Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Wanker on December 13, 2000, 07:55:00 AM
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Go for it, Republicans. Get it all out of your systems.
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What's your opinion of the S.C. decision?
No gloating. Many on this board both Dem and Pub said a month ago whoever wins this election has a very long road ahead of them.
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My opinion? Well, I agree with the USSC decision, I just wish it would've been a 9-0 decision. Having it at 5-4 really says alot about the power of politics in the US.
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Who cares?!
I voted for Rosevelt.
Let's stick to important things, like WWII airplanes!
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
eskimo
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banana, I disagree, the 2 that didn't go with were the furthest left of liberal as you can get.(Speaking of the consititutional aspect in question that was a 7-2 vote)
BTW, sweet justice, Rowe vs Wade was also 7-2.
[This message has been edited by Ripsnort (edited 12-13-2000).]
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Well it was 7-2 on the constitutional issue but the solution is what caused the problem.
I would gloat I guess if I really thought Bush was going to be a great leader. I don't think he will do bad but I just don't think he will be great.
I also think the solution was not just geared for the people but also to give the FSC a chance to bow out gracefully.
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So, Rip, was the decision handed down 5-4, or 7-2? My sources say it was 5-4?
Edit: Ah, nevermind. I see that there were two decisions, one was 7-2, one was 5-4.
[This message has been edited by banana (edited 12-13-2000).]
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The decision that the Florida Supreme Court's decision had serious constitutional flaws and should be reversed, came down to a 7-2 vote.
It was the remedy (ie how do you fix it) that was the 5-4 vote.
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Vermillion
**MOL**, Men of Leisure
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7-2 said that the "every county set its own standards" judgement was a violation of the 14th ammendment in regards to equal and fair voting.
5-4 said there really wasn't enough time to do a complete recount based on a standard set of rules... including setting the standard set of rules.
I guarantee that the Florida house and senate will have something extra to do next year.
AKDejaVu
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BTW... Gore did win the popular vote. Not really any room for gloating.
AKDejaVu
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Edit: What Verm said. I had it backwards.
[This message has been edited by Ripsnort (edited 12-13-2000).]
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Still more politics than justice for me. I agree that a 9 - 0 would have been better for Bush and his mandate. No gloating as the work as just begun...
Eagler
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Originally posted by AKDejaVu:
BTW... Gore did win the popular vote. Not really any room for gloating.
AKDejaVu
Only because of the major population centers he carried.
Dinnae someone post a map of the US that showed who carried each and every county in the country? I remember seeing one, though not if it was here or on msnbc (and I can't find it there anymore), and 70% or so of it was counties for Bush.
::shrug::
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Originally posted by CavemanJ:
Only because of the major population centers he carried.
Dinnae someone post a map of the US that showed who carried each and every county in the country? I remember seeing one, though not if it was here or on msnbc (and I can't find it there anymore), and 70% or so of it was counties for Bush.
::shrug::
Which yet again proves that your votes counts only if you're in the right zip code...
come on guys... do the math comparison on "value" of votes from alalska and california. in terms of incluence on electorial college - person living in alaska has 4 times the power of a californian.
But, then again, those liberal hippies and illigal immigrants shouldn't be allowed to vote anyway... (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
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Bartlomiej Rajewski
aka. Wing Commander fd-ski
Northolt Wing
1st Polish Fighter Wing
303 (Polish) Squadron "Kosciuszko" RAF
308 (Polish) Squadron "City of Cracow" RAF
315 (Polish) Squadron "City of Deblin" RAF
Turning 109s and 190s into scrap metal since 1998
Northolt Wing Headquarters (http://www.raf303.org/northolt/)
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You Republicans do realize that this will make YOU the targets for the next four years?
As vehemently as Clinton/the liberals have been attacked or theyir decisions scuritnized/words taken out of context, just as bad will be the libs be.
What I'll do is find some good democrat websites and then do what rip did; every time there's a little thing, make a post (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif).
Heheheh someone has to keep the fire ging dammit! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif).
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StSanta
9./JG 54 "Grünherz"
(http://www.geocities.com/nirfurian/stSanta.jpg)
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Santa, like the fact that Clinton veto'd a bill this week that would have made it easier for Military personal to vote while stationed inside the U.S.? (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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I still don't see why they can't have it if you get the most votes in a state then you win that state and you get 1 vote. Add all the States vote and then you have a winner. If there is a tie then go by popular vote.
This way all states are equal and every vote DOES count. Not just in your state but in the overall tally.
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Originally posted by AKDejaVu:
BTW... Gore did win the popular vote. Not really any room for gloating.
One million absentee ballots in California were not counted, as the outcome would not change our electors since Gore had a 1.4 million vote advantage. However, if they split the way the rest of the absentee votes in the country did (2:1 for Bush), we would find the popular vote to be a literal and not just a statistical (3/10s of 1%, well within the margin of error) dead heat. Hypothetical? sure. But as some are prone to say about Florida, we will never know...
