Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Seagoon on August 30, 2005, 04:06:51 PM
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Thousands of them, every day in the MA...
Ok, this could have gone in the AH general area, but I wanted to discuss it with you lads, since you're the AH equivalent of family.
This is the one feature of the game that's bothered me for some time, that in order to capture an airfield you have to bomb and strafe a civilian town including all the local churches (How exactly do they prevent the takeover anyway? By inviting the troops in for a revival meeting???) Oh, and BTW where is the hospital, the school, and the orphanage that need to be flattened prior to the takeover?
I've debated how to bring the topic up; requesting that HT remove the churches entirely seemed counter-productive from my perspective. I then briefly considered asking HT to begin randomly adding in Synagogues and Mosques (Masjids) knowing that the user community would go berserk at the un-PCness of blowing them up, but at least that would illustrate my point. Personally, I'd much prefer not having to break the Geneva Convention in order to capture a field. Why not just replace the town with an adjacent military garrison rather than a civilian target?
I bring this up again simply because a little while ago I was participating in a capture with someone who filled the local vox with his glee at taking out the church and killing the biblethumpers.
Any thoughts? Yes, I know its just a game, but I would imagine that Jewish players would have significant problems with neo-nazi glee at getting to strafe and bomb a synagogue. :(
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Its a game. And if your going aganst the bombing of churches, then killing of other people should be ruled out then.
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What about the sheep? Why doesn't anybody think about the poor sheep??
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You have trouble bombing a virtual church
you don't have trouble killing virtual human ?
It's a joke no ?
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Well, while it may be a tad insensitive from that point of view, look at it this way. No matter how many times that town is blown up, the churches are always one of the first things to come back up. :) And you can be rest assured that no matter what country owns the field, there WILL be a church there. It will always be rebuilt. During a capture, just consider it a casualty of war.
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Always thought it was odd that we had to obliterate the nearby civillian targets to take over the military ones.
I tried to explain it to a buddy who was new to AH once. When he asked why you have to take out the town, I couldn't do any better than "uhh, because they supply the base with food and stuff."
A nearby garrison or supply depot/rail station would make more sense. Not that I expect it to get changed, or even have a problem with it besides it doesn't seem very logical.
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Originally posted by Seagoon
I then briefly considered asking HT to begin randomly adding in Synagogues and Mosques (Masjids) knowing that the user community would go berserk at the un-PCness of blowing them up, but at least that would illustrate my point.
Please elaborate as to whether or not your main interest is religious tolerance or making a point.
Most of the churches I see look like any other building, same with synagogues and mosques. In fact, I would say that a church/synagogue/mosque that looks 'stereotypical', eg big onions for Islam, tall steeples for the Christians, and... tall steeples I guess for the Jewish is actually pretty unusual and not so common after all.
This is another straw man argument, the way you (later in your post) bemoan the outrage that all of the libtards would have as they shook with PC fervor. It hasn't happened, and it probably wouldn't happen.
Finally, I'm not sure how 'hip' you are to the religious layout of Europe. During WWII, it was predominantly Christian. The jewish synagogues looked pretty similar to the christian churches, and there was limited acceptance from either side for the muslims, so not a huge number of flashy mosques in smalltown deutschland. The fact that the pacfic maps show so many churches is kinda funny, actually, considering how little christianity had taken root in asia at the time of the war.
Essentially... this is a non-issue, and not just because I'm some sort of antichrist who probably sacrifices chickens while worshipping false idols or something.
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Although I agree if it were a mosque or synagog(sp) you'd probably here alot about it. I wouldnt let it bother ya. I mean its a virtual world. Id accept if you were virtually upset. :)
I think it would be kinda cool if certain structures had penalties, but ww2 was total war. Things died and were destroyed that shouldnt have.
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I'd consider the term "church" as a rather generic term in the game. It would stand for all of the possible structures dedicated to all religions.
Other than removing them I don't see much of a possible fix to it.
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For the 1st time I miss the good ol' rolleyes emoticon.
