Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Shuckins on September 02, 2005, 09:15:22 PM
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Is no one down there grateful for the aid that's arriving....or is the media just focusing on those that are *****in' and moanin'?
Is saying that the mayor of the Big Easy is no Giuliani a fair statement?
New Orleans has been flooded, but many of the buildings have been left standing. In other communities, only the foundations of houses remain. Do those cities not deserve a similar focus by our media, or are they being neglected because their citizens have not been sufficiently "outraged" about their condition?
Is anyone else as sick as I am of the political posturing being aired so prominently in the media?
The relief efforts have been hampered by the sheer magnitude of the disaster....over two million people have been effected by Katrina...equivalent to the entire population of the state of Arkansas. New Orleans is one of the most isolated cities, geographically, in the nation, with only a few highways allowing access. Complaining Americans who are addicted to instant action and gratification should remember that.
To those involved in the rescue efforts, and those trapped there who have exhibited patience and quiet heroism while waiting for assistance, I say "God Bless Ya."
Everybody else should shut up and get out of the way.
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Everybody else should shut up and get out of the way.
'will you women just STFU and gimmie another belt of that ammo...'
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Originally posted by Shuckins
Is anyone else as sick as I am of the political posturing being aired so prominently in the media?
I'd suggest that you get used to it. The preparation and response to this disaster has everything to do with politics. You think it's bad now? Wait until this mess is wrapped up and the real question period begins.
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Originally posted by Nash
I'd suggest that you get used to it. The preparation and response to this disaster has everything to do with politics. You think it's bad now? Wait until this mess is wrapped up and the real question period begins.
Only because Bush bashing is in fashion...funny, I saw the same confusion in post-Andrew rescue and recovery yet the standing Pres during that time didn't seem to get much flak...but then you were too young to remember that.
Here's an interesting perspective from Post-Andrew recovery:
Rodney Hargroder presided over a successful recovery at Premier Bank in Baton Rouge, Louisiana. Hargroder learned, We had a basic assumption in our disaster recovery plan that staff would be available for recovery, but we had some no-shows at the Emergency Operations Center. At one point, we had one person staffing our data center.
For companies in south Florida, personnel problems were worse. Organizations could not communicate with or even locate many employees. Bell South's first priority after the disaster was finding employees and helping their families recover. By mobilizing corporate emergency resources, Bell South tried to meet the survival needs of its employees, providing food, supplies and crisis trauma counseling.
So the above sounds like PRIVATE SECTORS were the first to provide survival needs for its employees, with food, supplies, and counceling...interesting that no one said that it was the GOV"T's fault for not being there!
Of course Andrew was a walk in the park compared to this hurri due to the flooded conditions of every square inch of land.
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No Rip - Hurricane Andrew was met with the forces that Bush Sr. built. FEMA was by then a joke. '92.
Clinton called it as such. Vowed to rebuild it, and did. Turned it from the worst agency into what many called the best.
Bush JR. then gutted it.
And here we are.....
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Geeesh, why didn't they use these buses... :(
(http://photo.live.advance.net/nola/images/3684/2075052.jpg)
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nevermind
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Originally posted by Nash
No Rip - Hurricane Andrew was met with the forces that Bush Sr. built. FEMA was by then a joke. '92.
Clinton called it as such. Vowed to rebuild it, and did. Turned it from the worst agency into what many called the best.
Bush JR. then gutted it.
And here we are.....
When did you become a citizen?
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Tell ya'll one thing. I moved to Florida in 92, 2 weeks before Andrew. I went down a week before near Homestead to start working for my uncle in a construction company while I debated going back to college.
Andrew hit. It was by far the most devastating thing I had ever witnessed in my 20 yrs of life. Absolutely crazy. After the storm, the aid coming in took some time, but it got there, mostly due to the fact that the area was not flooded beyond reason.
Looting also happened. I sat at my friends house with a shot gun to discourage the "malcreants" from taking anything. Then an amazing thing happened. They shot and killed some looters. The looting pretty much ended after that.
Another amazing thing that happened, even though people were stranded, had no food, water, or medical supplies for days in some cases, they did not riot. You saw no one complaining regarding the food they received, the lack of response, or blaming the feds. You didn't see a mayor losing control of his behavior, nor did you see finger pointing.
