Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: DoctorYO on August 31, 2005, 04:04:42 PM
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http://www.editorandpublisher.com/eandp/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1001051313
"PHILADELPHIA Even though Hurricane Katrina has moved well north of the city, the waters may still keep rising in New Orleans late on Tuesday. That's because Lake Pontchartrain continues to pour through a two-block-long break in the main levee, near the city's 17th Street Canal. With much of the Crescent City some 10 feet below sea level, the rising tide may not stop until it's level with the massive lake.
New Orleans had long known it was highly vulnerable to flooding and a direct hit from a hurricane. In fact, the federal government has been working with state and local officials in the region since the late 1960s on major hurricane and flood relief efforts. When flooding from a massive rainstorm in May 1995 killed six people, Congress authorized the Southeast Louisiana Urban Flood Control Project, or SELA.
Over the next 10 years, the Army Corps of Engineers, tasked with carrying out SELA, spent $430 million on shoring up levees and building pumping stations, with $50 million in local aid. But at least $250 million in crucial projects remained, even as hurricane activity in the Atlantic Basin increased dramatically and the levees surrounding New Orleans continued to subside.
HURRICANE COVERAGE
Yet after 2003, the flow of federal dollars toward SELA dropped to a trickle. The Corps never tried to hide the fact that the spending pressures of the war in Iraq, as well as homeland security -- coming at the same time as federal tax cuts -- was the reason for the strain. At least nine articles in the Times-Picayune from 2004 and 2005 specifically cite the cost of Iraq as a reason for the lack of hurricane- and flood-control dollars."
READ THE FULL ARTICLE IT GETS BETTER...
google SELA if you want more info; plenty out there to substantiate the above..
In a nutshell: war monies took priority over levy reinforcement..
The current admin better have another faux.news Aruba because once the majors pick up on this there is going to be some political fallout (maybe even rioting by those who's lives have just been destroyed) anyway you look at it..
Note this dates back to last years IVAN (thats when i read the Picayune articles after the hurricane bonanza last year..) and well before that when congress passed this program..
DoctorYo
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I'm walkin' on sunshine!
Woah Woah!
I'm walkin' on sunshine!
Woah Woah!
I'm walkin' on sunshine!
Woah Woah!
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dang I knew the hurricane damage was Bushs fault
thanks for pointing that out yo
lol lol lol
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Eagler,
I had $20 on Raider179 a high 2 to 1 odds...then Doctor Yo, the dark horse, comes out of (hindsite) nowhere! I didn't even place or show! :lol :lol
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Now I hear on the news Cindy Sheehan is blaming Bush for the devistation too.
Problem is even had they gotten that money I doubt very much the outcome would have been any different.
Think about it. they were getting money and doing work for 10 years and it wasnt enough. "Yet after 2003, the flow of federal dollars toward SELA dropped to a trickle")Would the extra year and a half made that much of a difference?
I highly doubt it.
This is just a convienient way for those who wish to blame the administration for anything they can think of to do so.
And if it were another administration in there the situation. and the blame placing would be the same but from the other side
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Now that the "Poly card" has been played (and so soon, I expected at least a week before this would come), how long before the race card is played, that these people would have got faster, better help and assistance, had it not been for their color? I give it one week, Jesse will be first to say it. Speaking of which, where is Jesse? ;)
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Army trying to plug New Orleans’ broken defences (http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=dn7932)
Although bolstered by rock and concrete walls, the levees are essentially dams of compacted earth. They are not intended to withstand water flowing over them, so the Corps built them high - 6 m along the Mississippi river and about 4.5 m along Lake Pontchatrain, which is normally lower than the river. They were designed to weather a Category 3 hurricane, and in 1965 they survived Category 3 Hurricane Betsy.
Katrina was a Cat 4 when it came ashore near N.O.
Interesting article
Hurricane Risk to New Orleans (http://americanradioworks.publicradio.org/features/wetlands/hurricane_print.html) from Sept 2002.
"A couple of days ago," explains Maestri, "We actually had an exercise where we brought a fictitious Category Five Hurricane into the metropolitan area."
The map is covered with arrows and swirls in erasable marker. They show how the fictitious hurricane crossed Key West and then smacked into New Orleans.
When the computer models showed Maestri what would happen next, he wrote big letters on the map, all in capitals.
"KYAGB—kiss your bellybutton good bye," reads Maestri.
