Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Bodhi on August 30, 2005, 08:27:05 PM
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I have been reading, and seeing (on the news) reports of looting going on in Biloxi and New Orleans. While a few have been trying to get essentials (before the flood waters in NO ruins them) alot have been hitting jewelry stores, homes, and normal businesses. One reprt said this went on in front of police and national guardsmen....
In one word I think I can sum up how I feel about those looters trying to profit from this. DEATH
I sincerely hope that those tasked with guarding the cities under their jurisdiction will use any and all means to end this nonsense, and teach those foul dregs of life a lesson that does not require a jail.
God Bless those who are in peril and those who have lost loved ones and property.
I am absolutely disgusted by the behaviors of these people. What are your thoughts.
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I think you're on to something.
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I don't blame the National guard for not doing anything.
1. they probably don't have orders
2. When the Army of the state, who's charged with fighting enemy's of the state, start fighting the people of the state; The people of the state become the enemy of the state.
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The hurricane pushed away most of the good people and left a good deal of pond scum.
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Originally posted by SOB
I think you're on to something.
Lol.
But seriously... Looters make people think twice about evacuating - which puts the Think Twicers in peril. It's very serious.
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Shoot all looters, just make sure you have your NAACP card on you.
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The penalty for theft shouldn't be death.
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Your right, just chop off a hand.
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Originally posted by Yeager
Shoot all looters, just make sure you have your NAACP card on you.
:rofl
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Originally posted by BlueJ1
Your right, just chop off a hand.
That's an alternative, but I prefer less Taliban like methods of punishment. Not the kind of people I'd like to be associated with.
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:D
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The penalty for theft shouldn't be death.
Well, true.
Yet the penalty for staying behind and preventing looters does actually sometimes mean death - be it from earthquake, typhoon, flood, hurricane, whatever.
For some of these small shop owners, they are screwed if their little business gets decommissioned by some thugs with nothing bigger in mind than a grand design on a larger teevee.
So for the shop owners? Maybe this time they heard the weather reports and decided to get out of Dodge. And maybe they'll come back to a life of flipping burgers and kissing their kid's college tuition sweet goodbye. Or maybe they'll try and start over. Or maybe everyone else gets to chip more of their money into the insurance pot.
But the next time, when these weather reports come in? They're gonna think twice. Maybe they won't be so eager to save themselves.
Death penalty, no.
An example made out of - absolutely.
The winds are punishing. This is Nash reporting from the Great White North, over to you Darren. lol.
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Originally posted by Nash
Yet the penalty for staying behind and preventing looters does actually sometimes mean death - be it from earthquake, typhoon, flood, hurricane, whatever.
If they value their possessions more than their lives, it's their business and not the Law's.
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Same goes for the looters. If they value stealing rather then helping other, and freeing up the National Guard troops and police required to babysit the population then maybe something should be done.
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Such a tragedy of human behavior. I am curious if we will see commentary from society's leaders of such looting factions. What might Bill Cosby say?
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Originally posted by FalconSix
If they value their possessions more than their lives, it's their business and not the Law's.
I aint saying it's right. But some people consider their means of livelihood on equall footing with their life. The same thing, to them.
Look how many people started jumping out of buildings when the stock market tanked in the thirties.
People do what they do, and always will.
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rogwar, not from what I saw, I didnt see any white people. But this has nothing to do with the topic, skin tone dos not matter.
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Originally posted by Nash
The winds are punishing. This is Nash reporting from the Great White North, over to you Darren. lol.
Nash.... I am utterly disappointed in you're attempt to make humor in this. :(
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Originally posted by Nash
I aint saying it's right. But some people consider their means of livelihood on equall footing with their life. The same thing, to them.
Look how many people started jumping out of buildings when the stock market tanked in the thirties.
People do what they do, and always will.
Then they are responsible for their own choices and the repercussions of them. The thieves are only responsible for their own choices too.
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Looting is not simple "theft".
Thats why its called looting?
Warn them 1st and then shoot if you have to. You cant allow that sort of thing to go unchallenged on a large scale. The message gets out quickly.
Martial Law has been declared in the state, so they aren't messing around.
My thoughts are with the people of the Gulf Coast states. Wish them all the best. Its tragic.
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Originally posted by BlueJ1
Same goes for the looters. If they value stealing rather then helping other, and freeing up the National Guard troops and police required to babysit the population then maybe something should be done.
Arrested and charged with theft perhaps? Doesn't the police always babysit the population? I was under the impression that's what they get paid for.
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Originally posted by Bodhi
Nash.... I am utterly disappointed in you're attempt to make humor in this. :(
Why?
