Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: blur on December 14, 2000, 10:00:00 AM
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Okay now that Dad's supreme court connections came through for him and those glorified ambulance chasers gave junior the election. What can we expect from this half-wit? (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
Increase in federal executions?
Another military build-up with an increase in world tension?
More religious right influence on government?
Don't get me wrong, I'm not a Gore supporter. I think Gore is a sneaky two-faced lying snake. I think Bush would be one too if he wasn't retarded. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
For God's sake I'm scared, someone give me a hug! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/eek.gif)
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Well, blur, sounds like you have a big problem living in this horrible place! I hear there are some great countries to live in! Iraq, Iran, China, ect. I hear the governments in those places really take care of their citizens. And they dont have any of this piddley election stuff for you to worry about either! I think you would be much more comfortable. :P Hell, I'll come help ya pack!
Ahhh yes, and about those "glorified ambulance chasers". What the hell does that mean? I guess Gore had "real" attorneys? What a ridiculous thing to say. I'll not only help you pack, I'll buy your plane ticket.
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Tread
The Screamin Meanies
[This message has been edited by treadhead1 (edited 12-14-2000).]
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I heard something about the Christian right wing part of the Republican party. How much influence do they have?
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Don't get me wrong, I'm not a Gore supporter. I think Gore is a sneaky two-faced lying snake. I think Bush would be one too if he wasn't retarded.
Heh!
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imho it depends on how right-wing you are talking. Extreme right and even extreme left wings have little real influence imho.
Pop Quiz time: Which Presidential canditate said the following sentences last night?:
"....and may God bless his stewardship of this country."
""Not under man but under God and law.""
"...in one of God's unforeseen paths"
"... with faith in God..."
"God bless America"...
"I ask for you to pray for this great nation. I ask for your prayers for leaders from both parties. I thank you for your prayers for me and my family, and I ask you to pray for Vice President Gore and his family."
"I have faith that with God's help..."
"...God bless America."
Answer: first 5, Mr. Gore. Last 3, Mr. Bush. Both men appear to have a deep personal relationship with God.
Fury
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I guess world has already seen what happens if you mix religion and politic. Better keep those two separated....
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Blur,
Here is a virtual knuckle rap across
your virtual skull:
thump thump thump thump.....
Feel better?
Yeager (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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As our discussion seemingly touches on religion, I thought that perhaps those of you who are not so serious about it might want to take a look at the following site: http://www.hedning.no/hedning/arkiv/cookies/ (http://www.hedning.no/hedning/arkiv/cookies/) .
The text is very long and you might want to press your browser's stop button and read just a part of it. IMO the content is worth the wait though (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif).
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SageFIN
"I think I´ll believe in Gosh instead of God. If you don´t
believe in Gosh too, you´ll be darned to heck."
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Originally posted by blur:
What can we expect ...
Increase in federal executions?
Another military build-up with an increase in world tension?
More religious right influence on government?
I hope I see more of all the above three with the exception of increase world tension.
I feel the tension ie Palestine, China, etc will happen no matter what we do with our military. Best to be prepared for the worst and hope for the best.
As for more religious influence, I can only hope. It is what the country is based on. Not the self serving crap spouted for the past 8 years.
I'm also for decreasing the prison population of those sentenced to die for the hideous crimes they committed.
Warm up old Sparky!
What I think we won't see:
1. Hummers in the Whitehouse
2. Movie stars in Lincoln's bedroom
3. Additional outrageous social programs benefiting a select few
4. A pres spending millions of tax dollars while touring the world with family and friends.
5. Sending our military to play global cop/media distraction.
Eagler
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Strictly the person, Gore is far more religous than Bush. Honestly to a scary degree (what would Jesus do in this situation he claims to ask in every decision. Would Jesus try to intimidate Palm Beach into more liberal hand counting methods? <cough> ).
In terms of the party itself, yeah, the republicans have an ugly self-rightous group waiting in the wings. Usually we can keep them quiet, personally I think they're responsible for the cycle of republicans coming to power then losing it.
As long as they are not in power, or barely are (as now), there is enough pressure towards the center to keep them in place. Only when republicans enjoy a large majority do they tend to lose sight of what got them there and drift right, in doing so losing the moderate people (like me) that put them there. Maybe someday they'll learn, but having watched it over the years I doubt it.