"Because," says Maestri, "anyone who was here when that storm came across was gone—it was body-bag time. We think 40,000 people could lose their lives in the metropolitan area."
They didn't miss what actually happened by very much in their exercise.
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You would hope that the magnitude of this tragedy would spur people in the future that when they say its time to get out.....they would get out. No more of the stupid, "bah...we can ride this out" crap.
My fiancee has an aunt and uncle who live in LaPlace, LA which is a just a little bit NW of New Orleans. We have been unable to reach them. We tried to contact them on Sunday before the storm hit and had no luck so we are assuming they had already evacuated. Problem is....we dont know where they evacuated to if they did because they didnt contact us and we are most likely their closest evacuation point here in Houston.
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Goth was talking about it and said that the program simulated a slow moving Cat 3.
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Yup I heard it with my own ears. Kennedy blames the Mississipi gov for the hurricane cause he was staunchly against kyoto treaty.....Sheehan said it was Bush and his environmental policies that caused the hurricane to hit. Imagine that ONE guy in 5 Years causes a Cat 5 hurricane.
In addition she said the releif effort would be much better cept all the guard troops are in Iraq. This woman is a magical eight ball and needs to be recruited to work for the super secret branch of the govt that predicts the future.....
It's a little too soon to be politicising the event but I think the left is teh winnnar!
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I heard (repeated from people that sourced news sources) that representatives of foreign countries are saying the same thing, implying or outright stating that America is to blame for the storm because of our failure to comply with or join treaties that they say reduce the greenhouse effect and fight global warming, which is apparently the cause of this storm, but not the other major hurricanes that have hit the US over the last century.
I expect it from that murdering bassturd from the NE, but I had hoped that it wasn't a position held by representatives of other countries in the position to state their countries standing.
as I said at first, I heard it from someone else, not sure if it's true.
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Holy crap, I made a joke about blaming boosh for this last weekend. The dethtoamreeka crowd never disappoints.
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Originally posted by Gunslinger
In addition she said the releif effort would be much better cept all the guard troops are in Iraq.
Nothing like making over exaggerated statements to criticize an administration you dont like. :rolleyes: There was some national guard leader on CNN the other day showing how many troops they had available in each of the affected states (LA,MS,AL). All three of them still had over 60% of their guard troops at home...not even on active duty yet. In fact he said that no state in the US had more than 50% of their available troops deployed so there are plenty of troops if they need them for whatever needs to be done in New Orleans.
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NO was a disaster waiting to happen. People have been talking about it for 30 years. I am not surprised it finally happened.
Pinning the problem on the fact that we ONLY spent a half billion $US to fend off what was a predictable disaster is crap.
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liberals are funny... 5 years ago cindy would have been a dumb, trailer trash Okie that lived in hicksville (right down the road from me) now...
she is the smartest woman in the world except maybe hillary...
lazs
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Where anywhere in my statement does it say bush... (the article describes Bush's mostly in reference to his budget 4 times hardly muck raking.. I bet next you will claim editor and publisher is some democrat mag / biased crapola..)
Valiant effort fellas..
Glad to be the dark horse RIP.. even though I didn't blame anyone just pointed out some facts..
See our budget in the USA gets submitted by the president then to congress for approval..
so in reality there is a whole gaggle with partial blame to lay..
I really love how you fellas just invent statements.. say you just took words out of context i'd could understand your actions but pure fabrication is getting a little old and busted .. please think up some new tactics..
thank you..
If you actually took the time to do some research you'll see im right.. just like when you people said I was nutz to think the tube shooting was pure incompetence (it was later proven as such) or Jessica Lynch false medal..(later proven im right again..) or WMD in Iraq.. (proven right..) or the sink whole that Iraq has been thruout history alexander, mongols, romans, now usa (i was right again.. check your current events..) time and time again you question what i have to say, time and time again i'm right and the peanut gallery is wrong.. the only thing you might cry foul was my disagreement with Lazs about some mechanics of m16a2 rifle which to this day i still stand by.. (how many rounds you fire thru a military a1 a2 Lazs? I rest my case..)
I'll bet some money and give 15-1 odds im right again on this one..
"there will be a nasty row over this once the smoke clears.." that is my statement.. not Bush's magical weather machine conspriacy.. shoulda coulda woulda on global warming etc.. what was described above was clearly preventable if you take the time to research.. google SELA and start reading.. not heresay or yapping..