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NATIONAL GUARD CAPTAIN:
"Troops, your to help the folks to high ground, stay together and in contact with HQ. We've all heard about the reports of looting. This is very serious...Now listen up, this is very important... You musn't shoot the looters on CNN....
....Fox has the Exclusive on this.
Dismissed."
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Originally posted by FalconSix
Arrested and charged with theft perhaps?
There's no jail available to incarcerate them in N.O.
They are emptying the jails and moving prisoners out.
Looters may be stopped and issued a citation or something but then they're released. There's no way, at present, to do anything else.
Just guessing here but in the mess that is N.O. right now, I seriously doubt a citation to appear at a later date to answer the charge of looting is going to be much of a deterrent.
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Originally posted by Hangtime
NATIONAL GUARD CAPTAIN:
"Troops, your to help the folks to high ground, stay together and in contact with HQ. We've all heard about the reports of looting. This is very serious...Now listen up, this is very important... You musn't shoot the looters on CNN..
....Fox has the Exclusive on this.
Dismissed."
hahahahaha
That's funny! well not really funny if it actually happens but you know.
Truth be told....well I can't tell the truth in open society because I will be branded a rascist but we all saw this back in LA a few years ago. Nuff said.
I holey disagree with using Guard troops to police the population. Like I said these guys are soldiers and they are supposed to fight the enemy of the state. When they start fighting people of the state, the people become the enemy.
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Gunslinger, I didn't know you were Adama. ;)
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no....just shoot em. Dont have to kill em, just wound em really.
Give em somthing to regret I guess.
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sooner or later some pissed off over stressed kid's gonna pull a trigger.
i do hope it don't get seriously ugly.
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As in Chappelle's Show, if you shoot them below the waste it's not attempted murder. GO FOR IT!
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round them up and put them in the superdome for two months after they remove the 10k ppl who are enjoying themselves in it now...
... then shoot them.
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Two words - "Fix Bayonets"
Too bad the bayonets are all black now...the sight of a nice shiny blade glinting in the sun and 15 soldiers carrying weapons with said blade attached should be more than enough to deter your average "opportunistic acquision specialist"
P.S. In most states theft during a natural disaster (looting) makes it a worse offense. In Pennsylvania at least it makes it a second degree felony. Let's see if they can even begin to enforce that.
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Originally posted by FalconSix
Gunslinger, I didn't know you were Adama. ;)
Good catch.....but true!
Truth be told I have no problem with people taking food. If they wanted to go the extra mile they'd leave an IOU or somthing witht here name and phone number.
There's even a report of people robin hooding it. Taking it to pass out at centers and such.
What I do have a problem with is a bunch of guys breaking into a foot locker and taking a bunch of shoes or goin into jewlery stores.
If I was a pawn shop or a gun store owner I'd feel obligated to stay behind and stand watch out of personal responsibility. Like I said we've seen this before though.
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Originally posted by SOB
Why?
He doesn't know why he said that.
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Scavenging for the basics of life (food, water, shelter) is not looting. Its surviving. People are running out of the basics down there.
Breaking into casinos, banks, businesses and peoples homes looking for valuables is looting.
According to CNN, one New Orleans officer has already been shot while confronting looters.
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Teh media is teh funnay.
Less funnay than our perceptions, but still:
"A young man walks through chest deep flood water after looting a grocery store in New Orleans on Tuesday, Aug. 30, 2005. Flood waters continue to rise in New Orleans after Hurricane Katrina did extensive damage when it made landfall on Monday. (AP Photo/Dave Martin) Email Photo Print Photo"
Picture (http://us.news3.yimg.com/us.i2.yimg.com/p/ap/20050830/capt.ladm10208301530.hurricane_katrina_ladm102.jpg?x=380&y=242&sig=GHO9i4_aeNXEsJOv2t1OHg--)
Or?
Two residents wade through chest-deep water after finding bread and soda from a local grocery store after Hurricane Katrina came through the area in New Orleans, Louisiana.(AFP/Getty Images/Chris Graythen)
Picture (http://us.news3.yimg.com/us.i2.yimg.com/p/afp/20050830/capt.sge.cyn78.300805074130.photo01.photo.default-268x384.jpg?x=240&y=345&sig=XFVzW6oiTkp9hr7J.ex3Qw--)
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Rioting and civil disobedience is another matter entirely. If the looters are endangering public servants and people in general they should be dealt with by any means necessary.
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Originally posted by Bodhi
I am absolutely disgusted by the behaviors of these people. What are your thoughts.
Poverty sucks.
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^
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Originally posted by Sandman
Poverty sucks.
does that excuse stealing 20 pair of nikes because of a disaster?
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Originally posted by FalconSix
The penalty for theft shouldn't be death.
why not? it is a proven way to keep theives from stealing again.
