Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Custom Skins => Topic started by: TDeacon on August 27, 2005, 12:23:26 AM
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Here's the current state of my first skin (The Deacon's p51b). I'm now trying to figure out the hard part, which is rivets and weathering.
(http://home.comcast.net/~mark.hinds/misc_online_storage_dir/TD_skin_050826a.JPG)
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Hi! What are you runing psp or adobe?
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Photoshop 4.0 from 15 years ago; need to upgrade.
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lol! :) should have a pencil tool use that for rivets. Make it one pixel and should have a tab called brushes somewhere click on that. Click on Brush Tip Shape make spacing 500%:D I like 900% though.
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Well, here's the skin after redoing all the panel lines, adding rivets and doing some initial weathering. The rivets are pretty much invisible at this distance. Among other things, I suppose it needs more weathering, paint chipping, and some historical corrections to the paint job (at least the latter is easy...).
Since this is my first skin, I would appreciate constructive suggestions for improvement.
(http://home.comcast.net/~mark.hinds/misc_online_storage_dir/TD_skin_050911.JPG)
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Wow.... Looks good keep up the good work
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Very nice job, TDeacon. I think you nailed the brown-hued olive drab right on.
What seems to be missing still is the paint chipping (often seen along panel lines/junctions and between prop spinner and nose), paint wear along wing surface where pilot steps to enter cockpit, scratches/chips/wear near ammo tray doors, fuel filler caps, and access panels. This is a real tedious part of skinning, but really makes a difference if done well.
Many skinners add a hint of shadow along the leading edge of the moveable control surfaces.
Also grease/dirt oil stains on wing undersurfaces? Can't tell from your screenshot.
Looks to me like a first rate effort for a first skin, though. !
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Oh man I love that skin. Nice job.
Question, did you think about adding the white stripes on the wings and tail that they put on for recognitition?
Cheers
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Good point, Fencer. Here is my previous P-51B skin from the same FG and squadron, showing the white recognition stripes. I couldn't tell from the profile I went from that they went on the horizontal stabilizers, but I would guess that they should've and it was something I missed. Guppy or someone else with better P-51 resources should be able to tell us...
(http://www.ah-skins.com/skins/screenshot274.jpg)
btw, that pic reminds me of another trick skinners can use to make the skins seem more authentic - color a few panels slightly lighter or darker than the overall paint scheme - this represents a replaced panel, perhaps from a salvaged a/c due to battle damage (good opportunity to add paint chips here).
Another technique is to overspray some sections of panel lines with a slightly darker color to simulate the crew chief's attempts in the field to repaint over the chips and paint wear.
The effects can all be real subtle but they are noticeable, and can add to the skin's realism.
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Thanks for the comments so far guys. :-)
Oboe: I definately plan to add additional weathering, including oil leaks and paint chipping. I have a black-and-white photo showing a P-51D from below, and can get some additional oil leak ideas from that. I did use several intensities of "panel lines", with the darkest reserved for control surfaces. I will experiment with the shading idea you suggest.
Fencer51: The "historical corrections to the paint" job I mentioned involves either white recognition stripes (which I hate), or the invasion stripes shown in the old Squadron/Signal booklet from the 70s. I probably will try both, and use whichever looks less strange. I wish I could get away with no recognition stripes, but have no evidence that such would be historical. (BTW, I remember you from AW around 1990. I was "The Deacon" then, and initially was using an Amiga 1000.)
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Oboe,
Most images I have show the recognition stripes on the tailplanes as well. However, I would "overpaint" them if I went with the Squadron/Signal interp (meaning the D-Day stripes instead of the single stripes which it had previously). The side-view image from that book is here:
(http://home.comcast.net/~mark.hinds/misc_online_storage_dir/squadron_p51d.JPG)
BTW, Guppy posted a kind of blurred photo image of this AC with the pre-invasion simple white stripes; I'd have to search the "skins" board to find it.
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Very nice bird, TDeacon.
btw, I just noticed the the white FG/squad recognition ID letters on the fuselage have a red outline to them - its evident in both profiles posted.
Its a sharp looking bird, with or without the invasion stripes.
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In late March 1944 the while tail ETO recognition stripes on the OD/Gray birds went away. Apparently too many folks were shooting at the 51Bs thinking they were 109s.
This wasn't the case on natural metal birds however as the black ID bands remained.
The Deacon would have had the wing white bands but not the tail bands. The red band and the red outlined squadron ID letters were were something done by the 334th FS of the 4th FG. Not all of thier birds had that either though.