Now place your bets.. my money is on me as always..
any takers.. (i remember when this war started I said re-up fellas.. to date only gunslinger has ponied up.. and he is a REMF.. so pony up Im still waiting.. vocal minority.. same chest thumpers still got no re-up papers but still yapping for conflict... )
thought not.. (but youll insert your yappy comeback..3-1 odds) (Cheeky chav* bastages... :p )
DoctorYo
* Chav - I like the ring of the that thanks HTC boards.. :lol
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Originally posted by Gunslinger
Yup I heard it with my own ears. Kennedy blames the Mississipi gov for the hurricane cause he was staunchly against kyoto treaty
Are you talking about a Kennedy in a position of responsibility or just someone with that last name?
shamus
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Originally posted by Shamus
Are you talking about a Kennedy in a position of responsibility or just someone with that last name?
shamus
JFK Jr. The one that's the staunch environmentalist. It doesn't matter if they are in a position of responsibility, the papers will print it, people will read it. The idiots out there will think it true.
But seriously, to blame somone for a hurricane during hurricane season.....:rolleyes:
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Yo. Might respond to that last one.
first I gotta decypher exactly what it is you were saying.
Short responce to near as I can figure out what you were trying to say is.
You didnt have to mention Bush by name. It was obvious that is what you were implying.
And even if it werent. We all know thatts the way its going to head.
And if Gore or Kerry were pres. it would be the other way around.
You dont really think anyone in congress is going to accept any part of the blame do you?
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Originally posted by Gunslinger
But seriously, to blame somone for a hurricane during hurricane season.....:rolleyes:
Seagoons fault!;)
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Originally posted by Gunslinger
JFK Jr. The one that's the staunch environmentalist.
He's the dead environmentalist.
But seriously, to blame somone for a hurricane during hurricane season.....:rolleyes: [/B]
That is ridiculous. I'm really surprised that anyone would have the gall to say that.
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Originally posted by DoctorYO
Where anywhere in my statement does it say bush... (the article describes Bush's mostly in reference to his budget 4 times hardly muck raking.. I bet next you will claim editor and publisher is some democrat mag / biased crapola..)
Well, you have a reputation, and the response you got was based on that.
The current admin better have another faux.news Aruba because once the majors pick up on this there is going to be some political fallout
I am very suprised that you weren't talking about Bush in that quote, but if you say so.....
If you actually took the time to do some research you'll see im right..
[/B]
I just researched your post....
When flooding from a massive rainstorm in May 1995 killed six people, Congress authorized the Southeast Louisiana Urban Flood Control Project, or SELA.
Over the next 10 years, the Army Corps of Engineers, tasked with carrying out SELA, spent $430 million on shoring up levees and building pumping stations, with $50 million in local aid.
Sounds like they have been hard at work for over 10 years, spending just under half a BILLION dollars on the project. The assumption that the federal government is responsible for damage from an earthquake is just as preposterous
I'll bet some money and give 15-1 odds im right again on this one..
"there will be a nasty row over this once the smoke clears.." that is my statement..
There might be, but it will be started by the same people that are blaming the formation of a hurricane on a political party. I'll bet ya a dollar. What's the timeframe?
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At first reading of Yo's response, I was like...wtf??? But then it dawned on me what was happening.... (http://www.netdisaster.com/go.php?mode=flood&url=http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=158967&referrerid=3203)[/b]
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I liked this one (http://www.netdisaster.com/go.php?mode=dog&url=http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=158967) more.
Not trying to imply anything, I didn't mention Bush or Yo or anyone.
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Originally posted by Gunslinger
But seriously, to blame somone for a hurricane during hurricane season..
Well, someone does. (http://service.spiegel.de/cache/international/0,1518,372425,00.html)
Apparently the Americans had it coming: "The American president has closed his eyes to the economic and human damage that natural catastrophes such as Katrina -- in other words, disasters caused by a lack of climate protection measures -- can visit on his country." Who wrote this? None other than Jürgen Trittin, Germany's minister of the environment.
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So....when you start your statement with " The current admin...." that doesnt refer to Bush?
Quick question...just who is the "current admin" in the world that you live in?
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Hurricanes have been occurring for a lot longer than the phrase "global warming" has been around. Sorry to burst the bubble of all the chicken littles out there, but America signing some environmental treaty aint gonna stop them from occurring.
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Originally posted by Lazerus
I just researched your post...
Sounds like they have been hard at work for over 10 years, spending just under half a BILLION dollars on the project.
