Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Yeager on September 03, 2005, 09:44:00 AM
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"I'm going to keep this short, because it's all been said before and our words have no impact upon you. Therefore, I am going to talk in a language that you understand. Our words are dead until we give them life with our blood.
I'm sure by now the media has painted a suitable picture of me. Its predictable propaganda machine, naturally, will try to put a spin on things to suit the government and to scare the masses and to conform to their power and wealth-obsessed agendas.
I and thousands like me have forsaken everything for what we believe. Our driving motivation doesn't come from tangible commodities that this world has to offer. Our religion is Islam, obedience to the one true god, Allah, and follow in the footsteps of the final prophet and messenger, Mohammed.
Your democratically elected governments continuously perpetuate atrocities against my people all over the world and your support of them makes you directly responsible, just as I am directly responsible for protecting and avenging my Muslim brothers and sisters.
Until we feel secure, you will be our targets, and until you stop the bombing, gassing, imprisonment and torture of my people, we will not stop this fight. We are at war, and I am a soldier. Now, you too will taste the reality of this situation."
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Thoughts?
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I could respect his opinion and deeds more if he only attacked government instalations and soldiers.
lazs
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yeah but he has a salient point. In our society the civilian is in charge of the soldier by proxy. We elect our leaders and we are being held responsible. I am totally cool with that. I understand how this works. I just hope we can avoid a premature death as species.
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Nope....
Ok... then even so.....Let's leave the moral part out of it... His views make no sense.
Even if we (the people) did have half the control over government that he and you believe... he assumes that citizens dieing has any effect on the guys running the government... the government doesn't care how many citizens die so long as it doesn't effect them.
Do you think gun contrrol laws are pushed to stop harm from coming to citizens? A .50 caliber is banned because it will penetrate an armored limo or hi tech equipment... Does anyone you know drive around in an armored limo?
Citizens being killed will simply give government more power.... the weak and stupid will plead with the government to "do something" even if it means throwing out the bill of rights...
Nope... killing civilians does not help his cause. He should be killing officials and killing their toys. His friends and family being killed made him what he is.... what does he think he is creating when he kills ours?
lazs
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Originally posted by Yeager
yeah but he has a salient point. In our society the civilian is in charge of the soldier by proxy. We elect our leaders and we are being held responsible. I am totally cool with that. I understand how this works. I just hope we can avoid a premature death as species.
Its the path of least resistence. Its easy to gain access to the general public, therefore it is a chicken-chit cop out. Its also NOT effective except in the case of Spain.
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I agree with you to a point lazs. But I dont put nearly the seperation between the elected and the electors as you do. I vote and I take responsibility for the part I perform in shaping my city, county, state and federal governments. It dont always go my way either.......but I live by it and I guess....might die by it as well.
Also, these guys struggle with tactics and technology. They get their butts handed to em every time they try and attack the government or military (minus IEDs of course, very effective tactic there). They are killing womem and children because they are easy to kill and killing innocents has a powerful impact on our society (example: we might choose to elect more surrender prone liberals to stop the senseless killing).
Bottom line is one day these islamofacists will take it one step too far and get several hundred million people killed in a series of bright burning flashes, mostly mulsims Im afraid.
agreed rip
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He was a not very nice stupid person I think!
"His people?" I wonder do the Iraqis realy care about him or see him as one of "their people"? Or the Paslistinians. He was living a pretty good life courtesy of our little Island and he chose to go to war on the country that nutured him. Bit like biteing the hand that feeds you. He and anyone else who wants to go and fight for "their people":rolleyes: ought to do just that. Go there, hand over passport on the way out of the country to be torn up and never reinstated. Then he can go and be with "his people"
Bumhole!:mad:
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Translation.
He desires for countries training and promoting terrorsit groups to be left alone to gain power, strength, numbers and finances to a point to where they can attack around the globe at will. These pesky interuptions are really troubling to "His People".
Dream on sweet cheeks.