Deacon had the red outlined QP-J and red vertical tail band.
Kidd Hoffer's "Salem Representative" also had the red vertical tail stripe
Posted before, but my early profile effort at "The Deacon" from pre-D-Day stripes, May 1944
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/810_1112066377_thedeacon.jpg)
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Did a little research and found that the invasion stripes version lasted one day in combat. It was lost on June 6, 1944 along with it's pilot Major Sobanski.
I also have a blurry picture of the pre-invasion stripe scheme from May 1944. Probably the same source that Guppy has.
Are you guys sure that the green is dark enough on this skin? I am not an artist nor a paint expert but the color pictures I have from that same era sure don't look that light.
What are the rules on posting images from books here?
Oh and Oboe love that Mustang too! Has it been submitted for inclusion in the game?
Cheers
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Originally posted by Fencer51
Did a little research and found that the invasion stripes version lasted one day in combat. It was lost on June 6, 1944 along with it's pilot Major Sobanski.
I also have a blurry picture of the pre-invasion stripe scheme from May 1944. Probably the same source that Guppy has.
Are you guys sure that the green is dark enough on this skin? I am not an artist nor a paint expert but the color pictures I have from that same era sure don't look that light.
What are the rules on posting images from books here?
Oh and Oboe love that Mustang too! Has it been submitted for inclusion in the game?
Cheers
Thinking you are looking at the same photo of "The Deacon" in Escort to Berlin :)
I've posted scans of photos from books here. I don't tend to leave em up real long but that's where I find the info.
I figure if it helps the skinners cause, it's worth the time.
I've never seen any rules on posting them.
Tough call on the darkness of the OD. So often the camo looks splotchy where they've touched up the paint too so it has darker patches on the lighter faded stuff.
Fencer, suggest you get Frank Speer's book "The Debden Warbirds" It's a great 4th FG resource too. Has a bunch of color of Don Allen nose art in the back. Speer being a 4th pilot who was shot down and made a POW in a B model.
Some photos I hadn't seen and the diary of the 335th FS used extensively as one of the guys saved it
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Well here are some stripes; all I had time for tonight...
On colors; to some degree they are relative to the rest of the model. Look how light the hills are in the background.
(http://home.comcast.net/~mark.hinds/misc_online_storage_dir/TD_skin_050912.JPG)
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i like it.. i like the colour.. i like it all..
one thing i would try to change is the the other paint colours.. try and make them a slightly different density (i think thats what i mean)so the scheme dosn't look flat..
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I think the letters ought to be outlined in red like the profile a couple of posts above me shows. It would add a small splash of color. I like the green camo of the -B, but agree that you might want to play around with shades and weathering to make it a non-uniform green color.
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I agree that the scheme is currently too "flat" (in depth, not sheen), an issue which is more likely with a "plain" scheme like this one. Picking up on some of your suggestions, I am considering:
1) Paint chipping. This would include chipping on major panel fasteners around the nose, and chipping around hatches or elsewhere. I lack detailed WWII-era pictures showing the "elsewhere"; any suggestions? I would be willing to purchase a book or 2, if someone knows of one with good large-scale images from WWII (color a bonus). I am not sure how realistic the "highlight all panel lines" approach used in some of our existing skins is, even though it does give more depth.
2) Liquid spills; limited photo coverage of this, but have 1 good picture of bottom of plane in flight showing what appears to be oil leaks from numerous places.
3) Some additional variation in the green/grey "paint", either in the form of a few replaced panels, repair overpainting, or some sort of panel color variation from weathering. I would need better real photos for this though; see book request above.
4) Conventional 3-d effects, such as slight shading on forward edge of aelerons/elevators, and darker panel lines where frequently removed. My limited photo collection may be barely adequate as reference for this.
5) Less conventional 3-d effects; note the subtle highlights/shadows at the edges of some of the panels on the following image. Would seem to require "1-sided" gaussian blur in black on shadow side and in white on sun side of panels. Haven't thought of a good way to do this in Photoshop yet. I could do regular gaussian blur and erase one side, but that is mindlessly time intensive.). (http://home.comcast.net/~mark.hinds/misc_online_storage_dir/sample_painted_weathering.jpg)
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Some weathering improvements have now been made.
The underside shot has light weathering on the bottom of
the air intake, as the correct heavy weathering / oil leaks looks
too dark with the current p-51b shading bug. The dark area
which this bug causes is visble in the 2nd image, but it looks
worse with heavy weathering.