You left out the other part of the quote:
But at least $250 million in crucial projects remained, even as hurricane activity in the Atlantic Basin increased dramatically and the levees surrounding New Orleans continued to subside.
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Actually it is Robert Kennedy Jr. that is making the claim.
Kennedy BS (http://news.yahoo.com/s/huffpost/20050829/cm_huffpost/006396)
Now we are all learning what it’s like to reap the whirlwind of fossil fuel dependence which Barbour and his cronies have encouraged. Our destructive addiction has given us a catastrophic war in the Middle East and--now--Katrina is giving our nation a glimpse of the climate chaos we are bequeathing our children.
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Apparently the Americans had it coming: "The American president has closed his eyes to the economic and human damage that natural catastrophes such as Katrina -- in other words, disasters caused by a lack of climate protection measures -- can visit on his country." Who wrote this? None other than Jürgen Trittin, Germany's minister of the environment.
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Hmmm....B17s used lots of gasoline on those trips to and from Germany. Maybe thats why he is pissed.
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Originally posted by Mighty1
Actually it is Robert Kennedy Jr. that is making the claim.
Kennedy BS (http://news.yahoo.com/s/huffpost/20050829/cm_huffpost/006396)
Thanks....My bad. I suppose it's not hard to mix up your kennedy's now a days.
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I really pity our president. He's had the most drama to deal with of any president I can think of off hand..and he's had the least to work with.
Daddy...where do idiots come from?
Public schools Timmy...public schools.
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The US signing the Kyoto agreement wouldn't have help. That is because it is a poorly constructed treaty that won't help the problem of global warming but hurt it. Let me be quite clear about this, I am in no way a supporter of the Kyoto Accord.
Just recently a climatologist released a report that analyized trends in hurricanes over the past few decades. Although he found that there are no more now than there has been in the past, he found that they have become much more powerful.
Some may say, "Well, the big was going to hit New Orleans eventually.".
This is true, but I have to wonder that if hurricanes have become more powerful because of global warming (which makes all the sense in the world to me because ocean temperature is directly related to hurricane strength) then the probablity of New Orleans getting hit by a Cat 3+ in a given time frame increases.
Bush didn't make it happen. But I believe global warming was a significant contributer.
Some people say that an economic penalty of trying to limit man's contribution to global warming isn't worth it. In hindsight what happened to the Gulf in the last two years due to hurricanes, the unprecidented drough in Australia the last few years, the flooding in Eastern Europe, the heat wave in Western Europe last year, the flooding in Manitoba this year, etc., etc. I ask these people to reconcider thier position.
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Originally posted by Thrawn
Bush didn't make it happen. But I believe global warming was a significant contributer.
But global warming has been around a hell of alot longer then bush has been president.
They've been talking about global warming nearly as far back as I can remember and Im gonna be 44 on the 19th.
Seems there have been a hell of alot of presidents and world leaders in that time period that could have done something but didnt.
To blame Bush. or his policies on this current is proposterous
As for shoring up the levies.
Half a billion dollars over 10 years and they couldnt get it done and someone is going to blame a reduction in funds over a year and a half span in the levie breaking?
I'd almost be willing to bet a nice sized chunk of those spent funds never saw the levies but lined peoples pockets instead and wouldnt be surprised if an investigation.( which you just know is going to be comming cause that what the government does whenever something happens) reveals this to be the case.
Funding also could have and should have been collected elsewhere. Casinos,oil companies and other big buisnesses down there should have all been required to kick in. After all it certainly would have been not only in the cities interests but also very much in their own best interests.
After all this type of thing has been being predicted for quite some time. Big buisness, or any buisness for that matter Kicking in funds should have been mandatory if you want to build.
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"But global warming has been around a hell of alot longer then bush has been president."
Not agruing that, or really even trying to assign blame.
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Good post thrawn. Glad to see you actually making sense for a change ;)
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""The American president has closed his eyes to the economic and human damage that natural catastrophes such as Katrina -- in other words, disasters caused by a lack of climate protection measures -- can visit on his country."
MMM now I wonder ?
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good thing the city spent money on the superdome instead of investing in the useless leves...
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The Mayor of New Orleans was just on CNN. He seems to think that theres a link between spending on Iraq and the total failure of federal govt to deal with this situation. And the way he said it would definately get him banned from this board!!!