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Source?
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Jackal1 you need a new English / American dictionary. Your tranlation is well out mate.;)
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I say, "Bring it on!"
My team is gonna wipe the floor with your team.
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here is the source article:
http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/europe/09/02/london.tape.cia/index.html
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Originally posted by Skydancer
Jackal1 you need a new English / American dictionary. Your tranlation is well out mate.;)
Sure it is Skylilter.............if you have your head buried in the sand while your fingers are in your ears.............or some other location. :)
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yeager... I can't think of any government on this planet that wouldn't secretly welcome 'terrorist" attacks so long as they only targeted citizens. The attacks only strengthen governments power and control.
It would be dead simple for the "terrorists" to attack any nations police forces. Walk into a police station wearing explosives.... shoot police cars or politicians cars with sniper rifles... crash a priovate plane or truck full of explosives into any lightly defended state capitol during it's law making payoff sessions.... etc etc.
Turn in someone for drugs or terrorism or firearms violations and then when the ninjas get there... blow the place sky high and snipe at the survivors....
Blowing up civilians is just lazy and stupid.... the only reason they do it is because they can't get any bright or skilled people to go for the 75 virgins in paradise line.
lazs
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Gosh you are rude! aren't you Jackal1? :lol :lol :lol
Lazs are you realy advocating terrorists killing police officers etc. Sounds dangerously like it!
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Originally posted by Thrawn
Source?
(http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/images/smilies/google.gif)
http://www.4ni.co.uk/nationalnews.asp?id=43850
http://www.abc.net.au/am/content/2005/s1451496.htm
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Originally posted by Skydancer
Gosh you are rude! aren't you Jackal1?
Nothing rude about it Lilter. If you desire to stick your fingers in your ears and bury your head to reality and ignore the obvious because it scares the watermelon out of ya.......so be it.
Some people can see clearly and don`t wait for more and more to die without intervention.
Your country was attacked, your people died just like ours. You are infuriated on one hand, but prefer to take assanine statments made by the enemy as truthfull and at face value because it is the easiest road.
Mental imcompetency doesn`t amaze me as much as the totaly naive.
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Armies & all have been killing civilians since humans have been able to use their hands and also US government, amongst others, have been merrily killing hundreds of thousands civilians.
That's just how the war works.
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Originally posted by Staga
US government, amongst others, have been merrily killing hundreds of thousands civilians.
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Not to mention the fact that the U.S. has been feeding, financing, supplying goods, aid, education and help in any possible form to many, many countries while it has protected, bailed out and fought the enemies of the squeamish and timid while they battled with indecision.
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"Your country was attacked, your people died just like ours. You are infuriated on one hand, but prefer to take assanine statments made by the enemy as truthfull and at face value because it is the easiest road."
How on earth do you deduce that about me Jackal1?:confused:
If you are ttalking about my views on Iraq, then realise that until the damn stupid war there there was no real terrorist activity in Iraq! certainly not one that threatened your nation or mine.
Afghanistan is another matter. The war there was quite justified in terms of defeating terrorism. I back that one all the way.
Iraq was and is a major mistake. We have made terrorism worse with thart one. But hey you'll not agree and no doubt question my intelligence, sexuality, whatever so I'm flogging a dead horse there.
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Originally posted by Skydancer
"Your country was attacked, your people died just like ours. You are infuriated on one hand, but prefer to take assanine statments made by the enemy as truthfull and at face value because it is the easiest road."
How on earth do you deduce that about me Jackal1?:confused:
If you are ttalking about my views on Iraq, then realise that until the damn stupid war there there was no real terrorist activity in Iraq! certainly not one that threatened your nation or mine.
You answered your own question and put it in text.
No real terrorists in Iraq? How total naive. You buy into the bill of goods from your very own enemy by buying the statements that they would have been no attack on your country or mine if we would only stay out of the ME, Let me just say ,,,,BS.