Unlike jail time
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Originally posted by DREDIOCK
why not? it is a proven way to keep theives from stealing again.
Unlike jail time
So is chopping people's hands off, but like I said I prefer less Taliban like methods of punishment.
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Originally posted by Gunslinger
does that excuse stealing 20 pair of nikes because of a disaster?
Are 20 pairs of shoes worth killing or maiming for?
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I still say break out the bayonets
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If it keeps the next dirtbag from stealing another 20 pairs and frees up an officer to go search & rescue? Yeah. But frankly, I don't think the death of someone who's first thought after this tragedy is to steal some new shoes is much of a loss.
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38 Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth: 39 But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also. 40 And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let him have thy cloke also. 41 And whosoever shall compel thee to go a mile, go with him twain. 42 Give to him that asketh thee, and from him that would borrow of thee turn not thou away.
43 Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy. 44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; 45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust. 46 For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same? 47 And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so? 48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.
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lol Sandman, Seagoon will be along shortly to explain how "Christian theologians have distilled from scripture" a completely different meaning. :D
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Deleted.
4- Members should post in a way that is respectful of other users and HTC. Flaming or abusing users is not tolerated.
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Originally posted by FalconSix
So is chopping people's hands off, but like I said I prefer less Taliban like methods of punishment.
this is true. And to date your way has worked so well LMAO
Half the problem we have with crime is we coddle criminals instead of giving them the punishment they deserve or any kind of real punishment.
Lop off their hands. or their heads for that matter. preferably publically so everyone can see their fate.
Or at the very least give them hard labor. Let em make little rocks out of big ones.
Brand a theif on his forehead with a big T
when are people going to realise that in the majority of cases rehabilitation DOESNT WORK.
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Originally posted by FalconSix
lol Sandman, Seagoon will be along shortly to explain how "Christian theologians have distilled from scripture" a completely different meaning. :D
Along with that, I look forward to Seagoon's evaluation of an atheist quoting Matthew. ;)
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Originally posted by DREDIOCK
this is true. And to date your way has worked so well LMAO
Half the problem we have with crime is we coddle criminals instead of giving them the punishment they deserve or any kind of real punishment.
Lop off their hands. or their heads for that matter. preferably publically so everyone can see their fate.
Or at the very least give them hard labor. Let em make little rocks out of big ones.
Brand a theif on his forehead with a big T
when are people going to realise that in the majority of cases rehabilitation DOESNT WORK.
I recommend you move to Iran. I think you'll like it there.
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Originally posted by FalconSix
I recommend you move to Iran. I think you'll like it there.
Nope . I would much rather we go back to the way we used to punish people for crimes instead of the current paddy cake method
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Originally posted by Bodhi
Deleted.
4- Members should post in a way that is respectful of other users and HTC. Flaming or abusing users is not tolerated.
You need to re-read my posts. I was down with your **** (yeah I know, unbelievable).
Are you just sniping? Or did you really fail to comprehend what I said?
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Common sense goes a long way in these things (as it always does), and Im sure the authorities will be able to distinguish people who are getting supplies to survive the critical 24-72 hrs from those who are running rampant trying to steal all kinds of crap. Its not hard to figure out who is who.
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Originally posted by DREDIOCK
Nope . I would much rather we go back to the way we used to punish people for crimes instead of the current paddy cake method
Go back to when?
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Go back to when?
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I dont think going back to any particular era would solve anything....I think going forward to a new method of dealing with crime would be better.
One thing seems for certain, punishment distribution is both unequally distributed and unfarily administered in the majority of cases that I have observed.
I must admit though, back when frontier justice was the only justice available to people settling the west, I get the sense that crime was a far more clear cut issue then it is today. You steal a mans horse, and are found guilty of it then you are immediately hung by the neck until dead.
No debate.
I can only imagine that when a man decided to steal another mans horse, the thief knew and accpeted the consequences and everyone was far better off for it.
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Originally posted by FalconSix
Go back to when?
early 1900's. 1800's, 1700's,
Better yet.
1600's
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1600s starts to sound like islam to me drediok and that makes me want to vomit.
Lets evolve to a higher more equitable plain of execution :D
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Originally posted by DREDIOCK
early 1900's. 1800's, 1700's,
Better yet.
1600's
Ah yes. Butchering women and children, slavery, law of the gun. What a great time for justice in America that was.
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If they loot/steal food or clean water to survive then ok... some of these people may have lost their homes with their supplies.
but you dont need a tv or a computer to survive.
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Ah yes. Butchering women and children, slavery, law of the gun. What a great time for justice in America that was.
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whats wrong with people owning guns?
