Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: humble on August 25, 2005, 02:19:52 PM
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I havent been flying much over the last month or so but broke out my trusty -1 for a "dawn patrol" hop early this AM. I happend to be dumped near the bisquit HQ (AK's are flying niggits as of now). Since they're was enough "action" on the DAR I rolled where I was (Rooks won the "war" while I was up so maybe was a bad choice:))....
Anyway, we had Nikki's spitties and a 190 ovehead so I got caught up in the general melee...cleared 1 spitty of a fellow niggit and got bounced by the 2nd...forced the overshoot...sprayed a few at him and spitty #1 screamed on in (wingies)...went a few round robins till one of em locked on in....did the only sane thing and hit the emergency brakes:)....got the puppy down to 75 IAS and finally forced an overshoot (after getting dinged up a bit) and hosed him down as he egreesed (got kill a bit later)...cleaned up and scooted out of dodge while assessing damege...big hole in cockpit (20mm?) plus assorted tickles all over but just 1 wing fuel tank porked...got a warning on a mossie inbound (vox indicated he was a serious killer){later saw the "**** landed 5 kills} so they werent exagerating. Since I was up and way from our base I headed toward the nearest enemy base (A17 I think) and happened apon "MR Mossie" rolling back out.
Now this was nowhere near a "fair fight" [thank god]....
I rolled in on him and was pretty amazed at how agile the bird appears to be for something so big. It took me 2 or 3 pretty serious attacks (without landing a single hit to the best of my knowledge) to size him up...and if it wasnt for the awful roll rate and pitiful slow speed performance in the vertical I wouldnt have had the 4th (I think) pass. Finally went "all in" and left my gear and flaps down and caught him nuts on in his reverse....but if I hadnt of literally blown him up he's have had me dead to rights at 100 or so with my underwear hanging out:)....
Anyway I keep reading all the ENY and "this or that plane" is porked/should be perked etc....and once again its driven home to me just how little the "plane" matters compared to the meistro....
Don't blame the wand....its the conducter that counts.....
As for mossies....well I think I'll be careful around em for awhile:)
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Mossies are a lot more of a fighter than most people make them out to be. They certainly aren't the best, but they are capable and all it takes is one moment's firing solution and they erase you.
At 40 ENY the Mosquito Mk VI ensures that there is always a capable multi-role fighter available.
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Sure suprised me how quickly he was able to crank it around. I dont think I landed a single 50 cal in either the 1st or 2nd pass on what I thought were pretty good attack profiles....he simply couldnt get back around on the reverse quick enough to get any type of a shot...but had I made the mistake of trying to saddle up or dumped to much E on either pass he'd of had me easily....its tough when you dont see a plane pushed normally...you dont have any real idea of what it can do in the right hands...
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hehe I always get scared when I see a Mossie or A20 keeps me honest. I took them for an easy kill once and they cleaned my clock Bullz kick my rear in a heartbeat. I watch that fillm once in a while to remind myself of whata good driver can do.
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What was the question, again? ;)
W~
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Originally posted by Wind
What was the question, again? ;)
W~
Question is what are the real capabilities of a mossie as a "fighter"....I've always respected the front end of it. But never really viewed it as anything but lunch otherwise. Since I knew who the pilot was (at least 99% sure)...I was a bit more careful then I'd normally have been. Had I not it's questionable who'd have snacked on whom.....
Even so I ended up with a "T-Bone" snapshot vs the "Semi-tracking" shot I'd flown for. I've run into {translate to been hosed by} both this particular mossie driver and others....but cant remember a real "dog fight" with one.
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heya humble, that was a nice little fight we had.:) I reupped hoping for another but the map changed just as we got into icon range.
I would chat more but i've just come back from the pub + have to go to work early in the morning. I'll post more when i come home in the afternoon.
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It was a fun fight (not at all a fair one though). I kind of figured it had to be you since you didnt head for town ack or pull up into a vertical HO. Once you totally avoided the 1st pass I knew for sure.
Was very very nice flying....saw you throw out some lead in the vertical but noticed how quickly you tucked the back down. Basically it looked like you simply didnt have any E to play with at all....makes it awful tough if the other guy keeps it in the semi vertical....
