Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Jackal1 on August 27, 2005, 10:49:02 AM
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Watched it yet?
Watched it last night for the first time.
Hope they run this every couple of months or so.
Wished it was mandatory for every U.S. citizen to watch at least twice.
Gives the answer to a lot of the "why are we?" crowd.
Tough to watch. The anger is brought back from that day. I think that`s a damn good thing.
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Originally posted by Jackal1
Watched it yet?
Watched it last night for the first time.
Hope they run this every couple of months or so.
Wished it was mandatory for every U.S. citizen to watch at least twice.
Gives the answer to a lot of the "why are we?" crowd.
Tough to watch. The anger is brought back from that day. I think that`s a damn good thing.
Yup I saw it on Disc the other night. It was a motivating factor of my "Clinton's watch" thread. In addition I never realized what really set OBL off so much.
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i think i might have seen it too
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Lets get the european perspective........better yet, I want a dutch perspective.
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hhmm u mean fahrenheit 9/11
:huh
If that its to one sided.
but some truth i guess.
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Originally posted by Jackal1
Hope they run this every couple of months or so.
Wished it was mandatory for every U.S. citizen to watch at least twice.
Gives the answer to a lot of the "why are we?" crowd.
Tough to watch. The anger is brought back from that day. I think that`s a damn good thing.
Like the commies and fascists do to get people into a certain mindset?
Hasn't the history taught you anything of this kind of activity?
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lol finland is close enough.
True Fishu but what about the truth? Do we abandon the truth because it is in a powerpoint presentation and might be misconstrued (by those harmed by the truth) as propoganda?
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Originally posted by Yeager
True Fishu but what about the truth? Do we abandon the truth because it is in a powerpoint presentation and might be misconstrued (by those harmed by the truth) as propoganda?
There are other ways to handle the truth, than to force it in a certain manner into people's mind as a repeated reminder every couple months.
Especially if it's intent is to raise anger.
Angered people can easily loose their rationality, which makes them easy to manipulate - then we get cases like wars to counter an immediate imaginery threat and more laws which wouldn't pass otherwise.
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Originally posted by Fishu
than to force it in a certain manner into people's mind.
It's a documentary that aired on discovery channel.....not forced propaganda. People have the option to turn of the TV if it makes them mad.
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No, I mean we gotta strap people in a chair, turn on the hot lights and roll that beautifull bean footage.
............Now where is that new rolleyes at? Awwwww...............here it is...........:rolleyes:
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Originally posted by Gunslinger
It's a documentary that aired on discovery channel.....not forced propaganda. People have the option to turn of the TV if it makes them mad.
Well, it depends on how you look at it..
Propaganda is a rather interesting subject due to the many totally different ways of practicing it.
It can be practiced by anyone.
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Originally posted by Fishu
Well, it depends on how you look at it..
Propaganda is a rather interesting subject due to the many totally different ways of practicing it.
It can be practiced by anyone.
propaganda or not it was truthfull, informative, and thought provoking. Give it a big bad evil label all you want, people with half a brain who can think for themselves arent going to pay attention to you.
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Originally posted by Fishu
Well, it depends on how you look at it..
Propaganda is a rather interesting subject due to the many totally different ways of practicing it.
It can be practiced by anyone.
Hard to propagandize the images and film of airliners being flown into the World Trade Center by terrorists. It pretty well speaks for itself if you haven`t got your head where the sun don`t shine.
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The Flight That Fought Back (http://dsc.discovery.com/convergence/flight/flight.html)
Most Americans need the reminder as they are too wrapped up in their little me me worlds to care past the next episode of Fear Factor...
as for what the rest of the world thinks about it, who gives a rats arse - it happened to us, not them
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Originally posted by Eagler
Most Americans need the reminder as they are too wrapped up in their little me me worlds to care past the next episode of Fear Factor...
Three cheers for the delegate from Tampa,
Well put and hit the proverbial nail on the head pretty squarely.