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Originally posted by FalconSix
Ah yes. Butchering women and children, slavery, law of the gun. What a great time for justice in America that was.
It was a great time. You just don't understand.
Unlike now, the courts free-styled it. None of this garbage like you have today with all this law and whatever.
And the schools? Well damn - they knew basically nothing. No librahl-type educators or (hah!) professors. Just plain nothing. Aint it beautiful? One day.... again.
The press? Ignorant like it gawdamned-well oughta be.
The arts? Renoire or Monet? HOLLYWOOD *******! Puhlease.
The very government back then? Washington, Lincoln, et al? Who gives a damn? I mean, they're the government! fer chrissakes. Are you kidding me?
The military? None of this pansy arsed body armour humvee crap. Who needs it? Ya stand up, ya try and shoot, and you get pegged. I get tears in my eyes just thinking about it. That, my friends, is patriotism. Now please excuse me 'cuz the Pizza Man has arrived.
And all this hooplah about religion? Jesus - spare me. Contemplate a beer can. Why is the beer can? Nobody can explain it. But I can. It's called "Intelligent Design." Now quit asking all these complicated questions.
Just dumb the hell up, please? Already? Thank you.
I'm with ya DREDIOCK. Lets go back in time. And lets take society with us.
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Originally posted by Yeager
Ah yes. Butchering women and children, slavery, law of the gun. What a great time for justice in America that was.
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whats wrong with people owning guns?
Nothing, as long as they're not our law and justice system.
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Welcome to America...
Give a reason, Someone of COLOR beat up by "White" Policemen,
or a Major Catastrophe... and Waaaalaa... Looters..All BLACK!!
There's yer People of COLOR! Where's Al Sharpton? Where's Jesse Jackson... yer Religious Men of Color? Farrakan?... Ohhhhh....But let it all be the "White" man looting... Then we'd hear the BLACK man speak out!
I'm just sooo frikken tired of this chit.
Oh BTW Jesse Jackson is in Venuzualia comforting Chavez because he needs it right now.
I'll call and toss the predjee card on the table right now...
Prove me wrong!
Love to All my Brothers and Sisters,
Mac
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IN
Because you can't handle the Truth!
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Originally posted by Nilsen
If they loot/steal food or clean water to survive then ok... some of these people may have lost their homes with their supplies.
but you dont need a tv or a computer to survive.
AMEN Nilsen...That's why I like you...more than yer ghey hat...
But the Nilsen Dog was good.
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And Nash, tuck yer Canadian head back up yer trollin Canuck prettythang... ESAD.
Love,
Mac
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Originally posted by Nash
Teh media is teh funnay.
Less funnay than our perceptions, but still:
"A young man walks through chest deep flood water after looting a grocery store in New Orleans on Tuesday, Aug. 30, 2005. Flood waters continue to rise in New Orleans after Hurricane Katrina did extensive damage when it made landfall on Monday. (AP Photo/Dave Martin) Email Photo Print Photo"
Picture (http://us.news3.yimg.com/us.i2.yimg.com/p/ap/20050830/capt.ladm10208301530.hurricane_katrina_ladm102.jpg?x=380&y=242&sig=GHO9i4_aeNXEsJOv2t1OHg--)
Or?
Two residents wade through chest-deep water after finding bread and soda from a local grocery store after Hurricane Katrina came through the area in New Orleans, Louisiana.(AFP/Getty Images/Chris Graythen)
Picture (http://us.news3.yimg.com/us.i2.yimg.com/p/afp/20050830/capt.sge.cyn78.300805074130.photo01.photo.default-268x384.jpg?x=240&y=345&sig=XFVzW6oiTkp9hr7J.ex3Qw--)
That is teh funnay!!!
Media manipulation at its finest.
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this may surprise some but I would not give the power to shoot UNARMED or nonviolent looters to the national guard units. I don't trust them to make life and death decisions for citizens based on if they think someone is stealing or not.
I also would not kill someone for stealing. I might kill someone who broke into my store while I was there tho. It would depend on if I felt threatened or not... if he turned and ran away or lay on the floor face down till the cops got there to haul him off when he seen I was armed and ready... no need to shoot. That is the beauty of being armed... it gives you options. An armed looter would be shot the instant he entered... one with a close quarters weapon like a club or knife would be shot before he got within 20 feet of me. I would shoot to stop. center of mass until stopped.
lazs
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Originally posted by FalconSix
Ah yes. Butchering women and children, slavery, law of the gun. What a great time for justice in America that was.
Nooooo.
Dont try to lead this in a direction you and I both know I never intended
What I said was "we should go back to the way we used to punish people for Crimes "
The current system simply does not work. Pure and simple.