I had to take care of the horses (we have 5) then head on out to work or I'd of looked for you again. Be a tough nut to crack in a co-e situation.
thanks again for a very entertaining encounter <>....
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Humble,
One of the secrets is how much fuel it is carrying at the time. The Mossie carries a max of 540 gallons internally, that is well over 3,000lbs of fuel. If it doesn't need to fly for 90 minutes (and who in the MA needs to do that?) the pilot should always take 50%, or 25% and DTs.
On 25% fuel I fought Eskimo's Bf109F-4 for over a minute I think (it is hard to calculate time in a fight, I am frankly poor at it.), with a lot of manuevering. He lit me on fire in the end, but it wasn't an autokill for his 109F-4 in a close dogfight.
As I said earlier, the Mossie is capable fighter, but far from the best. I think that many people play "goon" in it though. They get attacked and just give up, thinking the situation is hopeless. You can see a bit of this on the forums now and then when people make lists of fighters and bombers in the game and put the Mossie in the bomber category and the Bf110G-2 in the fighter category. The Mossie is, at minimum, as good a fighter (I think it is a better fighter) as the Bf110G-2. But people seem locked into "Mossie is an unarmed bomber that is helpless if attacked and can't run" mode.
Basically there are to modes I fight in when in a Mossie. I either play it safe and conserver my energy if I have a advantage in position and am fighting an aircraft that doesn't dominate it. If I am at a disadvantage I go ultra-agressive, using anything and everything I can think of to kill a fighter that has me at a disadvantage or is a fighter that does everything better as a fighter. The two hardest fighters for me to beat are the La-7 and Typhoon. The Bf109F-4 through Bf109G-10 and Fw190s are hard as well. N1K2's and Spitfires are comparitively easy as are P-51s, though P-51s should be in the same category as the La-7 and Typhoon.
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I've flown 4 hops in it since I posted....all in the attack mode [4 x 500lbers and 75% fuel]. The 1st hop I dropped my ord's (tough to bomb with so far) and got 4 kills still had 20 min flying time plus 400 or so 20mm so I headed over toward where a squadie was (elfie)....he was down in the weeds so I went in and ended up chasing nomde's p47N (mossie cant catch the N even with initial E adv)...got a 5th kill (not Nomde) and died in a HO....
I've found it to be an awesome E fighter....and obviously very deadly. I set the 20mm seperate from the .303's and can see how you can rack up some serious lumber with it.
Obviously its a big target and as you mentioned it lights up a bit to easily....but all in all is a suprisingly fun ride. I'll have to try it with 25% and DT's:)
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Originally posted by humble
... and died in a HO....
You died in HO being in Mossie?! Who was that super-puper monster who survived HO with Mossie?
Little falsehood makes bs everything else.
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LOL....
I dont have the time or reason to BS, it was a P47N. I'd already been hit by an la-5 and something else.
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I see no reason to doubt humble. If I HO in the mossie more often than not i die- the mossie is a pretty large target, but it's my pilot that more often than not gets killed.
Humble i generally fly around with 50% fuel, if it's a close furball i'll up with 25%. I also fire off all the .303- i don't need them so i get rid of some weight. If it has an effect or not i don't know, it could just be a placebo but that's good enough for me.:)
I generally try to fly the mossie aggressively. I burn off E to get the angle so i can get a snap shot- that's all the mossie needs. I pop out a notch or two of flaps to aid in turns, however i'll only leave them out for half a circle or so because if they are left out it leaves the mossie just hanging in the air. I love forcing people to over shoot- the mossie bleeds E so well it pretty easy to do. The only plane i really hate fighting against is surprisingly the f4u family. It's worrying seeing them pop out flaps and gear and staying right behind you!:eek:
Watch out for the stall, if you get into one nose down+ full left rudder, should get you out of it. It's bene quite some time that i've not recovered from one (unless i've done it at 500ft). Just because the stall can be lethal don't be afraid to go vertical to rope someone- it can do hammerheads fine.
I hope you have lots of fun in the mossie humble. It was a nice fight.
