Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Karnak on December 13, 2000, 09:51:00 PM
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I offer my congratulations the those of us in the AH community that supported Governor, now President-Elect, George W Bush.
I offer my congratulations to President-Elect George W. Bush and I hope that he has a successful administration as President of the United States.
I thank Vice-President Al Gore for fighting so hard on behalf of me and the more than 50 million Americans who voted for him. In doing so I feel that he was worthy of those votes just as President-Elect George W Bush proved himself worthy of the votes of his supporters by fighting hard all the way to the finish. I believe that any candidate that was not willing to fight for his or her supporters in the circumstances of the last 5 weeks would not fight hard enough for the issues important to the United States and her citizens.
I believe that Vice-President Al Gore's and President-Elect George W Bush's speeches tonight are a good first step towards moving forward with the business of this great country.
I am posting this because I know how hard some of the feelings expressed on this board have been and how strong much of the language has been, some of both from me. I wanted to let you guys know that there are no hard feelings towards any of you.
<S> to you all!
Isn't in great that we live in a country were we can have such a bitterly fought election and nobody rolled out the tanks or put soldiers in the streets?
No, I'm not smoking anything. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
See you guys back here in four years! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
Sisu
-Karnak
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Oh yeah, one more thing:
Non-Americans butt out of this thread. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif) This is for us Yanks.
Sisu
-Karnak
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Thanks Karnak!
Having lived with President-Elect Bush as my Govenor for the last 6 years, I can say that he is a uniter and not a devider. I honestly believe he is a good person to bring us together as a nation.
S!
Udie
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<S> Karnak (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
You are a real American in my eyes.I would have tried for the same attitude had Gore prevailed...
<S>
Gunthr
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Yep, <S> Karnak. The one encouraging thing I got from both speeches was the "for the good of America" common thread, and that's whats important.
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LJK_Raubvogel
LuftJägerKorps (http://www.luftjagerkorps.com)
(http://www.luftjagerkorps.com/images/logo.gif)
[This message has been edited by LJK Raubvogel (edited 12-13-2000).]
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Good post Karnak. To be clear, I'm not a Bush supporter. Not that I do not like him, he seems ok to me, but I just don't know him good enough to embrace him (or more importantly, his future policies) before he even takes the oath.
On the other hand I do know Gore, and he plain just scares the heck out of me. Thus my vote.. anything but Gore.
Although you and I have a fundamental disagreement as to what the government role really is (and I'm pretty sure we'll lock our horns again sooner or later), I do respect your your views, and I commend you for your honest and sincere post. I'd venture that except of the marginal minority of party hacks, no one in this coutry want's to see their views "elected" by the street riots.
P.S. I am frightened by how little our society knows about the Constitution, and how engrained the "mob rules" mentality is.
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Kudos Karnak,
Very well said. And one of the things you mentioned struck me as getting to the very heart, the core, the *essence* of...
Oh, this thread is for Americans only?
phhhht.
<finger>
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Never mind Nash..hes yur typical Canadian.....crap.... so am I, Never mind.
you may now resume your previously schedualed topic.
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No way I'll stay out of this thread.
Just wanted you to know that we have freedom of speech to.
Now, yank imperialists, you may go away.
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif).
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StSanta
9./JG 54 "Grünherz"
(http://www.geocities.com/nirfurian/stSanta.jpg)
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Karnak,
While your sentiments are noble they may fall on deaf ears for most liberals. The ceaseless court and commission attacks upon Pres.Clinton (and his wife) throughout his term, and upon his administration in general have left a very bitter taste in many Democrats' mouth. And when you add the character attacks upon Gore during the election, the level of anger among liberals is of ember quality right now. It doesn't even matter if liberals supported Gore, or not, they're that mad. With the Senate and House so evenly divided, I would be very very surprised if anything contructive gets done in the next four years. And if Bush should ever step out of line in office, it'll be hell to pay.
While it would be hopeful to see true legislative compromises from both parties in the next four years, the phrase "What comes around, goes around" is probably a more apt indication of things to come.