Terrorist training, financing ,backing and mass amounts of planning have been going on in Iraq and other places for way, way before we ever was there.
We are their sworn enemy and have been for ages. They have just recently achieved the goal of reaching the point of being large enough and supported enough to start sizeable and meaningfull attacks around the globe.
If you buy into what BS they are saying as truthfull and take it at face value, ignoring reality then you are in fact playing right into their hands.
Get a friggen grip.
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Originally posted by Skydancer
"Your country was attacked, your people died just like ours. You are infuriated on one hand, but prefer to take assanine statments made by the enemy as truthfull and at face value because it is the easiest road."
How on earth do you deduce that about me Jackal1?:confused:
Iraq was and is a major mistake. We have made terrorism worse with thart one.
:rofl Amazing. You are a terrorist oranizations dream child.
We have made terrorism worse? Sure we have...........by disrupting training , financial backing, harboring and free reign to gain strength to attack at will.
Wanna buy a bridge? :)
I have one for sale located in the Tigres.
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Plain propaganda nonsense. Pumped out by our two govts to support a major millitary and political blunder to cover their own rears when it all goes wrong like it is now! I haven't got time now to give a history lesson but look back a few years into history when you get the chance to see just how Mr Hussain for all his cruelty and unpleasentness kept Islamic fundamentalism at bay and how your nation and mine helped him to do that!!!.
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Killing civilians might work. He wants everyday people to hate Muslims and point their fury at the perceived enemy within. Then, when the moderate Muslim is under attack in Britain and extremism gains the support they will have lots of new recruits.
They want total war. Only total war will see them gain majority support in their own communities. Only total war will make the moderate Muslim a minority within Islam.
I can only shake my head at the stupidity of those who espouse the macho, gung-ho "They want a war, we'll give 'em a war" bollocks.
You're singing their tune, but in a different key.
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a most sincere post, you are a rare breed in these parts chuck.
the source of islamic intolerance is saudi arabia.
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So...now what? Shall we try appeasement again?
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Originally posted by Skydancer
I haven't got time now to give a history lesson
Well that`s a relief. Coming from someone who is totaly unaware and ignores current affairs, a history lesson would be over the top and exceeding mental capacity. It`s hard to teach with your head in the sand, shivering and crying "make it go away".
Two of the training camps, as I mentioned and linked in another thread, were built on or near `88. That`s just two. They are many , many more.
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dowding is actually right on this as far as he goes.... he has no solution of course because there is no solution much better than what is being done and he hates that.
the only way to prevent such an outcome is for muslims to denounce the crazies and help with the fight against them.... There is no real alternative... if they condone through inaction then dowdings predictions become rule.. people see all muslims as the bad guy or... at least a potential one.
it is not possible to simply let them alone or to give them what they want... as jakal pointed out.... leave em alone and they simply work harder and more effectively on murder since they can't possibly get what they want.... What they want is radical and not shared by enough muslims to be a possible movement.
lazs
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total war in the 21st century would last about 45 minutes. Hour and a half tops.
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True.
It`s really a pretty simple concept.
On a smaller scale it can be compared to a group of schoolyard bullies.
You sit back and do nothing, let them grow and gain strength so you get beaten up at every opportunity while you try to pretend it isn`t happening............Or you can pull your pants up, take some weight gainer and punch the biggest , baddest mutha of the bunch in the nose until the BS stops.............or you can simply continue being sniveling, whining, crying wimp and take what is dished out at will.
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Yep you are actualy right. Trouble is we punched the wrong guy!
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skyprancer... so far as example goes... they are all interchangeable... the right or wrong guy has nothing to do with anything except what you have the most to gain from... you need the toehold one way or the other.
lazs
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Originally posted by Skydancer
Yep you are actualy right. Trouble is we punched the wrong guy!
No we are getting the right ones allright.
If it were left up to you, we would be afraid to even enter the schoolyard because they would have told you this all started when you were blocking the vending machines.................and you would have beleived that , or at least pretended you did to save face. :)
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Like all terrorists it's the arrogance that comes through. I could go through it line by line dissecting his statement but I can't be bothered.
