeats through the paint - requiring expensive stripping and repainting.
Even though concentration is likely to be too small to cause real second-hand smoke effects, the smell is enough to cause headeache, nausea and sleep problems.
People who smoke inhale such huge quantities of the pure tobacco smoke, that their smell receptors are numbed down and often cannot detect the amounts that make non-smokers sick. Or if they detect them, they do not even notice, being accustomed to the stuff and finding it pleasant.
People who bunch up in front of the buildings entrance smoking have no idea (or no care) that many people (myself included) have to hold their breath for 10-20 yards entering the building or passing by.
After such a brief passage my clothes and hair may take half an hour to air out the smell to the level where I cannot detect it.
When such a smoker enters an elevator, the disgusting smell is overpowering - your breath emits it for at least a few minutes after you put out your cigarette but the enclosed elevator is the worst.
Obviously I would never buy a car that was smoked in because I would feel it right away.
I would not buy a house that was subjected to more then occasional smoke unless I am sure that the smell is all gone. Freshly-painted walls or deodorants will only make me look harder. Not that only tobacco smells are important when buying the house - chemical, pet or cooking smells are just as irritating.
While I consider behaviour of many smokers offencive, I give them benefit of a doubt because they usually do not even understand how intrusive their action is. Same can be said about the people who abuse fragrances/aftershave.
Nevertheless when commented, some of them behave as is they are offended and prosecuted for the habit that has nothing to do with others - while it obviously does.
I am sure that many dumb anti-smokers could help the situation without antagonozing the others side if they took time to explain a problem in a civil way.
At that I pass absolutely no moral judgement on the smokers - there are plenty of pursuits that risk/damage health (like skiing) and any individual is free to excercise them if that does not interfere with others.
In fact, anti-tobacco legislation nonwithstanding, it is proved that smoking is very beneficial for society. It creates lots of jobs, really calms the nerves of people and make them easier to deal with (unless they are out of cigarettes :)) and then kills them quickly and relatively cheaply around the time they stop being productive.
Look at Russia - with male average life expectancy under their retirement age (partially due to almost total smoking of nasty russian stuff) they save a lot of money.
miko
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Actually, the walls have absolutely nothing to do with retaining the smell of cigarettes, cigars or any kind of smoke.
It's the carpets, pure and simple. If you got no carpets, then you got no problem cuz once all your stuff is moved out you just have to leave the windows open for a week with a few random deodorizers placed about the house.
-SW
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Originally posted by SWulfe:
Actually, the walls have absolutely nothing to do with retaining the smell of cigarettes, cigars or any kind of smoke.
true, but they get yellow like your teeth hands and lungs.
i remember taking a picture off of my wall after smoking in a house for 3 years. it was white underneath and the walls had turned so grdually i had no idea how bad it was. its outline stuck out like a sore thumb!
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The walls (paint) can be discolored by the smoke/nicotine, as well as the carpets, windows and curtains.
The smell itself is virtually impossible to get rid of without recarpeting and repainting with a sealing paint.
It is something the realtor needs to communicate as a potential issue with you. Its called doing her job. Believe it or not, some people don't want to live in a house that they think smells really bad.
AKDejaVu
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You really shouldn't complain about peoples opinions, at least you dont have as stupid laws as we have in Finland.
Smoking is prohibitet practically in all public places, bars need to have completely isolated large smokefree areas etc. There has been also discussion about prohibiting smoking in your own balcony! And of course that kind of thing would pass without a whine, strangest thing is that nobody ever complains about these laws. :rolleyes:
PS. I have never smoked.
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I can't beleive my eyes when I read that a non-smoker has carpet in a house. You had better do some serious research regarding the emmissions related to carpet. You will be shocked!! The first thing I looked for in a house was one with hard wood floors!! First thing I did was strip out the carpet!!
Carpet will kill ya!!