If you want my 0.02 cents, I find it a bigger crime to bomb/destroy houses than religious buildings (if both are empty of people).
Stop playing the game if it offends you.
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If it makes you feel better, just assume those haven't been consagrated.
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Originally posted by deSelys
If you want my 0.02 cents, I find it a bigger crime to bomb/destroy houses than religious buildings (if both are empty of people).
At the risk of setting off an I-Bomb (for ironic), "Amen!"
Seagoon, please elaborate why the homes (filled with the personal memories and possessions of people who have worked their lives to provide for their families) would be less worthy of note than Churches/Mosque/etcetcetc?
A church is nothing but a meeting place, but according to the various bibles for these religious, God is everywhere.
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I don't care if churhes or mosques or whatever is blown away if housing is blown away too.
However I really like the idea of blowing up military buildings in a compound instead of a city. Would not ruin anything in the game but may actually make it abit more "realistic". New players would not find it odd at all and neither would excisting players i think. Good point with the Geneva convention too but then you need to get rid of the chute shooting too.
So basicly I agree with you Seagoon, just not for all of the same reasons.
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One could deduce the issue of bombing churches would mean that said church is an "icon" of worship. Isn't that a sin under christiainity?
seagoon, blow up the church's dude to prove you're not a sinner ;)
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Consider it just a little friendly reminder about the ugliness of war...
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How many is that. 12 people who didn't even get the humor in it Seagoon?
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Laser... umm... Of all the things I've seen Seagoon joke about, religion doesn't seem to be one of the things about which he casually jests. I think that perhaps you do him a disservice by making light of his closely held beliefs.
If I'm wrong, so it goes, but this doesn't quack like a joke, so show some respect please. I may not agree with him on matters religion, but I'll not look down my nose at his beliefs.
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(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/2/26/Hamburg_-_1944-45.jpg/796px-Hamburg_-_1944-45.jpg)
OMG! The CHURCH!
Only a religious man would moan the loss of a building amid the slaughter of people.
War is war.
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I routinely call out for the destruction of the mosque, they are all mosques in my eyes. anyone who has played while I'm on knows this.
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I want little schools to bomb!!
I want little kids to fly up in the air in all directions when you drop a pair of eggs on the day care center!
I want a dog pound that when you bomb it little cats and dogs go flying!
:D
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perhaps this is a little ironic coming from a man of the cloth who plays a game; the object of which is to virtually kill opponents as quickly as possible, or destroy their village?
There, I've finally said it.
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A lot of churches were destroyed in WWII. B-17s,Lancasters,B25's etc etc didnt pick and choose which buildings were gonna get blown up when they leveled a city. They just dropped the bombs.
Alot of churches were used as defencive positions in WWII which made them legitimate targets There is one in Italy in particular that comes to mind.
If we were destroying churches,mosques or synagogues BECAUSE they were regilious places I would agree with your point.
But we're not. Its just another building.
Even in RL too much is made of such places. Unless it has some historical significance they are just another building.
As a man of the cloth. do you really need that building to do your work? No. Churches are just a conviniant place for people to gather. You could do your work almost anywhere. Someones basement, or backyard. or in a park on an alter that truely is of "unworked stone"
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Wow.... very nicely played troll Seagoon!
WTG :aok
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Originally posted by Rolex
perhaps this is a little ironic coming from a man of the cloth who plays a game; the object of which is to virtually kill opponents as quickly as possible, or destroy their village?
There, I've finally said it.
I posed that very question some time back. And Seagoon. much to his credit gave a rather outstanding responce to it.
Perhaps he should revisit that responce. And see how it applies here.
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The day we make this game "politically correct", I'm out :)
I liked the old map/takeover style better, fwiw
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Good ****ing grief...
That is sad..
The loss of a church for the betterment of the world...
I'd destroy every church for peace on earth.
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Originally posted by DREDIOCK
Alot of churches were used as defencive positions in WWII which made them legitimate targets There is one in Italy in particular that comes to mind.
The Abbey of Monte Cassino? The German FJ's only occupied the abbey (or ruins thereof) after the allies had flattened it. Of course the allies didn't know the Germans were honoring the sanctity of the place when they destroyed it.
