Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Nilsen on August 29, 2005, 02:09:19 PM
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yeah i know... rofl, lol and wtf etc..
Im 30 and in the market for my first new car. Got my first car a few months ago but its junk so ill kill it.
Im considering a Toyota Avensis, VW Passat or maybe ill go all the way to an Audi A4.
It has to be a diesel and with automatic.. im to lazy to shift. It also has to be safe and be a stationwagon.
Of the 3 id like to know your views. Dont care about music systems and stuff like that.
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Nilsen buy American! A nice BIG SUV is what you need!!!
:aok
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hehehe with our gas prices and the salty air we have here? :D
next!
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Well the Audi A4's are nice.. But like there siblings Jetta & and dare say Pissars. Only a guy who bats from the wrong side would drive one of those.. frankly there ugly.
I'd look at a Mazda 6 5-Door or Wagon if they offer it...
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Bats from the wrong side?
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Originally posted by Nilsen
Bats from the wrong side?
Another way of saying someone is gay.
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Oh..
Nothing gay about those cars over here. Only things considered "gay" overe here are gays and disco.
Cultural difference i suppose
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Diesels pollute too much, get a gasoline engine.
Subaru Legacy GT will do everything an Audi A4 will do, for less money, and more reliable.
And friends don't let friends by VW's.
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get a new Vauxhall Astra Sport Hatch :)
http://www.channel4.com/4car/road-tests/driving-impressions-2005/V/vauxhall/astra/sport-hatch.html
(http://www.channel4.com/4car/media/V/vauxhall/astra/03-large/05-3dr-r3q-s.jpg)
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Subaru is a big no. Far too low on the customer satisfaction list here.
Does it even come in stationwagon version?
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No to Vauxhall too.. isnt that part of Opel btw?
I will never buy Opel ;)
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(http://www.dragons.co.za/images/giant/Products/puddin_b.jpg)
:D
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Does it come as a stationwagon soda?
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I think the training wheels are included for free.... :)
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got one for you:
(http://www.hollywood-diecast.com/truckster.jpg)
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All the audi drivers around here seem to consistently drive 10-15 mph faster than everyone else. I think I've maybe passed 5 audis in the last 2 months, (I usually drive about 74) while the other 1,000 I saw zipped past at 80+. Maybe they are exempt from speeding fines or all of their speedos are set incorrectly, because almost without exception every audi I see is driving very fast, and no other car type drives that fast that consistently, except maybe the BMW M3s who are always trying to get around the audis just to prove who's king. Even the supercar mercedes and jaguars drive at "normal" speeds compared to 99% of the audis I see.
It's so consistent, I've been tempted to make a little video documentary on the subject and send it in to the bbc :) There's even one guy who seems to always leave home about a minute after I do, and about once a week I see him screaming past me doing around 90 mid-way up the A14 between Cambridge and the 5-way near Lakenheath/Mildenhall. I figure I could videotape him passing everyone like that about 20 times, then follow him to work and show him a copy of the video as blackmail material :) Or is that illegal in the UK? I can't keep up with the laws around here.
So if you want to drive fast, get an audi and join the race.
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I will never buy Opel
I know u have the same taste as me.
U know if u buy a japanese car even the good they are.
Its nothing compared to an audi or volkswagen
wait for the new pasat station ill say
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LOL Eagl! Audi drivers has a real bad rep here too! There was even a report on the news about it a couple of years ago :D
BUG.. yup :)
I will wait for the new Passat. I think they have arrived or will some time this fall. I dont like how they look from behind but the motor press seems to really like it. I dont really care that much about how it looks either but it will be black or silver.
I know that Audis are expencive and prolly a waste on someone like me that dont really care that much about cars.
How does the three compare when it comes to safety?
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Originally posted by Mustaine
got one for you:
(http://www.hollywood-diecast.com/truckster.jpg)
Ah, the Family Truckster. You think you hate it now, wait till you drive it!