His cause, good, bad or indifferent justifies him killing any number of ordinary harmless people and maiming hundreds of others. That is the mark of a terrorist. They lose all sense of human deceny and simply see people as lesser beings and legitimate targets.
Their self righteous victimhood justifies any act, any atrocity. They have distorted their own religion to justify an act specifically forbidden in the Koran.
All terrorists suffer from the same delusions in one form or the other, no matter what the cause. In truth all terrorists are people who have failed in their lives in some way, mostly in their own mind. They replace the emptiness in their lives with the 'cause'. Now they are somebody, even if they commit suicide doing so.
As he made that video that man felt superior to the rest of us. When he pressed the button on that bomb no doubt he felt a sense of achievement. In truth all he achieved was death and destruction. There is no victory in death. He was a loser.
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OSB made a statement that pretty well summed it up.
He stated something to the effect that the people of the west embraced life and abhored death and that his people embraced death.
Trying to understand and rationalize a culture by our standards and outlooks is a bad, bad mistake. It can`t be done. We are the sworn enemy, cut and dried. No in between. No negociating.
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Originally posted by Yeager
yeah but he has a salient point. In our society the civilian is in charge of the soldier by proxy. We elect our leaders and we are being held responsible. I am totally cool with that. I understand how this works. I just hope we can avoid a premature death as species.
So then, by his logic, any civilians we kill over in the Middle
East are legitimate targets? Sounds weak to me, the vast
majority of the population has no practical control over the
military.
I think they are just rationalizing the fact that they prefer
soft targets that cannot retaliate.
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Originally posted by Yeager
here is the source article:
http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/europe/09/02/london.tape.cia/index.html
Thanks Yeager.
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Thrawn, n/p.
Rino,
Lets make the distinction between an islamic state, where the koran is the law of the land and the religious elders are the leaders - versus a western style democracy, free from religious interference in the affairs of state, where the people vote for their representatives to run the affairs of government, including a subserviant military.
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Its the "one true god" bit that irks me. Wtf is he to think his god is the only god. Its just well tanned rednecks with bomb laden backpacks.
No i dont pity them. If it were up to me, and Im sure you are glad it isnt, Id take all the oil, and enslave or exterminate the lot of them. No hard feelings, its what my one true god wanted. See how silly it is?
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Originally posted by lazs2
I could respect his opinion and deeds more if he only attacked government instalations and soldiers.
lazs
Welcome to the era of asymetric warfare.
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His people? LOL. Analogous story: (Skuzzy, will do my best not to offend too many people with it).
I worked in the defense industry for quite awhile as a writer. I worked a lot with translators (English-French). One of them was a died in the wool "seperatist" (as in Quebec leaving Canada). He couldn't say enough good about the FLQ bombers in Quebec (early 70's). Quebecers, "his people" in his mind, were the unrecognized oppressed in the world - he hated us maudit anglais. BTW, he's from SE Saskatchewan.
So he goes to Montreal for a vacation one summer. He comes back seething. The Montreal seperatists he hooked up with treated him like pond-scum. Not because he was a seperatist but because he was:
a) from out of province and therefore a "foreigner";
b) not of the "habitant" class (his family didn't emigrate from France before the mid-18th century; and,
c) his family came from Haiti not France.
The really funny part was for several years before his trip to Montreal he was "tithing" his salary to seperatist organizations in Quebec. His people - yup :rofl
The Soviets called these kinds of people "useful idiots". Quebec seperatists call them "pepsi" (empty from the neck up). I wonder what AQ calls them?
asw
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i knew a nutjob like that. He stepped off a curb and got hit by a bus.
there was some discusson about being pushed, but in the end, the consensus was 'darwin'.
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Well at least he 's not around anymore. Shame about the others!