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Germans were known to use the steeples for sniper and artillary positions.
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Originally posted by BlueJ1
Germans were known to use the steeples for sniper and artillary positions.
So was everyone else.
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I'm pretty sure the reason for the inclusion of the church as a target is because HT hates the baby jesus, and wants to see the little guy cry. Big bully!
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Interesting thread.
And I think SOB is (as he put it in another thread) "onto something."
I mean lookit...
The city has got all these basic nondescript buildings all over the place.... then out of nowhere, a CHURCH!
Did Pyro come up with a Dice of Civilian Destruction ... each side adorned with the words "School" and "Hospital" and "Orphanage" and alas, "Church?" Did the dice just randomly land on "Church?"
Highly unlikely. So what factored into this particularly dubious game design decision?
Did HT poke his head into Nate & Supe's cube and whisper "One word, gentlemen: Church," and leave with a wink?
Waaaay more likely than a Dice of Civilian Destruction, is it not?
Therefore, HT hates the baby Jesus.
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LOL Seagoon -you oughta be ashamed of yourself for chuming out of season!:rofl
asw
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I give it a 6. :aok
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:huh
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Hi guys,
Well, I guess some issues are better addressed via email to HTC, and this was apparently one of them. Please forgive me for asking in public. My intention was not to troll, and sometimes I really do get lulled into a false sense of security and forget the amount of animus felt towards Christians around here.
The number of Chaplains honorably serving in the armed forces should be a give away that the majority of Christian denominations are not and never have believed that the bible taught absolute pacificism, but have always held that as long as this "present evil age" lasts, some limited war will be necessary if only so that magistrates might be able to defend their people against evildoers.
As he mentioned, Dredlock asked this question and the "why is a Pastor playing a wargame?", some months ago here then is the answer I gave him:
I play this as a wargame, just like I also play Stratego and Risk and so on. I stick to the rules of the game, and try to fly as a Christian man. Without swearing, cheating, getting furious, engaging in lewd discourse or becoming hopelessly addicted (which for Christians are frankly the greater dangers in this or any other on-line experience).
Now, popping up to the higher level question, i.e. Christians and War. The 6th Commandment in the Decalogue is not "Thou Shalt not Kill" in the Hebrew it is "Lo Ratsach" - no murder. This is an important difference, for it allows for the slaughtering of animals for food, and gives the magistrate the power to wage war against evil doers and to use capital punishment (particularly in the case or murder). This is explicitly spelled out in Gen 9:6, and Romans 13:4.
Additionally, the calling of Soldier is an honorable one, and not forbidden to Christians. So for instance in Luke 3 the soldiers who ask John the Baptist "What should we do" are not told to cease being Soldiers, but to cease from being dishonest, likewise Jesus commends a Centurion for his faith in Him in Mark 8:10-12 and states explicitly that he will be in heaven. Peter likewise in Acts 10 visits the house of Cornelius, baptizing him and his family and declaring they have been saved. At no point are these men told, your vocation is absolutely at odds with Christianity as say prostitution or thievery clearly are.
When is a war "just" has been a question of concern to Christian theologians and laymen for centuries, and for instance during the second world war C.S. Lewis did a radio series for the BBC explaining just war theory and why the war against the axis met the criteria. Here is a brief outline of what general rules of just war Christian theologians have distilled from scripture:
1. Just cause. All active aggression is condemned; only a defensive war is legitimate. However, if it is obvious that the other side is clearly preparing for aggression based on solid evidence and past performance a justifiable "first strike" would be allowable.
2. Just intention. The only legitimate intention of a just war is to eventually and, as soon as practicable, secure a just peace. Wars of economic gain, religious expansion/control, revenge, or ideology are unacceptable.
3. Last resort. War can only be begun when all good faith discussions, compromises and negotiations have failed. Again this is hard to gauge if one side is not honestly participating in the effort.