Now back to the subject: This idiot realitor should have kept her mouth shut and just informed her client that she wouldn't be interested in my house because it didn't meet the clients criteria. No, this moron has to make a totally uncalled for comment out of the blue. I hope she has an oportunity to show this house as I will not change the price other then the asking price with any of her clients. Too bad she doesn't understand she can't be an idiot if she is going to be in public contact work. She should get a government job in management where her talents for stupidity will be appreciated :)
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I used to smoke until I crashed a motorcycle into a palm tree and broke my back. In the hospital there was no smoking allowed at all. My buddy brought me my first can of Copenhagen while I was in there, begining a very bad 7 year addiction.
Always had snuff in my mouth, and nobody at work ever knew about it if I didn't want them to know. I never spit. Kept the can in my sock.
When the dentist sent me for a biopsy because of tissue changes in my lip, I quit. I was crazy as a toejamhouse rat for about a week, continually grabbing in my sock for that can. I used atomic fire ball jaw breakers to get me through that.
Now, I'm condescending to smokers and dippers.
And where was the liberal outrage when Clinton encouraged that young person to use a tobacco product in the oval office? :D
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Originally posted by mora:
There has been also discussion about prohibiting smoking in your own balcony! And of course that kind of thing would pass without a whine, strangest thing is that nobody ever complains about these laws. :rolleyes:
Maybe because the law is very reasonable? When a guy living downstairs comes out to smoke on the street, I often have to close a window on my second floor because of the smoke - depending on the wind conditions.
There are plenty of noxious but relatively safe substances that I could release into the air and irritate my neighbours with. I am sure nobody would object if my neighbours complain and I am made to stop my activity. Why smokers have to be excepted? Just because it pleases then to smell something I find intrusive and damaging to my well-being?
We have plenty of laws protecting us from each other. You cannot produce loud noise or even not-so-loud noise if it's past bedtime.
You cannot emit irritating chemicals. You cannot emit electromagnetic and other kinds of radiation above sertain limits. What is so different about tobacco smoke?
If your balcony is not close to someone else's window, you can turm on loud music, light a cigarette, rub yourself with a skunk oil and immolate yourself for all anybody cares...
miko
[ 12-18-2001: Message edited by: miko2d ]
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Originally posted by 1776:
Carpet will kill ya!!
Pretty much everything enjoyable kills us, including the nice carpet. The issue I have is other people pleasure killing me or causing me headache and nausea.
The realtor is really dumb. She probably did not know herself why people dislike the houses with tobacco smike.
She should have advised you on what changes you could make to make the house more presentable.
She did have to disclose the smoke to the perspective buyers - even if they can detect it themselves, it is not good for realtor reputation when a cliend has to lose part of his/her day to check up a house that is definitely not suitable for them.
She was also right to warn you about the fact that she is going to disclose it. I am sure she could have done so without offending you.
Too bad she doesn't understand she can't be an idiot if she is going to be in public contact work.
That's what you get with low unemployment - all smart people are working on better jobs.
Have you tried buying a house recently? You can tell a realtor exactly what you need in a house and he/she will still waste your time with houses obviously not fitting the description or outside the specified price range - wasting your time.
Have you considered "For sale by owner" method? You save 6% on her commissions which gives you extra leeway in price negotiations.
miko
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What kills me is the relative health problems of smoking versus urban living. Miko, I take it you live in a City? The air there, without smoke will kill you faster, give you more irritation, etc, than any amount of second hand smoke. Vehicle exahust fumes? Make me puke. Perfume? swells my throat shut. Would I ever complain? Fark no. I remove myself from the situation if I can't handle it, and deal with it if I can't leave.
You do yer vice, and I'll do mine and we should all STFU about the other persons.
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She did have to disclose the smoke to the perspective buyers - even if they can detect it themselves, it is not good for realtor reputation when a cliend has to lose part of his/her day to check up a house that is definitely not suitable for them.
This is totally incorrect. She HAS to disclose it to perspective buyers. Its called full disclosure. Any realtor that doesn't do this can be held liable. The same is true of auto dealers.
AKDejaVu
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Udie,
Get to your doctor and get some Welbutrin. Stuff made quitting a snap, and I smoked for over 20 years, failing many many times in my tries at quitting cold turkey.