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Originally posted by Nilsen
and with automatic.. im to lazy to shift..
I was about to make some recommendations until I realized that we're dealing with your wife here, not you. :p
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Hehe, no its me :D
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Originally posted by Nilsen
Hehe, no its me :D
Do you do alot of city driving? Why not get the best of both worlds, high compression, high performance engine with a manual shifter (fun fun fun!) in the convenience of a station wagon? Unless you don't know HOW to shift! ;)
http://www.edmunds.com/reviews/mostwanted/2002/47592/article.html
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Here is another recommendation, not a station wagon, but all your family needs:
http://www.edmunds.com/reviews/mostwanted/2005/103344/article.html?tid=edmunds.e.wanted05.content..1.*
(Do you see a pattern here? :p...did I mention "Highest resale value of any vehicle under $100,000" ?)
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Here (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/MiG-15-Military-Jet-Aircraft-Warbird-Airplane-Military_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ26428QQitemZ4572186624QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW)
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Well ripsnort, you have to remember that prices for cars here are about three times or more of what you pay so no 5 series BMW is within what i wanna spend on a car. The cheapest 3 series is but no thanks.
Automatics have never been popular in europe or here anyways and up until a few years ago they were very scarse. For some reason people around here likes manual shiftin. In short... i know how to shift and have driven them most of the time ive had my license. I just prefer automatics cause its more layed back and i dont drive for the pleasure of driving, just something i have to do.
-edit- The cheapest 5 series touring costs 82631 $ here and the cheapest diesel is 89000 $ and then you have to start adding for automatic etc...
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Originally posted by Nilsen
Well ripsnort, you have to remember that prices for cars here are about three times or more of what you pay so no 5 series BMW is within what i wanna spend on a car. The cheapest 3 series is but no thanks.
Automatics have never been popular in europe or here anyways and up until a few years ago they were very scarse. For some reason people around here likes manual shiftin. In short... i know how to shift and have driven them most of the time ive had my license. I just prefer automatics cause its more layed back and i dont drive for the pleasure of driving, just something i have to do.
-edit- The cheapest 5 series touring costs 82631 $ here and the cheapest diesel is 89000 $ and then you have to start adding for automatic etc...
The Audi A4 is competitively priced here in the US to that of the 3 series.
Unbelieveable cost for that 5'er. You're closer to the source, why so much? Socialism? ;)
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Originally posted by Ripsnort
The Audi A4 is competitively priced here in the US to that of the 3 series.
Unbelieveable cost for that 5'er. You're closer to the source, why so much? Socialism? ;)
Yup, its crazy.
Almost all is from the HP tax and VAT.
I knew someone would start with the "socialism" but taxes has to be high here.. I dont mind explaining why its needed but not in this thread. ;)
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A new car is a terrible thing to spend money on. Consider a car 1-3 years old. Your bang for the buck is exponentially better.
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Peugeot 407 SW? Looks nice.
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Yes I know its rather silly to get a brand new one, but i plan on owning it for a really long time. If i come across a car that is about that age and I like it i may get it. Primarily ill be looking at a new tho.
They have also cut the prices on the Passat that is now going out of production so i may go for one of those too.
Im in no real hurry, but I would like to get one by the end of september. Im not gonna borrow money to get it so thats another reason for not going for a more expencive car.
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Originally posted by takeda
Peugeot 407 SW? Looks nice.
Yup it does, but id like to buy from a local dealer. The one we have that sells peugeot also sells Mercedes and tend to favor the customers of the latter brand.
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Your 30 years old and you JUST got your first car a few months ago?
My my arent we the late bloomer LMAO.
Wait lemme guess. untill then anywhere you needed to go you got to by boat?
For some reason. as I chuckle saying that.( you know Im just busting your chops) It would not at all surprise me if you answered in the affirmative
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Originally posted by DREDIOCK
Your 30 years old and you JUST got your first car a few months ago?