4. Government involvement and formal declaration. This is the action of government not individuals. Some sort of "state of war" must be clearly declared. In this day of terrorist organizations that are not under a government clouds this; states supporting such terrorist organizations would then be held responsible for terrorist acts.
5. Limited objectives. If the purpose of war is ultimately peace, then total destruction of the nation is not just. Only narrow war-fighting objectives that bring the war to a successful conclusion are legitimate. Blanket bombing, gassing, the destruction of a people's way of life is not warranted.
6. Proportional means. This is tied closely to #5, the type of weaponry and tactics employed should be limited to secure the limited objectives (repelling the aggressor, deterring future illegal attacks, removing specific aggressive individuals/groups from power).
7. Protection for non-combatants. Since war fighting is a declared, official act of organized government, only those who are active agents of that government (its fighting soldiers--not POWs, casualties, civilian non-participants) may fight. Others should be protected from aggressive acts of violence.
(These general "just war" guidelines were taken from an article by Arthur F. Holmes, "The Just War," 1981.).
Hope this is of use to someone,
Now getting back to AH2 and the critical difference between the structure of the game and the actual second world war. Admittedly, and regretfully, countless churches, schools, hospitals and other civilian targets were in fact destroyed by bombing, but the critical difference was, that unless the Geneva convention had already been violated by enemy forces using them for military purposes (as the allies suspected had happened at Monte Casino) they were never specifically targeted for destruction. In other words, with that exception, allied pilots never received a briefing - "Here Gentlemen are your targets, these houses, this hospital, and these two small churches" At no point was the destruction of hospitals/churches etc. anything but unfortunate collateral damage. In AH2 however they are primary targets, their destruction is absolutely necessary if the war is to be won. In fact, it is more important to target and destroy the churches than the hangers as you can take an airfield in an entirely intact condition, but the town must be entirely flattened. You see the critical difference?
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That is probally one of the best posts toward defending ones opinion Ive ever seen.
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Originally posted by Seagoon
Well, I guess some issues are better addressed via email to HTC, and this was apparently one of them. Please forgive me for asking in public. My intention was not to troll, and sometimes I really do get lulled into a false sense of security and forget the amount of animus felt towards Christians around here.
Sorry Seagoon, but I for one simply think your concern for a building in a flight simulator is just plain silly. You can blame it on this supposed surplus of animosity towards Christians you see, but I just don't see it.
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Originally posted by Seagoon
Admittedly, and regretfully, countless churches, schools, hospitals and other civilian targets were in fact destroyed by bombing, but the critical difference was, that unless the Geneva convention had already been violated by enemy forces using them for military purposes (as the allies suspected had happened at Monte Casino) they were never specifically targeted for destruction.
You have to be kidding. Ask the people of Dresden or Hamburg or Hiroshima or Nagasaki if they were in violation of the Geneva Conventions when the US and UK air forces were razing their entire cities to the ground killing hundreds of thousands of civilians. They were deliberately targeted for destruction, including their churches and hospitals and kindergartens etc.
Good Christian American and British airmen.
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Annihilating religion - one simulated church at a time. :lol
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Okay, I've got a new theory...
A meeting was called, and the question was asked: "What would inspire the players to fly higher, fight harder, and be glorious?"
"I dunno..." came the response.
"Well," said HT, "What if there was put into place a meaningful, treasured and universally adored structure that people would rally behind?"
"Go on..." said they.
HT goes on: "What symbol of civilization is the most cherished and beloved in the land?"
The meeting lasted several days. There was much scratching of the head. Finally, on the seventh day, Nate spoketh thusly: "Why, the Church!" said Nate.
"Ah, indeed" said all, in unison.
And on the Seventh Day, HT Created Church.
So the church's presence in AH isn't something to negatively question, but instead.... be appropriately viewed as an out and out miracle.
The symbol of humanity rigidly juxtaposed against the ravages of war, and what did HT choose? A church!
I am not a man of the cloth, yet were I, I would fly just that much higher, and fight just that much harder.
The church.... what an honor its inclusion into this game that is.
