Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Chairboy on August 31, 2005, 09:31:55 AM
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Has anyone heard anything about a large number of deaths resulting from people being trapped in their attics during the flooding?
I'm wondering if this is just a rumor, or if this is going to be a developing story.
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You see evidence of a lot of people hacking their way out of atticts. I Imagine there are plenty who lacked a tool to help with that. I bet a lot of bodies will turn up. Even if you don't drown, the heat has to be intense.
Charon
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I wouldnt be surpised to see new bldgs codes requiring egress routes from an attic space if the stairs were blocked, on fire, or flooded.
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I had the same thought when I saw rescuers hacking into many a roof & pulling people out. I personally have no doubt there will be many fatalities in attics. All that footage sure makes my life problems seem soooo trivial. Really puts things into perspective for me.
A_Clown
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Yeah, they showed video last night of a crew hunting people in a boat, and there were people yelling at them from inside the attic spaces. They had to get close to the sounds and you could hear them yelling "Are you in the green house?" and then chopping through the vents and sometimes through the roof itself.
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what i don't get is why you would stay/die in the attic when you could swim out and climb up on the roof?
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Personally, I think I'd risk the toxic water and try to swim out. Going from roof to roof until I either found rescuers or got to the edge of the water.
Maybe they just cant swim?
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what i don't get is why you would stay/die in the attic when you could swim out and climb up on the roof?
Depends on what shape you're in, if you can swim or not, how well you can swim, how much light is in the flooded house, your ability to swim downwards 20 feet and navigate twists and turns... Might be a lot of people who start out and never make it through to a door or window. A young, good swimmer in good shape with no obstructions should have no problem. A 75 year old man 100 lbs overweight with poor swimming skills and poor lighting is dead. Add an infant to the equation.
They could have made it to the roof before it became too late perhaps (during that transition period before the last normal floor completely flooded), but that would depend on a lot of factors. You're in the top floor it is flooding, there is a current outside, at some point you would have to decide to stay or go. Go outside too early and be swept away or have to hang on to something or tread water. Wait too long, or go into the attic hoping it will drop in a few hours, and you're stuck.
Charon
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Originally posted by Eagler
what i don't get is why you would stay/die in the attic when you could swim out and climb up on the roof?
It could be many things. People in a bad situation tend to make bad decisions. In the middle of the night, with water flowing all around the house, it would be dangerous at best to try to swim for safety. And, of course, many people don't know how to swim.
I think a better question would be, "why didn't they follow the evac orders?" They were given every opportunity to get out, for several days. They chose to stay, and got themselves into a life-threatening situation. One of my colleagues here at work suggested that part of the problem might be the tv media. If Forrest Sawyer (or whoever) is standing on the beach during the approach of the storm, what kind of message is he giving to the locals? "I'm OK, it isn't really all that dangerous."
Just a thought. Anybody with a lick of sense left New Orleans or went to the Superdome.
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It's a tragedy of the first order.
Responsibility for those who have not survived rests soley in the hands of those that ignored the evac order. Not in the hands of the media.
It's all very sad, all very avoidable, all very tragic.
Next time the city, state and federal authorites say 'get out', possibly more folks will in fact get the hell out.
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I think what you guys are forgetting is not everybody has the means to get out. People with no vehicles, no family to depend on, people who cant walk, etc....how are they supposed to evacuate?
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if a person is mobile enuff to get into an attic crawlspace then I humbly sumbit that that person was most likely mobile enuff to get to a bus stop and get to the super bowl before the storm struck.
folks that were totally incapacitated should have asked for ambulatory assistance in getting to a hospital before the storm.
certainly there will be some who have no phone, no tv or radio and no way to react to the evacuation order.
and therin lies the tragedy.
new orleans is now populated by folks that said 'oh, bull, we'll be fine' types and 'oh, boy; we'll clean up on stuff as soon as the power goes out'. I hope the first group gets the hell to help and saftey before elements of the second group find them.
the last group is the muckraking media and the emergency services and medical folks.. i do hope the security folks expend their resources protecting the EMS and medical folks.. and put the media rats in close contact with the looters.
again.. this is a horrible situation; I'm not at all gloating. I'm also not at all surprised. The simple fact is the vast majority of folks now wandering the streets of that doomed city made a concious choice to be there... and now, folks that couldn't get out cannot be helped because the EMS folks are overwhelmed dealing with folks that could have gotten out and chose not too.
And that's costing lives... it's a waste, don't you think?