Count every vote?
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LuckyDay
"What're you going to do, bleed on me?"
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It's a known fact that 2-3 million votes across the country were not counted, and had similiar problems as Florida, but yet they were not counted either.
As one supreme court member said "We may never know who the winner of the election was, but we certainly know who the loser is."
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Being a member of the military, I think Bush will do more for me personally than Gore would have. Bush's view that we are soldiers not policeman was the most persuasive reason I supported him. Anything else he gets done for me is just gravy.
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LJK_Raubvogel
LuftJägerKorps (http://www.luftjagerkorps.com)
(http://www.luftjagerkorps.com/images/logo.gif)
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Rip, that's only half the story. Like why he did it.
BBut yes, *precisely like that*. Just bringing one side of the story and being heavily biased.
Man, this is gonna be fun. I ain't even a democrat (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif).
Hm, why limit myself to one side though? Well, mostly because you and Toad got the reps covered pretty damned well. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
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StSanta
9./JG 54 "Grünherz"
(http://www.geocities.com/nirfurian/stSanta.jpg)
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Santa, you and I both know why he did it. Correct me if I'm wrong, but a well known fact that 9 out of 10 ballots from military people voted republican across the board.
And yes, I admit, I've heard one side of the story. Was there a bill attached to it? (There usually is)
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You Republicans do realize that this will make YOU the targets for the next four years?
LOL Santa! Sometimes I think you have a good handle on American politics.. then there are times like this (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
EVERY president is under scrutiny for EVERY decision he makes... with the opposing party ALWAYS there to point it out.
According to what you have said here, nobody should really want to win because they'd only be criticized the whole time (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif) It would be kind of refreshing to see the candidates slinging mud at themselves.
Bush: "I wasn't drunk, I was totally toejamfaced"
Gore: "Yes, I did invent the internet... and unless you can prove otherwise please shut up"
hehehehe
AKDejaVu
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Of course, we could turn our attention to Danish political history... right?
nah... better not say whut I said...
[This message has been edited by Kieren (edited 12-13-2000).]
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I dunno, Kieren, the truth hurts sometimes. Put that sentence back in there.
Would that qualify as the Danish family trunk? (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
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I'll give these outlanders a bit more rope before I go for the tactical nuclear strike... (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
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Kieren, go right ahead (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif).
Danish politics are largely boring and our politicians normal people not elevated in terms of power or money above the rest.
You'll get bored fairly quickly I believe.
Dejavu: Well, that's going to happen, right? I am dead on no?
So, my grasp on US politics is very firm. In fact, it is so good that *I* should become the president.
Accepting blame is a small price to pay for access to nukes. Muahahah.
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
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StSanta
9./JG 54 "Grünherz"
(http://www.geocities.com/nirfurian/stSanta.jpg)
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Dejavu: Well, that's going to happen, right? I am dead on no?
Going to happen? No.
Was, is and always will be happening.. yes.
Basically... its as insightfull as "whomever is inaugerated is going to be president". Its true... its just not much of a revelation.
Nice try at a recovery though (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif) Stick to your boring Danish politics (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
AKDejaVu
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Awright...
I did a search for "incest" and "royalty"... guess whose little kingdom came up first on my browser? (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
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Kieren, our monarchy (which btw, I am very much against) have no political power. Nice try, but about 90 meters short of a 100 meter race (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif).
Dejavu, it might be obvious but it's worth pointing out. And with the way the reps have been on the board, they can expect the exact same treatment back.
When I face such a situation, I tend to go easy and be a nice person in order to avoid coming in a bad situation.
Muahahah. Hope I won't be bored with dem watchdog sites though, would be fun if I could keep it up. Four years worth of easy target. I've got my shotgun and I see a barrel full of fish.
HORRIDO! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
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StSanta
9./JG 54 "Grünherz"
(http://www.geocities.com/nirfurian/stSanta.jpg)
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Nope. The monarchy is the figurehead of your country. Anyone who would ridicule our political system needs to look in their own closets first.
There is a state called Kentucky near my home state of Indiana. It holds that horse racing is the "sport of kings". I guess we know the true "sport of kings", eh? (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
Seriously, if you are trying to judge an entire country based on the view you get of us through that little portal you call your television you are going to come up way short.
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Originally posted by Kieren:
Seriously, if you are trying to judge an entire country based on the view you get of us through that little portal you call your television you are going to come up way short.
Bingo! We have a winner! Spend more time in books than TV, then you get the 'documented' historical version of anything you pass judgement on.
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Originally posted by Mighty1:
I still don't see why they can't have it if you get the most votes in a state then you win that state and you get 1 vote. Add all the States vote and then you have a winner. If there is a tie then go by popular vote.