We Americans are definitely living in interesting times...
[This message has been edited by leonid (edited 12-14-2000).]
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Ya know what? Yeah.
As much as I *want* to take the high road... as much as I *know* that two wrongs don't make a right, and as much as I know the bitterness aint healthy...
When I listen to all of this talk from the Republicans about it now being the time to come together, to heal, to put the bipartisan hostility behind us... It just rings so... so... *convenient*... Like, "Huh??!, have you been asleep for the last decade?".
Hmm... I'm trying to think of an analogy that some of y'all on this board might seem to relate to. Ok how about this. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Ya walk in and find yer wife gettin' raped at knifepoint. So you pull out yer Smith & Wesson Glock Blow the Bastards Away Deluxe (or whatever the *it* weapon happens to be), at which point he looks up at you and says "Hey man, can we uhh... can we forget about this little incident? Let bygones be bygones... Whattya say"?
Hehe, that's pretty morbid, sorry (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) ..it's late and I just watched the most twisted movie...but it will do.
Leonid is right, I reckon.
[This message has been edited by Nash (edited 12-14-2000).]
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Hm, as I understood it the reps still have a small majority in senate? or is it so small and full of "mid wayers" that it's insignificant?
At any rate; good luck Bush and good fight Gore.
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StSanta
9./JG 54 "Grünherz"
(http://www.geocities.com/nirfurian/stSanta.jpg)
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I've not posted on any of these threads concerning the election simply because I do not feel I have sufficient knowledge of the issues but have spent a lot of time reading what has been posted.
I was impressed by Al Gore's speech. It appeared to be genuine. I was impressed by Mr. Bush's speech. I felt it was genuine. Both used carefully selected wording and made promises I hope will be fulfiled. I normally vote a Republican ticket so I am happy with the outcome.
George Bush has a history of working well across party lines that I sincerly hope carries over into his presidency. I feel that is what is needed to do us, the people, the most good.
Nice post Karnak.
(http://home.att.net/~lmluper/P47.jpg)
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<S> Karnak
Eagler
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Originally posted by StSanta:
Hm, as I understood it the reps still have a small majority in senate? or is it so small and full of "mid wayers" that it's insignificant?
At any rate; good luck Bush and good fight Gore.
The senate is 50/50 w/ Vice-President-Elect (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif) Cheney being the tie braking vote, which gives the Republicans majority control. But that doesn't mean that much. The Dems will still have lots of power, they just won't be setting the agenda.
udie
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IMHO quite a few people are gonna be surprised at Bush. Most of the country just dont understand who Bob Bullock(sp) really was and what a feat it was for Bush to win him over. Bullock was Texas, Texas was Bullock, nothing got done without going through him. Bush won him over. It still blows my mind.
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Dnil---Skyhawk until I get Dnil back :)
Maj. 900th Bloody Jaguars
Part time aircraft restorer. www.kingwoodcable.com/jheuer (http://www.kingwoodcable.com/jheuer)
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Nash, Leonid-
Just what, short of Bush conceding now, will make you happy?
I don't know what else anyone can say. I agree that words are words, and only action is truly important, but where do you start?
Nash, your rape analogy is incendiary to say the least.
I know that Dems are angry, as are many Reps even still. It is bound to be that way any way it went.
I will join you in criticism of Bush if he starts doing stupid or immoral things. I will be just as outraged as I have been in the past. I might even vote for Kerry in 2004 if Bush doesn't do a good job. One thing is for sure, we have to wait now and see what shakes out before we start the rancor- or do we?
In the end I guess I'm wondering what it is you want the Reps to say? "Screw you libs, we won!"?
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Originally posted by Dnil:
IMHO quite a few people are gonna be surprised at Bush. Most of the country just dont understand who Bob Bullock(sp) really was and what a feat it was for Bush to win him over. Bullock was Texas, Texas was Bullock, nothing got done without going through him. Bush won him over. It still blows my mind.
