Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: bj229r on September 04, 2005, 10:52:21 AM
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Doesnt N.O. HAVE buses?
(http://[URL=http://img317.imageshack.us/my.php?image=busyard28tm.jpg][IMG]http://img317.imageshack.us/img317/3296/busyard28tm.th.jpg)[/URL][/IMG]
Yup, it Bush's fault that all these buses are under water...hmm...mebe 50 adults per bus...mebbe 500+ buses (this isnt all of them)...wouldnt have been too hard to get those 100-200k people outta there..at least to high ground, so they wouldnt have to send choppers and boats over hundreds/thousands of square miles
(Oops, here is the link...my web abilities are minimal, as you can see)
http://littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/?entry=17362
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Louisiana disaster plan, pg 13, para 5 , dated 01/00
'The primary means of hurricane evacuation will be personal vehicles. School and municipal buses, government-owned vehicles and vehicles provided by volunteer agencies may be used to provide transportation for individuals who lack transportation and require assistance in evacuating'
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Definitely a good point. There are about 300 busses down there which could have been used to get at least 12,000 people out of New Orleans. Not sure where they would have all gone...but distributed among shelters throughout northern Louisiana would have been better than the Superdome.
I think the issue that most folks are having is with the response afterwards. The locals screwed up...they did not have an adiquate evacuation plan for something of this magnitude and they should have had one. But should the attitude be, "you made your bed, now die in it!" Or should the Feds have moved in with relief supplies immediately? Delivered by a helo airlift if necessary in an effort not unlike the Berlin airlift. Should those supplies have been pre-staged? Should the Navy response have been mobilized days before the storm made landfall rather than days afterwards (we all knew that a Cat 4-5 storm was going to hit somewhere in the Gulf, why not cut the response time by getting Hope and Comfort moving in the days before)?
There is plenty of blame to go around and all should be held accountable.
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I can't beleive this. I guess rats really do abandon a sinking ship...
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/09/04/national/nationalspecial/04police.html?ei=5090&en=8bf8550c348bbc33&ex=1283486400&partner=rssuserland&emc=rss&pagewanted=print (http://www.nytimes.com/2005/09/04/national/nationalspecial/04police.html?ei=5090&en=8bf8550c348bbc33&ex=1283486400&partner=rssuserland&emc=rss&pagewanted=print)
http://www.armytimes.com/story.php?f=1-292925-1077495.php (http://www.armytimes.com/story.php?f=1-292925-1077495.php)
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Originally posted by crowMAW
Definitely a good point. There are about 300 busses down there which could have been used to get at least 12,000 people out of New Orleans. Not sure where they would have all gone...but distributed among shelters throughout northern Louisiana would have been better than the Superdome.
I think the issue that most folks are having is with the response afterwards. The locals screwed up...they did not have an adiquate evacuation plan for something of this magnitude and they should have had one. But should the attitude be, "you made your bed, now die in it!" Or should the Feds have moved in with relief supplies immediately? Delivered by a helo airlift if necessary in an effort not unlike the Berlin airlift. Should those supplies have been pre-staged? Should the Navy response have been mobilized days before the storm made landfall rather than days afterwards (we all knew that a Cat 4-5 storm was going to hit somewhere in the Gulf, why not cut the response time by getting Hope and Comfort moving in the days before)?
There is plenty of blame to go around and all should be held accountable.
I just watched Gen Honor on Fox in a GREAT interview. He does a great job of explaining the situation from FEMAs stand point.
1. There was only ONE major interstate road leading to NO and it was flooded halfway through the city.
2. Supplies could not be pre-positioned in mississippi because MS took a direct hit and they would have (and were in some cases) been whiped out.
3. This wasn't ONE disaster but two, the hurricane and the flooding
4. NO was supposed to take the direct hit but the storm shifted and headed toward MS.
I'm looking for the transcripts cause the guy made sense.
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If it were election day all those busses would have been filled with poor people
I love this quote
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all the democrats want Bush impeached over this (naturally), but when the water is finally pumped out and everyone gets a chance to discover the evidence Im betting the moon the mayor of new orlins gets his freshly severed head handed to him on a platter.
That guy is black too and he totally screwed up leaving all his fellow black people, and alot of whites too, to get flooded and suffer tremendously. He knows it too. He is a goner.
Another big lesson here, if your not stashing food and water and dont have some defenses for an emergency, and you expect the feds to save you......you have a terribly flawed expectation.
The feds will get there, a week later....Bush or Gore, dont matter.
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W. J. Riley, the assistant superintendent of police, said there were about 1,200 officers on duty on Saturday. He said the department was not sure how many officers had decided to abandon their posts and how many simply could not get to work.