(http://home.comcast.net/~mark.hinds/misc_online_storage_dir/TD_050915_top.JPG)
(http://home.comcast.net/~mark.hinds/misc_online_storage_dir/TD_050915_bottom_light.JPG)
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This is what the belly looks like with the heavier weathering. I guess I prefer this one. Any comments?
(http://home.comcast.net/~mark.hinds/misc_online_storage_dir/TD_050916_bottom_heavy.JPG)
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Thought of this image when I saw the undersides of your bird. A decent view of the weathering and streaking on the undersides of a combat 51. Do you have navigation and ID lights? Looks like landing light on front of left wing is missing too.
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/169_1126891610_51belly.jpg)
Only other thing is it seems like the star and bar and the nose red are too washed out/faded to me. Note the red in the photos of DUane Beeson's "Boise Bee" and Don Gentile's Shangri La.
Fire engine red was the color used if memory serves. Also note the splotchy OD on Beeson's bird.
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/169_1126892133_color4th.jpg)
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As always, Guppy, you are a great help; thanks!! :-)
I lighten the captured images by about 20% in case anyone has bright-limited monitors (like mine at work).
On exact matches with old photos, given what happens to color negatives after 60 years, I consider such images to be useful guidance, but not exact matches (meaning I have some leeway; I wonder if HTC agrees with this theory when I submit the skin...). Also, people have different settings on their PCs, so no 2 people will see exactly the same colors, especially w.r.t light/dark.
I did the bottom weathering from that photo, but your source apparently has a larger image. Thanks for the reminder on the lights; I will add them. Am currently trying to remember the font I used for the codes so I can add the red outlining.
Where did you get those color images???? I can afford to buy a few books if needed.
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The images are out of Jeff Ethell & Garry Fry's book "Escort to Berlin-The 4th Fighter Group in World War II"
Not many color shots in there, but lots of B&W images of the 4th from beginning to end of the war.
If you wanted to invest a few pennies in a good book of color shots, get Jeff Ethell's "Air Command-Fighters & Bombers of WW2"
All color shots.
http://dogbert.abebooks.com/servlet/SearchResults?an=Jeffrey+L.+Ethell&y=7&tn=Air+Command&x=45
7 bucks on up. It's well worth it.
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Originally posted by Guppy35
The images are out of Jeff Ethell & Garry Fry's book "Escort to Berlin-The 4th Fighter Group in World War II"
Not many color shots in there, but lots of B&W images of the 4th from beginning to end of the war.
If you wanted to invest a few pennies in a good book of color shots, get Jeff Ethell's "Air Command-Fighters & Bombers of WW2"
All color shots.
http://dogbert.abebooks.com/servlet/SearchResults?an=Jeffrey+L.+Ethell&y=7&tn=Air+Command&x=45
7 bucks on up. It's well worth it.
Try these, all greatly reduced at motorbooks: All essential for AH2 skinners.... I bought them all over the Labor Day weekend and got another 25% off...
WWII Fighters by Ethell and Sand, was $20, now $7.98 (http://www.motorbooks.com/Store/ProductDetails_9658.ncm)
(http://www.motorbooks.com/Store/UserDirs/motorbooks.com/coverimages/134977.jpg)
Bodie's Arsenal of Democracy, 1937-1942. Was $40, now $9.99 (http://www.motorbooks.com/Store/ProductDetails_15865.ncm)
(http://www.motorbooks.com/Store/UserDirs/motorbooks.com/coverimages/130745.jpg)
Spitfire by Stewart Wilson. Was $20, now $7.95. (http://www.motorbooks.com/Store/ProductDetails_7863.ncm)
(http://www.motorbooks.com/Store/UserDirs/motorbooks.com/coverimages/129633.jpg)
My regards,
Widewing
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Added red outlines and lights, but have no drawing of location of landing light (assume it's that headlight-like thing?). :-(
(http://home.comcast.net/~mark.hinds/misc_online_storage_dir/TD_050916_side.JPG)
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Originally posted by TDeacon
Added lights, but have no drawing of location of landing light (assume it's that headlight-like thing?). :-(
It's on the left wing outside of the gun ports by a bit and also outside the bomb/drop tank hardpoint. You can see it on the image below.
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/169_1122012778_dday357thb.jpg)
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I don't suppose you have a plan fragment showing position relative to nearby panel lines...
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Originally posted by TDeacon
I don't suppose you have a plan fragment showing position relative to nearby panel lines...
Ye of little faith :)
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/810_1126912537_51btop.jpg)
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Thanks Guppy. Added landing light, a few minor adjustments, and submitted skin.