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Lets Roll
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No Lets Rock instead! ;)
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Originally posted by AWMac
Lets Roll
Exactly! :aok
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Originally posted by detch01
....Quebec seperatists call them "pepsi" (empty from the neck up). I wonder what AQ calls them?
asw
Martyrs.
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Originally posted by Yeager
"blah, blah, blah."
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Thoughts?
he is a cheekbones of the 1st order
a cockroach which needs to be exterminated
and this cockroach is dead, the way the rest will be unless they figure out you can't cry for peace while blowing up planes, trains & buses filled with women and children
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sandie... not sure what you mean.
lazs
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We possess the most powerful army in the world, Lazs. No one is going to go at us head to head and toe to toe.
They're going to hit the softer targets... our people.
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perhaps... that is the easiest way... but.. I submit that our politicians and federal and local police are soft targets themselves... For instance.... how tough is an ATF thug or two when they don't have thirty guys and armored vehicles and gunships? They are vulnerable going to and at the office. I gave examples of how they could do it.
Our government (or us) will never buckle under to terrorism so long as only us citizens are being killed. I am not so sure about it's resolve if they are the targets tho.
lazs
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Hmmm... don't forget the Pentagon. It's already been attacked.
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yep.... and that was a very hard target...
turn in a house for drugs or.... horror of horrors.... not paying the $200 tax on a silencer or sawed of shotgun and you will have 30 ninjas with silenced full autos swooping down on the place waco style...
simply fill the place with fuel fertilizer (what's that smell sargent dickwad?) and touch it off when they swarm in...
And thats a relatively hard target.... state legeslators in session and a bomb filled cessna. tamper with the unguarded HVAC... I'm just working off the top of my head here but the point is that when you get em out of their armored vehicles they are all pretty soft targets.
I could see their point a lot more if that is what they were doing. Anything else simply rolls right off the backs of our rulers and hardens the resolve of our citizens (most of us anyway)..
Blow a suitcase nuke in a major city and I will want to get even not give in. Didn't 9/11 teach em anything?
lazs
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Well... compared to a typical military base, the Pentagon is pretty soft. It's in the middle of a metropolitan area. There's a civilian subway going underneath (that's open to ANYONE). Sure, it's difficult to get inside, but it's not difficult to get close to.
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VW is working on new autos for terorists !
http://[B][URL=http://phil.yanov.com/images/vwtough.wmv]
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I actually never said a military base... it is silly to attack military bases... again... that hardens the resolve of citizens. Most of us know or have relatives in the service... the service is not the police and the soldiers are not normally career police confronting citizens.
lazs
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Speaking of hard and soft targets........ I was in a Federal building this week for a couple of hours and I was amazed. The first thing that caught my attention was the plaza drive leading into the main entrance on the ground floor. It was wide open, straight through to an entrance with a 50 yard or so long glass and metal front. There was absolutely no external security. I stood outside while having a smoke and watched as dozens entered, most with some kind of case or bag ranging from hard brief cases to the new soft bags. There was no security inside the first floor, none.
On an upper floor there was one security guard with a post and desk near the elevators. While I was there I watched as he left his desk/post numerous times and watched people getting off the elevators and entering, at will, what was supposed to be a secure area while he was goofing off elsewhere. I even did it myself just for the hell of it. :) "Barney Fife" would return with a cell phone glued to his ear, talking to his buds, cussing like a sailor loud enough for everyone to hear while he paid absolutely no attention to what was going on around him on that floor.
I guess I shouldn`t have been surprised, but it amazed me under the current circumstances and with the recent record we have for Fed buildings that security was not only lax, but to the point of nonexistent.
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Base... installation... facility...
No need to worry about the semantics and I seemed to have pushed the discussion that way. I'll stop.
I agree... compared to a typical government or civilian building, the Pentagon is pretty hard.
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base... instalation.... facility...
world of difference possible in those words. I can't respond if I don't know what you are trying to say or... if you don't.
lazs
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Originally posted by Jackal1
:rofl Amazing. You are a terrorist oranizations dream child.