My my arent we the late bloomer LMAO.
Wait lemme guess. untill then anywhere you needed to go you got to by boat?
For some reason. as I chuckle saying that.( you know Im just busting your chops) It would not at all surprise me if you answered in the affirmative
Hehe..
Im a late bloomer when it comes to cars yes :D
Ive either borrowed my paretnts cars or my gf's.
I decided fairly early on that i wanted to get myself a really nice house by the ocean and that was my priority. So while my friends has had a ton of cars (like normal people :D) I now have the best house and property and NO debt. They have "normal" houses/aparatments and plenty of debt (like normal people :)
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To be honest though. My wife, and every other owner I've met have all been nothig less then totally pleased with their Hyundai.
Got the Santa Fe for my wife a few years ago and the only prob we've had if you wanna call it that is a few weeks ago her "Check engine" light came on. Turned out it was some sort of sensor that was whacked out. But it was still under warrantee and a few hours later she had it back free of charge
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Hyundai is a really small brand here, and id like to go with a more familiar one that has better second had value... even if im buying to keep it.
Im sure they are great tho. No doubts about that.
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Nils, why not go for the Benz?
(http://www3.ndr.de/container/ndr_style_images_default/0,2299,OID983158,00.jpg)
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(http://www.clausenbilar.com/DODGE%20Magnum%20RT%202.jpg)
I don't know if they make a hemi in a deisel though.
Go big or stay home!
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I thought all you folk on the east side of the pond were supposed to like these: (they come in diesel)
(http://www.richardsnotes.org/pictures/nice_smartcar.jpg)
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Originally posted by Holden McGroin
I thought all you folk on the east side of the pond were supposed to like these: (they come in diesel)
(http://www.richardsnotes.org/pictures/nice_smartcar.jpg)
Good god. That is one of the most rediculous looking things Ive ever seen LMAO
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What car is that? I have started on the path of acclimating myself into buying an electric car by 2008. That car style is what I would expect an EV to look like, primarily for city driving. Long distance highway miles are reserved for my GMC sierra extended cab truck, regardless of gas prices.
Of course, I won't own some 25mph neighborhood EV. Minimum speed requirement are 70+ mph (113+ kph) with 0-60 mph (0-100 kph) of 9 sec. Mixed city driving requires those specs to be practical.
Regards,
Malta
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It's a Smart Car. A division of Daimler.
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That smart at least got rear wheel drive :)
btw just googled and there is a pic
(http://www.cwwcardesign.com/news/vwpv5.jpg)
(http://www.autointell-news.com/News-2005/August-2005/A-2005-1/passat.jpg)
(http://www.vwvortex.com/artman/uploads/018__scaled_600_010.jpg)
(http://www.vwvortex.com/artman/uploads/022__scaled_600_010.jpg)
(http://www.vwvortex.com/artman/uploads/023__scaled_600_009.jpg)
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(http://www.vwvortex.com/artman/uploads/045__scaled_600_001.jpg)
(http://www.vwvortex.com/artman/uploads/005__scaled_600_036.jpg)
(http://www.vwvortex.com/artman/uploads/029__scaled_600_005.jpg)
(http://www.vwvortex.com/artman/uploads/032__scaled_600_005.jpg)
(http://www.vwvortex.com/artman/uploads/014__scaled_600_014.jpg)
(http://www.vwvortex.com/artman/uploads/044__scaled_600_005.jpg)
(http://www.vwvortex.com/artman/uploads/059__scaled_600_004.jpg)
just a few now stay with the brand :)
its behind looks good btw
great dash also
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Originally posted by rpm
Nils, why not go for the Benz?
(http://www3.ndr.de/container/ndr_style_images_default/0,2299,OID983158,00.jpg)
Cause the cheapest E-class SW (E220T CDI +) costs 94365 USD and the cheapest C-class (C200T CDI +) is 65763 USD.
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I'd skip the Audi and pick either Passat, Avensis or maybe VW Touran.