Bush made it fairly obvious he wanted a smaller, more efficient military, and as for executions I honestly don't care, not that he would have much influence anyway.
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Just saw an article in the paper. timothy mcveigh just withdrew all his appeals about his death sentence for the Oklahoma bombing. All except one. He left open the federal clemency request. Given the track record of the lame duck with pardoning terrorists, he might just have a chance in the next few weeks. I don't think he has one after the inauguration though.
Mav
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Originally posted by Fatty:
(what would Jesus do in this situation he claims to ask in every decision. Would Jesus try to intimidate Palm Beach into more liberal hand counting methods? <cough> ).
LMAO!!! Thanks Fatty, I needed that (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
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LJK_Raubvogel
LuftJägerKorps (http://www.luftjagerkorps.com)
(http://www.luftjagerkorps.com/images/logo.gif)
[This message has been edited by LJK Raubvogel (edited 12-14-2000).]
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Don't worry guys. All that religious talk is just a tradition. Same as a message on a dollar bill.
As for the executions, a legislature makes laws and judiciary sentences people according to those laws.
Where do you see executive branch (governor, president) here? Right. Nowhere. That was the original intend of separating the three branches!
A governor or a president can pardon sentenced a criminal in extraordinaty cases but doing that as a matter of policy would be very presumpious on the executive's part.
After all all those laws were created in a lengthy process by many qualified duly elected people. Then the trial is conducted in a lengthy process by other qualified duly appointed people.
What qualifications would an unrelated person have to overturn that decision? What would our laws and courts be worth if that happen often?
Still, the Constitution allows him to interfere but only in favor of a criminal.
So do not worry, when Bush is a President, he will not be able to sentence anyone to death. the worst he can do is not to interfere.
Also, he cannot make any laws regarding the subject. He can veto them, but no more then that.
miko
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Originally posted by Dowding:
I heard something about the Christian right wing part of the Republican party. How much influence do they have?
too much dowding....every time i explain i am a republican to someone i immediately disclaim any connection to those freaks.
the repubs are really the more realistic party all in all, choosing logical solutions over feel good short term solutions but thanks to the religious right people keep choosing democrats.
they are afraid that if they put a republican in office the rep will be praying at them all the time and asking them to pray for them and praying near them, under them, about them and through them... - it gets ridiculous and a lot of the time they are right.
it is changing though - there are more centrists republicans like yours truly poppin up every day -
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One thing that the US (in theory) has over Denmark is separation of church and state.
I agree with freethinking organisations when they say that far too much focus in the election is on the religious beliefs of the candidates.
Religion and politics have been intertwined for hundreds of years in Europe, but I dare say that even though we have a state religion, religion plays a much smaller role in politics here.
About the only one who says "god save Denmark" is our queen and she says it coz she gotta. Slimey.
So, I hope for none of the three. Federal executions going up means either changed rules or more qualify for it, which is bad. Military buildup that results in tension is even worse. Religious right influence is annoying, but the American people won't stand having religious nutters remove some of their freedoms. Not in the long run.
Chtulhu should be your god.
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StSanta
9./JG 54 "Grünherz"
(http://www.geocities.com/nirfurian/stSanta.jpg)
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Originally posted by Dowding:
I heard something about the Christian right wing part of the Republican party. How much influence do they have?
A god-awful lot, Dowding (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
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That's bad news, mrfish, Leonid. I dislike religious fundamentalists intensely; there seemed to be loads at university, and after a while I just couldn't stomach their attitudes any more. They are a danger to democracy and free-thinking.
They were Christian, but I expect those of other Religions are equally obnoxious.
I want to live in a secular state, with secular laws decided by people who have logically reasoned the issues through. I think Britain is largely secular these days; we have a pretty diverse ethnic mix (almost as much as the States).
[This message has been edited by Dowding (edited 12-15-2000).]
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I dislike religious fundamentalists intensely; there seemed to be loads at university, and after a while I just couldn't stomach their attitudes any more. They are a danger to democracy and free-thinking.
Amen to that.
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jochen
Kids today! Why can't they fetishize Fascist military hardware like normal people?