Your not kidding Dnil. That man was a Democrat through and through. I just about passed out back in 98 when Bullock chose Bush over that Democrat that ran against him. It's ashame he died before the 2000 election. The part you don't hear in the media is that at least 75% if not more of the Democrat congressmen in Tx love President-Elect Bush. If they give him 1/2 a chance he will shine. But Tx. doesn't have any "Charlse Rangles", "Jessie Jacksons"
We shall see, hopefuly they won't take Nash's view and say screw him no matter what. That wasn't a personal attack on you Nash, it was a serious worry of mine....
Udie
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U
Originally posted by Udie:
Your not kidding Dnil. That man was a Democrat through and through. I just about passed out back in 98 when Bullock chose Bush over that Democrat that ran against him. It's ashame he died before the 2000 election. The part you don't hear in the media is that at least 75% if not more of the Democrat congressmen in Tx love President-Elect Bush. If they give him 1/2 a chance he will shine. But Tx. doesn't have any "Charlse Rangles", "Jessie Jacksons"
We shall see, hopefuly they won't take Nash's view and say screw him no matter what. That wasn't a personal attack on you Nash, it was a serious worry of mine....
Udie
BTW nash,
Do you think Clintons legal troubles are gone? They are just begining. He won't have the executive branch to hide behind much longer. He will be disbarred and most likely indicted for purgery, probobly within the next 6 months. Do you think he'd accept a pardon from PRESIDENT Bush? (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
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The encouraging thing about the Senate being so close is that there is already a centrist bi-partisan group that both parties will have to deal with if they want to get anything through.
It's promising to see these who are normally too moderate to hold power in their own party become perhaps the most powerful group of senators.
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Hehe yeah Kieren, I know... that analogy was in poor taste... said so when I wrote it. For some reason I wanted to you use the subject of guns, (seems people can relate to that), and I've heard almost that exact same analogy several times in those debates. But yah, I coulda picked a thousand different subjects to base it on, and I really shoulda.
Anyways, back to the subject at hand. I'm not saying that a backlash will happen, nor should it, or even that Bush will be a failure as a President. It's just that... how many times can one listen to a sitting President being completely lambasted, over and over and over...
Partisanship is a fact of life in US politics. Yes. But it's many people's strong belief that the extent of this attack on Clinton was completely, *completely*, over the top. Unprecedented and damaging. I said before that it was akin to poison... and as a result, we drank from that well. Hell, we lapped it up.
Thus, we've lost respect in the Presidency itself, we hurl insults just as a first instinct, we are cynical to the point where it is laughable to even hold the opinion that some of these politicians actually might have the best interests of their country at heart, that there are some out there who actually just try to do the right thing.
Maybe that's a good thing though? Maybe we're now uhm... more informed, less naive. Perhaps it's better to be guarded and distrustful, lest we get disappointed again. A nation that yeah, may be bitter, but at least now not ignorant!
I don't think so. It was hurtful what they did. It terms of damage to a nation's soul, it ranks up there with Vietnam.
So now the shoe is on the other foot. The Republicans are in office. It is time for the nation to come together, to put our differences behind us, to move forward and do the people's business. A time for hope and renewal. Well that's all very fine and good.
The problem here, is that not *only* are some people gnashing their teeth at a chance to get Vengence for the past 8 years... But we've now got a nation so bitterly divided, so raised on this hateful rhetoric, that it is impossible to think that one can simply reach over and turn off the valve. It's like when the Sex Pistols came out and attacked the Queen of England, or that very fist time you swore at your girlfriend. Something shifts; changes. And it's impossible to go back.
I know you disagree, but what the Republicans did in the 90's was *far* more damaging than anything Clinton could have done. It wasn't Bush's fault - he just inherited this house... but coupled with the fact that many people are not even recognizing this man's legitimacy as even *being* the President, he's gonna need all the luck he can get.
[This message has been edited by Nash (edited 12-14-2000).]
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Oh, and Udie,
We shall see, hopefuly they won't take Nash's view and say screw him no matter what. That wasn't a personal attack on you Nash, it was a serious worry of mine....