All you have to do is look at how many there are in prison who are repeat offenders to see that rehabilitation does not work. Plain and simple.
We used to punish people for CRIMES in all sorts of nasty ways.
Now what we do is house them,cloth them feed them 3 squares a day. warm bed and blankets and give them a health care system that is currently better by far then the vast majority of the rest of the country has.
We also give them an education so that when they get out we now have educated criminals. In prisons bulging with prisoners almost to the point of overlfow. Their biggest worry? Other prisoners. . All at taxpayer expence. Whoopie do
I am tired of reading and hearing on the news that this guy raped someone,murdered someone,was caught doing an armed robbery,molested a child,got caught dealing drugs etc etc etc who has a history of doing these things before.
Im tired of hearing about how prisoners rights and how prisoners need to be treated better and how they had to live in deplorable conditions then having to pay for the same people doing the same crimes over and over and over again.
Screw that already. They are prisoners. they shouldnt have ANY rights while they are in prison.
Make prisons tougher, meaner uglier more nasty.
Let em live on bread and water. Screw giving them a health care system of any kind. they get sick and die..oh well. If they hadnt commited the crime they wouldnt be there in the first place.
You murder someone intentionally. you forfit your own life.
And none of this endless appeals that go on and on for 20 years.
you keep repeating the same offence. you forfit your life. Or spend life in prison..no parrol.
Beat them,whip them,dunk them, make criminals subject to public humiliation.
Better yet. instead of sending these guys to prison. we should force them into the armed services and use them for cannon fodder make them go into the nastier war zones. Gangbangers wanna kill? well here's a gun. Go kill.
Survive 10 years without getting killed and maybe we let you go.
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A lot of you seem to blame the laws and current punishments but you forget the one main thing that we had before the 90's----parenting. Blame yourselves and other parents for not teaching children right from wrong!!!! I even catch myself saying "please stop that" a couple times to my son when if it was my father it would be "stop it" then the smack that followed. Just a thought though, blame who you like.
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So I guess we all agree looting is bad?
:aok
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most do not know their parents. That is the hip and groovy way to run your life these days.
lazs
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OH man, everyone's swinging out with the big guns today.
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Originally posted by parker00
A lot of you seem to blame the laws and current punishments but you forget the one main thing that we had before the 90's----parenting. Blame yourselves and other parents for not teaching children right from wrong!!!! I even catch myself saying "please stop that" a couple times to my son when if it was my father it would be "stop it" then the smack that followed. Just a thought though, blame who you like.
On that point you wont get an arguement from me.
I know I didnt do alot of things I would have done because I was a hell of alot more afraid of my fathers reaction then I ever was of anything else.
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People getting food for them and their family- that's understandable. In fact, one of the Wal-Marts opened its doors and told the victims to take what they want. OTOH, those that have been filmed breaking into pawn shops and electronics stores, should be id'd and prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law afterwards. Besides, what the heck do they need a new TV for when there isn't any power?
CNN was interviewing one of the National Guardsmen last night re:shooting looters. I loved his reply:
CNN: "How can you shoot women and children just trying to survive after this terrible flooding?"
National Guardsman: "It's easy - you just have to lead them a little more...."
My apologies to the movie this originally came from (can't remember right now...)
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"YOU HAVE TO LEAD THEM A LITTLE LESS!" (not more)
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Hey if even the cops are doing it...
why not? (http://www.infoshop.org/inews/article.php?story=20050830150050234)
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Caption this photo:
http://news.yahoo.com/photo/050830/480/ladm10908301723/print :lol
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Originally posted by Ripsnort
Caption this photo:
http://news.yahoo.com/photo/050830/480/ladm10908301723/print :lol
Refer to the "Slammed I am" thread. :)
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Big rubber bullets.
Taze the others.
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Many have equated looting with theft, this is an imprecise analogy. Looting is more akin to rioting and loss of civil control.
One must understand the difference between scavenging during a crisis and looting. Generally, if starving and thirsty, one can be forgiven for scavenging food and necessities.
However, looting shoes, teevees, dvds, and perty clothes, completly different issue. Looting imperils lives, and loosens the social fabric. And finallly, looting has a severely negitive impact on already impoverished areas.
First, those who do it with impunity once, or talk about it afterward, embolden the next generation of looters. Who will, instead of evacuate, stay around for the lawlessness that pervades after a diasater like this one. This not only puts the waiting looters in danger, but also endangers, unecessarily those charged with finding and saving them. Moreover, as we see here, the sight of the looters pressures police and gaurd forces to stop it, which takes vital resources from search and rescue. It also means that store owners may be more likely to take a go-down-with-the-ship mentality and not evacuate themselves to at least gaurd their inventories (see above issue with staying behind)--good example Korean grocers during the King riots.