Been saying it for 30 years.. have seen this before. Watched it happen in other countries in times of unrest, seen it here in times of civil disorder. Cops are human. There comes a time when there's a decison to be made.. "Should I be protecting them (the folks looting, shooting, pillaging, raping) or protecting my own family?"
The Police force is NOT the military. When a cop is faced with no food, no transportation, no communication, no place to secure detainees, no recourse with the populace.. he's human. He hired on to 'protect and serve', not 'patrol and die'.
THIS is why the the intelligent citizen gets himself a gun. There is absolutely no guarantee that the cop on the corner is on YOUR side when the **** hits the fan.
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Originally posted by Gunslinger
1. There was only ONE major interstate road leading to NO and it was flooded halfway through the city.
Which is why helos may have been needed. But...flood waters were higher on Thursday than they were on Tuesday. Thursday the bus convoys started, so there must have been a passable route on Tuesday.
Originally posted by Gunslinger
2. Supplies could not be pre-positioned in mississippi because MS took a direct hit and they would have (and were in some cases) been whiped out.
Which is why you pre-position them in areas outside the strike cone...like Baumont, Tx for NOLA and Tallahassee, FL for Biloxi.
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Originally posted by Yeager
The feds will get there, a week later....Bush or Gore, dont matter.
Oddly, that is not the way it panned out when the previous President Bush was in charge durning the aftermath of Hurricane Andrew. The Army was in Miami just 2 days after the storm.
But I agree that poor leadership is not an impeachable offence.
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Prepare for the worst guys :(
Sunday, September 04, 2005
PHOTOS VIDEO PHOTO ESSAYS
Leavitt said he couldn't provide a precise number on the impact of the devastation, but when asked if it was in the thousands, he said, "I think it's evident it's in the thousands."
"It's clear to me that this has been sickeningly difficult, and profoundly tragic circumstance," Leavitt said.
Earlier in the day, Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff (search) had declined to estimate the death toll, but conceded that an untold number of people could have perished in swamped homes and temporary shelters where many went for days without food or water.
"I think we need to prepare the country for what's coming," Chertoff said. "What's going to happen when we de-water and remove the water from New Orleans is we're going to uncover people who died, maybe hiding in houses, got caught by the flood, people whose remains are going to be found in the streets. ... It is going to be about as ugly of a scene as I think you can imagine."
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The easiest target is the highest in command in a situation like this, but it is not necessarily or even actually the position to blame. FEMA has been blasted with criticism by senior members of congress since the early 90's. "The most bureaucratical bunch of prettythangholes I've ever had to deal with" is pretty close to the quote I remember from 1989 from a senior senator.
There is a need to blame someone. It makes those that are suffering feel better. The blame rests on the entire nation. Pick your natural catostrophy, be it flood, famine, earthquake, hurricane, tornado, drought or locust. The situation as it is now has shown the charity of the nation and the world. There can be no reasonable expectation of government to protect us from, or have prescience of a natural disaster of this scale.
The blame for the destruction is on Katrina. The blame for the suffering is on Katrina. The blame for the slow reaction time is on a fat, bloated bureaucracy of a government that the people that are blaming the government for their suffering want to increase.
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More buses....
(http://home.mchsi.com/%7Eidkfa/bus1.jpg)
Edit: are these buses or trailers? I can't tell
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(http://tinypic.com/ddc2df)
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(http://utools.com/DomeBuses.jpg)
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(http://rayfelitto3.com/busses.gif)
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If the US Coast Guard had busses, theyd've droven them through all the sludge.
US Coast Guard rocks!!
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I have to ask myself if I were the gov or mayor and hundreds of thousands of lives were my responsibility in case of disaster, what would I have done?
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Originally posted by MrCoffee
I have to ask myself if I were the gov or mayor and hundreds of thousands of lives were my responsibility in case of disaster, what would I have done?
(http://www.nightingaleinn.com/images/titanic.jpg)
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I don't mean to be harsh or unfeeling or 'mean'. But I saw that storm Saturday evening. It was enough of a threat for me to leave if I was in it's path. Based on the reports that it was a well known fact what could and would happen in New Orleans if a major hurricane hit there, if 'you' lived there, what would you do. Saturday night, not Sunday afternoon. Was Greyhound still running? Was it over capacity? I don't know. But I tend to think that there are a lot of people that could have hauled bellybutton that didnt'.
I'm not saying they don't deserve any and all help we can give, I'm just wondering what they were thinking.
Notice the "could have". I know there were many that had no choice.
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How long does it take to provision and launch a troop transport?
PS: Well said Hang.