Nah nah, I don't take that as a personal attack. It is a valid worry. Don't misunderstand me though, I'm not advocating a "screw him no matter what" attitude. I'm just saying that it may be pretty much innevitable.
Look at all the hostility spewed forth on this board alone about the soon to be previous administration. Much of it uninformed (but that was always beside the point, wasn't it?), much of it so clouded by raw hatred as to be nonsensical. Irresponsible of you as citizens to a large extent... in essence bowing down to those who would have you submit to the basest visceral reactions they so needed you to believe, in order to fuel their retake of the Presidency. They called upon, and received, the worst in you. They created a monster. A horrible miscalculation - as this monster aint a Republican or a Democrat.
So now you call for all of us to just bury the hatchet. But yer gonna need a jackhammer to pull it out of our backs before that would be possible.
[This message has been edited by Nash (edited 12-14-2000).]
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Kieren,
It's not even about making anybody happy at this point. That was not even being considered, frankly. I'm just stating what the general consensus of democrat/liberals is, nothing more. And like Udie says, when republican-backed lawyers start laying into Clinton after his term is over, democrats will see that, and just add that to the list. Sorry, Kieren, it's just the way things are in our country these days - tit for tat. And I agree, pretty sad.
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Tit-for-tat?
Not yet.... So far it's just been tit tit tit jab tit tit poke tit tit jab tit.
They all just now *fearing* the tat.
Sad? Yeah... but just what exactly did y'all expect?
And yah Leonid, yer bang-on about this Clinton disbarment thing. If the republicans actually allow/support/initiate this, all bets are just off. Funny thing is, I would not put it past them.
[This message has been edited by Nash (edited 12-15-2000).]
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For those that are "them-against-us"...
There are those that voted Carter, thought Ollie should have gone to jail, didn't believe Reagan's amnesia for a second, and were pretty much outraged by the whole behind-the-back business when it happened. And they aren't just Democrats.
No way what I say here will make any difference, but this is the way I think; a few people are still mad about the way the Republicans went after Clinton. I think the fair-minded of them realize there was something to the cases, some of it was witchhunt. Then there are those people before them that were upset about the way the other side went after Reagan. And so it goes, farther and farther back into American presidential history.
Bush has a hard way to go, no doubt. I doubt there is any more anger than there was back in '92. I remember reading all the things leading up to the election and I knew it was going to be a rough go.
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No matter what the Republicans do, it will be wrong per the democrats and their mouth piece, the media. So I say fry Bill's bellybutton and take the heat. You can't keep letting criminals off the hook.
He played, now he's gotta pay....
Eagler
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Actually Keiren, in all the situations you described... I always hated that partisanship was the determining factor in pursuing answers... never really a sense of right/wrong. When partisanship replaces the law or morality, I just shake my head and wonder.
AKDejaVu
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phhhht.
Ya cannot compare Iran-Contra to the 8 years of the Republican funded Starr Inquisition.
Uhn-uh.
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The ceaseless court and commission attacks upon Pres.Clinton (and his wife) throughout his term, and upon his administration in general have left a very bitter taste in many Democrats' mouth. And when you add the character attacks upon Gore during the election, the level of anger among liberals is of ember quality right now.
I`m not a liberal,I`m registered as a Democrat but don`t vote the "party line",but I will say I`m very pissed off about the things mentioned in this paragraph. Personally I hope the dems go after the Bush cretin tooth and nail!
Maybe Kenneth Starr has some free time in his schedule?
PS: partisan politics are for the brain dead "followers" of the world,God gave you a mind-USE IT!
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Well said, Karnak.
As for those of you who seem to delight in promising that the Democrats will now be just as aggressive and vindictive as the Republicans were.........
.......I'll be standing with you if this President perjures himself. I'll be standing with you if this administration allows US missile guidance technology to be sold/given to people who threaten to "Nuke LA" in exchange for contributions to a US political party.
I'll be standing with you....where were you when I stood against it before? (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)