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there are few things i may disagree with hang.
first some of the further inward areas didn't completely flood until the levee's broke a day+ after the hurricane, and they were not necessarally considering that
next is the looters. some people had everything to lose, with no way of getting back on their feet. they may have stayed as long as possible to protect those assets.
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horsepucky. every single resident of new orleans was aware of the unique danger of living in a city surrounded by a levee surrounded by water 20' higher than they are.. with a catagory 5 storm boresighted on them. Just as every resident of a barrier island is aware of their unique danger with a hurricane inbound.
they made their choice.
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Originally posted by Hangtime
horsepucky. every single resident of new orleans was aware of the unique danger of living in a city surrounded by a levee surrounded by water 20' higher than they are.. with a catagory 5 storm boresighted on them. Just as every resident of a barrier island is aware of their unique danger with a hurricane inbound.
they made their choice.
well when the hurricane misses you and you have levis that have wroked for so long whats the risk? also most of them probably had no where to go.
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Originally posted by megadud
also most of them probably had no where to go.
(http://www.ticketcity.com/images/venue/louisiana_superdome.gif)
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it seems to be the very poor, unemployed types, and the elderly that were left in the city of NO
at least when it turns into a riot, it will be very hard to burn the wet buildings
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yea and alot of people did go there. so i will go back to my first point! when the weatherman says the storm is only going to miss you.
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Originally posted by Hangtime
if a person is mobile enuff to get into an attic crawlspace then I humbly sumbit that that person was most likely mobile enuff to get to a bus stop and get to the super bowl before the storm struck.
folks that were totally incapacitated should have asked for ambulatory assistance in getting to a hospital before the storm.
certainly there will be some who have no phone, no tv or radio and no way to react to the evacuation order.
and therin lies the tragedy.
new orleans is now populated by folks that said 'oh, bull, we'll be fine' types and 'oh, boy; we'll clean up on stuff as soon as the power goes out'. I hope the first group gets the hell to help and saftey before elements of the second group find them.
the last group is the muckraking media and the emergency services and medical folks.. i do hope the security folks expend their resources protecting the EMS and medical folks.. and put the media rats in close contact with the looters.
again.. this is a horrible situation; I'm not at all gloating. I'm also not at all surprised. The simple fact is the vast majority of folks now wandering the streets of that doomed city made a concious choice to be there... and now, folks that couldn't get out cannot be helped because the EMS folks are overwhelmed dealing with folks that could have gotten out and chose not too.
And that's costing lives... it's a waste, don't you think?
I agree....unfortunately there just didnt seem to be enough time and resources to force everyone to leave. Stuffing more people into the Super Dome isnt the answer.....look what happened to all of them. They are now being bussed to the Astrodome here in Houston. Maybe the answer would have been forced evacuations....going house to house and physically removing people from their homes. I saw one guy on the news the day before it hit saying that he didnt have a car or anyone to give him a ride out of the city so he was just going to hang out and get drunk with his friends and if it was their time to die at least they would do it while they were having fun. What do you do when folks take such a fatalistic view?
I grew up in south TX and we had our share of hurricanes when I was a kid. I lived in a freaking trailer house about a 1/4 mile from a small river and when the storms were predicted to come close we would pack up all the important stuff and head to higher ground which usually meant staying with my grandparents because they lived in a brick home farther away from the river. Hurricane Beulah in '69 was bad enough that my grandfather had to go out in a boat to feed the cows who were huddled on a hill in the middle of the pasture and tornados during Allen in '82 took out 2 houses within a 1/2 mile of our house but luckily we never had any extensive damage or flooding. I know enough to know that when they tell you its time to leave....you better leave. You would think that the folks in New Orleans would have learned this by now. Unfortunately some people never learn......
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Originally posted by Eagler
what i don't get is why you would stay/die in the attic when you could swim out and climb up on the roof?
The water rises, it floods into your home. The winds outside are well over 100mph, too strong for most people to stand up in, let alone try to save their family. The surface of the water is covered with so much debris it looks like a moving floor. You decide to go up to the attic instead of braving the unsurvivable conditions outside in the hopes that the water will stop rising. It doesn't. You can't survive the swim through the house, you try to break out of the roof. It either gives or it doesn't, you either get a few more minutes or you don't.
Hang, you are right to some degree, but I would guess that it's about 50/50. Many people said they tried to leave but couldn't get out(they started too late). Many people said they had no means to leave.
Either way, I wouldn't wish that experience on anyone.
Maybe the looters.