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Switched to 25% and DT's after another post above (Karnak?)....kept the 2 x500 internal bombs for now. Unless you flat out get caught in a horde its not a bad ride at all. Only real problem is the generally poor vis. Fought a couple of 1 on 1's...had no problem with a P-47...just as you said forcing the overshoot was pretty easy and he couldnt seem to shake me or extend out of dodge (chewed thru an awful lot of 20mm though)...ran into a spitty coming out....1st bounce was easy...couple of good evasives but caught him solid on third pass...he reupped and I'd extended so it ended up as a poss E merge for me vs a true bounce...couldnt get saddled up on him and we went a couple rounds before I got TKO'd by a tree. I found I was able to reverse back to him from 1.5 and avoid giving him a shot but couldnt convert to a decent shot vs the spitty (IX). I thik I've got the clips...I'll attach em if I do...all critique welcome...
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Originally posted by humble
LOL....
I dont have the time or reason to BS, it was a P47N. I'd already been hit by an la-5 and something else.
Scores-> Kill stats->Player vs. Model, Tour 67
akhumble vs p47n -> zero kills.
I know , you will say that it was assist. And it was La5 (stats - > 1 kill of La5 on akhumble in Mossie).
PS: If you lost HO in Mossie vs anything you need to refresh your skills. It is just impossible.
PSS: Actually, it wasn't HO. You was killed in front deflection shot, and you had no chance to shoot back - you was much low and at about 25-30 degrees.
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Dude what is with your hostitlity? Get out of this thread.
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Originally posted by thrila
Dude what is with your hostitlity? Get out of this thread.
Sorry, I didn't know that this is private discussion.
I have gotten out.
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I said I died in a HO....I never said I killed a P47N.
So 1st learn to read....
2nd,
Anytime, anywhere, any plane...
Is that clear enough for you.
As for your analysis....
You dont have a clue about my skills...but feel free to find out anytime I'm up.
I was in a 2 on 8 or 9 on the deck near an enemy base...my squadie had just died and I was almost bingo fuel. I told the guy I was with to make a run for it and tried to clear his 6...I turned into an La-5 that was making a pass....hit me as I tried to force the overshoot...as I scissored back for a shot I turned right into a P-47 at about 1.8...with no E to evade I just leveled out and opened up.
Was nomde's crew, one of them got the kill...dont know it it was the jug or min lala.
I don't know who pissed in your cheerios son, but dont take it out on me.
http://www.azhacker.com/images/mossie&jug.ahf
BTW, this is the film of the fight I was discussing, which was a P47D40....
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Originally posted by humble
I said I died in a HO....I never said I killed a P47N.
So 1st learn to read....
I didn't say you killed. Stat says you didn't kill and wasn't killed. So 1st learn to understand.
2nd,
Anytime, anywhere, any plane...
Is that clear enough for you.
As for your analysis....
You dont have a clue about my skills...but feel free to find out anytime I'm up.
[/B]
I do have clue. I have killed you in your Mossie.
And I know who are you, you killed me so many times that I gave up to count.
Only what I want to say - it wasn't HO. That is it. Nothing more.
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The P47N is the plane who finished me off, from my FE it was nose to nose....or as close as I could get it. If you where there then you know that there were just two of us left at the end vs a gaggle taking off.
As for your "nothing more"....
Little falsehood makes bs everything else
Sounds like you called me a liar over some trivial BS.
If you were the P47 (or one of the other planes) then you know the cicumstances. I was actually clear and reversed back to the other guy to try and clear him. From MY perspective I was trying to HO the jug. It was the only real option I had. If you were involved and have a different perspective of the event thats fine....but I'm articulating the situation as I experienced it...nothing more, nothing less.
This was [and is] a friendly little AAR about a plane I have almost no real experience with.
Thrilla's handling of the bird opened my mind to the possibilities the plane offers. All I did was relay a bit of my experience with it since then. Since I'm not a particularly prudent pilot who is prone to both poor decision making and somewhat limited SA I was a bit suprised that I've been able to make a reasonable showing in a bird that I consider to be more of a "stalkers" plane. I've got no beef with you per se, but object to what I feel are unfair comments.