Then again I wouldn't buy any of those but...
(http://www.407.fi/extras/407sw-taustakuva3-1280x960.jpg)
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totaly gehy. prolly comes with an anal massage seat and power sac scratcher.
what you gonna do with a 'car' anyway? drive around town wearin shades and lookin famous?
Cripes, riding a skateboard wearin yer pirate hat will getcha noticed. In a VW yer just anuther eurotard.
cripes, yer in norway.. pretty much europes' canada.. "Follow the only one road".
Get one of these, polar-boy. but keep the shades and the pirate hat.
(http://www.pistenraupe.de/tucker_01j.jpg)
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Originally posted by Holden McGroin
I thought all you folk on the east side of the pond were supposed to like these: (they come in diesel)
(http://www.richardsnotes.org/pictures/nice_smartcar.jpg)
I saw one of those at the circus once. 15 clowns climbed out of it when it stopped !
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To get back on topic....
I'd go with the VW Passat. While a Toyota diesel may be good, I never heard of them making a diesel engine until now. Audi's are nice cars but the extra expense for an Audi is not spent on durable parts, such as the engine or transmission. Audi's cost more for prestige, creature comforts (which are very expensive when they break after five years) and styling.
Out of curiosity, is a station wagon the European equivalent of a pickem' up truck? Also, I would not recommend an automatic transmission on a diesel unless you have driven the car for at least a week. I owned a MB 240D with an automatic and felt a manual transmission would have helped the car's performance. Owning the automatic transmission 240D discouraged me from considering any more diesel cars. I hear modern diesel drive trains are much better.
Regards,
Malta
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Originally posted by stantond
To get back on topic....
I'd go with the VW Passat. While a Toyota diesel may be good, I never heard of them making a diesel engine until now. Audi's are nice cars but the extra expense for an Audi is not spent on durable parts, such as the engine or transmission. Audi's cost more for prestige, creature comforts (which are very expensive when they break after five years) and styling.
Out of curiosity, is a station wagon the European equivalent of a pickem' up truck? Also, I would not recommend an automatic transmission on a diesel unless you have driven the car for at least a week. I owned a MB 240D with an automatic and felt a manual transmission would have helped the car's performance. Owning the automatic transmission 240D discouraged me from considering any more diesel cars. I hear modern diesel drive trains are much better.
Regards,
Malta
I am leaning towards the Passat. I just found out that none of the Toyota Avensis models with diesel comes with an automatic so im left with Passat and Audi. I must say that i really liked that Peugeot 407 that Staga posted.
Not sure i follow you.. "european equivalent to pickup?" Do you mean in terms of popularity? Cant speak for the rest of europe, but in Norway its by far the most popular type of car.
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Nilsen,
Have you thought of a the new Skoda Octavia? A VW without the 5000 dollar badge.
My wife picked up a Fabia RS - not a bad car.
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Stantond,
Toyota is making diesels since the jurassic era.
My first car was a '91 Starlet (yeah I know it sounds utterly gay) 1500 cc diesel. Noisy but super reliable and swift in cities.
The new diesel engines for the Avensis are impressive: 177 BHP with an excellent mileage.
Nilsen, this would be a perfect match for your hat: (http://www.richardcort.co.uk/images/uploads/26.jpg)
:rolleyes::lol
Edit: AUTOMATIC??? C'mon, this is no boat....
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Originally posted by Monk
Nilsen,
Have you thought of a the new Skoda Octavia? A VW without the 5000 dollar badge.
My wife picked up a Fabia RS - not a bad car.
Haven't driven new Octavia but previous model was cramped for its price (IMHO) and I felt like sitting in the floor after my 307.
Nilsen have you thought about 307 STW or VW Touran ?
Personally I like sitting bit higher and with straight back; better "situational awareness" and after driving for my living for years my back also likes the possibility to have backrest almost vertical.