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i have smoked since i was about 18. im 23 now.
most of my friends smoke, but are all considerate of non smokers...and amazingly of each other.
we wont smoke before meals and never during. (although i have this one friend who smokes while everyone eats, hell he smokes while he eats...sick)
if i or we are in a restaurant and waiting for our food while nearby patrons are eating, we wont smoke.
it is not like anyone ever told us that it bothered them, it was just common senseand courtesy.
as far as your situation goes 1776, id be pissed that she said something to you, but not if she said something to a prospective buyer unbeknowsnt to you.
i have no intention of quiting in the near future because after being pissed for about a year straight i recently decided to give up the bottle over the butt, and a guy needs something(i dont say stupid things when i smoke or miss work the next day.)
my advice to smokers is to remember what is was like before you smoked (though for 1776, he prolly cant remember his phone number :)
j/k
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Originally posted by AKDejaVu:
This is totally incorrect. She HAS to disclose it to perspective buyers. Its called full disclosure. Any realtor that doesn't do this can be held liable. The same is true of auto dealers.
AKDejaVu
For smoking? If the buyer asks yeah I can agree with that, but if they don't ask. Smoking in a house is not like faulty construction. Your 3 year old isn't going to fall between the ballusters on the stairs because you smoked. The roof isn't going to collapse beause you smoked. Most house sales include new carpet/paint, so any odor should be taken care of then. There's no threat to public health because somebody smoked in a house and then put the house on the market.
People are freakin babies now man. Boohoo you smoke, that makes my popsicle hurt :(
Tah Gut,
Thanks for the info man, I'll ask my doctor this thursday when I go in. Although he's an orthopedic surgeon, I wonder if he'll prescribe it to me...
[ 12-18-2001: Message edited by: Udie ]
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Good lord, nicotine has apparently affected your brain and enhanced your fight or flight responce to tardtanic proportions. Perhaps she was just commenting that some people would be offended at the odor and discoloration caused to the walls, and inevitable smoke smell-laden dust throughout your ventilation/heating system. As a realitor, she knows this and is passing the information on to you so you are prepared for it. As a non-smoker who can't stand cigarette smoke (but am courteous to smokers), I'd bet I would be able to smell it in your house instantly if you've smoked in there that many years. Carpets or no.
Yes, you have the right to smoke in your own home. And yes, potential buyers have the right to be offended by the after affects and not buy your house. Simple enough.
Now quit crying! And, uh, could you put that smoke out please, this bar is kinda crowded and I'm trying to enjoy my drink while the girlies dance.
SOB
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She insisted that some people would be offended by the fact that I smoked in my own house.
BTW... I do believe you may be mistating things a bit here. She said people would be offended that you smoked in your house, or that they would find the odor offensive? One is people prying.. they other is people deciding what house they want to buy.
AKDejaVu
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Sorry, Deja, you in no way shape or form have to tell someone that you smoked in your house, or fornicated or drank. Sturctural defects and repairs yes, habits no.
Of course, if you smoke in your house they can tell instantly, so it is moot. I smoke up to 3 packs a day, but never in the house or office(work office, not my computer room), or in anyone else's car, home or place of business('cept bars, that is what they are for).
[ 12-18-2001: Message edited by: Gadfly ]
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Ive smoked for 8 years. I've never smoked in MY house because i dislike the lingering smell + my gf would kill me :). If I go to someones house and they smoke inside I will happily smoke with them, otherwise I prefer smoking outside.
If you dont like whats happening in the US 1776, you should try Australia. The only indoor public places you are allowed to smoke anymore are pubs or clubs. Even these places have non-smoking areas. Just lately there has been talk of banning smoking in these places too and making all smokers go outside. I'm a bit up in the air about this one. I can see the good points but I know how much it would piss me off. I go to the pub to get away, to have a cig and a beer. Overall it doesnt really worry me though cos i do the bulk of my smoking at home.
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What she implied was that I had no right to use the very house I paid for, the very house I improved over the years, to my own likings. It is in her mind as communicated in her comment that I was to maintain the house for her benefit and her clients benefit for the last 7 years.