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Originally posted by Gunslinger
propaganda or not it was truthfull, informative, and thought provoking. Give it a big bad evil label all you want, people with half a brain who can think for themselves arent going to pay attention to you.
With one search of this board and little bit of time you can read propaganda from "open minded" people. They throw the term around like they are immune or their form of propaganda is actually the "truth"
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Originally posted by Jackal1
Watched it yet?
Watched it last night for the first time.
Hope they run this every couple of months or so.
Wished it was mandatory for every U.S. citizen to watch at least twice.
Gives the answer to a lot of the "why are we?" crowd.
Tough to watch. The anger is brought back from that day. I think that`s a damn good thing.
I'll try and see it...
Sometimes it's easy to forget how horrible that day was, just because you don't see the effects of the war on terror etc. every day..
:(
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Originally posted by Gunslinger
propaganda or not it was truthfull, informative, and thought provoking. Give it a big bad evil label all you want, people with half a brain who can think for themselves arent going to pay attention to you.
People with whole brains want to know how they find the hijackers plastic passport within 24 hours of the catastrophe. But cant find the black boxes.
people with whole brains want to know how building 7 collapsed.
Wheer is Osama?
Where is WMD's?
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Originally posted by WhiteHawk
People with whole brains want to know how they find the hijackers plastic passport within 24 hours of the catastrophe. But cant find the black boxes.
people with whole brains want to know how building 7 collapsed.
Wheer is Osama?
Where is WMD's?
(scrathes head) Building 7 was blown up by the FDNY Osama is in crawford at the Bush ranch wich is why he cant talk to Cindy Sheehan. The WMDs were put back in the US arsenal after the invasion.
Make a poster ans spread the word :rolleyes:
PS you left out something. It was a cruise missle that hit the pentagon
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Originally posted by Jackal1
Hard to propagandize the images and film of airliners being flown into the World Trade Center by terrorists. It pretty well speaks for itself if you haven`t got your head where the sun don`t shine.
It's not the images, it's how you utilize the images.
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Originally posted by Fishu
It's not the images, it's how you utilize the images.
so how is an informative documentry by a commercial element "bad usage" of the images?
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Originally posted by Jackal1
Watched it yet?
Watched it last night for the first time.
Hope they run this every couple of months or so.
Wished it was mandatory for every U.S. citizen to watch at least twice.
Gives the answer to a lot of the "why are we?" crowd.
Tough to watch. The anger is brought back from that day. I think that`s a damn good thing.
Except....and I'll say it once again... Iraq had nothing to do with the airliners flown into the Twin towers.
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Originally posted by Gunslinger
(scrathes head) Building 7 was blown up by the FDNY Osama is in crawford at the Bush ranch wich is why he cant talk to Cindy Sheehan. The WMDs were put back in the US arsenal after the invasion.
Make a poster ans spread the word :rolleyes:
PS you left out something. It was a cruise missle that hit the pentagon
ROTFLOL!!!!!:rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :aok
Whitehawk, you've been PWN3D!!!1!
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Originally posted by SkyWolf
Except....and I'll say it once again... Iraq had nothing to do with the airliners flown into the Twin towers.
No, but it certainly established a "Big Brother" neighborhood watch in the middle east, right where Osama Bin Hidin DIDN'T want us. ;)
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Originally posted by Gunslinger
so how is an informative documentry by a commercial element "bad usage" of the images?
Never claimed that.
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Originally posted by SkyWolf
Except....and I'll say it once again... Iraq had nothing to do with the airliners flown into the Twin towers.
And I will say it once again.................BS!
Iraq, Afghanistan and all other terrorist harbors of safe refuge, training and financial support all played a part in it. To think otherwise would be plain naive.
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Originally posted by Jackal1
And I will say it once again.................BS!
Iraq, Afghanistan and all other terrorist harbors of safe refuge, training and financial support all played a part in it. To think otherwise would be plain naive.