You could use your viking cap while driving in a 307; plenty of headroom ;D
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The 307 is too small. If i go for a Peugeot it will be the 407SW. Had a look at it today and the pricetag is not that bad.
Touran?...hmm maybe.
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307SW and VW Touran are just as roomy as Passat is; what you lose in lenght you get back in height and in possibility to use different "layouts" in cabin.
Some taxies in here are Tourans with DSG transmissions and what I've talked with the drivers they're happy for their tools and I consider them "pros" and worth of listening.
Maybe You could do the same in there; if you see an interesting car as taxi then jump in and ask what the driver thinks about his "tool".
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I've seen two Volvo's but the rest are Mercedes so I can't do that, but a good tip anyway.
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Taxies in here were also Mercedes and Volvos earlier but after traffic contractors got pissed when their expensive Mercedes limos were spending more time under repairs than earning money they bought BMWs, Toyotas and other cheaper brands.
Don't know the practice in there but in here larger dealers have few cars for testing and they give them for weekends for possible buyers.
What ever you do don't hurry; talk with people who owns those cars, read tests from technical magazines and web and just keep Your head cool.
btw friend bought Huyndai Tucson; he's happy with the car and having 5 year warranty without KM limits is also nice.
Heh friend is a taxi driver and having a fully loaded M-B E320CDi as his "tool"... I think he's quite happy... :D
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Originally posted by deSelys
Stantond,
Toyota is making diesels since the jurassic era.
My first car was a '91 Starlet (yeah I know it sounds utterly gay) 1500 cc diesel. Noisy but super reliable and swift in cities.
The new diesel engines for the Avensis are impressive: 177 BHP with an excellent mileage.
Nilsen, this would be a perfect match for your hat: (http://www.richardcort.co.uk/images/uploads/26.jpg)
:rolleyes::lol
Edit: AUTOMATIC??? C'mon, this is no boat....
AHHHHHHHHH! ARRRRRRRRGH!! MY EYES! I'M BLIND!!!!
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I can't believe you are still considering a filthy diesel. Evil polluter.
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Some friends of ours came by last night with their BMW X3.
The missus really liked it and im now told that we have an new car to consider. We are going to the dealer in about an hour to check prices and test drive.
That was unexpected..
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how are the drunk driving laws in ice bear country? maybe you should just forget the whole thing... you managed without a car for 30 years anyway.
lazs
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Nielsen make sure your lic plates say:
X35 lARO
It'll look kewl in rear view mirrors!
:aok
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Not paying to have pimp plates Mac :D
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Make sure you get something that accelerates fast! :)
(http://pic4.picturetrail.com/VOL767/2726312/7109603/110519781.jpg)
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Originally posted by lazs2
how are the drunk driving laws in ice bear country? maybe you should just forget the whole thing... you managed without a car for 30 years anyway.
lazs
Norway: 3 weeks in jail at hard labor, 1 yr loss of license, 2nd offense within 5 yrs - license revoked for life.
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Originally posted by FUNKED1
I can't believe you are still considering a filthy diesel. Evil polluter.
Please elaborate.
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"Norway: 3 weeks in jail at hard labor, 1 yr loss of license, 2nd offense within 5 yrs - license revoked for life."
hmm... well, in that case I would buy some cheapo beater that didn't cost much if I were him.... they don't seem to think drunk driving is the cute, harmless lark that drunk boating is in ice bear country.
all those fancy cars are just pipe dreams of the delusional living in denial... he will never get to drive one past a few years anyway.
lazs
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Originally posted by Ripsnort
Norway: 3 weeks in jail at hard labor, 1 yr loss of license, 2nd offense within 5 yrs - license revoked for life.
Didn't know that!
Haven't broken any traffic laws yet, but i got close to a parking ticket once.
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Originally posted by mora
Please elaborate.
Diesel emissions are still alot dirtier than gasonline. Also, it takes 25% more crude oil to make a gallon of diesel than it does gasoline (even though the production of gasoline leaves diesel as a by-product) Google is your friend.