You just saw people working together to help resolve a terrible situation. That's the key here. Work together, and get it done. Stop the finger pointing, that's the freaking bottom line.
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Originally posted by Bodhi
When did you become a citizen?
My mah is a citizen, my brah is a citizen, almost everyone in my family are USC grads, and prolly 70-80% of my family are citizens and I've lived in the US lotsa years and have been to every single state in the US for a non-insignificant period of time throughout my life and all it would take for me to be a citizen is to just ask.
US Politics/history are my sort of a side passion.
What's your point?
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Originally posted by Nash
My mah is a citizen, my brah is a citizen, almost everyone in my family are USC grads, and prolly 70-80% of my family are citizens and I've lived in the US lotsa years and have been to every single state in the US for a non-insignificant period of time throughout my life and all it would take for me to be a citizen is to just ask.
US Politics/history are my sort of a side passion.
What's your point?
He made his point.
Thanks Bodhi, you've made me realize something. Those punks down there didn't even wait 24hrs after the storm slammed the area to start looting.
I've been agonizing here tonight, dealing with a perceived failure. Fact of the matter is, these peeps knew the storm was coming.
I haven't grocery shopped in the 10 days because I've been dealing with this storm, and believe me, I don't make a buttload of money, but I am looking at my fridge and pantry and I have at least another weeks squeezing of food left there. I had sense of mind to freeze water in plastic containers, either to keep my freezer cool during power outage or to melt for emergency water.
I do feel sorry for the stranded, but the fact of the matter is a few bad apples has hampered recovery efforts.
I don't want to get into finger pointing, there's a lot we could have done better to help them. We're not blameless, but after Bodhi's post I realized I don't have to accept the blame for all of this crap either. Bodhi.
Oh, and in a way, Nash is right. I can't stand Clinton, but under him FEMA was better. This is, however, a totally different world because of 9/11, which changed FEMA tremendously.
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Originally posted by Goth
Oh, and in a way, Nash is right. I can't stand Clinton, but under him FEMA was better. This is, however, a totally different world because of 9/11, which changed FEMA tremendously.
I can't wait until the Estate Tax debate gets underway, when folks will relate it to 9/11.
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Nash,
My point is that you have become so blind to anything beyond your hatred for the Bush Administration that you stop at nothing to use anything to make an example of your interpretation of it's incompetence.
When this is all said and done, and they look back and see the mistakes made, everyone will see, that this disaster has been coming a long time, and the fact that the initial interpretations after the storm being so misconstrued have made it far worse.
As Goth pointed out, a "few" bad apples have caused more problems to a domestic rescue effort that have never been considered. Shooting at relief helicopters and rescue personnel??? Come on. You plan a rescue effort around that. Plan bringing in supplies for 75000 people through one or two avenues of approach. Then figure out where you are going to take them? Can't drop them all off at the local McDonalds now can you.
Tell ya what, I amde my point, quite well, you continue to make your's, which smacks of your political agenda everytime I read your posts regarding anything related to this country. Get off your dead horse, and be supportive instead of a malcontent.
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No.
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Originally posted by Nash
No.
figures... why truly worry about those suffering when instead you can post insults and trade barbs with supporters of the administration. Ya know the truly sad thing? You pride yourself on being so unique and a free thinker, but there are millions like you out there. Just as confused.
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I don't pride myself on nuthin'.
What a useless thing, and I aint even close to being all that.
Unlike what you said, I do however worry (it's more than worry, actually).
I'll spare this thread the brunt of it, but I am simply outraged. Red.
I could tell you about some of my experiences in Nawlins that are so uplifting, so... life affirming..... but it makes no difference.
You... and this thread... leave me with no desire to share it. So, screw it.
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I love NewOrleans. Proposed to my wife in Jackson Square.
Been to 6 Mardi Gras and numerous other trips to boot. My favorite place to stay is the Dauphin.
Anyways, lets not get into bards between each other. Serves no purpose and pray to God instead that those people get help.
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K amen.
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Originally posted by Nash
No Rip - Hurricane Andrew was met with the forces that Bush Sr. built. FEMA was by then a joke. '92.
Clinton called it as such. Vowed to rebuild it, and did. Turned it from the worst agency into what many called the best.