Well.. there was an obvious connection between OSB, and the Taliban
There was no connection between Al-Qaeda and Iran and no connection between Iran and the Twin Towers. To think otherwise means you are a mindless right wing drone.
Unless you are refering to the fact that they are all Muslim? Maybe we should go to war with all Middle Eastern Countries.
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Iran? Iraq?
Switching horses faster than I can kiss a duck. :)
In a manner of speaking we are at war with the majority of the ME now.
You been out of touch for a while or what?
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Originally posted by Jackal1
And I will say it once again.................BS!
Iraq, Afghanistan and all other terrorist harbors of safe refuge, training and financial support all played a part in it. To think otherwise would be plain naive.
IIRC, the terrorist training camps in Iraq were in Kurdish controlled territory.
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Originally posted by Jackal1
Iran? Iraq?
Switching horses faster than I can kiss a duck. :)
What? You mentioned Iraq and Afghanistan. Iran? What are you babbling about?
In a manner of speaking we are at war with the majority of the ME now.
You been out of touch for a while or what?
No... I assure you that I'm quite in touch. You seem to be the one with the perception of reality issues. I merely pointed out the problems of painting everyone with the same brush.
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Originally posted by SkyWolf
What? You mentioned Iraq and Afghanistan. Iran? What are you babbling about?
Yes, I mentioned Iraq and Afghanistan among others, then you started rattling about Iran with this.............
There was no connection between Al-Qaeda and Iran and no connection between Iran and the Twin Towers.
You switched directions from Iraq to Iran. So..I guess the question would be ....What are YOU babbling about?
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Originally posted by Sandman
IIRC, the terrorist training camps in Iraq were in Kurdish controlled territory.
Marines Discover Terror Training Camp Near Baghdad
BAGHDAD, Iraq — U.S. forces came upon a recently abandoned terrorist training camp on the outskirts of Baghdad where recruits were apparently taught how to make bombs and what to do if they got captured, the Marines said Wednesday.
The extensive camp consisted of about 20 permanent buildings on 25 acres south of the city and was operated by the Iraqi government and the Palestine Liberation Front, said Marine spokesman Cpl. John Hoellwarth.
Among the documents found were filled-out questionnaires that included such questions as "What type of missions would you like to carry out?" according to Hoellwarth. He said many recruits wanted to carry out suicide missions.
The camp included an obstacle course and what appeared to be a prison, to teach terrorists what to do if captured and interrogated, Hoellwarth said.
Recruits were also apparently taught how to make bombs, he said. The Marines found chemicals, beakers and pipes.
Hoellwarth said uniforms and gas masks were also left behind, along with bread and other food, suggesting the place had been used fairly recently.
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U.S. finds terrorist camp for foreigners in Iraq
Reuters News Service
AS SAYLIYA CAMP, Qatar - The U.S. military said today it had captured or killed fighters from Sudan, Egypt and other countries in Iraq, and some of those captured had led its members to a terrorist training camp.
Brig. Gen. Vincent Brooks told a briefing at Central Command in Qatar that the camp, found at Salman Pak southeast of Baghdad, demonstrated "a linkage between this regime and terrorism."
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Originally posted by Eagler
The Flight That Fought Back (http://dsc.discovery.com/convergence/flight/flight.html)
Most Americans need the reminder as they are too wrapped up in their little me me worlds to care past the next episode of Fear Factor...
as for what the rest of the world thinks about it, who gives a rats arse - it happened to us, not them
Just saw the advertisment for that....it looks good.
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Originally posted by Jackal1
Marines Discover Terror Training Camp Near Baghdad
BAGHDAD, Iraq — U.S. forces came upon a recently abandoned terrorist training camp on the outskirts of Baghdad where recruits were apparently taught how to make bombs and what to do if they got captured, the Marines said Wednesday.