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I guess it depends where in Google you look.
http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_future.html
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Originally posted by Ripsnort
Diesel emissions are still alot dirtier than gasonline.
No they aren't. Key words: "Catalytic Converter", "CRT-filter", "efficiency".
Originally posted by Ripsnort Also, it takes 25% more crude oil to make a gallon of diesel than it does gasoline (even though the production of gasoline leaves diesel as a by-product)[/B]
Diesel is way more efficient than gasoline engine, and it's fuel consumption is about 75% of that of a gasoline. If you can provide a link supporting your claim I'd be happy to view it.
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Originally posted by Monk
I guess it depends where in Google you look.
http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_future.html
So is that why the EU is drafting a proposal to clean up diesel fuels in Europe by 2009 as well? ;)
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Originally posted by mora
No they aren't. Key words: "Catalytic Converter", "CRT-filter", "efficiency".
Diesel is way more efficient than gasoline engine, and it's fuel consumption is about 75% of that of a gasoline.
Diesel emissions are regulated at the tail pipe. If you want more information on how they're measured look here:
http://www.nett.ca/faq_diesel.html
Bottom line: Diesels are dirtier than gasoline, here and Europe. Both are drafting tougher standards on new diesel engines as we speak.
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At least Norway and other Nordic coutries are ahead of the US when it comes to cleaner diesel fuel.
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I've been doing emission test cycles for both modern diesel and gasoline cars. The emission levels of both of them are very low ,and barely measurable with a ten year old equipment. There might be slight advantages for gasoline engines when it comes to certain pollution components, but the most inportant factor IMO is the better efficiency of the diesel which therefore has lower CO2 emissions.
When it comes other pollution components than CO2, I think both engine types have reached a level where the enviromental effect is a small issue. Of course development is not a bad thing, but the most important thing now is to reduce fuel consumption, and that of corse reduces all emissions.
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Originally posted by Ripsnort
So is that why the EU is drafting a proposal to clean up diesel fuels in Europe by 2009 as well? ;)
Of course they will continue to clean it up. Sorry Rip, I'm converted. A heap full of low end torque and 60 mpg (thats when it's ragged on the autobahn) a bit more when I drive like a girly man.
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Originally posted by mora
I've been doing emission test cycles for both modern diesel and gasoline cars. The emission levels of both of them are very low ,and barely measurable with a ten year old equipment. There might be slight advantages for gasoline engines when it comes to certain pollution components, but the most inportant factor IMO is the better efficiency of the diesel which therefore has lower CO2 emissions.
When it comes other pollution components than CO2, I think both engine types have reached a level where the enviromental effect is a small issue. Of course development is not a bad thing, but the most important thing now is to reduce fuel consumption, and that of corse reduces all emissions.
I don't doubt that...Europes lack of sulphur (better burn efficiency, but higher cost of producing it, which in turn burns more energy doing so) allows less CO2 to emit. Modern diesel engines sold in Europe are clean and quiet. Unfortunately, the technology needed to make them like that gets clogged up with the high-sulfur diesel fuel sold in the U.S.
Our fuel price for diesel might be as high as yours if we processed it more efficiently, but where is the trade off? I would imagine the energy to do so might make up for the energy saved? (shrugs)
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Originally posted by Monk
Of course they will continue to clean it up. Sorry Rip, I'm converted. A heap full of low end torque and 60 mpg (thats when it's ragged on the autobahn) a bit more when I drive like a girly man.
I envy you guys. :) We don't have the options avail to us that you have in Euro regarding diesels.
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I did like the X3 we tested. It was not a diesel tho. Abit over my budget without borrowing, but ill discuss this further with the missus and see were we land. I have dismissed the Audi and put the X3 in its place, so now its the Passat, X3 and the Peugeot 407SW as a maybe. We will check out the latter some time next week or maybe friday.