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On the other hand...how long does it take to clear a highway of 60 miles of storm debris so traffic an move on it?
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LA Gov is a democrat
NO mayor is a democrat
the majority of those "left behind" are democrats
why is this a Republican's fault?
some should tell JJ and the like to check voter registration...
if Katrina hadn't turned at the last second, dropped from a CAT5 to a CAT4 storm, this would be a body recovery not a rescue/transport
it ain't the feds fault the local yokals screwed the pooch on this one...hopefully the voting populous are smart enough to see that
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Originally posted by Hangtime
(http://www.nightingaleinn.com/images/titanic.jpg)
(http://www.geocities.com/s0da72/images/cap012.jpg)
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(http://www.geocities.com/s0da72/images/dis.jpg)
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(http://www.geocities.com/s0da72/images/dis2.jpg)
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For those of you thinking that it might possibly be Bush's fault, I ask you to look up an Ammendment Number 10 of the United States of America Constitution.
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(http://www.geocities.com/s0da72/images/dis3.jpg)
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Originally posted by soda72
I can't beleive this. I guess rats really do abandon a sinking ship...
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/09/04/national/nationalspecial/04police.html?ei=5090&en=8bf8550c348bbc33&ex=1283486400&partner=rssuserland&emc=rss&pagewanted=print (http://www.nytimes.com/2005/09/04/national/nationalspecial/04police.html?ei=5090&en=8bf8550c348bbc33&ex=1283486400&partner=rssuserland&emc=rss&pagewanted=print)
http://www.armytimes.com/story.php?f=1-292925-1077495.php (http://www.armytimes.com/story.php?f=1-292925-1077495.php)
You need to remember that about half of those Policemen haven't been heard from. I'm sure some left. But others are just missing.
People are people. Cops aren't superhuman. Though they are paid so much money that I'm sure they have no hesitation about leaving their families to the wolves to go stop others from killing, looting, raping, etc.
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Originally posted by SkyWolf
You need to remember that about half of those Policemen haven't been heard from. I'm sure some left. But others are just missing.
People are people. Cops aren't superhuman. Though they are paid so much money that I'm sure they have no hesitation about leaving their families to the wolves to go stop others from killing, looting, raping, etc.
I'm sure thousands of families who have lost loved ones will understand, that the police officers families are more important. Police officers usually take an oath to protect and serve the public. This oath does not include exception clauses. This goes for the Mayor, the governor, and the President of the United States. For the officers who were brave enough to stay I you.. For the ones who purposely abadoned their post I hope you burn in Hell...
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Originally posted by Lazerus
I don't mean to be harsh or unfeeling or 'mean'. But I saw that storm Saturday evening. It was enough of a threat for me to leave if I was in it's path. Based on the reports that it was a well known fact what could and would happen in New Orleans if a major hurricane hit there, if 'you' lived there, what would you do. Saturday night, not Sunday afternoon. Was Greyhound still running? Was it over capacity? I don't know. But I tend to think that there are a lot of people that could have hauled bellybutton that didnt'.
I'm not saying they don't deserve any and all help we can give, I'm just wondering what they were thinking.
Notice the "could have". I know there were many that had no choice.
Living in a hurricane zone I can tell you there have been a number of times when we were on hurricane watch (i.e. storms out there) and I've gone to the store and the checkout clerk was totally unaware that there was a storm out there. A lot of folks just don't watch any news or weather. Some of these people have to be informed in person.
I can tell you with absolute certainty that the situation in N.O., LA would NEVER have happened in Florida.
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I believe they tried to get people on busses at the Superdome to ship them to Houston and had to stop several times because of the idiots firing shots at the relief efforts.
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Another big lesson here, if your not stashing food and water and dont have some defenses for an emergency, and you expect the feds to save you......you have a terribly flawed expectation.
Nice I love that quote... everybody thinks its the governments job to save them, when in reality they should have lookin out for themselves and there family's... heck there just pumping the water out today and theres still thousands of people that are refusing to leave... Its there own faults not the gov's... Look at California, they have basically earthquake proofed everything, made the buildings so they can sway... Every 5-10 years a really big hurricane comes through the gulf, this isn't anything new, nothing unexpected... Look what happened on the Mississippi a few years back when it rose over the banks... in short DON'T LIVE THERE. its just so mid boggling to me how people don't think about stuff like that. heck I live in north TX and when I was looking to buy a house that was 1 of the 1st things I looked at, buying a house that would not get flood damaged. All I see this storm as is a way of population control, gets rid of all the ignorant people who think they can live through that, did you see where they found like 100 people dead and tied together with a rope, common now, who's brite idea was that. The problem in New Orleans is that the party doesn't stop long enough to think ahead, they probably didn't even know a storm was coming... Dallas TX took in a bunch of refugees and today they are actually sending these refugees kids to Dallas schools, they say that 3/4 of the kids can't even read and write, that they don't know basic language skills or even simple math... and this is Dallas schools lol not the best in the world
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jeezuzs.. where to start?