This way all states are equal and every vote DOES count. Not just in your state but in the overall tally.
That's pretty much how it works now, with the exception of the number of electoral votes a state carries.
What I'd like to see is the states start awarding thier electoral votes based on who won what district. Each state gets 1 electoral vote for each congressional district it has, plus 2 votes for the 2 senate seats right? Ok, give 1 vote to each candidate (or the top 2 candidates) right off the bat. Then award the rest by who carried the congressional district. IMO this would be pretty close to a popular vote for president, but maintaining the balance the electoral college provides.
--
This whole thing almost makes ya wonder what if the events in Executive Orders ever really happened (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
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BTW... Gore did win the popular vote. Not really any room for gloating.
Lets think about this.........
The more Natapoff looked into the nitty-gritty of real elections, the
more parallels he found with another American institution that stirs
up wild passions in the populace. The same logic that governs our
electoral system, he saw, also applies to many sports--which
Americans do, intuitively, understand. In baseball’s World Series, for
example, the team that scores the most runs overall is like a
candidate who gets the most votes. But to become champion, that
team must win the most games. In 1960, during a World Series as
nail-bitingly close as that year’s presidential battle between
Kennedy and Nixon, the New York Yankees, with the awesome
slugging combination of Mickey Mantle, Roger Maris, and Bill
"Moose" Skowron, scored more than twice as many total runs as the
Pittsburgh Pirates, 55 to 27. Yet the Yankees lost the series, four
games to three. Even Natapoff, who grew up in the shadow of
Yankee Stadium, conceded that Pittsburgh deserved to win.
"Nobody walked away saying it was unfair," he says.
Runs must be grouped in a way that wins games, just as popular
votes must be grouped in a way that wins states. The Yankees won
three blowouts (16-3, 10-0, 12-0), but they couldn’t come up with the
runs they needed in the other four games, which were close. "And
that’s exactly how Cleveland lost the series of 1888," Natapoff
continues. "Grover Cleveland. He lost the five largest states by a
close margin, though he carried Texas, which was a thinly populated
state then, by a large margin. So he scored more runs, but he lost
the five biggies." And that was fair, too. In sports, we accept that a
true champion should be more consistent than the 1960 Yankees. A
champion should be able to win at least some of the tough, close
contests by every means available--bunting, stealing, brilliant
pitching, dazzling plays in the field--and not just smack home runs
against second-best pitchers. A presidential candidate worthy of
office, by the same logic, should have broad appeal across the
whole nation, and not just play strongly on a single issue to isolated
blocs of voters.
"Experts, scholars, deep thinkers could make errors on electoral
reform," Natapoff decided, "but nine-year-olds could explain to a
Martian why the Yankees lost in 1960, and why it was right. And both
have the same underlying abstract principle."
For the rest of this fantastic article:
http://www.avagara.com/e_c/reference/00012001.htm (http://www.avagara.com/e_c/reference/00012001.htm)
[This message has been edited by Kats (edited 12-14-2000).]
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Kieren, the monarchy is far from that. Although technically Denmark is a constitutional monarchy, the reality is much different. Our queen has no power and goes around entertaining foreign guests and opens malls and stuff. And get paid huge money for it, really sad.
You gotta do better than that (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif). A technicality.
here's one for you.
At least my country has an official language and the dudes with the most votes get the most power.
Heheheheee (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif).
Oh, and I don't judge it by what I see on TV, thanyouverymuch. I have other sources of information. The interaction on this board is one of them, but one of the smaller ones (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif).
Americans assuming I get all my knowledge from tv. Just the way tv portray them.
<pokes Kieren with a stick and smiles>
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
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StSanta
9./JG 54 "Grünherz"
(http://www.geocities.com/nirfurian/stSanta.jpg)
[This message has been edited by StSanta (edited 12-14-2000).]
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Ah, St, my inbred Danish friend...
If you were crazy, would you know it? Is this reality the same reality the rest of the world knows? How do you know?
You know one of the dangers of inbreeding is mutation, mental incapacitation.... (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
*kicks St.Santa squarely in the groin*
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Cave my point is that every state should be worth the same. As it is now some states are more important than others.
To put it another way with the current standards my vote is less important than that of the people in Floriduh just because of the number of electoral votes they get to what Indiana gets. Fair? I think not.
Of course I can see why Demos don't want to change it cause if you look at how many states Bush won it wouldn't have even been close.
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There's nothing to gloat about...except maybe that the whole dang thing is finally over. That would be a truly non-partisan gloat though.
Anybody with more than sawdust for brains can see that it is now time to see what we can all do together.
Remember that both Gore and Bush addressed many of the same problems, albeit in different ways. The task now is get SOMETHING done; sitting around squeaking doesn't get the hay into the barn. Don't be afraid that something might not work; you don't know till you try. If it doesn't work, we learn and try again.