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Originally posted by Monk
Nilsen,
Have you thought of a the new Skoda Octavia? A VW without the 5000 dollar badge.
My wife picked up a Fabia RS - not a bad car.
Sorry Monk.. didnt see your post until now.
Yup, the Octavia sells pretty well here, but still the second hand value is very low for no good reason really. We have discussed it but decided not to go for one. Thx for your suggestion tho.
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Actually Rip, is is not so much about the processing as it is the crude itself. There are different grades of crude. Some contain high sulfur content, while others contain low sulfur content.
Most of Europe's crude is low sulfur, while the stuff we have here contains a high percentage of sulfur.
Sure, the sulfur can be processed out, but it costs a lot more to do so.
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I don't know about the rest of the states, but Texas has mandated low sulfur, highway use diesel since the early 90's. Sulfer is added to diesel for lubricicity, like lead was added to gasoline to prevent knocking. Any high sulfur diesel must contain a red dye and can only be used in off road equiptment. I thought it was a nationwide thing.
Diesel is a more environment friendly fuel when burned properly. Of course, if you turn up the pump and swap injectors you will get lots of cool black smoke, horsepower and rotten milage.
One last tidbit, diesel does not contain any MTBE. Google that and get back to me.
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Originally posted by Nilsen
I am leaning towards the Passat. I just found out that none of the Toyota Avensis models with diesel comes with an automatic so im left with Passat and Audi. I must say that i really liked that Peugeot 407 that Staga posted.
Not sure i follow you.. "european equivalent to pickup?" Do you mean in terms of popularity? Cant speak for the rest of europe, but in Norway its by far the most popular type of car.
I was referring to a vehicle which has extra capability which is rarely used, is somewhat extravagent, and very popular. In rural areas, pickup trucks are very practical. In the city they aren't, but they are very popular.
As an aside, I started looking into VW diesel engines lately. The Turbo Direct Injection (TDI) engines like one on a Passat are available here. I have considered buying one, not because it is a real value or practical but because I am a techo tourist. The turbo diesel TDI technology is very interesting. Also, here in the states there is the option of burning biodeisel which is about $4.00/gal. I think that would void a new car warranty though. The station wagon concept might be a suitably extravagent alternative to a pickup truck, but then I already have a 5.7L GMC truck which I really like. I understand why people like SUV's. They are roomy, comfortable, have great visibility, and are safe from collisions against things other than a train, oak tree, another SUV, or a semi-tractor trailer.
If I felt I could effectively haggle a 15% discount from the local VW dealer on a new TDI diesel, I would buy one. I may try anyway, but past experience has shown these guys don't give much. Here an American car manufacturer, such as Ford will give you 20% off sticker without much effort, depending on the model. Of course, TDI diesels are not like a regular Jetta, Passat, etc and that makes a difference as well.
I still recommend the Passat stationwagon. However, if you plan to give the car to your children the BMW may be a better choice. They don't sell Peugeot's here in the states anymore, so I won't comment on them.
Regards,
Malta
p.s. A big benefit of Arabian 'sweet' crude is the low sulphur content. Mexico has a lot of oil but the suphur content is high.
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Its 17 years until my daughter can drive so she wont get it.... i hope :D
Stationwagons are extremly popular here because of the norwegian lifestyle. We need the space because most weekends Norwegians load up their cars with kids and junk and go to their cabins or summerhouses. Sedans aren not very practical for that use. Pickup trucks could have been practical for those in some kind of construction business but because of the climate here they usually prefer somtehing with else.
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(http://www.acm.rpi.edu/~diesel/my_pics/boston/H2.jpg)
.50 cal mount optional, not available in some areas.
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You will never see me in a civilian hummer :D
One of the uglyest cars ever made!
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yah.
Ugly.
But totally decadent.
it just ooozes with the aura of "I'm RITCH, Beyatch!"
besides, wouldn't it be nice to be able to drive over.. err.. 'see' over station wagons.