I mean how arrogent can ya get!! That is why she is an idiot. She doesn't understand that people are different and have different life styles. Her judgment and poor people relations will soon get her out of a job if she keeps practicing in such a mannor.
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Originally posted by Udie:
There's no threat to public health because somebody smoked in a house and then put the house on the market.
There's no threat to puiblic health if somebody commits suicide, dies violently or has AIDS, yet until recently, in our state, these situations had to be disclosed to the prospective buyers.
just sayin <tm>
dh
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Originally posted by Horn:
There's no threat to puiblic health if somebody commits suicide, dies violently or has AIDS, yet until recently, in our state, these situations had to be disclosed to the prospective buyers.
just sayin <tm>
dh
smoking has nothing to do with AIDS, suicide or violence, unless you consider smoking slow suicide. I don't know if you have to even notify about those here in Texas. I can see having to notify about violent death and maybe suicide, but not AIDS (unless it mutates to be airborn). They have nothing to do with the structural/mechanical safety or stability of the house. Smoke smell is no problem to get rid of with new paint and carpet.
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Originally posted by Udie:
smoking has nothing to do with AIDS, suicide or violence, unless you consider smoking slow suicide. I don't know if you have to even notify about those here in Texas. I can see having to notify about violent death and maybe suicide, but not AIDS (unless it mutates to be airborn)
I agree totally. But it has everything to do with the perceived market value of the home.
dh
(she just handled it crudely)
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Look guys, this thread has nothing to do with smoking or not smoking. It has to do with how people react to other peoples lifestyle. My second post about non-smokers being child abusers shoud have clearly made the point.
Is it so hard in today's society to let people have choice? Geez, I mean, is it now unreasonable to do what you do without getting permission from those that are arrogent and self appointed enough to proclaim what is best for us peasants?
Talk about intolerance, I saw it in human flesh today!!
[ 12-18-2001: Message edited by: 1776 ]
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I have a theory about this. I think the surgeon generals warning on smokes causes allergies, nausea, so forth. Through out my boyhood. And as a young man. I never once heard a complaint. As soon as the roadkill PC police thing started. All of a sudden people became afflicted. It must have it been the warnings that did it.
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Sorry, Deja, you in no way shape or form have to tell someone that you smoked in your house, or fornicated or drank. Sturctural defects and repairs yes, habits no.
Sorry... but you are differentiating between what you have to tell someone and what a realtor has to tell them. The whole point is moot anyways because anyone that cares is going to notice anyways.
And there is a big difference between 2 of the 3... of course depending on how sloppy your sex is. Smoke will actually cause damage to paint, carpet and curtains. The other two only stand the possibility of damaging paint, carpet or curtains.
A realtor, who sells homes for people, can't figure out why someone would risk devaluing their home. That is hardly an unusual reaction. The realtor tells someone that because of his smoking, people may not like the home. Then this is what we get back from the smoker.
TO ALL SMOKERS: SMOKING MAKES YOUR HOME SMELL BAD. SMOKING MAKES YOUR CAR SMELL BAD. SMOKING MAKES YOUR CLOTHES SMELL BAD.
AKDejaVu
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One more time. No one has the right to tell anyone how to use their property. Only the society has that right and that has to be through lawful means.
Isn't anyone out there upset that we accept some of this PC and don't question it?
I for one am through putting up with this kinda BS and am going to be much more out spoken when a situation like today arises.
Through my life I have always tried to be a gentleman and will continue that same course.
However, when I see this type of arrogence I will point it out directly without sugar coating in the future. I don't think it is unreasonable for others to show a little respect for me if they wish the same from me!!
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Would you rather she have stated more politely that smoking in the house may decrease the value of the house, because some people do not like the smell of it, or should she have said nothing at all and let it go, ignoring her job to get the most possible for your house?
Or are you implying somehow that people who don't want to buy the house if it smells like cigarette smoke are somehow telling you how to live?
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Read the post just above yours. It is clear and has no hidden meanings.