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Holy crap! So those runstangs and focke-wussies flying up in the stratosphere are just trying to get closer to god?! Man, was I wrong about them! ;)
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I guess I'm the only one to laugh maniacaly while flying thu the pieces of a nice feshly straffed vitual church.
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Originally posted by FalconSix
You have to be kidding. Ask the people of Dresden or Hamburg or Hiroshima or Nagasaki.....
Ask them what?
*knock knock*
"Umm...still there?"
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They're still there. We didn't kill ALL of them you know. We just tried to.
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I agree with Seagoon. Let's get rid of the church and replace it with an orphanage. Or a hospital.
-- Todd/Leviathn
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No. Make it a giant animated kitten.
People would sacrifice themselves to save the kitten.
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Seagoon is right. As it is a WW2 game, there should be a shinto shrine we could devastate.
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Ditch the church.
Replace it with a mom-like animated figure looking up at your nose-diving plane and screaming "Whyyyyyyyy!!!"
Way better.
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I think I have heard it all now.
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Originally posted by Nash
Ditch the church.
Replace it with a mom-like animated figure looking up at your nose-diving plane and screaming "Whyyyyyyyy!!!"
Way better.
I wus kinda hoping they'd go with the Buddy Jesus theme myself.
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they were never specifically targeted for destruction. In other words, with that exception, allied pilots never received a briefing - "Here Gentlemen are your targets, these houses, this hospital, and these two small churches" At no point was the destruction of hospitals/churches etc. anything but unfortunate collateral damage. In AH2 however they are primary targets, their destruction is absolutely necessary if the war is to be won. In fact, it is more important to target and destroy the churches than the hangers as you can take an airfield in an entirely intact condition, but the town must be entirely flattened. You see the critical difference? [/B]
they are primary targets only in the manner they must be destroyed in order to take the feild. But they are not targeted specifically because they are religious places.
If they were I'd agree with you.
The town simulates exactly that. a town. Thre are all sorts of buildings in the towns here. Some resemble wherehouses and other assorted buildings of the time some watertowers,some Antenna. Just like a real town. and just like a real town there are churches.
There were alot more bombed then in the towns already mentioned. And I know of several instances where an American general rather then send his troops in to slug it out house to house in a defended town first seeked the surrender of a town under german control under threat of bombing it into oblivion and upon refusal of that request did exactly that. Had the town leveled...everything. Including the churches.
The Destruction of churches during the war wasnt all that uncommon. a quick google search prodiced this info
Poland
St. Bridget's Church built in the 15th century and badly damaged during WWII.
Church of the Holy Trinity dating from 1394-1420
russia
St. Peter’s Church 13th century
St. Peter's Church (1169), Munich's oldest church, which was completely destroyed in World War II
Mecklenburg
Petri Church Dates from the mid 14th. century The 117 m. high golden steeple was destroyed in the air raids of WW2
St. George Church The Basilica was built in Wismar with three naves between the 14th. and 15th. centuries. It was seriously damaged in WW2
Serbia
400 Serbian Orthodox churches were destroyed. In the Diocese of Gornji Karlovac alone, out of 203 churches and chapels, 116 were destroyed and 39 heavily damaged during World War II. In the Diocese of Slavonia, 54 churches were destroyed and 21 seriously damaged. On the territory of the Diocese of Banja Luka, 64 churches were casualties, 21 damaged. Three monasteries were heavily damaged and one completely destroyed. One chapel and 38 parish homes were destroyed, 12 parish homes damaged. In the same Diocese, 98 monasteries and parish libraries perished forever, as well as 94 archives. One half of all the Serbian churches destroyed during the Second World War were located on the territory of these three Dioceses
Nov 14 1940 Coventry is destroyed by 500 Luftwaffe bombers: 150,000 fire bombs, 503 tons of high explosives, 130 parachute mines level 60,000 of the city's 75,000 buildings, including the cathedral
Nov 29 1940 Air raid on City of London: 8 Wren churches destroyed
Berlin
Wassthedwig-Catholic Church of Berlin
Munich
Cathedral of Our Lady
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Seagoon has posted his opinion.