We have made terrorism worse? Sure we have...........by disrupting training , financial backing, harboring and free reign to gain strength to attack at will.
Wanna buy a bridge? :)
I have one for sale located in the Tigres.
Terrorists have killed more people since the invasion of Iraq then all the years before in modern history. When Iraq recovers from its civil war and splits into at least three nations, all probably supporting terrorists ... I'll remind you of your idiotic comments.
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Originally posted by FalconSix
Terrorists have killed more people since the invasion of Iraq then all the years before in modern history. When Iraq recovers from its civil war and splits into at least three nations, all probably supporting terrorists ... I'll remind you of your idiotic comments.
So, am I to take it you are on the bus with Skylilter to the "give peace a chance rally" and also beleive that terrorists would not attack around the world at will if left to train, oraganize and get finacial backing uninterupted or disturbed?
Incense and peppermints.................. .:)
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So urm I take it you didn't read anything about the history of Islamic terrorism that I posted in the other thread?
Oh no I see you just read the crime story and totally ignored the bit about the history.
So we can expect more comments about how Saddam trained all the Islamic terrorists and we are doing a great job in the war on terror getting our boys killed for that mess up of foreign policy, from you then? :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
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Nah, I suspect he'd rather we address the root problems.. poverty, education and social reform.
That'll work. Look how well it served the denizens of New Orleans...
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See Rule #4
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It was the right thing to do if you wanted to stop a madman from torturing and murdering his people..
If you simply wanted to get a toehold in a region that is sitting on most of the oil and is a complete mess then.... if was either the best or the worse... only time will tell... we need to bring representitive democracy to the region.... one way or the other... face em now or face em latter.
latter means they have more ability to hurt us. We need to topple some muslim run tyranny's... Iraq is as good as any... better than most... just big enough to make a difference and evil enough to be able to justify...
and really... that's about all there is to it.
lazs
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See Rule #4
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See Rule #5
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May as well delete the would ;)
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See Rule #5
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The "would" was just a gesture of courtesy. ;)
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We hit the wrong guy and made terrorism a whole lot worse.
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what makes you so sure?
I see terrorism as the same either way. These idiotic god freak muslim fanatics dont give a rats tail what you or I think.
I would have preferred a nuclear weapons attack against Iran, Syria, Iraq, Afganistan and Pakistan in the early afternoon of 9/11/2001 but thats just me.
I wonder if Cheney considered it. Too bad it didnt go down like that.
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See Rule #4
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If the US Coast Guard was there, they've airlifted all them terrorists to the nearest flaming volcano.
US Coast Guard rocks!!!
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Originally posted by Skydancer
You seem to think I advocate doing nothing. Not actualy the case.
No, actualy I have seen your course of action put forth way too many times in here. Sticking your head in the sand is not what I would call a course of action.
We should have gone after the terrorists more intelligently than blundering into a nation blowing it to pieces and expecting them to thank us and all be good little democrats whilst their country was ruined completely
Hello, is this thing on? Earth calling spaceship X.
The country was ruined a long, long time before the Iraqi war started.
I agree we should have went after the terrorists more intelligently. We should have nailed their butts to the wall a long time before now instead of being held back by the naive.
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See Rule #5
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Originally posted by Jackal1
Terrorist training, financing ,backing and mass amounts of planning have been going on in Iraq and other places for way, way before we ever was there.
If you believe that, you haven't read much . It's been clearly documented there was no terrorism activity or training at Iraq. On the contrary, actually. For example Al-Qaida was a religious and political enemy of Iraq / Saddam. They loathed each other. These famous terrorist organizations did not have any foothold at Iraq and no connections to Iraq government. They started arriving only after the invasion, and are now using the country as a training camp, as well as huge recruiting tool. The ongoing war at Iraq is only strenghtening terrorists worldwide right now.
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See Rule #4
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See Rule #4/#5/#6
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