The extensive camp consisted of about 20 permanent buildings on 25 acres south of the city and was operated by the Iraqi government and the Palestine Liberation Front, said Marine spokesman Cpl. John Hoellwarth.
Among the documents found were filled-out questionnaires that included such questions as "What type of missions would you like to carry out?" according to Hoellwarth. He said many recruits wanted to carry out suicide missions.
The camp included an obstacle course and what appeared to be a prison, to teach terrorists what to do if captured and interrogated, Hoellwarth said.
Recruits were also apparently taught how to make bombs, he said. The Marines found chemicals, beakers and pipes.
Hoellwarth said uniforms and gas masks were also left behind, along with bread and other food, suggesting the place had been used fairly recently.
...and this has a connection to 911 how?
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...and this has a connection to 911 how?
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mean people.
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Originally posted by Jackal1
Yes, I mentioned Iraq and Afghanistan among others, then you started rattling about Iran with this.............
You switched directions from Iraq to Iran. So..I guess the question would be ....What are YOU babbling about?
Good Point. Typo or brain fart or something. My apologies.
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Originally posted by Sandman
IIRC, the terrorist training camps in Iraq were in Kurdish controlled territory.
Kurdish-controlled? Thats a media buzz statement.
A) Kurds didn't control anything, Saddam did. Remember Saddam gassing the kurds to let him know whos the boss?
B) Most of the U.S. terrorists are in "Gang controlled" areas of our poor sections of the major cities...now see how silly your statment sounds?
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Originally posted by Sandman
...and this has a connection to 911 how?
That was in response to your "Kurdish controlled" statement as quoted.
It is one of many terrorist training camps known to have been in Iraq.
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Originally posted by SkyWolf
Good Point. Typo or brain fart or something. My apologies.
Not a prob. No apologies neccessary.
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This is an editorial from Ron Khol of Machine Design -magazine, written one month after 9/11:
The mathematics of vengeance
Tower 1 of the World Trade Center was 1,368 feet high. After terrorists crashed an airliner into it, the heat and smoke were so unbearable that many people leapt from near the top. Their alternative was to be cooked alive. They had to make an unthinkably horrific choice.
That leads us to mathematics, which can make us even more angry over the attack. Going back to calculus for the equations for free-falling bodies, I came up with s = 1/2gt^2, where s = the distance a body has fallen after time, t. Because many jumpers were near the top, I let s = 1,368 feet, factored in an assumed terminal velocity of 120 mph with v = gt, and used the two equations to solve for t, coming up with a value of 10.5 seconds. Lawrence Kren of our staff did a more precise analysis and came up with 11.5 seconds.
Look at your watch and count off 11 seconds. That is how long jumpers had to think about their fate before hitting the pavement at 120 mph. Newspaper accounts said that a pink mist puffed up when jumpers hit. It was ghastly.
We'll get back to that later. But first I must mention that many of the articles I saw in print after the attack surprised me. One was the public statement by a Saudi prince declaring that our attack on Afghanistan is justified because the United States has to retaliate. We have to take revenge, he said. I liked him using those two words. Retaliate. Revenge.
Another surprise was to see, in our politically correct culture, numerous newspaper articles about how the motivation of terrorists has nothing to do with religion. The main thing bothering the terrorists, according to these articles, is their intense inferiority complex. They have a terminal case of envy.
The reason they hate the United States is our obvious and blatant superiority in engineering, science, medicine, and economic productivity. Their culture provides people, for the most part, with poverty, ignorance, and deprivation. Ours provides enlightenment and prosperity. This point is so obvious that the Prime Minister of Italy had the courage to say publicly that Western civilization is superior to Islamic culture.
An interesting fact is that leaders of the terrorist movement mostly had privileged lives and came from substantial families. Maybe it would be different if Muslim radicals had all been raised in the gutter and accepted being outside the borders of normal civilization. But the guys who hate us the most come from the upper and middle classes. Like many of us who do not like the New York Yankees for dominating baseball, Muslim terrorists hate the United States because we are winners. They don't like being losers but also don't want to do anything constructive to elevate themselves.