Ladysmith wants you forthwith to come to her relief
Burn your briefs you leave for France tonight
Carefully cut the straps of the booby-traps and set the captives free
But don't shoot 'til you see her big blue eyes
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Originally posted by Dowding:
I want to live in a secular state, with secular laws decided by people who have logically reasoned the issues through.
logic - you're funny dowding - my eyes are watering from the chuckles - people are addicted to sensations here - if it doesn't produce instant gratification it isnt worth bothering with.
if a politician sz something about the future of our power supply, or whether small business should be taxed on gross revenues or payroll people yawn and go chase a ball of yarn or something shiney - but if he talks about the impending apocalypse that will be brought on by daytime talk shows, people will be brawling in the streets because it is somehing they can understand -
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The "religious right" has just about as much effect on everyday American life as the "loony left" does.
That is to say, not much at all. Both can be amusing and somewhat entertaining but neither end of the bell curve actually changes anything. Of course, without those ends of the graph, I guess it would be hard to define the huge "middle" that actually makes up 90% of our society.
Much sound and fury, signifying nothing.
[This message has been edited by Toad (edited 12-16-2000).]
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Balance
Without extremes on BOTH ends the CG in the middle would be hard if not impossible to find. If I had me choice, I'd pick a "religious" right leader over a "moral-less" left one anyday. One would just take the country back 100 years, the other would destroy it..
Eagler
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Liberalism is a pagan religion!! It promotes odd human behavior as normal and celebrates death as a right!! It is an easy religion to be sucked into as you only have to give up any rational thought and let others decide how and what you are to think(political correctness). It's aim is to make you dependent(advocates of big intrusive federal government). It's aim is to undermine the Constitution(denial of the 2nd). It's aim is to destroy capitalism(tobacco and MS come to mind). It's aim is to control every facet of your life. It's aim is to quiet all those who disagree with their religion(campaign finance reform)!!
Liberalism as a religion is something that is to be held in check.
[This message has been edited by 1776 (edited 12-17-2000).]
[This message has been edited by 1776 (edited 12-17-2000).]
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Religion is man made boys.
Gods intent has nothing to do with religion...in fact, Jesus hated the Pharisees, who at the time were the most religious sector of folks walking about...they had the power and abused it for selfish gain.
Personally, those with true faith have very little to say...Jesus put it best..."You will know them by their fruit". (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Ltr
Ice
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Amen Ice. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Roger that Ice
Organized religion is one thing, religious behavior or morals are another. This country is based on religious morals, ie "In God We Trust". It is not based on a particular faith but the common ground of all faiths. The left likes to blur the difference so as to have one turn away from moral behavior altogether. Who the hell can believe in a Jim Baker or Tammy Faye? But most can believe in a Divine Source as long as it is not chased from all thought or circumstance. The government was created on principles now thought to conflict as a "church and state" issue. "Church" as I interpreted it would be a particular faith, not the believe in the Divine. But as soon as they can create that vacuum, the sooner it can be filled with selfishness, self centered thoughts and motivations ... another step towards a godless society.
Eagler
[This message has been edited by Eagler (edited 12-17-2000).]
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Exactly, Ice.
The finely tapered ends of the bell curve just don't represent much of anything.
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It was my impression that some of the founding fathers were freethinkers, and that the "in god we trust" bit was added to your coins at a much later stage (as in 1900's).
Bush's father claimed atheists weren't real Americans because "it's one nation under god".
Ah yes, religious tolerance. While Marx was wrong about a great deal of things, he hit some dead on.
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StSanta
9./JG 54 "Grünherz"
(http://www.geocities.com/nirfurian/stSanta.jpg)
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Atheists have much bigger problems than not being real Americans. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/frown.gif)
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Originally posted by StSanta:
Ah yes, religious tolerance. While Marx was wrong about a great deal of things, he hit some dead on.
So it's intolerant and bad to say negative things about atheists?
At least we don't go around shooting people because they believe in the wrong religion. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Tolerance of various religious beliefs (or lack of same (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif) ) is one of the cornerstone beliefs of this country.
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Funked does that mean Atheist are NOT Americans?
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No.
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Originally posted by Mighty1:
Funked does that mean Atheist are NOT Americans?
they are semi-Americans, they are allowed to live in NY or CA only (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Eagler
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Have you ever noticed how adults will listen to a three year old tell about his invisible friend and think it's cute?
And then an adult will tell about his personal relationship with Jesus and no one laughs? (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
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i do , loud and often
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He said "adults", Tawrd.
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I think people like god a little too much,
If you read history You will find that GOD is the leading casue of death. Millions and Millions of amazinhunks killing eachother because told them it was a good idea.