Califonia is NOT 'earthquake proofed', the only thing the worlds geologists disagree on is WHEN that state plops into the pacific.. not IF.
Yer a Texas man.. checked in with Galveston's emergency plan for a class 3 hurricane lately? That city will dissapear, for the SECOND time if another strikes.. again, not IF.. just WHEN.
The entire Gulf coast, the entire eastern seaboard and every city on it is a disaster waiting to happen...
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Then, there's blizzards.. Tornado's.. oh, cripes, everybody, EVERWHERE is at risk from a natural disaster.. dam failures, spring rains, excessive snow melt.. there is NO 'safe' place!!!![/b]
The best smartest thing you can do.. every citizen should do, is develop a pair (a 'stay put' and a 'go' plan) of reaction plans, get together a 'stay-put' kit and a 'go-kit', rehearse the family on what the plans are, arrange communications and rendesvous points and update 'em every year or so.
And for cripes sake, if yer waiting for the government (local, state or federal) to save yer sorry butts after the fact you've failed the New Orleans National Object Lesson.
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I don't see how someone would think the gov would respond "quickly" to anything even on its best day, when it takes at least half a day to get a drivers license
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Originally posted by Eagler
I don't see how someone would think the gov would respond "quickly" to anything even on its best day, when it takes at least half a day to get a drivers license
In Texas they give you a temporary paper license and you have to wait for them to send the actual license by mail... it takes weeks....
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Originally posted by soda72
In Texas they give you a temporary paper license and you have to wait for them to send the actual license by mail... it takes weeks....
like soda said here you get a paper permit that lasts 60days. I still have mine from when I got it a few months ago and my drivers license came 2 1/2 weeks later.
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http://www.nydailynews.com/front/story/344065p-293598c.html (http://www.nydailynews.com/front/story/344065p-293598c.html)
And how's this for preparation? Cops were told not to work on the day Katrina hit, one officer told The New York Times, but "to come in the next day, to save money on their budget."
soda's prediction:
1.) Brown is fired, with Bush discraced for appointing him...
2.) Kathleen Babineaux Blanco is scorned but wins another term as governor....
3.) Delcared a Hero, Ray Nagin becomes a senator of Louisiana, promising he won't let the federal government get in the way again...
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Originally posted by soda72
For the ones who purposely abadoned their post I hope you burn in Hell...
That's nice. Come talk to me after you've lived a few years. It must be nice to have only backs and whites and no grays.
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Originally posted by Iceman24
Dallas TX took in a bunch of refugees and today they are actually sending these refugees kids to Dallas schools, they say that 3/4 of the kids can't even read and write, that they don't know basic language skills or even simple math... and this is Dallas schools lol not the best in the world
According to Jesse Jackson calling them refugees is racist.
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Originally posted by Hangtime
jeezuzs.. where to start?
Califonia is NOT 'earthquake proofed', the only thing the worlds geologists disagree on is WHEN that state plops into the pacific.. not IF.
Wrong.
The Pacific Plate is moving northwest along a transform boundary with the North American Plate.
California isn't going to sink, EVER.
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Originally posted by soda72
http://www.nydailynews.com/front/story/344065p-293598c.html (http://www.nydailynews.com/front/story/344065p-293598c.html)
soda's prediction:
1.) Brown is fired, with Bush discraced for appointing him...
2.) Kathleen Babineaux Blanco is scorned but wins another term as governor....
3.) Delcared a Hero, Ray Nagin becomes a senator of Louisiana, promising he won't let the federal government get in the way again...
:rofl :rofl :rofl It wouldn't be so funny if it were not true!
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Originally posted by SkyWolf
That's nice. Come talk to me after you've lived a few years. It must be nice to have only backs and whites and no grays.
There is no grey area for police officers who simply turned in their badge, leaving their fellow officers high
and dry in a time of need, putting more strain on an already strained force. It would not be a large
leap, to say that this additional strain may have resulted in further needless loss of life. My words
may seem harsh, but it's probably much more kinder than what their fellow officers think of them. My
only hope would be that this is a bad rummor that has started, but I have yet to hear otherwise.
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Human beings have a breaking point Soda. Too bad you weren't there to lighten their load.
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I'm not sure I can blame the officers who decided to save there own families first.