Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Furball on August 28, 2005, 10:44:25 AM
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miles_M.52
In 1944 design work was considered 90% complete, and Miles was told to go ahead with the construction of three prototype M.52's. Later that year the Air Ministry signed an agreement with the United States to exchange high-speed research and data. The Bell Aircraft company was given all of the drawings and research on the M.52, but the US reneged on the agreement and no data was forthcoming in return. Unbeknownst to Miles, Bell had already started construction of a rocket powered supersonic design of their own, but were battling the problem of control. The Miles all-moving tail proved to be the solution to their problems.
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enh?
Was my understanding Yeager whipped this up with Beeler & Ridley, working up desigin mods to allow the manualy set stab trim system to be operated via a trim wheel in the cockpit... AFTER they ran into the controlability problem on a .96 mach flight.
Henh.
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See Rule #7
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Doesn't matter. Chuck was not the first to break the sound barrier. He just got the credit due to politics. An F86 Sabre did it before he did.
The Smithsonian has this pretty well documented now, but still no official government recognition is forth coming.
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Originally posted by Skuzzy
Doesn't matter. Chuck was not the first to break the sound barrier. He just got the credit due to politics. An F86 Sabre did it before he did.
The Smithsonian has this pretty well documented now, but still no official government recognition is forth coming.
wasn't that done in a dive?
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It was broken twice before Chuck did it in the X-1 by the same Sabre. I'll have to look up the flight log again. They were testing the Sabre's high speed handling abilities when it broke it the first time. It was completely accidental.
The pilot was warned not to do it again, but on the next flight he broke it again.
The thing was, the Sabre maintained controlled powered flight after breaking the sound barrier. I am pretty sure the pilot was diving, but I cannot recall the exact parameters of the flight right now.
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Yep. Old codger I know has a 'card' for membership in the F-86 transonic brotherhood.
It's been suggested that a Komet broke the sound barrier during WWII in a dive.. doubt that will ever be proven. Certainly F-86's were breaking the sound barrier in dives before Chuck did it in the X1. What caught my intrest in this thread is the claim for the compressability control failure being a British fix.
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It's from Wiki Hangtime. I would rather see something a bit more substantial than a quote from Wiki on this.
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The F86 did indeed break the "sound barrier" in a mild dive a few days prior to the Bell X-1's historic flight. I believe (IIRC) that the issue was one of documentation or a lack thereof. The pilot was warned never to do it again and like many of us here he went on to break rules #4, 5 and 6 the very next day.
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Originally posted by storch
The F86 did indeed break the "sound barrier" in a mild dive a few days prior to the Bell X-1's historic flight. I believe (IIRC) that the issue was one of documentation or a lack thereof. The pilot was warned never to do it again and like many of us here he went on to break rules #4, 5 and 6 the very next day.
:rofl :lol
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Originally posted by Skuzzy
It's from Wiki Hangtime. I would rather see something a bit more substantial than a quote from Wiki on this.
Me too. But beyond the verbal histories provided by the guys flying 'em in those days, no formal 'documentation' exists. Since Chucks flight had all the telemetry and ground observers in postion to document HIS flight, he made the 'history' books.
Beyond that, 'did not' vs 'did too' debate is only mildly interesting. What's certain is the F-86 could and DID go transonic in a dive. As to who did first and when.. well, here we are. We've got an F-86 Test Pilot's claim, but nothin on paper with a Air Force letter head stating the guy went transonic before Chuck got the X1 thru the barrier.
Personally, I think the guy did it.. mebbe someday the paperwork will come thru. ;)
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That was good storch.
According to the documents at the Smithsonian, The documentation was confiscated (this is supposedly why the pilot went ahead and broke it again). The government did not want any news of the sound barrier being broken by the Sabre leaking out, after spending a bunch of tax payers money on developing the X-1.
Had news leaked out about the Sabre breaking the barrier, the politicians of the day would have been screwed.
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Originally posted by storch
The F86 did indeed break the "sound barrier" in a mild dive a few days prior to the Bell X-1's historic flight. I believe (IIRC) that the issue was one of documentation or a lack thereof. The pilot was warned never to do it again and like many of us here he went on to break rules #4, 5 and 6 the very next day.
LOL!!! Damn you, I was eating! Dern near choked! :rofl :rofl :rofl
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Originally posted by SaburoS
LOL!!! Damn you, I was eating! Dern near choked! :rofl :rofl :rofl
Same here :rolleyes:
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Thousands of air vehicles broke the sound barrier long before Yeager, the X-1 or the F-86. None of them were manned of course, but I do find it funny that some people doubted it could be done after WWII and the Mach 3+ V2 rocket.
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Originally posted by storch
The F86 did indeed break the "sound barrier" in a mild dive a few days prior to the Bell X-1's historic flight. I believe (IIRC) that the issue was one of documentation or a lack thereof. The pilot was warned never to do it again and like many of us here he went on to break rules #4, 5 and 6 the very next day.
ROFL
One for the books.
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You got to be able to prove a thing before you claim credit for doing it.
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Wasn't the F-86 pilot Welch? The same guy who shot down 4 or more japanese planes on Dec. 7th 1941?
(too lazy to google)
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Do you mean Ben Afleck?
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hehe
In the spring of 1944, Welch was approached by North American Aviation to become a test pilot for the P-51 Mustang. Resigning his commission from the army, Welch accepted. He went on to fly the prototypes of the FJ Fury, and when the F-86 Sabre was proposed, Welch was chosen as the chief test pilot. The project gained momentum and was moved to Edwards AFB, California, the same base at which the Bell X-1 was being developed. North American was instructed that they were not, under any circumstances, to break the sound barrier before the X-1 achieved this milestone. However, Welch disregarded this order, and during a test flight on October 1, 1947 he entered a steep dive from 35,000 ft. During the dive, Welch observed symptoms compatible with Mach jump, and a sonic boom was heard at the base. However, due to problems with the landing gear, further full-speed flights were delayed. On October 14, the same day that Yeager was to attempt supersonic flight, Welch performed a second supersonic dive. This time he started from 37,000 ft, and executed a full-power 4g pullout, greatly increasing the power of his sonic boom. Yeager broke the sound barrier approximately 30 minutes later.
http://www.answers.com/topic/george-welch
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The guy was one heluva a pilot!
to his memory!
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Need scientific data. Need the telemetry....need the proof. A boom sound in the sky indicates nothing exept a boom sound in the sky.
Yeager was the first to be able to prove it. Thats a fact, jack!
Welch was a cool dude though :cool:
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Well, since the documentation of Welch's flights was confiscated by the government I guess we should continue to ignore the accomplishment.
I am glad the Smithsonian opted to put it out in the open though. Welch deserves some recognition for what he did. And the government deserves to be exposed for what it did.
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conspiracy?
sources?
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Source, the Smithsonian. I do not know if you could classify it a conspiracy. More of a cover-up.
According to the documentation at the Smithsonian, the government feared the public repercussions of the Sabre breaking the sound barrier, as the public was told the money needed for the X-1 project was all about the race to break the sound barrier.
Go to the Smithsonian, read all about it. A subtext of the docs was printed in Air & Space as well. How can you guys be plane fanatics and not get Air & Space?