Second, looting loosens the social fabric. My guess is that the Nola looting will be painted, very quickly, as a poor v. rich, black v. white, phenomenon. This simply will engender more animosity between race and class, in an area already rich with such animosities. One good example is the Korean grocers in LA during the King riots. The rich will distrust the poor even more, and the whites will distrust the blacks even more. This is not only a symptom of the problem, but the cause--a vicious cycle. Moreover, letting looters do their deeds with impunity reinforces the mee first attitude that pervades this country. When the looters get "home" with their take, how many do you think chastize them for their callousness? Few I suspect. Instead they count their Nikes and teevees. Ironic given that they will probably lose that stuff in the ensuing floods that are bound to get worse as valuable resources are diverted to stem thier behavior.
Lastly, looting simply exacerbates the cycle of poverty even further. If your business was looted, and destroyed, would you: a) build in the same place again; b) move away; or c) build in the same place again and try to recoup losses by charging outrageously high price? I suspect answers a and c are appealing to the shop owners. Moreover, the warehouses in that area are likely to move as well--removing much needed jobs from the area. We will also see an increase in insurance premiums in those areas to react to looting--raising the cost of business and prices. Ever been to south-central LA?
The answer? Well several historic examples point to shooting looters on sight. See Allied Military Government of Occupied Territories (AMGOT) during WWII. However, the public will probably not palate shooting looters, with the response: "are shoes worth lives?" Couched in those terms shooting becomes distasteful. However, is shooting worth saving our social fabric, freeing up necessary resources to save other lives, and giving a disincentive for future looters, ensuring the fabric of society and possibly ending a cycle of poverty? Maybe. I realise the shooting may have the oppiste effect--and further engender animosity amongst the races and classes. Perhaps the answer is non-lethal area effect weapons. I distrust normal police tactics for looters in general. Thoughts?
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Originally posted by lazs2
I would shoot to stop. center of mass until stopped.
That is exactly what they taught us in the concealed carry renewal class I was in last weekend, do not shoot to kill, do not shoot to wound, do not shoot to deterr..."SHOOT TO STOP".
Plus the addition of the "I continued firing until the fear for my life passed" part.
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I say shoot em. If they happen to be looting my house please shoot them twice.
If I have anything left thats not underwater, I'd at least like it to still be there when I get back. :aok
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I guess my point is that I don't trust cops or military with firearms any more (or less) than ordinary citizens with firearms... they often have even less training and arguably, often, less moral and common sense.
I do not want armed groups of vigilantes roaming the streets either.
I say that you have the right to defend yourself if attacked tho and you have the right to arrest or detain someone commiting a crime.
If the only people armed are the police then you have a police state.
lazs
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Some of you folks actually disgust me with your posts.
This is a very graphic example of the apocolypse situation that was on the board just a few weeks ago. You are actually seeing in the safety of your homes sitting in your easy chair the destruction of peoples lives much less the loss of property. Then you blithely toss jibes back and forth about how terrible it all is and how it should be handled. You really need an education in reality and can't recognise it when it's broadcast on your own tv screens.
I sincerely hope the thread gets locked soon. It's nothing but a giant troll and serves no purpose other than to spread your own brand of tripe.
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just curious mav...
is there something I said that you disagree with?
lazs
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Shoes? TVs? Jewelry?
For those who use the argument...."You would shoot someone for stealing ?"
If someone enters my home to rob me of my shoes/TV/jewelry and I`ll add cash...........BANG!
If someone enters my business to rob me of my shoes/TV/jewelry and I`ll once again add cash............BANG.
That is under completely normal circumstances. Are you saying that you would just let em walk in a disaster where martial law has been declared?
There is no time, resources or manpower that should be devoted and waisted on the lowest of the low in this case for the "slap on the wrist". They know what they are doing and fully understand that they are taking advantage of the circumstances involved and that people are dieing, waiting to be rescued while they are looting and tieing up resources.
Cap a few and it will get the point across real quick. Then the manpower can be used to save lives worth saving.
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Originally posted by Maverick
You are actually seeing in the safety of your homes sitting in your easy chair... blithely toss jibes back and forth
What else is this forum for? Should we ignore the aftermath of Katrina becuase we are not there?
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Originally posted by Maverick
Some of you folks actually disgust me with your posts.
This is a very graphic example of the apocolypse situation that was on the board just a few weeks ago. You are actually seeing in the safety of your homes sitting in your easy chair the destruction of peoples lives much less the loss of property. Then you blithely toss jibes back and forth about how terrible it all is and how it should be handled. You really need an education in reality and can't recognise it when it's broadcast on your own tv screens.