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I used to smoke for a while, and my mother smoked for almost twenty years. I have never entered a home that I can notice someone was smoking in it (unless there IS someone smoking in the couch)
Houses here are made completly out of concrete, maybe the materials used there absorb the smell and tar?
This is outrageous!!
<throws hands and legs in the air in total frustration>
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It's not clear, I'm still not sure what you're objecting to. That someone might not want to purchase the house? The manner in which she informed you of that?
Animal, pretty much any fabric will absorb the smoke and the smell, though it's likely if you were around it for 20 years you wouldn't notice it as much.
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I grew up in a smoking household. My mother smoked as did my dad. He died at age 44 due to complications from TB but not smoke related. My mom quit but an uncle didn't I had to watch him deteriorate due to emphasima (sp). It wasn't pleasant watching someone you care about slowly suffocate to death.
I smoked a bit, mostly a pipe or cigar but just didn't get into it. If the smoke tasted like pipe tobacco smells I'd be a freaking chimney.
I pretty much let it go if anyone smoked around me until my wife got cancer. The chemo make her ultra sensitive. Since I spent so much time with her the chemicals she got through her system started to affect me too and my senitivity increased noticably. I could live with it but m wife really has a hard time breathing even outdoors near a smoker. She doesn't want to be sensitive about it but she has no choice. We limit where we go if there is any smoking going on. If we have to we leave.
1776, I agree with ya, she was an idiot for phrasing it in that way. You will likely have a sale later with someone else. Don't let it get to ya. :)
(http://www.13thtas.com/mav13sig.jpg)
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People that don't smoke often get a wild bug up their tulips when they are 'confronted' with second hand smoke.
Most of 'em have other nasty habits of their own like 'jogging' and 'tree hugging'.
I suggest wearing a fur coat, smoking a big fat Havana seeegar and wearing alligator shoes whilst strolling thru Jack La Lanes enquiring about group smoker accomodations.
Don't forget to ask about whale meat sandwiches in the snak bar.
You'll feel MUCH better soon after Oz.
I know I did. :D
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What the hell are you talking about guys? Nobody is offended or cares that you smoke or passes the moral judgement on you any more then they pass moral moral judgement on people eating candies and geting fat.
Big brother has made it illegal to smoke in a lot of places. Big brother has sponsored roadkill medical studies which show that "second hand smoke kill" zillions of people. It's now illegal in California to smoke in bars or even outdoors at sporting events. Big brother has sued the pants off the tobacco companies. There a lot of people in this country who confuse illegal with immoral, and since a lot of things regarding smoking have been made illegal, they are viewed by many as immoral.
The same thing is happening with firearms.
It will soon happen with candy and cheeseburgers, as soon as socialized medicine becomes all-encompassing. "How dare you eat that cheeseburger. Don't you know that you are increasing your medical risks and costing the taxpayers money!" I expect we will see an approved list of foods similar to the approved list of drugs we have now. Big brother loves to punish victimless crimes.
[ 12-19-2001: Message edited by: funkedup ]
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Originally posted by miko2d:
If your balcony is not close to someone else's window, you can turm on loud music, light a cigarette, rub yourself with a skunk oil and immolate yourself for all anybody cares...
[ 12-18-2001: Message edited by: miko2d ]
Of course there wouldn't be that kind of exceptions in the law. Anyway the only use for balconys in this climate is smoking and when you rarely see someone in a balcony he/she is smoking. I do agree with most of the laws but some of them are just ridiculous and incredibly expensive to follow.
Smoking is btw pretty harmless if compared to masturbation. :) http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Senate/2680/ (http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Senate/2680/)
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I'm sorry Swamp - there's nothing. Just plan on it being tough for a week. :/ - unless you wanted to try the nicotine patch... might be worth a try if you think you need it.
The amounts of nicotine that you (and I) became accustomed to would be enough to put a non-user on the floor. I think the addiction is that much harder to break than ciggys.
You can do it though... just turn that switch in your brain and its over. Then all you have to do is go through the suffering for a week or so. I don't think there is any way around it.