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Originally posted by DoctorYO
Where anywhere in my statement does it say bush... (the article describes Bush's mostly in reference to his budget 4 times hardly muck raking.. I bet next you will claim editor and publisher is some democrat mag / biased crapola..)
Valiant effort fellas..
Glad to be the dark horse RIP.. even though I didn't blame anyone just pointed out some facts..
See our budget in the USA gets submitted by the president then to congress for approval..
so in reality there is a whole gaggle with partial blame to lay..
I really love how you fellas just invent statements.. say you just took words out of context i'd could understand your actions but pure fabrication is getting a little old and busted .. please think up some new tactics..
thank you..
If you actually took the time to do some research you'll see im right.. just like when you people said I was nutz to think the tube shooting was pure incompetence (it was later proven as such) or Jessica Lynch false medal..(later proven im right again..) or WMD in Iraq.. (proven right..) or the sink whole that Iraq has been thruout history alexander, mongols, romans, now usa (i was right again.. check your current events..) time and time again you question what i have to say, time and time again i'm right and the peanut gallery is wrong.. the only thing you might cry foul was my disagreement with Lazs about some mechanics of m16a2 rifle which to this day i still stand by.. (how many rounds you fire thru a military a1 a2 Lazs? I rest my case..)
I'll bet some money and give 15-1 odds im right again on this one..
"there will be a nasty row over this once the smoke clears.." that is my statement.. not Bush's magical weather machine conspriacy.. shoulda coulda woulda on global warming etc.. what was described above was clearly preventable if you take the time to research.. google SELA and start reading.. not heresay or yapping..
Now place your bets.. my money is on me as always..
any takers.. (i remember when this war started I said re-up fellas.. to date only gunslinger has ponied up.. and he is a REMF.. so pony up Im still waiting.. vocal minority.. same chest thumpers still got no re-up papers but still yapping for conflict... )
thought not.. (but youll insert your yappy comeback..3-1 odds) (Cheeky chav* bastages... :p )
DoctorYo
* Chav - I like the ring of the that thanks HTC boards.. :lol
As you step down off of your pedestal, realize that all the money in the world wouldn't not have changed the outcome. NO was designed in the 1800's and just modified, and overpopulated from the original design. The "L337" Pump system, failed, and the levees broke. Why? They were designed to control damage from a Category 3 Hurricane. Wait, this was a Category 4 Hurricane. Again, all of the money wouldn't have made a difference.
Karaya
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some of your beliefs woud be SNL material if you did not actually believe it yourself...
Bush cause the Tsunami last Xmas too right? no wonder the world hates the US.. we affect the weather now!
what a bunch of idiots... truly
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Originally posted by Skydancer
The Mayor of New Orleans was just on CNN. He seems to think that theres a link between spending on Iraq and the total failure of federal govt to deal with this situation. And the way he said it would definately get him banned from this board!!!
The mayor of NO is covering his butt. He did nothing prior to this disaster and now its everyones fault but his cities.
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Could be right there I guess.
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Originally posted by Krusher
The mayor of NO is covering his butt. He did nothing prior to this disaster and now its everyones fault but his cities.
Exactly - the percentage that they say living in poverty IN NO that couldnt afford to leave prior to any disaster, reflects and starts at the local level of government. On the other hand, the way the people trapped there are handling things is both honorable and pathetic. A Catch 22 for any relief efforts.
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well dr yo... I never said the tube shooting was competent or that lynch was a hero or any of that .... I did point out that you were wrong on the firearms issue...
sooo.... for anyone keeping score....so far.... as far as antything I have ever dissagreed with you on.... I am right and you are wrong. I don't really need to hitch my saddle to your star just yet.
lazs
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Originally posted by Eagler
dang I knew the hurricane damage was Bushs fault
no no, I blame clinton!
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Originally posted by Ripsnort
Now that the "Poly card" has been played (and so soon, I expected at least a week before this would come), how long before the race card is played, that these people would have got faster, better help and assistance, had it not been for their color? I give it one week, Jesse will be first to say it. Speaking of which, where is Jesse? ;)
not even a week...what a clown this guy is.. too bad many he speaks for are do not/can not see through him for what he truly is
Jackson Blasts Bush Over Katrina Aid (http://www.breitbart.com/news/2005/09/02/D8CCAOI81.html)
BATON ROUGE, La.
Racism is partly to blame for the deadly aftermath of Hurricane Katrina, the Rev. Jesse Jackson said, calling President Bush's response to the disaster "incompetent."