"Do you believe in God?" "NO!" BLAM!!!
"Do you believe in god?" "Yes!" " oh...do you believe in MY GOD? "no" BLAM!!
"MY god has a bigger dick than your god!"
It has been this way for as long as time, and the one thing everyone should thank god for is keeping overpopulation under control.
Religion is wierd and very goofy most of the time, even in the mainstreem ones, you always see athaletes thanking god when they win, however when they lose you dont see them shooting the finger straight up. If you are gonna give god credit for everything good that happens you have to admit that god kicks ya in the bellybutton from time to time aswell.
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Thats just ppl finding an excuse/motivation to kill other ppl.
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Anyone that is not an agnostic is not a real Canadian.
Well my goverment said that anyway. But Im not sure if its true or not.
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Toad: I believe it sets a BAD example when a president of a country excludes his fellow citizens from being citizens (even in thought) when he's a president of a country that has a separation between the state and religions.
Imagine if he had said "no, Christians aren't real Americans because it is one nation under Chtulhu". One would think "Christian persecution" Roman style.
Not only atheists are not to be considered Americans; all non monotheistic religions are suddenly invalid. If such a statement does not worry any American who believes in the American principles then something is wrong.
Btw (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif), just what does atheist have to worry about (other than normal stuff)? We live, die and are recycled into the universe. Pretty cool if you ask me. Too bad the parts that used to be me can't say to parts that used to be a rock "yeah, back in the late 1900's, I was alive baby" and impress the hell outta it (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif).
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StSanta
9./JG 54 "Grünherz"
(http://www.geocities.com/nirfurian/stSanta.jpg)
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"One thing that the US (in theory) has over Denmark is separation of church and state."
Sorry seperation of Church and State in Denmark happened several hundred years ago.
Yes, you could say that Denmark has a state-religion, but that was only because no other religion was exercised in Denmark. With the influx of foreign cultures over the last 30 years, that's slowly changing..it's not too long ago religion-education in schools was changed drasticly to accomodate that.
You used to "Christianity"-classes but that was changed to "Religion"-classes and now teaches about all world-religions.
But yeah..the Queen has to say "Gud bevare Danmark"..otherwise it wouldnt be right :P
Ex-pat
Daff
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Too bad the parts that used to be me can't say to parts that used to be a rock "yeah, back in the late 1900's, I was alive baby" and impress the hell outta it.
I think the ex-rock parts would probably have an even more impressive past. "Before I was a rock, I used to be parts of a big badass dinosaur with lots of sharp teeth and really bad breath" or something like that. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
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Daff, the official religion in Denmark is Evangelical Lutheran I believe. Every Dane is born into the Folkekirken and you have to request to get out of it from, guess what, a state run institute (folkeregisteret if I am not mistaken).
There's a church tax of 1 per cent or so that's deducted from everyone who's a member of the church and an active cooperation between state and church. We even have a church minister. I am not sure what you're referring to but it seems to be a technicality at best. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif).
How's England compared to Denmark? Sort of same system (only FAILED) (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif).
juzz, lol! Excellent point (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
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StSanta
9./JG 54 "Grünherz"
(http://www.geocities.com/nirfurian/stSanta.jpg)
[This message has been edited by StSanta (edited 12-24-2000).]
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bah the church (and I mean the controlling institute of ANY religion) has always been nothing more than the world's first and longest lasting mega-corporation.
too bad the anti-trust laws dont apply to them...
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I think that the automatic inclusion into the church and church tax was more out of practical reasons than anything (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)...you can very easily opt out of both. Was it a state religion, I'd like to claim that you might be able to opt out of the church, but not the tax! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)...but yeah..splitting hairs here (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)...just dont think you can call it a "state-religion", as you arent forced into it and the church has absolutly no power.
(The official religion, perhaps).
I have absolutly no idea of it works here in England (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Daff
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CO, 56th Fighter Group
"This is Yardstick. Follow me"
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The entire tone of this thread bothers me.
Kinda strange that most of the family shots I've seen on Gore have all involved him going into a church, yet GW Bush disturbs you because of religious reasons?
As far as hating the "church" goes... I've never seen the need. There are members of the church I can't stand. But, low and behold, there are also members I love.
Maybe its the "categorize everyone the same" aspect that gets me. Or the "us vs them" aspect. Whatever it is, it smells bad.
AKDejaVu