I don't agree with him, but this is getting abit over the top i think.
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Originally posted by CyranoAH
What about the sheep? Why doesn't anybody think about the poor sheep??
Because they are piss poor at tithing. ;)
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This is a joke, right?
If not, I suggest you refer to the Almighty Seagoon and leave us mortals to wage our virtual ongoing total war.
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I thought that religion was supposed to help focusing about the real important things in life...
I'll still take the time to answer you: if the destruction of the church would give a special advantage to the attacker (like destruction of dar or all FH on a field), I would have to agree with you that it would be a little bit over the top. But it's not the case.
And putting the blame on a supposed "animosity against christians" because a part of the community find this thread quite ridiculous is just weak.
In my case, the only animosity I have is against christian (and all other religions) nutjobs. I think that you are a good man and do a lot of good around you, but I'm saddened to see you sometimes wander perilously close to the border.
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Originally posted by straffo
You have trouble bombing a virtual church
you don't have trouble killing virtual human ?
It's a joke no ?
Probably a Christian thing....
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Anyone remember the south park episode with the Xmas nativity scene? After all the different religions had there say in what offended them, it pretty much didn't have anything left to it.
Gee Seagoon, I hoped that this was all just a troll.
I support you speaking your mind about religion on these boards, because you are a very well spoken guy about it and I've learned a bunch and in some aspects it has slightly shifted my viewpoints with your new info.
But please, keep in mind that this is just a game and your religion is not threatened by a simulated church being included in the mix of other objects that need to be virtualy destroyed (such as planes with virtual pilots flying them).
Aces High isn't responsible for what the pilot, that had maybe gone a little crazy about talking about destroying the church, had said and trying to take away that church isn't gonna change that pilot or anyone else one bit except for maybe creating a huge amount of animosity from some people that dont appreciate you bring religious politcs into their game.
But anyways, as I've said, I'm glad your around and are willing to share your views.
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On the topic of religion what I like about Jewish people, Hindu's, Budhists and Muslims is that they have never tried to ram their view of God down my throat at any available opportunity.
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Originally posted by Mukiwa
On the topic of religion what I like about Jewish people, Hindu's, Budhists and Muslims is that they have never tried to ram their view of God down my throat at any available opportunity.
step away from the pipe son. moslems are the world's most forceful proselytizers. usually they do it at gun point. google southern sudan and see what these "religion of peace" people are doing there. Look at how they quibble over differences within their own religion. they only stop killing each other just long enough to kill others. once the perceived threat is abated they gleefully resume the fraticide.
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Originally posted by straffo
You have trouble bombing a virtual church
you don't have trouble killing virtual human ?
It's a joke no ?
Virtually kill them all, for virtual god will know his virtual own...
I personally, am opposed to the brothel I found in these towns...I attempt to strafe every brothel I see in those towns first...
But leave the churches in, they're good for herding the good townsfolk into by the red coats for sedition against the monarchy..
Tronsky
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psssst...
it's not a *real* church.
i mean if you're gonna get into this aspect, how about the commandment not to kill, even "virtually?"
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the idea is to give the fluff driving mouse weilders and vehicle sissies something to do.
lazs
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Originally posted by Nash
Ditch the church.
Replace it with a mom-like animated figure looking up at your nose-diving plane and screaming "Whyyyyyyyy!!!"
Way better.
Naaa with a bunch of 8 year olds. name one of them "Esther" after my Aunt. She was one of three kids in her class left after a straffing run by P-51s on their way home from school.
Wierd, the one story from her about the war that involved A/C that she told. and she never thought it awful I enjoy WW2 flight sims.
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Thank goodness her classmates weren't strafed on their way home from Sunday School.
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Seagoon? Have you ever though that perhaps playing the "Sims online" to develop a parish and virtual "flock" may be more inline with your calling than a war game? My point? Only reenforcing what Shane said.
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Maybe I am one of the few to agree with Seagoon's opinion. Destroying a garrison would seem much better and much more immersive. To me it is not as much a point of religion, but of general ethics and gaming challenge (it seems kinda weird to have to bomb the civilian buildings every time). It is not really a huge issue the way it is now, but it could be better.