Bush JR. then gutted it.
And here we are.....
Source?
And, regarding preparation for any disaster, who would you say is more responsible in that preparation? The state of which the potential catastrophe could potentially hit or depend on the Government?
And, I stand corrected on my above post, Andrew WAS indeed politicized, see this thread:
http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=159154&referrerid=3203
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My brother is a canadian citizen and I don't go around using "we" when I talk about canada...
You ain't a "we" .... You aint an American nash. And I am sure I am not alone in saying that I am grateful that you can't vote like a real American can.
lazs
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Originally posted by lazs2
My brother is a canadian citizen and I don't go around using "we" when I talk about canada...
You ain't a "we" .... You aint an American nash. And I am sure I am not alone in saying that I am grateful that you can't vote like a real American can.
lazs
He's more like a "very-envious" Kanuck.
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Actualy its not about Bush Bashing per se. Whoever the President is is kind of irrelevant. What is relevant is that Federal and local govt seems to have made a real hash of things. If you guys choose to interpret that as Bush bashing so be it. For my part it doesn't matter who is in power, what matters is that those who are have not done a very good job so far.
The only people who have are those on the ground actualy trying to sort the mess without the resources and logistical support they should have.
We are not forgetting or denegrating their efforts. Merely pointing out that they are being failed as much as those they are trying to help. And that at some point someone will have to face up to that.
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Originally posted by Ripsnort
He's more like a "very-envious" Kanuck.
:rofl
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Originally posted by Skydancer
Actualy its not about Bush Bashing per se. Whoever the President is is kind of irrelevant. What is relevant is that Federal and local govt seems to have made a real hash of things.
Possibly, but I still think you dont understand the vast scope of this disaster. Try and imagine your entire country under water and how the UK goverment would react.
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With difficulty agreed. But if our neighbours just stood by or couldn't rush in support within five days I'd be asking questions of them.
Its not about locality its about humanity. The US is a huge place. Not that much of the whole nation was affected.
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Originally posted by Skydancer
With difficulty agreed. But if our neighbours just stood by or couldn't rush in support within five days I'd be asking questions of them.
Its not about locality its about humanity. The US is a huge place. Not that much of the whole nation was affected.
Remember it was two events a 150 year Hurricane and a 150 year flood. Two catastophic events in the space of two days and we are not talking average. Also we had Florida hit by the same hurricane two days prior, who do you think went to help those people?
Can you fly a chopper in 160 mile an hour winds? That's how bad it was on day One. Could you drive any truck in 6 to 15 feet of water? That's how bad it was on day Two. The water in some areas was higher and as of today most of it is still there. There are some routes you could take some trucks and busses, but it adds hours to the trip. By day 5 the relief was rolling in.
When you say the US is a large place your absolutely correct. How long does it take to fly a chopper in the UK from say Forss in the north to Carland Cross in the south? That's just the affected area, not the staging area. Say you had to cross the channel from France to a staging area in Scotland then fly the same north south route. How much time would that add to the process?
Ok add refueling, loading supplies, picking up stranded people and flying them to safety. Now say each chopper can hold supplies for 10 families and pick up 8 people. How many choppers would you need to rescue or feed 100,000 people, the numbers are higher than that, but 100k is a nice round number. Put a pencil to the numbers and you tell me how easy it should be.
I am sorry Sky, but with all due respect, you still have me convinced you don't have a handle on the scope of this disaster.
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Yes you may be right. I do see your point actualy.
Be interesting to see what the ramifications are. But whatever lets hold out hope for those far worse off who have lost everything. They are the ones who this is about to be sure. Not us here arguing on the BBs. We are the lucky ones.
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Originally posted by Skydancer
>Yes you may be right. I do see your point actualy.
Thank you....
>Be interesting to see what the ramifications are.
Trust me , the ramifications are going to be deep.
>But whatever lets hold out hope for those far worse off who have lost everything. They are the ones who this is about to be sure. Not us here arguing on the BBs. We are the lucky ones.
Amen to that (and I aint religious :) )
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Originally posted by lazs2
You ain't a "we" .... You aint an American nash. And I am sure I am not alone in saying that I am grateful that you can't vote like a real American can.
Even if we (the people) did have half the control over government that he and you believe...[/B]
so your point was?