I sincerely hope the thread gets locked soon. It's nothing but a giant troll and serves no purpose other than to spread your own brand of tripe.
Maverick, I believe these people sitting back in their easy chairs ARE in fact in reality, so much so, that they post their phylosophies (sp) on what to do, all knowing this could easily have been them. Mass looting after a catasrophy is always present. Any one of us could be in the same shoes these poor soles in AL,Miss,LA are in. What to do? I don't have the answers.
It is very discusting seeing the looting, survival is one thing, stealing is another and Looting falls into a whole different catagory. My prayers go out to the victims of this catastrophy,
what to do to the looters, well I'll keep that opinion to myself.
NUTTZ
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Grab the definate looters. Ones not getting simple survival materials, but necklaces, tv's, etc..
Chain-gang them and have them start filling & stacking sandbags.
2 birds, 1 stone.
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^^
:aok
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http://www.breitbart.com/news/2005/08/31/D8CASVK01.html
If they know they can do it with impunity, here is the result.
In the city's Carrollton section, which is on relatively high ground, looters commandeered a forklift and used it to push up the storm shutters and break the glass of a Rite-Aid pharmacy. The crowd stormed the store, carrying out so much ice, water and food that it dropped from their arms as they ran. The street was littered with packages of ramen noodles and other items.
New Orleans' homeland security chief, Terry Ebbert, said looters were breaking into stores all over town and stealing guns. He said there are gangs of armed men moving around the city.
The Times-Picayune newspaper reported that the gun section at a new Wal-Mart in the Lower Garden District had been cleaned out by looters.
Gunshots were heard throughout the night in Carrollton.
Police spokesman Marlon Defilo said an officer and a looter were wounded in a shootout. Defilo had no word on their condition. Three or four others were also arrested, he said.
One looter shot and wounded a fellow looter, who was taken to a hospital and survived.
Staff members at Children's Hospital huddled with sick youngsters and waited in vain for help to arrive as looters tried to break through the locked door, Blanco spokeswoman Denise Bottcher told the newspaper. Neither the police nor the National Guard arrived.
Authorities planned to send more than 70 additional officers and an armed personnel carrier into the city.
On New Orleans' Canal Street, dozens of looters ripped open the steel gates on clothing and jewelry stores and grabbed merchandise. In Biloxi, Miss., people picked through casino slot machines for coins and ransacked other businesses. In some cases, the looting was in full view of police and National Guardsmen.
The historic French Quarter appeared to have been spared the worst flooding, but its stores were getting the worst of human nature.
"The looting is out of control. The French Quarter has been attacked," Councilwoman Jackie Clarkson said. "We're using exhausted, scarce police to control looting when they should be used for search and rescue while we still have people on rooftops."
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Break out the Thompsons boys, time to restore order.
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I do not believe that we have the right to "restore order" we do have the right to defend ourselves and our property tho.
Sadly... our right to "break out the Thompsons" has allready been infringed upon contrary to human rights and affirmed by the second amendment of our constitution.
lazs
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Originally posted by indy007
Grab the definate looters. Ones not getting simple survival materials, but necklaces, tv's, etc..
Chain-gang them and have them start filling & stacking sandbags.
2 birds, 1 stone.
Would they be filling the bags with each other, or actual sand?
Just checking.... :lol
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latest story:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050831/ap_on_re_us/katrina_looting_hk1
NEW ORLEANS - With law officers and National Guardsmen focused on saving lives, looters around the city spent another day brazenly ransacking stores for food, clothing, appliances — and guns.
Thieves commandeered a forklift and used it to push up the storm shutters and break the glass of a pharmacy. The crowd stormed the store, carrying out so much ice, water and food that it dropped from their arms as they ran. The street was littered with packages of ramen noodles and other items.
Looters also chased down a state police truck full of food. The New Orleans police chief ran off looters while city officials themselves were commandeering equipment from a looted Office Depot. During a state of emergency, authorities have broad powers to take private supplies and buildings for their use.
Officials tried to balance security needs with saving lives.
"We're multitasking right now," said New Orleans Police Capt. Marlon Defillo. "Rescue, recovery, stabilization of looting, we're trying to feed the hungry."
Gov. Kathleen Blanco said she has asked the White House to send more people to help with evacuations and rescues, thereby freeing up National Guardsmen to stop looters.
"We need to free up the National Guard to do security in the city," Blanco said.
New Orleans' homeland security chief, Terry Ebbert, said looters were breaking into stores all over town and stealing guns. He said there are gangs of armed men moving around the city. At one point, officers stranded on the roof of a hotel were fired at by criminals on the street.
The Times-Picayune newspaper reported that the gun section at a new Wal-Mart had been cleaned out by looters.