IMHO, it might be much more challenging and interesting if there were fewer building required destroyed to capture the "garrison" and the rest would be civilian buildings, maybe a hospital etc, which would actually give you minus points if you destroy them :)
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maybe it would help if you simply didn't consider it a "church" but merely a funny looking toolshed full of hoes and philip screwdrivers.
:aok
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Seagoon is on to something. Swastikas are verboten, but bombing churches is okay.
hmmm
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How many times have you heard.."the church is still up" right before a capture?
A lot of "someones" seem to have a problem with bombing the virtual church.
It is the last building to go in a lot of instances I`ve noticed.
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this is the most hilarious chute shooting/vulch/spawn camp whine thread EVAR![/i]
..but that's ALL it is.
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Is it denominational?
If not then pretend it's sheltering pedophilic ministers and priests, fleeing SS officers and resurrected agents of the Inquisition!
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Jackal,
I think it is because those 2 churches in towns are so small, almost like they were of different scale than other buildings. They are not so easy to spot and/or hit.
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Originally posted by storch
step away from the pipe son. moslems are the world's most forceful proselytizers. usually they do it at gun point. google southern sudan and see what these "religion of peace" people are doing there. Look at how they quibble over differences within their own religion. they only stop killing each other just long enough to kill others. once the perceived threat is abated they gleefully resume the fraticide.
How many Muslims, Jews, Buddhists and Hindu's have arrived at your door and decided that you needed to hear about their version fo the God person on Saturday afternoon when all the sane people are in a horizontal postion on their sofa's watching sports?
Or decided that it's time for a "(Insert Religious Choice Here)" forum on a BBS catering to a WW2 flight simulation?
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Amazing how worked up you folks can get telling someone else how wrong they are.
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Originally posted by StarOfAfrica2
Amazing how worked up you folks can get telling someone else how wrong they are.
And after I had gotten the impression that only Christians did that sort of thing....
Honestly, I dont see any problem with the little church buildings -- even as a christian myself, blowing them up never struck me one way or another. But, it bugged Seagoon, and he said something about it. The community at large doesnt share his concern.
Is there anything more to say? Or are some jsut enjoying the opportunity to stick it to seagoon?
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Heh, no just everybody cant wait to let everyone else know their opinion. And let anyone who doesnt agree with them know how wrong THEIR opinion is. :)
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Originally posted by StarOfAfrica2
Heh, no just everybody cant wait to let everyone else know their opinion. And let anyone who doesnt agree with them know how wrong THEIR opinion is. :)
Hmmm.... ya I see your point..... I too think that we should not allow discussion on the message boards anymore.
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I think it should be a military target full of resources which would control the activity of the assigned field.
The possibilities are unless. A few come to mind:
*ball bearing plants - control gv availability/deployment times/locations
* oil refineries - fuel availability/ rebuild times
* radar for ack control - controls accuracy/rate of fire of base ack/flak AI/Manned
* PXs - morale control (only takes 10 high morale troops to capture but may take 15/20 low morale goons, cause they just don't give a **** :)
* Comms - controls vox in the area/grid, check6 sending, purple text comm, etc
*etc,etc,etc....
from a gameplay/historic perspective, it makes sense to make it military and the whole "town flat" concept very one dimensional
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a priest or something? Why the anti-church rhetoric? What's wrong with belief? Wht's wrong with reverence for religious institutions?
This PC, anti-God, anti-church, anti-believer attitude is not healthy, or in agreement with YOUR stated humanistic principles. You may choose to believe or not, but please show some respect for those that choose belief.
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Originally posted by Simaril
Is there anything more to say? Or are some jsut enjoying the opportunity to stick it to seagoon?
Speaking for myself. Not at all. Seagoon seems like a real stad up decent guy. I've never met him face to face and he already has more of my respect then probably 95% of other men of the cloth I've known even if I dont agree with everything he says or beleives.
In this case I understand and respect his opinion.