<S> and best wishes :)
Just read Tah Gut's post about Welbutrin. I remember somebody telling me recently about a friend who used Welbutrin successfully to quit a long time cigarette habit. I don't know how it works, but it sounds promising.
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[ 12-19-2001: Message edited by: Gunthr ]
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Just read Tah Gut's post about Welbutrin. I remember somebody telling me recently about a friend who used Welbutrin successfully to quit a long time cigarette habit. I don't know how it works, but it sounds promising.
my understanding is that welbutrin is an antidepressant that was first used in Veterans hospitals. It not only aided in depression, but users began to report that it made quitting the nicotine habit much easier. It is claimed to have a success rate of about 70%.
I was prescribed the stuff and began getting it into my system for about 3 weeks. The idea is to get your body used to the drug. Then you set a date when you will quit. I chose a friday (night), because I could better control what happens over the weekend. The first 2 days were not too bad, but my family basically allowed mee to do whatever, including staying in bed all day feeling sorry for myself.
That was in April 2000, and I've been nicotine free since. I do have to say though, I still get the urge to light one up every so often. Cursed things.
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Sold the house today for more then I expected to a non-smoker. The guy spent 2 hours looking around and made the offer today :) Now my next step is to get rid of all the crap I have aquired over my life that appear meaningless now. It's amazing the stuff you buy and hold onto through your life. As I am moving to a retirement studio apartment I am going to get a nice TV, easy chair, and a computer corner. I think I will be set then. When I get tired of playing AH I can watch TV :)
Life is good :)
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Damn OZ havent ever seen you this piss of sence first met you in AWIII. Now put this anger to good use and turn it on that cancer. Keep on smoking and tell em how it is.
Heres ons for you I live on a corner lot and now own a boat I had it parked on the side of my house alittle tpwards the front yard and was told it was in my front yard. I had to move it from my side yard farther back on the same side yard to make it look like it was in the back yard. Does it make a difference where it is parked if it is still visable from the street.
you ever try to typr with a cat on your lap, I now know how hangtime felt with hairball. :cool:
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Have 2 cats myself :) Lucky is always on my lap when I'm on the puter :)
Geez, is your boat that ugly? Who complained?
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Cigarette smoke permeates everything. I’ve passed on buying used cars simply because of the distinct stale odor of cigarette smoke that will always be there for a non-smoker.
I smoked when I was young for a few years and I can tell you for certain that a smoker cannot appreciate how offensive cigarette odor can be to a non-smoker.
I’d never interfere with someone’s right to smoke so long as I don’t have to breath the smoke. But I also don’t want to pick up the medical bill (through Medicare, Medicaid, or increased health insurance premiums) for smoking related health problems.
Your best bet is to take Yul Brynner's advice.
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"I’d never interfere with someone’s right to smoke so long as I don’t have to breath the smoke. But I also don’t want to pick up the medical bill (through Medicare, Medicaid, or increased health insurance premiums) for smoking related health problems"
If you really feel that way regarding the "health care cost" then you would agree that all smokers shouldn't pay Social Security Tax. Because they will never live long enough to have the exact same benefits as non-smokers. It's only fair,right? And that is your objective that all get the same benefits, right? No more and no less then anyone else,right?
Now, what the heck are going to do with all the fat people, the beer drinkers, cell phone users? Don't their choices increase health care costs too?
I don't think others should have to pick up your healthcare costs because you jog during rush hour and deeply inhale exhoust fumes.
Perhaps you should stand in front of a mirror and you will see the real problem of health care cost.(you are human)
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Are you seriously relating fat people and cell phone users to smokers? Beer drinkers maybe but come on, winging it here, I doubt drinking beer causes 1/10th the health problems that smoking does.
How many people do you think choose to be fat? Or is smoking not something you choose to do? If that's the case then you really should seek help.
If you think there isn’t an epidemic of serious health problems caused by smoking then you’re in denial.
Social Security? If ya haven't noticed it is used to subsidize Medicaid. Maybe smokers should pay a bigger share.
I’m all for personal liberties. So long as I don’t have to pay for (IMO) your foolish choices.