This is the reason there is no way to reach an accommodation with them. They will hate us until we have the same Stone Age economies and cultures they have. It is also the reason most policy makers realize that our war on terrorists will have to be ruthless in the extreme. Obviously, these people can't be rehabilitated. They will be a danger wherever they walk the earth.
There is also that matter of people having to jump from the towers. We owe it to them to forget about justice and think about vengeance. The Taliban have already said they have no regard for Afghan civilians. "Allah will have to look after them," said one Muslim cleric. That being the case, we may have to do with Taliban-occupied areas what Rome did to Carthage. It is a debt we especially owe to those who had 11 seconds to think about their fate before hitting the pavement.
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Originally posted by Ripsnort
Kurdish-controlled? Thats a media buzz statement.
A) Kurds didn't control anything, Saddam did. Remember Saddam gassing the kurds to let him know whos the boss?
B) Most of the U.S. terrorists are in "Gang controlled" areas of our poor sections of the major cities...now see how silly your statment sounds?
You're right. There are no Kurds in Iraq. :rolleyes:
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Originally posted by Sandman
You're right. There are no Kurds in Iraq. :rolleyes:
Who's country were the Kurds in, and who was their leader? I must have missed something....
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Originally posted by Ripsnort
Who's country were the Kurds in, and who was their leader? I must have missed something....
Evidently (http://www.time.com/time/europe/magazine/article/0,13005,901021209-395309,00.html).
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Originally posted by Sandman
Evidently (http://www.time.com/time/europe/magazine/article/0,13005,901021209-395309,00.html).
Why do you divert and not answer the question?
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There are no Kurds in Iraq. Never has been.
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Originally posted by Sandman
There are no Kurds in Iraq. Never has been.
So you become sarcastic when you lose your arguement? Okay, whatever floats your boat.
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If there was no Kurd controlled territory, obviously there were no Kurds either. Hussein enjoyed complete control of every acre of his country.
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Originally posted by TimRas
This is an editorial from Ron Khol of Machine Design -magazine, written one month after 9/11:
The mathematics of vengeance
Thanks for this post !
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TimRas post reminded me of Christopher Hitchens. He is one of those guys who I like to read even when I disagree with his POV.
Check this one out (http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/005/995phqjw.asp?pg=1)
Childishness is one thing--those of us who grew up on this wonderful Edwardian author were always happy to see the grown-ups and governesses discomfited. But puerility in adults is quite another thing, and considerably less charming. "You said there were WMDs in Iraq and that Saddam had friends in al Qaeda. . . . Blah, blah, pants on fire." I have had many opportunities to tire of this mantra. It takes ten seconds to intone the said mantra. It would take me, on my most eloquent C-SPAN day, at the very least five minutes to say that Abdul Rahman Yasin, who mixed the chemicals for the World Trade Center attack in 1993, subsequently sought and found refuge in Baghdad; that Dr. Mahdi Obeidi, Saddam's senior physicist, was able to lead American soldiers to nuclear centrifuge parts and a blueprint for a complete centrifuge (the crown jewel of nuclear physics) buried on the orders of Qusay Hussein; that Saddam's agents were in Damascus as late as February 2003, negotiating to purchase missiles off the shelf from North Korea; or that Rolf Ekeus, the great Swedish socialist who founded the inspection process in Iraq after 1991, has told me for the record that he was offered a $2 million bribe in a face-to-face meeting with Tariq Aziz. And these eye-catching examples would by no means exhaust my repertoire, or empty my quiver. Yes, it must be admitted that Bush and Blair made a hash of a good case, largely because they preferred to scare people rather than enlighten them or reason with them. Still, the only real strategy of deception has come from those who believe, or pretend, that Saddam Hussein was no problem.