Authorities said an officer was shot in the head and a looter was wounded in a shootout. The officer was expected to survive.
Authorities planned to send more than 70 additional officers and an armed personnel carrier into the city.
In the meantime, city authorities were putting a higher priority on rescuing victims and repairing a levee breach that was spilling water into the streets.
"One of our fears is if we don't stop the breach, that we will put good people's lives in jeopardy," the governor said. "We are concerned about essentials. We are asking for more military presence in the city to control the situation better.
On New Orleans' Canal Street, dozens of looters ripped open the steel gates on clothing and jewelry stores and grabbed merchandise. In Biloxi, Miss., people picked through casino slot machines for coins and ransacked other businesses. In some cases, the looting was in full view of police and National Guardsmen.
The historic French Quarter appeared to have been spared the worst flooding, but its stores were getting the worst of human nature.
"The looting is out of control. The French Quarter has been attacked," Councilwoman Jackie Clarkson said. "We're using exhausted, scarce police to control looting when they should be used for search and rescue while we still have people on rooftops."
Sen. Mary Landrieu (news, bio, voting record)'s helicopter was taking off Tuesday for a flyover of the devastation and she watched as a group of people smashed a window at a gas-station convenience store and jumped in.
At a drug store in the French Quarter, people were running out with grocery baskets and coolers full of soft drinks, chips and diapers. Other looters were seen leaving a store with armfuls of tennis shoes and football jerseys.
this is getting sick.
shoot the tulips like the animals they are
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Originally posted by indy007
Grab the definate looters. Ones not getting simple survival materials, but necklaces, tv's, etc..
Chain-gang them and have them start filling & stacking sandbags.
2 birds, 1 stone.
great idea.. Can we still shoot them afterwards?
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Originally posted by lazs2
I do not believe that we have the right to "restore order" we do have the right to defend ourselves and our property tho.
Sadly... our right to "break out the Thompsons" has allready been infringed upon contrary to human rights and affirmed by the second amendment of our constitution.
lazs
Break out the Thompsons anyway. Might makes RIGHT:D
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you know with all the smaller businesses getting hit, i wouldnt be suprised if 1000's are left destitude, losing every personal asset they had, with no way of recovering.
with no collateral how do you get a loan to start another business? with no place to start that business either, what do you do?
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Thats a problem with current media. I've heard a few people calling into radio shows (yes white folks) saying that all types of people are looting, not just blacks.
Originally posted by AWMac
Welcome to America...
Give a reason, Someone of COLOR beat up by "White" Policemen,
or a Major Catastrophe... and Waaaalaa... Looters..All BLACK!!
There's yer People of COLOR! Where's Al Sharpton? Where's Jesse Jackson... yer Religious Men of Color? Farrakan?... Ohhhhh....But let it all be the "White" man looting... Then we'd hear the BLACK man speak out!
I'm just sooo frikken tired of this chit.
Oh BTW Jesse Jackson is in Venuzualia comforting Chavez because he needs it right now.
I'll call and toss the predjee card on the table right now...
Prove me wrong!
Love to All my Brothers and Sisters,
Mac
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Looters should be shot, no bones about it. Last time someone tried to break into my house he got a chest full of a 12gauge buck shot. In South Carolina they do NOT press charges on you for defending your property.
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Originally posted by Mustaine
you know with all the smaller businesses getting hit, i wouldnt be suprised if 1000's are left destitude, losing every personal asset they had, with no way of recovering.
with no collateral how do you get a loan to start another business? with no place to start that business either, what do you do?
Russian roulette. With a fully loaded gun.
Sad thing is. that statement isnt funny because it may very well be what some people end up resorting to.
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I'm glad y'all aren't in law enforcement. If somebody is breaking into your home, by all means, give them 8 warning shots in the back. I would.
OTOH, shooting somebody stealing a pair of shoes from the crippled remains of a footlocker that's written off as a total loss & will be reimbursed by corporate insurance? I dunno about all that. Seems excessive to me.
Get a judge, prosecutor, DA, riot squad, and a couple low draft boats. Round up "bad" looters, immediate trial & sentancing, and you could quickly fill up barges to staff my previously mentioned chain-gangs.
Now what I'm really concerned about is 30,000 refugees getting dumped in Houston. How many of these are going to have nothing better to do but go out and start committing crimes in my city? I'll be avoiding that side of town for the next 6 months.
The saddest part of all? Other than what could be a potential problem, Katrina has been very good to me. Excellent surf, pretty good weather, more than a few of us taking advantage of the $99 vacation Carnival is offering on ships they had to divert here, and I can't wait to get my hands on these flood cars when they hit the auction.
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This thread is just turned wrong on so many levels.