I just dont agree with it.
Seagoon. Sorry if at any point you felt as though I were trying to "stick it to you" That was not my intent. Though I do understand how it might have come off that way
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Seagoon, I agree with Drediock. I think you made what appears to be a comical statement. It's not because your a Christian, it's just the irony is so amusing and just begs to be pointed out. Getting your rocks off on blowing up a virtual church in a computer could be classified as rather childish...but it's still a mostly free country.
I'm rather offended that a lot of pasta and sauce gets destroyed.... May you all get touched by His Noodily Appendage...
lothar
Pastafarian (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pastafarian)
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Dredlock, et al,
Thanks for the concern.
As far as concern for my feelings goes, I'm pretty thick skinned and I've gotten used to being viewed as somewhere between Carrie's mother and Jim Baker by the average Internet user. In any event I really don't have a leg to stand on if I start complaining considering how voraciously anti-Christian I was myself. Heck, I'd probably have considered the bombing the church an added bonus to the game prior to 1993. Although I'd be a liar if I said it doesn't get wearing after a while, all the petty Jebuz stuff and the nonsensical "Kristchuns is a brand new religion what threatens us like nevar be4 because they r teh most evil evar" replies. Eh. I guess its being judged according to a preconceived stereotypical notion rather than on actual actions and statements that drives you batty. If I were doing that, you'd be right to come down on me like a ton of bricks.
As far as this awful thread is concerned, I suppose I should have stated it differently from the start by saying thank you for NOT including virtual hospitals, schools, day care centers, playgrounds, etc. But at this point I consider the thread dead, and deeply regret bringing it up in the first place. Definitely my fault, and I ask you to forgive me for the utter lapse in common sense this evidenced. My apologies particularly go to Skuzzy and co for tossing the bone into the wolf den in the first place.
If my thinking on bringing this up was flawed from the begginning it is because if a Rabbi who played had complained about what was obviously a synagogue in the town (complete with star of David) that needed to be bombed in order to take the base and the associated inevitable anti-semetic glee and "kristallnacht" comments (believe me, nothing is too low for vox) I would understand and sympathize with his desire to get it out of the game. Obviously some level of sensitivity to that issue is already present or we'd have swastikas on aircraft as Sandman already pointed out. What I failed to remember is that that kind of sensitivity doesn't go both ways. I understand that, and will not whine about it any longer.
Again please accept my sincere apologies.
- SEAGOON
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No need to apologise for your opinion Seagoon nor for bringing it up.
I'm actually suprised by most of the replies given all the "prayers are sent" and prayer request threads and posts in the o'club. Maybe its a cultural thing with these prayers and not really a religiuos gesture. I'm not even gonna try to understand, just accept that its the way it is in America.
"Over here" only deeply religious people pray and those people would support your post 100%
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no need to apologize, i found the entier thread mildly humorous, and the obvious response was this:
that church is the church of AH, it worships the creator. we know for certain who that creator is...
ALL HAIL TEH SUPERFLY!!!!
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Originally posted by Seagoon
Although I'd be a liar if I said it doesn't get wearing after a while, all the petty Jebuz stuff and the nonsensical "Kristchuns is a brand new religion what threatens us like nevar be4 because they r teh most evil evar" replies.
If by "Jebuz stuff" you're referring to my comment, then I think you're more thin skinned then you let on.
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What about a virtual "Gentlemen's Club". It's loss could account for the lowered morale which would explain how a base capture was accomplished by 10 drunks. Just kidding.
Regards,
Malta
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Seagoon, the thread was something of a non-starter.. how can you drop a rock in a pond and not expect a splash?
Ever cross your mind that folks might react negatively to having a game that emulates the violence of war critiqued in it's public forum by a preacher because his rabbi buddy got red ears while playing it?
LOL!
and then this.. Your 'tired' of the "petty Jebuz stuff and the nonsensical "Kristchuns is a brand new religion what threatens us like nevar be4 because they r teh most evil evar" ??
Not for nuthin, buddy; but this just sounds like a chute shootin whine.
;)