We’ll never see eye-to-eye on this but my right to comment is as free as your right to smoke.
Originally posted by 1776:
"I’d never interfere with someone’s right to smoke so long as I don’t have to breath the smoke. But I also don’t want to pick up the medical bill (through Medicare, Medicaid, or increased health insurance premiums) for smoking related health problems"
If you really feel that way regarding the "health care cost" then you would agree that all smokers shouldn't pay Social Security Tax. Because they will never live long enough to have the exact same benefits as non-smokers. It's only fair,right? And that is your objective that all get the same benefits, right? No more and no less then anyone else,right?
Now, what the heck are going to do with all the fat people, the beer drinkers, cell phone users? Don't their choices increase health care costs too?
I don't think others should have to pick up your healthcare costs because you jog during rush hour and deeply inhale exhoust fumes.
Perhaps you should stand in front of a mirror and you will see the real problem of health care cost.(you are human)
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I consider being alive a health risk. Its bound to get me killed, sooner or later.
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AKIron, I'm sure we can find somthing you do that cost us all in additional taxes. Are you one of the fat ones? Do you ever have a drink of booze? Are you of low income and eat incorrectly? Have you ever had a McDonald's? I'm positive that you are a burden to the healthcare cost of us all :( Name one human being that isn't eventually going to cost us all? Now you know why the Liberal Democrats hit such a home run with their healthccare platform. They can always isolate a small group and blame them for the "additional costs" and tax the heck out of it. Like sheep to the slaughter people fall for their insane ideas :( We each should be paying for our own health care. If we did it would become affordable again like it was when I was a child. No need for insurance. Hospitals locally controled by the community they serve. We have lost so much since the government has "helped".
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Im with easymo been dieing now for 41 years just waiting for to happen is all. :cool:
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I quit in Feb 2001 (wow, been a while now), after smoking 2.5 packs a day for 10+ years.
I tellya, I can really smell it when I enter the home or car of a smoker. I bet it's a lot worse for ex-smokers, because we were so used to it.
Now, I doubt it would keep me from buying a house, since you can air it out and clean it. But a car - maybe. The smell gets in the upholstery and stuff, and as an ex smoker, you just don't need that reminder.
I got no problem with people smoking, especially outdoors. That's just ludicrous. I'm not one of those facist anti-smokers. I would recommend folks quit though - it's not that hard if you just make up your mind :)
Spitboy -SW-
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1776; I'm not saying we shouldn't help those that deserve it. I'm saying I resent the high cost of health care that my (much too high) taxes help pay for when someone does something they know to be harmful.
If you want to drive a motorcycle without a helmet, fine. But if you can't afford to pay the million dollar hospital bill to keep you alive after you tangle with a car then too bad, pull the plug. I see smoking pretty much the same way.
I'm for personal liberty to the point I don't think we should have laws that prevent people from killing themselves however they choose, including illegal drugs. I just don't want to have to pay for someone else's foolish mistakes.
If I have to pay for your mistakes then I ought to and eventually will have a say in what you do. Is that what you want?
FYI - I haven't been a burden on anyone (my wife might disagree) since I was 17 thirty years ago and I've paid taxes every year since I was 14. Barring any catastrophic illness (knock on wood) I'll never be a burden on you or society.
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1776; having reread your post I see we are pretty much in agreement about who should pay for health care.
I'm not normally this "preachy" on any subject. These things just kinda build up and this board is a good vent. Anyhow, light 'em if ya got 'em ;)
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AKIron, if I read your posts correctly we are more in agreement. Government has no business in the health care industry. Government should be in the business of protecting citizens and let the free enterprise system flourish. When Government gets involved prices rise and services diminish, everytime. I still want to see just one government program that has lived up to the promise that was sold to the American people. I can't think of one that doesn't do more harm then good :(
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Hoover Dam! :cool:
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Nope, WPA project and WPA was a huge failure :) If ya said WWII I would give you a point,cep WWII is what the government is supposted to do :) Mandaed in the Constitution :) Which makes my point when they address what they are supposed to do it generally works :)