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Originally posted by humble
As for your "nothing more"....
Little falsehood makes bs everything else
Sounds like you called me a liar over some trivial BS.
I am sorry for that comment. You are right, it was rude.
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Karnak, I find the 110 to be more responsive in the roll and yaw, more stable while using rudder and it doesn't lock up as fast in a dive. I agree that the Mossie isn't as bad as many believe it is, but I still prefer the 110 in the fighter role.
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Originally posted by Vad
I am sorry for that comment. You are right, it was rude.
Your comments appreciated, as for my ending on that particular fight variations in connect time will great alot of variation in views under a hard turn. Just a little varience is going to show a big difference in turn...so from my FE I'm looking at the con...but from the con (no clue for sure if you were the jug but assuming) you've got a front quarter shot. Based on how I understand AH works your FE "see's me" and registers hits from your perspective...even though I get my nose around in my view you hit me on the planeform....soon as my FE picks up your strikes I go poof...so my "HO" never lands.
Now had you (or whoever the jug was) missed then I would register the HO (from my FE) even though your FE doesn't even show me as ever having a shot....
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Lol..greta write up..!
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Originally posted by FalconSix
Karnak, I find the 110 to be more responsive in the roll and yaw, more stable while using rudder and it doesn't lock up as fast in a dive. I agree that the Mossie isn't as bad as many believe it is, but I still prefer the 110 in the fighter role.
Mossie slightly out rolls the Bf110G-2 and the Mossie doesn't lock up, it tears it's control surfaces off. :p
I dunno. To me the Bf110G-2 is an easy kill in the Mossie. The only kill a Bf110G-2 has scored on me when I was in a Mossie was a proximity kill after I tore my elevators off while diving on it. Great, big lawn dart, but the Bf110G-2 never touched me.
The Bf110G-2 is better at altitude, no doubt of that and is better for blow up airfields. The Mossie is a better fighter down low though.
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Funny, I find the Mossie an easy kill in my 110G. Perhaps this is so because we're the only two people demented enough to fly these dump trucks as fighters. :D
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Only thing (other then popping the vaters a bit) that I still cant get a good feel for is the stall. Seems to be very very sudden with no indication of departure till it happens. Then invariably its some kind of a flat cloverleaf type of deal. I've recovered it a couple of times but since I normally fly at 8k or lower the stalls usually happen at about 200ft above ground. I'm trying to learn to just pump the flap button hard when I'm turning hard...but no clue if its departing above flap speed or not...but when it goes it goes:)
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I know how u feel humble. I've been playing with my stick settings and lost the feel for the impending stall. Took me a week or so to get used to the new settings so i'm no longer stalling like a 2 weeker.:)
I still shed control surfaces every now and then. When the cockpit starts shaking i leave the joystick alone and trim my plane sloowly upwards.
If you want me to look at any films for u or vice versa send me a pvt msg some time.
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The Mossie is a nice plane. Not great, but it can get the job done if flown properly. In my experience, it's pretty weak in the vertical much like a Hurricane or F4F. I use that against it when flying in a Spit or anything that handles pretty well nose up.
I imagine if someone tries to turn with it slightly nose low that the Mossie would eat him for lunch.
-- Todd/Leviathn
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Thats exactly what I did to thrilla, and exactly what the real good sticks have done to me. Just suck the E out of it and stomp on its head and you have no problem (unless you miss your shot). But if you get in a bit to deep the mossie will make you pay for it. Suprisingly decent plane vs an "average" pilot.
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Originally posted by thrila
I know how u feel humble. I've been playing with my stick settings and lost the feel for the impending stall. Took me a week or so to get used to the new settings so i'm no longer stalling like a 2 weeker.:)
I still shed control surfaces every now and then. When the cockpit starts shaking i leave the joystick alone and trim my plane sloowly upwards.
If you want me to look at any films for u or vice versa send me a pvt msg some time.
I film alot (not always), I'll got thru them, couple of fights I should have won I lost...usually to a plane I roped then missed the shot and got a 1 ping roman candle....another week or two and I'll have a better feel for my limits.
As for the stall, I have zero feel for it (much like the 38). It seems to depart all at once...